Posts by Crumpaloo

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Potjeh wrote:

It's a pretty good chance it was the same player. But it's not about that village. It's about every village. The more people out there that know how to compost, the less expert players have to spend their time on compost instead of diesel wells.

If its just a matter of more people knowing how to compost then i got a way for parents not to have to teach their children how to make it: https://onetech.info/624-Composted-Soil

Too many new players try to rely on asking people to teach them when they could just teach themselves. Why should anyone be inconvenienced by someone who doesn't want to seek out pre-existing knowledge that can be found with a few clicks and a search away? When i hear someone say "im new" i dont think of it as someone whos gonna benifit my village, i see it as a chore thats gonna cost me time and resources. I dont hate new players, i just see the fruitlessness of them being in my village.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Potjeh wrote:

Yesterday I had a baby boy who said he was new. I showed him how to tend berries, he did a couple and then starved. I had another baby boy, and he said he's the same guy. I continued to teach wheat and carrots, and he did some of those but then starved. Then I had a girl who was the same player, only this time she didn't starve. Instead I managed to teach the entire compost cycle, and when I respawned in that town two generations later there was a huge wheat farm and plenty of carrots so I could easily spam compost for milkweed and I made like eight buckets.

Im not sure if you can prove it was him who did it but even so a player that already knew how to do that could of just made wheat and carrots while you were teaching that new player, probably could of had a farm of that size established as he was just starting to grow his first plants. I think what im trying to get at is that time is precious so wasting it just to teach a new player how to do something that 10 potential babies already know how just seems counter intuitive to the game itself.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

While i do admit asking the new players if they are new is probably a bad a idea if they end up dying its not that hard to find out other ways, you can tell someone is new just by looking at what they are doing for about 30 seconds. In the time it takes a noob to do something useful you could have already had a better kid and done something twice as useful.

Also Matbat, ironically enough i died to a roleplayer BECAUSE i was teaching a new player, i made a whole post about it and it got alot of attention, now i know its not a common senario but the fact it happen has really left a scar on my feelings towards new players as a whole.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

This post is sort of a social experiment just to see what people think about what im gonna say.

In short, if you have a kid, and that kid says they are new, dont feed them.

Reasons to not take care of a noob:

1. They know how to do either nothing or the bare minimum to keep themselves alive

2. They constantly waste food

3. They will kill players who kill greifers

4. They are more likely to grief

5. They need to be taught which takes time from the people that know how to do important things

6. They can doom your lineage if they are the only girl

7. They forget to feed their babies

8. They very rarely do enough to outweigh what they dont do

9. They are extremely accident prone meaning

10. They could be taken care of for 3 minutes as step on a rattle snake right after wasting the mothers time and food

In general new players are useless, and a strain on resources, not being mean those are just the facts, if you got any reasons as to keep a new player in your village other then greifer fodder im all ears.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Alias wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
Pip Value affects Pip Efficiency, Pip efficiency is NOT affected with how many, uses,bites,or even number of the same food you have. One gooseberry flat out is more efficient then a cooked fish, you dont gotta add more uses, bites, or number of them to make it more efficient then a cooked fish, thats because the base pip value affects the pip efficiency of a item, NOT how many items,uses, or bites there are.
Define your "pip value". Because bowl of popcorn and bowl of turkey have the same pip value and popcorn is more "pip efficient" specifically because it has spread it across more bites.
This is because pip efficiency is determined
Also, what do you mean when you say improved? Are you talking about the efficiency of the food itself, if so just decrease the pip value of each bite of turkey to do that, and if were only changing the pip value of the turkey itself, and assume that no other variables would be changed, like the output of pips overtime, then yes lowering the pip value of the turkey would make it more pip effeceint and thus save more pips overall.
Definition is simple: with other things being equal better food is the one that provides more calories to civilization, keeps bellies full, saves from starvation, lets families live longer than onworse food. Your solution to lower pips per turkey bite does EXACTLY the opposite, just to raise your counterproductive "pip efficiency". Don't you agree? Removing pips from food makes it worse. You really think people would survive longer on pre bonus turkey? Really??
You keep dodging question about removing +2 flat bonus. Jason created it to make our lives easier, made all foods instantly better. But you know better? By your standards he made it worse because he decreased "pip efficiency" of every single food. So does more pips (aka less "pip efficiency") from flat bonus make our lives easier or worse? By your standards pre bonus turkey is better than post bonus turkey, which is totally ridiculous.
Anyone else thinks that the flat bonus makes all foods worse because it decreases "pip efficiency"?

