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#251 Re: Main Forum » Plow not that worth » 2020-10-17 19:33:01

There's not much tool use needed to make a plow but if anybody wants I can try and work that in.

#252 Re: Main Forum » Plow not that worth » 2020-10-17 19:31:48

QuirkySmirkyIan wrote:

Also theres no way I'd be able to make a engine in 3 newcomen rofl usually takes me 5 or 6.

Most of the cost comes from the 18 iron needed to make the plow, not counting tool use. The iron alone takes 3.6 doses to mine:

18*0.2=3.6

Water costs 0.25 kero per bucket, so with 6 buckets that's 5.1 kero. That's 666 hoe uses worth of kero needed to pay off beyond the operating cost of 5.45 per run.

#253 Re: Main Forum » Plow not that worth » 2020-10-17 19:20:52

Spoonwood wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

With one iron a hoe can make 51 tilled rows, or 102 if you recycle the broken tool leftovers.

So, you've assumed tilling of a shallow row or a 3 soil pile.

Yes, most uses will be for reusing hardened rows. Occasionally you'll need to do milkweed, I don't count that though since that's the case for plows as well.

NoTruePunk wrote:

With one iron a hoe can make 51 tilled rows, or 102 if you recycle the broken tool leftovers. So one plow run is equal to 0.2*102=22 (rounded up)

(0.2 * 102) = 20.4.  Rounding to the nearest natural number, gives us 20.

But that's treating a plow run like it tills only one crop plot.

Can't ever round down since soil rows are integers. Have to round up to 21. Not sure how I got 22, I'll run through it again some time.

NoTruePunk wrote:

So runs need to be at least 25 rows long to ever be able to pay off.

I don't know how you got 25 rows here.

That was just a quick estimate, I knew it didn't really count since it wasn't counting soil. Turns out it was a gross underestimate. See the followup post by me for a propper breakdown.

#254 Re: Main Forum » Plow not that worth » 2020-10-17 10:43:38

The problem here isn't strictly the lengths of the runs, but how much it's used past that initial 5.45 tiles. That's determined by your rate of consumption, which is determined by the size of your society. A population of 12 is still going to take days and days of IRL time to consume all the wheat and potatos from the plow whether your runs are 10 or 100 tiles long, which means the engine will likely never get paid off. By all means, if some dingus made 4 engines then go ahead and turn one into a plow. But never make one for this purpose. For some reason everybody likes making engines, so you can probably loot a couple from a dead town before you fire up that newcomen hammer.

#255 Re: Main Forum » Plow not that worth » 2020-10-17 10:27:47

After much maths I figured out one bowl of soil costs aproximately 0.00569 kero doses. Most of that is from water, with a tiny amount of steel cost. It doesn't count when plowing for milkweed. I'll add this to the cost of the hoe:

102*0.00569+0.2=0.78038

The cost of the soil is significant. With each plowed furrow you save 0.00765 kero doses. That's compared to 0.00196 without factoring in the soil! So it starts paying off much earlier at run lengths of just 5.45, or 6 after rounding. If you want to use the plots for milkweed you'll have to lenthen them a bit to average out the cost, plus a little to pay off the engine eventually. I'd say runs of just 15 would very well be worth it.

It costs 4.4 kero doses to build a plow, assuming you only fire the newcomen 3 times. To pay that off you'd need to plow 568 tiles beyond the operating cost of 5.45 tiles per run. So at runs 15 tiles long it'll take 60 runs. That's not realistic. At runs 20 tiles long it'll take 39 runs to pay off the engine. Not in your lifetime, but maybe one day.

At runs 25 tiles long it will take 29 runs to pay off. Realistically it's going to take runs 30+, paying off after 23 runs. Lesson here is that engines are fucking expensive.

#256 Main Forum » Plow not that worth » 2020-10-17 08:55:19

NoTruePunk
Replies: 13

So to run the plow it takes 1/24th a dose of kero. One dose of kero gives 5 iron, so one plow run is worth 0.2 iron.

With one iron a hoe can make 51 tilled rows, or 102 if you recycle the broken tool leftovers. So one plow run is equal to 0.2*102=22 (rounded up)

It's not enough to just maintain it's value though, it needs to pay off the cost of making the plow eventually too. So runs need to be at least 25 rows long to ever be able to pay off.

This isn't counting the soil saved. If someone can tell me the kerosene equivalent to get soil I'll factor that in. Otherwise, I'll do the maths later.

