a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
what's been driving me crazy is people using hunter-gatherer cultures as a counter example. You can easily live a nasty, brutish, and short life running around eating bananas and berries if you want. It's actually really easy to stay alive in fresh wilderness in this game, but it's a limited number of circumstances where anyone moved significantly past hunting-gathering on the real life "tech tree". So that you can live naked in the desert is well demonstrated, but look at how they live.
also though, this is supposed to be post apocalypse in the sense that we have modern ideas and knowledge, we're just starting from nothing. Jason has discussed this before, I believe when he was introducing the Newcomon pump and talking about how improbable the industrial revolution was at all, and how long it would take for people to figure it out again with the ideas we have now but starting with nothing.
You are supposed to die for no reason, according to the dev. You aren't supposed to survive and so there shouldn't be any biome that is hospitable. Just die because the bushes are empty already.
Isn't this an amazing rewarding gaming experience.
have you considered the possibility that you're just not good at surviving? This is a survival game, you know
This is how we used to do it before you could just set them on the edge of the biome and only have to feed like 3 times total.
I'm glad it's back.
We do need to remember to use this position for sharing important knowledge. I was just saying this in my iron thread, that these are the woman to maintain the knowledge of iron expeditions (and where it is picked out)
Oh, that part is my bad, i'm never the one who does any of the smithing, and mostly just know it in theory. I'm also guilty of not returning tools to smiths, so i'm glad i know this now!
I feel stupid, because i have seen scrap iron around.
Hopefully this helps more people than just me, because I see broken tools laying around all the time.
I think we're actually talking way too much about wasted shovel uses and not enough about the importance of recycling, in terms of long term iron viability, because if each tool is half a new tool, i bet we're losing more iron use to despawn then to irresponsible use of iron.
I've asked a moderate amount of smiths for a new tool due to mine having broken, and don't believe i've ever been asked to return the broken tool.
Edit: there is something else i meant to add
in my expedition, i found some good abandoned rabbit trapping sites with dead rabbits and snares. I should have considered loading up on rabbits and coming home then trying a different direction. Rabbits are all the more important now, and the warmth and food they provide does reduce iron consumption.
Recently, if I'm in a mature civ as a man, and there is an available horsecart, i take it upon myself to go out iron gathering.
Basically just grab a few pies and a sharp stone, make new baskets, and spend most of my life finding iron.
There has been some contention about the extent to which truly running out of iron is a problem.
Honestly, in my experience, in a mature civ, it's pretty much a once in a lifetime task to collect 12 iron, you'll be too old to do the expedition twice. And there's a risk of losing the horse and cart, and leaving found iron concentrated somewhere harder to find. In my last game, I traveled southwest from the Bob camp, where i was apparently gen 31. I had wanted a knife for sheep, and there was seemingly no active smithy and a shortage of iron. So i took off without telling anyone. On this journey, there were quite a few signs of life, but no signs anyone had iron tools, nothing bigger than small farms. and still, it was maybe 10 minutes before I found my first iron. I ultimately found 10 and barely made it home in time.
of course, it's possible that there were piles I didn't find, but it seems more likely, someone from my direction and other directions had already picked iron there. It's also highly possible there were abandoned carts of iron throughout the wilds, i do often see them if I run off as a child.
Hopefully, this iron is at least somewhat rebalanced in the future, but for the time being, since it never respawns and is crucial, we need to try to pass down oral knowledge about iron locations. i should have asked if anyone knew the history of iron runs before going, though it seems unlikely. In this instance, i also suspect i was running along an Eve spiral. I saw a small amount of spawns, but humans had been almost everywhere before.
This game, though I didn't ask questions first, but i did tell everyone around the fire where I found iron and that it was picked out when i got back. [BTW, if you want players to be impressed with you, show up with a full cart of iron]. Another game, I found a dead civ with stacks of wrought iron, and was also able to relay the location.
of course, there's a strategy dilemma as well, do you run straight till you see widespread new spawn, or do you search for dead civ that has already collected it?