Ok first i just said that bites, uses, and number of the items doesnt effect its pip efficiency so idk why you are still bringing that up, secondly when im talking about pip value im talking about when you pick up whatever food item it is and click on your avatar, im NOT talking about the total amount of pips that a single food item can give.

For the turkey you said that no other variables but the pip value would be decreased, so if you still got the same amount of pips at the end of making the turkeys then like i said before yeah it would be worth it because it would, changing anything else but the value of the turkey would be changing another variable which is what you said you didnt want so idk what your trying to prove here?

But seriously trying to imply that i think the pip efficiency would outweight the cost of decreasing the amount of pips in a food makes no sense. Decreasing the pip value of ANY food outright and changing nothing else is just losing pips. Sure the food would be more efficent but it doesn't matter now that you have just decreased it from its original value. Same scenario with Jasons flat bonus, wasteful or not those are free potential pips, and no other factors being changed its hard to understand why you would try to assume that that would be a bad thing. I never thought it was, nor claimed it in the first place, you did, so trying to assume i believe that when you yourself made the point in the first place has no merit whatsoever.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Alias wrote:

It thing Loss Aversion is a factor here, both for food waste and yum loss:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion
You may tend to prefer food A that causes less waste than B even if after loss B gives you still much more. And so marginal factor is blown out of proportion.
@pein, what's up with corn and cows? Where are cows? Each life in mid or high level town there is no cows. I spend more and more lives getting it and teaching people but it seems no one does it.
Cow allows you to turn corn not into 4x3 pips popcorn, but into 10x14pips milk (at worst). Why people don't do it?? With water even single person can turn one corn plant into 1000+ food.
@Crumpaloo
We are not going anywhere with this. Claiming that beans let you produce more food is just false. "Soil or not" is statement of ignorance. It takes double soil, hoe, space and water to match output of (pop)corn. That's huge difference. One corn plant yield can be split into different uses: raw, popcorn, stew, milk.
You don't choose skim milk because it looses you pips from the start. Good. You don't choose beans over corn for the same reason: its less pips from the start.
Do you think flat +2 bonus makes food better or worse? It makes all food less "pip efficient". Still I say it makes it better. What do you say?
Finally: it's not debate how to split fixed amount of calories to max efficiency, because foods don't have same amount. Some are ridiculously powerful. Popcorns 4x3 is perhaps best allocation of 12 pips, but it's totaly trumped by brute power of milks 10x14. "But popcorn is more efficient..." no, it doesn't matter. It's efficient in use of 12% of what milk has to offer at worst. Wow. Silver lining at best.
I will choose 10 buckets of milk over 10 bowls of popcorn any day. And I will put it next to berries for kids without batting my eye. It's just better use of corn despite at least 10 times more going to waste. That's sheer power of more pips and uses. Less pips has zero power.
With other things being equal better food is the one that:
Gives more uses.
Gives more pips per bite, NOT less. Less is never better. Never.
No food can be improved by decreasing its overall pips and not changing anything else. Show me otherwise and I switch side. Turkey is 8x19 pips. Huuuuuge waste hmm? Improve this food by only limiting its pips.

Pip Value affects Pip Efficiency, Pip efficiency is NOT affected with how many, uses,bites,or even number of the same food you have. One gooseberry flat out is more efficient then a cooked fish, you dont gotta add more uses, bites, or number of them to make it more efficient then a cooked fish, thats because the base pip value affects the pip efficiency of a item, NOT how many items,uses, or bites there are.

