a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Spoonwood wrote:Dodge wrote:@Spoonwood Only the OG concept of "One Hour One Life" will make most of us care about kids but imo the game is not ready for that yet.
What is the OG concept?
It's in the name of the game "One Hour One Life", one life per hour.
Currently we have multiple lives per hour which makes each life trivial since you can just get reborn immediatly after dying.
Lineages dying means nothing as there is no risk at all involved, so keeping a lineage going or taking care of kids is just a courtesy done to other players.
I faintly remembered reading something about this years ago, and I told myself I would try this game later - but I promptly forgot about it. And only discovered this game now.
If memory serves me right, if you die, you really do get locked out of the game and have to wait realtime to get another life.
@Spoonwood Only the OG concept of "One Hour One Life" will make most of us care about kids but imo the game is not ready for that yet.
Atm if you die you can just "get reborn" immediatly so there is no meaning to care about kids, who cares if the baby dies since he can get reborn.
Also the map being infinite really diminishes the importance of making civilisations and lineages.
And why care about a lineage specifically?
If there was a fixed limited number of eve's per ammount of time and lineages dying meant nobody could play the game until the next Eve, then the importance of raising kids would have a totally different meaning.
Players would care about every baby like it's something precious because they would know that with only one life per hour and a limited number of Eve's if you dont take care of that baby it could mean the end of all civilizations on the server.
This makes everything sound really dire though, but that's what drives human civilization forward.
Wish I have the resourcen, time and expertise to run a server
Well it's still a work in progress, a lot of experiments going on. We don't know how the slow drain will affect villages bc we haven't had any villages yet lol
Don't worry, it's cool. Will pop in tomorrow. Promise
Thank ya'll, and yes Tarr I made an error in typing it haha, it's meant to be twice as slow not the other way around, so hunger pips decrease slower than normal. And right now I believe our final version is currently in the middle of building so it may be a hot minute before the server is live.
I think he actually preferred to keep the drain rate the same.
Honestly hunger is already largely a non issue for a reasonably experienced player.
With so much food options in this new server, we would like to get hungry faster to try the delicacies =P
RodneyC86 wrote:lychee wrote:Because there's really no real reason/stake to play for your "kids".
OHOL is a game in the end, and the primary objective of each player is to have fun (however each individual player defines it).
Consequently, some fraction of players consider it more fun to do certain game projects (e.g. build a house) than raise kids.
Some fraction of players are the opposite and they really enjoy kids.
A good portion of players play for the longevity of their settlement ("wanting to leave their mark on the world") -- which can translate into a desire of having girls -- but this is more about having a high frequency of kids more so than treasuring each child deeply and equivalently. In most circumstances, most players don't care if it's their own kid versus someone else's kid, as long as there are girls to continue the settlement.
In OHOL, the game mechanic simulates "caring for kids", but that feeling isn't actually the same as it is on Earth.
i keep saying, life is cheap in OHOL, one hour is too fleeting. A typical movie is longer than that.
Also, raising kids become samey
"Hi bb"
"You are ***""F *uweh*"
*Pick up bb
*Stoke the fire*baby turns 3
"GL BB"
"TY"99 percent of parents and children do this. If you are lucky, might run into parent who bother to ask are you new? (I try to remember i swear)
Throw in maybe clothing your baby, but lately i see the trend that people dont clothe their babies anymore, whats up with that???!!!TLDR: parenting is boring
EDIT: before anyone gets triggered, parenting in OHOL is boring
Do you think that part of the boredom arises from that the child only has so many letter than he or she can type?
No, allowing them to type too much would probably kill it for me. I get that it would help new players since then they can ask questions easier. But then you have the annoying trolls.
I am already stressed being cooped in my own village, last thing I need is a baby that behaves like Stewie from Family Guy
Wow this looks awesome. Will definitely pop in at some point. Looks like this could be a nice sandbox for some creative building
Because there's really no real reason/stake to play for your "kids".
OHOL is a game in the end, and the primary objective of each player is to have fun (however each individual player defines it).
Consequently, some fraction of players consider it more fun to do certain game projects (e.g. build a house) than raise kids.
