One Hour One Life Forums

For crying out loud.

This is a game that needs a playerbase to be viable, which means it needs new people to come in and to stick around.  And competent players are the single most important factor in successful lineages and good game play, but all players start out incompetent.  It's therefore an essential task for those of us who have learned to be competent to help create new competent players who will want to keep playing.

Kill or mistreat a new player for being new, and you teach them not to admit they're new or to ask for help when they need it.  You teach them that the game is unwelcoming for new people and that existing players don't want them there.  You teach them that the playerbase is selfish, uncaring, and okay with stabbing innocent people.   Too much of that, and you drive them away before they can get good and contribute, or you turn them into griefers, acting out of frustration or resentment or a sense that it's a game full of selfish uncaring jerks, so why not join in.  And you might not just be teaching that one person that, either.  I've seen quite a few streamers coming in as newbies, playing blind or nearly blind.  In which case, you're also giving anyone watching them and deciding whether to give the game a shot the same impression.  It's bad for the future of the game and all of us who enjoy playing it.

On the other hand, if you show a newbie some kindness, help them learn, give them things to do instead of wandering around bored and frustrated, give them evidence that even though the learning curb is steep, they can learn and contribute -- in short, if you give them a positive early experience -- it will motivate them to stay, to learn more, to feel invested in the game and the towns they spawn into.  And one day they will be the competent, helpful daughter who saves your Eve camp and launches your double-digit lineage.

Your behavior towards newbies is nothing more or less than you helping to create (or, as the case may be, destroy) the players who will be your future children and townspeople.  Which means itt may be the single most important thing you can do in the game.

(This post is dedicated to the daughter I had earlier today who was so new I had to teach her "F for food," but who did an amazingly helpful job bringing basket after basket of food back to me while I got my Eve camp set up.  Sometimes they surprise you.  And whoever that person is, I think they're going to be a real asset if they stick around and learn.)

Reasons why you should not take care of veterans:
1. They always survive often at the expense of others
2. They do not waste food but do not produce it (most of them do not do anything useful)
3. They will kill everyone who plays in a different way  (probably they are the majority of griefers)
4. They are often bad mothers - they throw children to other players or let them die.
5. They are constantly working on projects that are almost impossible to finish (it is more likely that the city will die out)
6. By this they waste only resources.
7. Some are really nervous - they introduce a bad atmosphere (they yell at other players, they want to rule everyone).
This is obviously ironic.
I do not mind new players or old players.
If they are nice to others.
I am disturbed by  rude players and those who try to tyrannize others(and of course those who destroy the game others).
Live and let others live.
And this is just a game, the game should be fun.

I'm not worried about the bad math in your first post.   I do understand what you mean when you say "pip efficiency".   My point is that the value you are placing on it is too high.   Also, you call it "pip efficiency" but I don't think that is the correct term.   What you are really talking about it potential for waste.  Looking at my examples from your previous thread, a single use of green beans can give you up to 3 pips and a single use of turkey broth can give up to 12 pips.   If you eat either food when you almost full, you will get a minimum of one pip.  The rest of the food's pip potential is wasted, because you only had room for one pip.  So turkey broth has a higher potential for pip wastage, because it is more "pip dense" and a bowl of green beans has a lower potential for waste because it is less pip dense.   To use your term, foods with fewer pips per use have a higher "pip efficiency" since over-eating will waste less total pips.  I get all that and I agree with your assessment, regarding food waste.   

However, that does not change the fact that there are high pip density foods in the game that out-perform low pip density foods.    Roasted Mutton and bread are not a better option than mutton pies.  They are not more efficient in terms of providing the most usable pips for the least amount of effort and resources.    Foods like pies and whole milk provide so much more pips that, even if some of them get wasted, you are still going to make out better than if you put in the same amount of effort to produce only low pip density foods.

And for your adult population, it is much more time efficient to take a single bite of pie and go right back to work versus standing around eating one and a half bowls of green beans or saurkraut to max their bar.    The village needs low pip density foods for kids and elderly, since their food bars max out much lower than an adult.  And they should be taught to eat berries or popcorn or green beans or bread until they are older/younger again.    But the adult population should be taught to switch to the higher pip density foods when they are old enough, because they are the only ones that get the full benefit of a mutton pie.    Both types of foods should be present in good amounts in a healthy village.    Overeating and eating high density foods during the wrong life stage should be discouraged.