I'm as guilty as anyone of being a poor communicator in this game, but we need to make a point of passing on knowledge about iron. My suggestion is, with it now making more sense to have a dedicated mother by the fire, we also need to use this person as a keeper of knowledge, about iron collection history most of all.
Further, of course, the smith is an obvious person to carry this knowledge.
Someone, i don't remember who, claimed they were skeptical any civilization actually collapsing from lack of iron, as opposed to from failing to make the effort to collect it.
I'm sure many fail for lack of trying, but i spent half a lifetime on a horse cart travelling 1.2 (and thoroughly exploring) to get 10 iron.
As long as iron is the way it is, this is one of our most important organizational tasks, as it is the main hard limit on civilization in an area.
If you never go on iron runs, try it some time. It's wild out there in the wilds. But try to actually inquire first and tell people where you're going, and pass on that knowledge to others.
[also, for game change, we need to be able to recycle tools, at last, it's totally unrealistic that broken metal tools are just thrown away and can't be remelted. They should at least be have 4 recycled make 1 new tool and 1 kindling per tool]
yeah it absolutely reminds me of the more fun and challenging feel of before the desert update. I good portion of Eve camps should collapse before they get sustainable agriculture, even with experienced players.
It shouldn't be easy to just start a post apocalyptic civilization standing around naked in the desert.
The other biomes remain unchanged for the naked player. Thus, the game isn't really any harder now than it was before, unless you count the loss of the desert-boundary exploit as making the game harder (yes, that was easy, but the game was never supposed to be easy like that). Clothing and walls are so much more helpful now, that the game might even be easier, ignoring the old exploit.
Here's hoping that the new system leads players toward advanced civilizations full of heated buildings and clothed residents.
Thank you! i hated desert living the whole time, and life being frantic and difficult in early game is what made this game so incredibly fun. Living in a city there's plenty of food anyway. I'm sure there's some kinks to work out, but this is a huge improvement.
We really need some more clothes, especially long desert robes that moderate heat well.
Also, one potential solution to two problems is to make it so you get poop from feeding shorn sheep instead of lambs. Then mutton pie is no longer a necessary byproduct of composting (to the same extent) so we'll have more diverse food intake, and there will be more clothing for all the people upset about that.
also none of this is that broken. I did get a temperature shock kill that was moderately annoying, but I was running around in the wilds with no home camp. chasing some stray evidence of life, I did die suddenly, but had also basically ran into an unknown desert with no real plan carrying only a carrot, so i shouldn't necessarily survive easily in that situation.
Where did you think the outsiders started from? They were naked people in the jungle and desert as well. Just because the "outsiders'" civ advanced faster than the aboriginals, doesn't mean that they don't have a right to exist and live the way they want to.
I've always said long term hunting and gathering should be more viable and fun in this game, but the point is aborigines didn't set up large sedentary population habitations that advanced in technology.
You can play like an aborigine if you want, but the fact is, aborigines didn't have iron tools, so the tech limitations are pretty obvious.
he emailed me back at 11:45 on Friday night.
just saying.
being frantic and exciting and getting your heart pumping is the greatest aspect of this game. Eve camps should have at MOST 75% survival rates with experienced players.
You are rarely made Eves now, if noobs fail at it then get born back into civs no big deal.
I just had an amazing eve experience, though time will still tell if they made gen 5, we barely kept it together a couple of times, but got agriculture going, so exciting.
I hadnt spawned an eve in forever, there was another reset or something, I spawned eve babies twice to clueless eves, then as an eve with twins I abandoned.
(on the rare occasion I am Eve, I'm Eve Ormiston)
fragilityh14 wrote:Lets be serious, regardless of how you feel about adapting to the new update, it was absolutely ridiculous that being in the desert naked was ideal because clothes were a waste of resources and a liability.
Also, why do you think noobs weren't getting any better? Cause you could survive standing around eating berries naked and never had cause to learn anything.
Tell that to the Australian aboriginals.
they never moved past being hunter-gatherers until outsiders showed up, so exactly my point.
You know, I was introduced to the game via the Vice article last March or so, which made it clear you die a lot when you're starting and it's an accomplishment to live to old age.
I probably came at the game with much different expectations than other people.