Some fraction of players are the opposite and they really enjoy kids.
A good portion of players play for the longevity of their settlement ("wanting to leave their mark on the world") -- which can translate into a desire of having girls -- but this is more about having a high frequency of kids more so than treasuring each child deeply and equivalently. In most circumstances, most players don't care if it's their own kid versus someone else's kid, as long as there are girls to continue the settlement.
In OHOL, the game mechanic simulates "caring for kids", but that feeling isn't actually the same as it is on Earth.
i keep saying, life is cheap in OHOL, one hour is too fleeting. A typical movie is longer than that.
Also, raising kids become samey
"Hi bb"
"You are ***"
"F *uweh*"
*Pick up bb
*Stoke the fire
*baby turns 3
"GL BB"
"TY"
99 percent of parents and children do this. If you are lucky, might run into parent who bother to ask are you new? (I try to remember i swear)
Throw in maybe clothing your baby, but lately i see the trend that people dont clothe their babies anymore, whats up with that???!!!
TLDR: parenting is boring
EDIT: before anyone gets triggered, parenting in OHOL is boring
Mainly only being cooped up inside the town. Something about plooping out a child and leaving it for dead in the wilderness feels viscerally wrong to me.
I also like exploring - so I am heavily inclined to like playing as a male
RodneyC86 wrote:War drives innovation in our history. Unfortunately, you can't parallel this in OHOL since inventions are only done by one man
Innovations of what though... weapons?
There's canned food, tea bags, digital photography, stainless steel.
Big leaps in the aerospace industry.
The Internet is the biggest and most important war baby, by far. You and I won't be talking to each other if not for war or at least, entities associated with war have decided to start this.
" The first workable prototype of the Internet came in the late 1960s with the creation of ARPANET, or the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network. Originally funded by the U.S. Department of Defense, ARPANET used packet switching to allow multiple computers to communicate on a single network. "
https://www.history.com/news/who-invented-the-internet
Human desperation can be a surprising innovator. When scientists know their nation is threatened, amazing shit can come out.
This is purely speculative but some even think if humans never had war, we would still be sitting lazily munching on gooseberries (okay im kidding on the second half on this sentence)
BIG DISCLAIMER: I'M NOT JUSTIFYING WAR, DON'T CHASTISE ME SPOON LOLOL
RodneyC86 wrote:Yeah I would have saved the beans in a bowl
I have never attempted a radio, it's daunting and I can see why many would see them as clutter if they don't know how to make one.I have made a radio and the town had a receiver and transmitter. If someone wanted to make another they can hunt for them.
I put the beans in a bowl at first, but later, like 8 years later I found a little girl emptying the bowl because she needed it for berries (there were plenty of bowls in the town, but I guess she didn't see them.) So I just took them out of town.
At this point I'm like "use it or it goes in the trash" *every* item in the game is useful in some way if you let that bother you you will never clear enough space for the town to get running again. Look at how many tiles *in the center of town* were filled with junk no one was using!
Also if trash areas just out of town become common you'll know to look for any little junky item you need out there before going on a journey for resources.
I once died because I had a rose seed in my hand and couldn't put it down without picking something else up. Clutter is deadly.
Lol, I totally feel you on the dying due to clutter. I got killed by a bone needle once because I couldn't see it until its too late and I did not eat in time.
Now IRL, I get even more triggered when I see a litterbug, I yell internally everytime I see the car in front of me doing it (Our countryfolk have shitty attitudes with littering)
I remember LostScholar, someone who started the now wiped server12 project, once saying that there is a lot to do in this game. And there is nothing to do in this game after that. At least that's the basic idea. I think Tarr thinks the same way, and my experience in low population play kind of comes as the same. TONS to do at the beginning, and then, unless you're more creative and inventive than me or like to do basic maintained, there doesn't feel like there's much to do.
RodneyC86 wrote:PS: someone once told me in game, the hardest part of the game is in fact the part where the town has fully advanced, finding meaning in the one hour life. So far everyone fails miserably
I've seen a few people do very creative designs on the pre-wipe server12 that leads me to think otherwise. But, griefing was pretty much non-existent, so I might oversimplify.
So why have people turned degenerate of late?