#257 Main Forum » Destroy all graveyards » 2020-10-17 08:16:07

NoTruePunk
Replies: 21

For some reason in game I keep seeing vast fields of graveyards with tombstones engraved with things like "dearest mother, always present, but mentally absent" and "unnamed SID baby". Who is burrying every damn body in the village? There's a lot of bodies, and we don't get that space back, fools. They're not even far out from the village, they're right on top of the kitchen or smithy and it really messes up the layout of the village. Please if you can stop it do so. It's a waste of rocks that cpuld go to roads and a huge waste of labor and space.

The only people deserving of graves are eves.Destroy all graveyards.

#258 Re: Main Forum » I'm making FREE profile pics for a limited time » 2020-10-16 23:03:48

OneOfMany wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:
OneOfMany wrote:

What kind of truck? Semi, Tanker, Delivery?  <here you go, your welcome> Get it while you can. I will change my profile picture soon.

Kinda low quality tbh but ok

Profile pictures are limited to 60x60 pixels and it has to be less than 10k. Don't be upset if you ask for too much.  Ya Basic!

Didn't know, my apologies. ty ty

#259 Re: Main Forum » I'm making FREE profile pics for a limited time » 2020-10-16 22:57:15

OneOfMany wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

I want a screenshot of a topless jungle lady in a green tophat driving a truck surrounded by sheep making a whistling face

What kind of truck? Semi, Tanker, Delivery?  <here you go, your welcome> Get it while you can. I will change my profile picture soon.

Kinda low quality tbh but ok

#261 Re: Main Forum » I'm making FREE profile pics for a limited time » 2020-10-16 22:17:15

I want a screenshot of a topless jungle lady in a green tophat driving a truck surrounded by sheep making a whistling face

#263 Re: Main Forum » Griefers nicknames and what they're doing » 2020-10-15 17:59:57

FishRfriendsnotfood wrote:

Hmmmm I wonder if I'm code fire?!  I don't use racial slurs though.

You called me a r*tard? That's a slur in my book

#264 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-15 02:31:59

JonySky wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
JonySky wrote:

The memescore must not be modified ... it must be removed

What's your objection(s)?

Typically in video games, rewards, scores and prizes are earned through the effort of the player or a team of players

For example, in APEX Legends, a team of players unite the skills of each character / player to be victorious (there is a common goal)

In OHOL there is no teamwork, the players perform individual tasks for 60 minutes (most of the time for fun)

Surely some of you think that the challenge of the group is to survive ... but to survive is an individual and personal challenge, it is not a family challenge

In early camp, when there is no food, the most skilled players survive ...
the fate of the family is pure luck! ... if the last girl is a new player ... that family dies ... that simple

There is no team, no family ... Each player is independent and performs independent tasks

So ... why has a score been created where the survival of the family is so important?

Simple: it is another forced mechanic to encourage teamwork, just like skill boxes and racist skills

But ... as in any game, you can always take advantage of the defects of the game mechanics

In OHOL, you can dedicate some games to raise your genetic score by forcing the feeding of your closest relatives so that they do not die of hunger and chasing and watching them with pads and needles, like a babysitter so that they do not end up dead

this is the only thing that encourages the genetic punctuation of meme ...
and ... no this is not family work either

I think we get a nice amount of teamwork on cooking and furnace tasks. And delegation and division of labor still counts as teamwork to me. Having someone go prep stacks of kindling is a huge help for everyone, even if they never personally use the kindling and it's an individual task.

#265 Re: Main Forum » Griefers nicknames and what they're doing » 2020-10-15 02:23:15

FLOOD GIFT - tried to frame me for destroying the furnaces. I just rebuilt them of course

#268 Re: Main Forum » Griefers nicknames and what they're doing » 2020-10-14 06:51:14

CODE FIRE - troll and foul mouth. Uses slurs in game. I don't need this kind of toxicity tbh

#269 Re: Main Forum » Genetic Fitness Rework? » 2020-10-13 08:10:43

I don't think gene score is important. It's just a flex, and yes it's a bit random. I don't think that's a problem.

#270 Re: Main Forum » Kerosene tutorial? » 2020-10-09 23:23:00

DestinyCall wrote:

How much water = Lots and lots

So each tank of crude takes 1 bucket of water to make, not counting drilling. So right away each crude use takes one bucket.