Anyone who thinks this is playable, really playable, not just survive on tryhard mode and make sure not to cross biomes when older, you are delusional.
I stayed alive to 60 for 3 lives and it wasn't even mildly challenging any of those times, and I'm no sort of videogame expert. Just keep your food bar full.
so in your opinion it's better if temperature is a weird meta puzzle instead of, you know, making and wearing clothes?
Btw, a family line has made it to 41 today, so it's empirically untrue that this makes it impossible for family lines to thrive, just look at the front page
Give me a break i might be new to this forum but i am not new to this game i have probably put in 500 hours. Sure i could stay alive and not starve, but that does not mean it is fun or that i could be productive and get anything useful accomplished. Just because you have a thing for jason and his vision does not mean that everyone else does. This game is NOT FUN.
your hero jason was saying how he first intended to charge five dollars for one life on this game, i wouldn't pay 5 cents.
he has also said that he didn't intend this game to be played for long periods of time that a few lives would be worth the 20 bux. I say bullshit. I pay 20 bux for games like morrowind and i expect to play FOREVER as long as i want, and i also expect there to be quality in the game and it to be fun.
I've played about 160 hours, so you've played 3x as much as me. Yeah you got super ripped off for your $20
This is a survival game, surviving should be a challenge I hadn't survived in any circumstances besides my mom abandoning me or being over 55 for well over 10 hours of gameplay. I finally did as a 10 year old when food ran out because people were being dumb and the wild berries were picked clean.
It is actually supposed to be challenging to stay alive. It is stupid that it was ideal to stand in the desert naked.
Jason certainly isn't my hero, though in the context of OHOL he is quite literally the god [in that he created the world and controls its rules]. He messed up leaving the desert like it was for so long, because neutral biomes should have always been ideal for civilization arising. Having played since before deserts, and then having taken an extended break, the desert "meta" thing drove me crazy the whole damn time.
I have played three full lives since the temp change. In one, two I was in camp and did my normal stuff and made food and it was 100 percent fine. You just eat when you're hungry.
already, one day in there were clothes for moms to give babies or clothes to scavenge off of dead bodies.
In another game I ran off to make a camp, and though I brought a backpack and a bowl and a pie, and found some other stuff, I was able to accomplish plenty while raising kids [though as ever they died right next to berry bushes with berries on them].
I left a camp for the next person who might find it with fire equipment, 15 full gooseberry bushes, and the things I took from the initial camp, with plenty of soil and water around and water vessels.
Clothes should be an early concern, but just club a damn seal and carve off the fur, it takes no tech but a sharp stone. Get a reed skirt, which also takes no tech but sharp stone.
It's clear by how much y'all are thrashing around at the slightest challenge that desert living took the challenge out of the game.
It was like this before deserts were added, except we have WAY more advantages now in terms of tech etc.
staying alive running around the wilds with no tool but a sharp rock should be at least mildly challenging.
Lets be serious, regardless of how you feel about adapting to the new update, it was absolutely ridiculous that being in the desert naked was ideal because clothes were a waste of resources and a liability.
Also, why do you think noobs weren't getting any better? Cause you could survive standing around eating berries naked and never had cause to learn anything.
If this update doesn't feel like that much of a change, it probably means you were spending way too much time out in the cold, instead of managing your temperture using free biome heat. This also means your food consumption was significantly higher than someone who took full advantage of the jungle/desert warmth to keep themselves close to optimal temp while working.
I wouldn't consider that something to feel proud about, honestly. Although, i guess it works to your favor now that we are all stuck in cold camps and must avoid hot zones.
I just eat when my food gauge goes down and carry food.
But I do spend all of my time working, not, you know, standing around. I'm also running to and fro gathering things. I produce a huge surplus of food every game where I make food, and if not I'm generally gathering from the wilds and primarily living off of wild food and just setting stuff at camp. And I set up my own camps a lot. I always get it going and live in colder biomes fine.
but what you say confirms what i was suspecting: that a lot of people were prioritizing standing around and not using much food compared to actually doing things. How much do you ever accomplish never stepping off the edge of a desert biome?
if neutral biomes didn't change, this really does barely effect me, since I only even started doing desert camps since my babies were all suiciding if I set up farms in the green grasslands, and it's a huge pain in the ass to find desert or open jungle sufficiently close to water and soil.