I've been on the one city server once. Just to check it out, it was AWESOME, that server hasn't wiped in months I think
maybe the constant server wipe on BS2 has disillusioned players?
Apparently futurebird doesn't appreciate beans in terms of bean burritos, bean tacos, stew, or other uses I've forgotten.
Getting rid of worms by fishing doesn't take much time in my experience once you have the pole and hook, which I'm not sure is there or not.
I see niter. Did the town have a radio? Have you made a radio futurebird? You really think that's clutter lying around town? I'll remind you that need the radios to talk to anyone outside of your lineage. You're going to need like half a dozen niter or something, and it's not easy to see in a desert exactly (and someone was probably in a hot desert while looking for it). You don't want to just process the niter right away either. As soon as you put niter into a clay bowl, the clay bowl is done in terms of doing anything else than eventually becoming a daniel cell, and can't get turned into an empty clay bowl anymore (unless you do a camera thing I think), so processing niter right away isn't smart. Not finding enough niter can hold a radio maker back, and a radio maker needs niter, malachite, calamite, glasswort, lots of kindling, paper, alum, and I think some other things I don't recall offhand.
Yeah I would have saved the beans in a bowl
I have never attempted a radio, it's daunting and I can see why many would see them as clutter if they don't know how to make one.
So basically tying tech levels to generations. Its fun that it ensures someone always have something to do but two issues
The tech tree is not vertical enough to sustain this. I heard a bunch of good players can reach diesel pumps by generation 6!!! . So if one were to say allow engines only by 25th generation the early game will fall flat faster.
Second issue is, what if you are born 'behind'? Often in born and realize my nephew/niece is already in their teens. So they would have done up whatever tech that has opened u for them, leaving me with nothing.
It's an interesting thought though
RodneyC86 wrote:Spoonwood wrote:According to Wikipedia, "Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits." https://archive.is/sDmAD
MissImortal, griefed on one evening so far as we know. So, I don't think it's fair to characterize such as psychopathy, since a behavior occurring once does NOT make such behavior persistent.
That remains to be seen. The seeds are there. Fair enough.
Wasn't there a part about psychopaths usually being charismatic on the surface?You're making quite the judgement about someone's character here. How about you leave things like this to a psychiatrist? I don't support griefing but you are taking quite a leap here..
Heh, sorry I'm disinhibited on the nets. I'm just calling it as I see it, nothing grinds my gears more than people who are are nice on the surface but proceeds to grief others behind. I don't feel the obligation to hold back against these sort of persons.
Peace
War drives innovation in our history. Unfortunately, you can't parallel this in OHOL since inventions are only done by one man
futurebird wrote:When a family "tops out" the tech tree should they just die out?
Is there a cistern by every oil pump?
Is it full?
Is there enough wood by the fire?
Is there ice cream?
Photos?
Are the buildings all complete?
Are the farms optimized?If it's a mess there is plenty to do. Help clean it up.
Sorry to say but many people (including myself) are likely to never enjoy late game. Maybe if I felt like late game technology was actually worth the time and effort (planes, cars, photos, radios, etc.), this could change. Instead, if you really care about the longevity of your town, these things can be detrimental to build (this is a major issue IMO). Cars and planes require SOOO much iron and can easily be lost or griefed...I'll take a few extra horses instead. Even baking diverse foods is a waste of time most of the time because of how few people build a yum bonus. You're better of just making pies so your nooby females don't accidentally starve since they can't recognize what is edible.
My impact also feels very little in these advanced civilizations. Of course there are things that I know I can do to help, but most of the time the town is not going to die out if I don't (even if I were to actively try to ruin it). In an early game civilization, I can often 'carry' and try to make an Eve's day. Even if I feel like taking it easy, I know I am always make a difference in an early civilization. It's also really rewarding when I see these civilizations are still around a day later. I honestly don't even follow the lineage of advanced civilizations because they already have gotten there. What does it matter if it goes another 10 or 20 generations?
When I bought this game, part of the appeal was that I could choose my life
with /DIE. Now though it feels like late-game is being forced on me and, to be honest, I have just not been playing much because of it.For the record, I have been generally happy with the changes to the game the last 8 months or so since I've been playing. Not this change though (at least in its current state). If playing early game becomes a rarity, I will quit the game because I just don't think advanced civilizations are fun.