"Pip efficiency" is not the most important factor in deciding the most efficient food.   You need to expand your focus.

Crumpaloo wrote:

That was my point in a earlier comment, that me being nice and teaching a few new players is some how suppose to increase the playerbase single-handedly? But to also say that me NOT doing it is somehow going to put the rate of new players in the negative? If theres any chance that just i could affect the player base on such a wide scale that would take forever, and i and other people might not even be playing the game that long.

Well you individually doing it isn't going to make a huge difference, but if everyone who read this thread decided to start killing all their noob kids I reckon it would make a pretty significant difference to the average experience new players have.

Jeez some people in this community are so intolerant, definitely not the kind of people I would expect to play _this_ game in particular

Isn't this game about, like, not being a selfish prick? Yikes

Tell you what: I'll take any new player no matter how green over a player who is too busy role playing royalty that won't get their hands dirty doing lowborn work when the town is at risk of starving.  I can teach a new player the basic jobs of a village, I can only knife the waste of space that is too good to work.

Quit trying to optimize the first generation so much.  Your Eve village isn't a failure if it doesn't have iron tools and a sheep pen before you die.  You fail by failing to build a community.

The_Anabaptist

I also want to point out that berry is not the same as berry in bowl so yum bonus that up!

Crumpaloo wrote:

1. They know how to do either nothing or the bare minimum to keep themselves alive

2. They constantly waste food

3. They will kill players who kill greifers

4. They are more likely to grief

You're talking about a very specific 'type of noob' which is a rarity thanks to hardworking teachers.

Crumpaloo wrote:

5. They need to be taught which takes time from the people that know how to do important things

Teaching is the most important thing in this game. You won't learn double soil or yellow fever survival from onetech will you? How about yum? How would they ever even think of googling the right things without some interaction from other players?

Crumpaloo wrote:

6. They can doom your lineage if they are the only girl

And that can happen very often so better teach everyone something to boost their skills.

Crumpaloo wrote:

7. They forget to feed their babies

What I've seen, they mostly overfeed them and hold onto them more than forget.

Crumpaloo wrote:

10. They could be taken care of for 3 minutes as step on a rattle snake right after wasting the mothers time and food

Not many lives ago I did that. Someone who has done everything survival related in the game. Snake in swamp.

Crumpaloo wrote:

In general new players are useless, and a strain on resources, not being mean those are just the facts, if you got any reasons as to keep a new player in your village other then greifer fodder im all ears.

They are useless until people start dropping tips and tricks and explaining inconsistencies. There are many types of learners and some are "hands-on" learners, so they memorize everything effeciently by mimicking.

Anyways, I've carried enough towns to realize that's less important than equipping others with the latest information. Lots of old info with berry and carrot picking are stuck in veteran heads. Best newbies are communicating and eager to learn.

New players are not bad for the village.  They are a valuable, finite resource and should be treated like one.   If any game teaches the truth of the saying "the children are our future", it is OHOL.  No matter how experienced and industrious your adult villagers are ... if you run out of children, the village will die.   The same thing is true for online communities and multiplayer games like OHOL.  Fresh new players keep the game alive and bring in new ideas, new community members, new contributers. 

People are only "noobs" for a relatively short time.   If they are interested in the game and if they continue to play and learn more about it, they will not be inexperienced for very long at all.  You can help speed up the process by paying attention to other people and offering help, when someone is clearly struggling or when they ask for assistance.   You don't have to drop everything you are doing and you do not need to spend an entire hour tutoring a single noob.   Just take a little time out of your busy schedule to help another player learn how to be a better villager.   It might not pay off in this lifetime, but this is a game of death, rebirth and passing things on to future generations.  Good karma comes back around when the players that you mentored in a previous lifetime come back around to keep the compost cycle going, waste less food, and live longer without being a burden on the village.

Not to mention that it can be genuinely enjoyable to pass along hard won knowledge or help teach someone a new trade.  It is not always about hard work and efficiency.   This is a game and it should be enjoyed and enjoyable.   Have some fun and teach your new children how to make bean burritos.

  Life is too short to waste time drowning your noob babies.   Save your energy for dealing with griefers and assholes.

If you intentionally eat a second bite of mutton pie, then you are a monster.   

I refuse to believe that the "average" player is that stupid.  I just refuse.