Seriously, just make clothes, grow milkweed until you have sheep, clothes aren't difficult.
the other thing i realize is we all played like this before deserts were added, so it's definitely more of a shock for people who played for months naked in the desert.
As a holdout to moving to desert living, the change of this temp update has been barely noticeable for my own survival.
I ran off to start my own camp, and despite that none of my kids decided to stay and play, it was perfectly easy. I really only had a bowl and a pie and some scavenged clothes I found along the way (there have been no shortage of clothes being passed on) and I was able to get a fire and 15 berry bushes going etc
i guess maybe this is getting the new players more, because before the deserts were added, we all lived like this all the time, and without a yum bonus.
Anyway, i've always just tried to keep my hunger bar near full and carry food etc.
Besides that clothes are actually useful again, this wouldn't be that big of a thing besides that people seem used to just standing around optimizing temp all the time and trying to eat as little food as possible, instead of working hard and accepting high food consumption.
This is all barely effecting my playing style besides actually wearing clothes and not having to live in the desert anymore. We should be avoiding desert and jungle unless we need something, they're dangerous AF.
Eating a lot has always been an element of the game. It is not that damn hard to parent and stay fed.
i was wandering long before this, how so many people starve, since today when the camp ran out of food when i was 10 and the wild food was bare, was the first time i had starved in forever.
I'm pretty sure people worry a bunch about wasting food instead of staying full and then die by failing to eat. Just feed yourself properly, it isn't hard.
@Grim
just played, didn't really notice a huge difference. just you can't rely on your city as much for food if there isn't someone dedicated to keeping things running smoothly
Yeah if you're actually producing food its fine. in my last game i wouldn't have noticed besides that it's good to wear clothes again.
I hated living naked in deserts and jungles anyway. We for sure need full length robes that protect you from the desert though.
as far as being an Eve: it's easier to find a spot, you don't need to be near a desert now, you just need to find an area with a good amount of wild gooseberries, soil, and water. Instead of all of that + desert
though I starved earlier today for the first time in a long time, because i was a child and the village ran out of food and wild berries were picked clean, I just played a full game, and it wasn't any more difficult.
I was never one of these people obsessed with optimizing or living in the desert, I just keep my food bar near full and use yum. Since I actually contribute, i don't feel too bad about it.
I really like that there's cause to wear clothes again and that we're not all living in the desert
Finding a spot with both water and soil AND desert or jungle to stand on was way too damn difficult. Finding a good spot with both soil and water and enough wild food to get started was already frustrating enough without every civ being in the desert.
wow I just starved at age 10 for the first time in like, 10 hours of playing. But I mean, I should be starving at least _sometimes_
Village was out of berries, ran north at the last minute to live in the woods like i always do, already picked clean, just didn't find shit, dropped dead. Sad, that village needed my help. i assume the whole place just collapsed, because berries were out and there weren't really other food and were like 10 people. [yeah, at least like 5-10 people starved within a minute of me.]
but see I still don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. Because that place had caught rabbits and wheat and no one was making pies, I was going to grab some squash and get stew going (had other ingredients) but ran out of food before I could get to it. That village really deserved to starve, even if i wish i could have gotten there 5 minutes earlier to save them.
I suspect running the sheep pen will become a full time job in larger villages because you will need so much more thread.
Well, this actually works with something that i've been saying, which is that mutton pies need to stop being a byproduct of compost for food balance, and that sheep should produce poop when they go from shorn to unshorn.
The problem i saw with that was that then thread is a byproduct you end up with a bunch of, but if we're colder all the time and clothes is more necessary, that is worthwhile.
this change happened for everyone right after the update right? Just because now I find it strange I could have possibly played a game without noticing this, but my last game I played old families were not having kids and when i done all the dead adult son lineage were eve.
Still, i never found playing in the green prairies to be that difficult, but other people refuse to. It is way too damn difficult to find a home when it needs to be in the desert or jungle and also near soil and water.