Advanced towns feel eerily like modern day cities. More people are getting depressed because each individual matters less and less as population goes up.
Only reason why stabfests don't happen in reality is because consequences and you don't respawn if you die in real life
PS: someone once told me in game, the hardest part of the game is in fact the part where the town has fully advanced, finding meaning in the one hour life. So far everyone fails miserably
ROPE
This man, is objectively correct in an opinion thread.
InSpace foreshadowing something
RodneyC86 wrote:Spoonwood wrote:Couldn't disagree more.
Why? Because art is only for consumption? In the strictest sense no, art is first and foremost an expression.
No, it's NOT foremost an expression. An expression doesn't have to have a recipient. It's NOT art until someone views, hears, or otherwise senses it and *judges* what got produced as art.
I don't agree that responsibility kills creativity, because the responsibilities of an artist include creativity, and art has to come as creative in some aspect (not necessarily many aspects as Andy Warhol sometimes showed). Thus, if responsibility killed creativity, artists wouldn't be able to produce art.
RodneyC86 wrote:I could argue people who ‘responsibly’ produce art for their fans as celebrities, not true artists.
I don't know your argument, but art only increases in value by satisfying more people since all preferences matter equally.
What? That makes no sense, you were referring to responsibility to customers or responsibility to creativity now? Weren’t you harping that artists should be responsible to their customers first? I think the true artists are responsible to creativity first, customers second.
You can be responsible to both yes, but from my experience watching content creators, many who jump from a humble beginning to a more ‘corporate level’ consumer type art ‘products’ feels caged in having to responsibly churn out their works on a timely basis. Most will resort to tropes, fads , memes. Some will eventually quit to go back to their roots to make their own art.
So yes I still think responsibility kills creativity and art.
And art is still an expression first per definition , a creative one.
This is going nowhere, I’m signing out.
RodneyC86 wrote:Spoonwood wrote:Art is for other people, not the designer.
If you don't like some piece of work, or some aspect of that work, that someone tells you is art, you have a right to complain about it. Good artists have a responsiblity to their consumers just as people selling non-artistic products have such a responsibility.
Wow, good artists expresses themselves through their work, consequences be damned. Responsibility is a killer of creativity.
Couldn't disagree more.
Why? Because art is only for consumption? In the strictest sense no, art is first and foremost an expression.
I could argue people who ‘responsibly’ produce art for their fans as celebrities, not true artists.
Art is for other people, not the designer.
If you don't like some piece of work, or some aspect of that work, that someone tells you is art, you have a right to complain about it. Good artists have a responsiblity to their consumers just as people selling non-artistic products have such a responsibility.
Wow, good artists expresses themselves through their work, consequences be damned. Responsibility is a killer of creativity.
Because OHOL is a social experiment
lychee wrote:At best, you could call these "scuffles" or "gang violence" -- which is essentially what the inter-family violence is in OHOL.
Agree. If we really want to see *interesting* war we'd need larger better organized towns. I'm not just talking about organizing stuff... but social organization. Books, writing, history, industry etc.
I dream of urban sprawl, highly polluting factories (car and engine factories) , the nuclear family in homes. And game content so large that most *typical main stream player* would only learn a few fields of interest and stuck to them, depending largely on other players to pick other professions. Alas, Jason is but one man and making such a massive system is probably impossible in his time.
Maybe someday a group of developers will take the open source and run with it into a mainstream game.
You gotta admire his tenacity though. At least he is passionate. Can’t fault him there.
But the people skills. You can get a much better reaction if you are a bit more polite, spoon.
I dont think he will stop updating the game until he's satisfied with how it is, or unless it doesn't sell anymore
"I'm getting a little tired of people who clearly don't see games as expressive art that can *say* important things about the human condition and instead act like this forum is "customer service" rather than a space for collaboration and creativity."
Same
Hear hear. Though now I play less now as I have found other pursuits, the game had me thinking about my own mortality more. So many games these days are just die-respawn-go kick ass to make others die-respawn. BORING