There's a 1/5 chance to get a gushing oil well each time you drill, and each gushing spot is good for 11 crude extractions on average. 5/11 =.4545

So far we have

1+0.45=1.45

But! Rolling and boring the steel into pipes also takes water in the multipurpose Newcomen engine. Assuming you can make 6 rods with each firing of the roller mechanism and bore those 6 rods with each firing of the boring mechanism that's 1/3 of a bucket of water per pipe. That's a fairly generous allotment, as firing that many takes skill, setup and a good connection. The maximum amount of water it could take is 2 buckets per pipe. So let's add that back into the drilling cost:

5.33/11=0.48
7/11=0.63

This is still pretty middling so I'm going to go ahead and average those values to 0.56, bringing us to a cost of 1.56 buckets of water per tank of crude.

Drilling also takes steel pipes, each requiring 1 iron to produce. Each iron takes 1/5 of a kerosene use in a diesel mine, and each kerosene use takes 1/6 of a tank of crude. This is a small amount, but for now we'll just call it X. The real value of X will always be greater than 0 but less than it's max value, since manual mining accounts for some amount of iron that will go into the system initially. I think this requires an infinite series to calculate, since kerosene takes itself to produce, but I'm just going to treat it as a flat value for simplicity.

1.56/30=0.052

Add that back into the cost of drilling again:

5.39/11=0.49
7.052/11=0.64

So each tank of kero takes, on average, ROUGHLY, 1.49 to 1.64 buckets of water to make. That's 0.25 to 0.27 buckets per use.

The only part of this we have any control over is how many pipes and rods we get out of each Newcomen firing, which doesn't amount to much in the equation. So if you're rolling and boring pipes for it in a dedicated fashion then go ahead and get as many as you can out, but if there's any sort of logistical cost such as storage or transportation associated with making them in advance then I would definitely pass on it. Just make enough for one trip out to the oil rig.

#271 Main Forum » Kerosene tutorial? » 2020-10-09 20:55:57

NoTruePunk
Replies: 4

Are there any accurate tutorials out there right now on how to get kerosene? How do tarry spots work? How much water does it take to make kerosene?

#272 Re: Main Forum » Diesel or newcomen well? » 2020-10-09 20:52:33

DestinyCall wrote:

Here is a question - the dry newcomen pump is a different object than the dry kerosene newcomen pump.   Both pumps have 5 uses with 10% chance to use up one of the uses each time you interact.    The estimated average number of uses before the pump exhausts is 41 uses (but could be as low as 5, if you have bad luck)

Do they share the same usage or are they tracked separately?   What happens to the remaining uses if you switch between kerosene and charcoal?   Does it save the number or does it reset back to five?

Maybe the best option would be alternating back and forth repeatedly.

Probably tracked together.

#273 Main Forum » Diesel or newcomen well? » 2020-10-09 10:51:34

NoTruePunk
Replies: 29

Which is better? Newcomen takes charcoal, which is probably more efficient in the long run compared to kerosene.

#274 Re: Main Forum » Merged leadership of arctic and translator people today » 2020-10-09 10:39:55

erinaceus wrote:
cordy wrote:

NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.
But no one noticed the girl in time, with 10 people in the kitchen shouting about the griefers who could not be killed.

They always had possibility to elect new leader among them! Yes, they would lost access to vault temporarily (until some of them reach age to destroy fence using paper), but they would not have issues with griefers anymore.
Am I wrong?

That doesn't come with a title. Only titles get passed on automatically.

#275 Re: Main Forum » Merged leadership of arctic and translator people today » 2020-10-08 22:20:45

cordy wrote:

NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.

Guess what happened?

There were people trying to kill each other in Coronel Town for over 40 minutes.

Griefers trying to kill. Fed up people trying to stop the griefers. The leader was a white man around 2000 tiles away.

Until finally, the family line died.

Not with a murder but with baby girl June saying F trying to drop herself from her just turned 40 year old mother's arms.

But no one noticed the girl in time, with 10 people in the kitchen shouting about the griefers who could not be killed.

I don't understand, shouldn't the coronel town still have had a lord or lady to look over it? Before I died the Smith leader died and I was promoted to Baron, which seems wrong for some reason. How I expected it to work was the coronel family would all follow the Smiths, allowing their leader to issue orders to our people and allowing their leader to kill our leader if needed. I didn't think that it would leave the coronels leaderless. This seems wrong for some reason, is this intended behavior?

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