I played with some numbers for my own amusement and I'll reproduce them here, in case anyone else likes food-based math as much as I do.

There are three bowl-based foods in the game that provide the same over-all pips.  A bowl of green beans restores three pips per use and can be used four times.   A bowl of saurkraut restores 6 pips and has two uses.  A bowl of turkey broth restores 12 pips and has just one use.   Each of these food items will give 12 pips if consumed entirely, but the green beans and saurkraut are more "pip efficient" (and less time efficient) since the pips are spread out across multiple interactions.   So let's consider a few scenarios to see how this affects food consumption and potential for waste.

Scenario 1 - Adult at 2 pips.  Needs 18 pips to reach max bar.
6 uses of green beans gives 18 pips (maxed out) cannot eat again immediately
3 uses of saurkraut gives 18 pips (maxed out) cannot eat again
1 use of broth gives 12 pips (14 pips total)  eating again would waste 6 pips.

Scenario 2 - Adult at 4 pips.  Needs 16 pips to reach max bar
5 uses of green beans give 15 pips (19 pips) eating again wastes 2 pips
2 uses of saurkraut gives 12 pips (16 pips) eating again wastes 2 pips
1 use of broth gives 12 pips (16 pips)  eating again wastes 8 pips

Scenario 3 - Adult at 6 pips.  Needs 14 pips to reach max bar
4 uses of green beans give 12 pips (18 pips) eating again wastes 1 pips
2 uses of saurkraut gives 12 pips (18 pips) eating again wastes 4 pips
1 use of broth gives 12 pips (18 pips)  eating again wastes 10 pips

Scenario 4 - Adult at 8 pips.  Needs 12 pips to reach max bar
4 uses of green beans gives 12 pips. (Maxed out)
2 uses of saurkraut gives 12 pips. (Maxed out)
1 use of turkey broth gives 12 pips (Maxed out).

So what does all that mean?   Well, it means that it is harder to waste pips when eating green beans, since each bite is so small, but you have to eat twice as many times, compared with saurkraut, and as much as five or six times as much compared with broth, which can get pretty tedious.  More uses per bowl gives you more control over how much you eat, so if getting to full hunger bar is very important to you, small bite foods might be a better choice to avoid waste.

But waste only happens if you eat a big bite when you are too full (or too young/old).   With a pip value of 12, one bowl of turkey broth will not cause any waste if you wait until your bar is under half, as an adult.  It only becomes a problem if you are greedily slurping down a second bowl of turkey water right away, instead of finding a smaller bite, or waiting until you are hungry enough for seconds.

If you are a young child or elder, then turkey broth might be a bad choice.  You would not want to eat this food (if you have any better options) when your max bar is less than 14, since the extra pips will be lost.  While green beans are a viable food source at ANY age, since they restore the lowest possible pip value.  There is hardly any wasted pips with this food and it is easy to max out your bar by eating a bowl or bowl and a half.   The same is true for other low pip value "small bite" foods, like gooseberry or popcorn.   They are relatively low waste snack foods that are a very smart choice for children and the elderly, due to their shorter hunger bars.

So why not feed your entire population on popcorn, green beans and berries?    You technically could do that, and I have occassionally seen berry towns, but it is not a smart idea.    Mutton pies are a nearly free byproduct of composting, which is essential for continued production of all crops.   So if you are properly maintaining a berry farm or green beans farm or corn farm, you will have plenty of wheat and mutton available for pies.   All varieties of pie (except carrot) are "big bite" high pip value foods.  And they a highly portable, multi-use, and space effiecient.  If you must leave your village, taking a pie with you provides an important safety net, in case, you run low on forage in a large barren biome.   You can travel further, explore deeper into hostile zones, and return safely, with a warm pie in your pack.   

So why not just eat pies and ignore everything else?   Because the majority of pies restore over half your hunger bar as an adult (13+ pips), so if you run out of low pip value food (berry bushes are empty, no popcorn, etc), then you will start to see a lot of food waste.   Too many pips lost when children or elders eat a big bite of pie, instead of a smaller bite of broth or saurkraut or bread or popcorn.

I don't think the answer to food waste is greater "pip efficiency".   I think the better answer is education and food variety.   Let people know that there are other options and encourage people to eat smarter, not harder.  And make sure that there are always enough low AND high pip value foods available, so that desperate hungry people are not forced to make bad choices.

Key word: Learning