Ironically enough if you were to try to split up a item to increase its pip efficiency you would first need to decrease its pip value which is what i said earlier is the only thing that affects pip efficiency . If you were to then take away the amount of bites,uses,that you splitted up the previous value into, the item would still be more efficient then it was prior to being split up.

This is because pip efficiency is determined by the pip value of a item, NOT how many items,bites,or uses the food itself has. you could have 200 pips worth of food divided into 2 pip foods, and a single pip of food in one food and that single pip would still be more pip efficient then all of those pips combined. I think you are confusing the total number of pips a item or number of items SAYS it can give, and the pip efficiency of a food itself.

Also, what do you mean when you say improved? Are you talking about the efficiency of the food itself, if so just decrease the pip value of each bite of turkey to do that, and if were only changing the pip value of the turkey itself, and assume that no other variables would be changed, like the output of pips overtime, then yes lowering the pip value of the turkey would make it more pip effeceint and thus save more pips overall.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

pein wrote:

no, we plant stuff, based on soil usage and water usage, if you got no soil, will be no food, if no water, same thing
you can make compost, lot of people don't know how or don't want to
mangos were out when they increased them for 1 bucket per regrow
now they are ok, people still don't make it after they got the newcommen well, generally cause others don't do anything
you don't grow the food for yourself, you grow for the kids
and if you plan a strategy you just assume the worst
i seen kids grow hair and the first thing she does is to bite into a pie with 1 pip missing
why is it a problem?
an adult could raise a few more kids with that pie, and during a famine that exact berry you overeat would save a person
reliance on berries: if your city has 50%+ reliance on berries than nobody will do anything significant
you need to explore? you die if you go far
no packs? no food to get packs
no packs to get food from wilderness
sure people say oh there is enough compost or enough dung or enough pies
but when it changes, they still do nothing about it
having yum is ok, it saves a bit of food, even prevents overeating, also as i said, variety is needed to recognize a crysis but not to die to it
corn is annoying cause they can eat raw then it is a loss per soil
beans got a 2 minute window to use bowl on them for green beans and honestly not that great food
and if goes dry you get 100 bean seeds which will be planted everywhere, then a few more and more ad more, its like a plague
i tried the other day, i made 4 sets of bean burritos, and i had to eat some of it to keep working
and i don't know what happened to rest, they ate it way too early
for noob Hope, who walks around the city, until is 14, then stand near berry bushes munching berries with 5 kids, then runs out to swamp and dies to first boar and born back to one other girl, then does this over and over, doesn't matter what else can she eat
80% of population is dumb, you still got to keep alive 1-2 noobs
so more use is good when stationary, when going out to explore, ofc that mutton pie is best
now i don't mind to waste a bit cause i make up for it, plant it back, use up excess, without the work, the food wont make itself
so for convenience i eat berries or carrots or pies early
but i wont care about yum either
i make 6 bread until you find that burdock 100 tiles away
i make 4 pies and a compost until you eat some green beans
if all weirdo food would be on a dining area i would do it, if im closer to berries i eat berries, i still plant mangos or other stuff around if a lot of population is there but if its only me i don't care
carrots vs berries
varrots are faster and produce 35 pips
berries produce 30 pips
carrots use up hoe
and people forget to pick it but they love to water it
each carrot going to seed is a waste of time
each seed going to decay is a waste of soil
berries are better only cause of this, yet people leave one on it either because old myths or to lazy to fix it, and they don't know what to do cause no one tells them, not enough baskets, not enough bowls, not enough buckets, no soil, no water, bad infrastructure, etc.
you need to be efficient so others can survive
wasting soil, wasting food kills of the family line, learn to be efficient every single game, even if you got a lot, you will end up in a tight situation other game and your greed wont work
those who werent eves, don't know how to keep alive a family all alone
that's why efficiency matters, i had 12 kids and i kept the ones who could stay put and say f, i let the rest die
everything worked fine
you either teach noobs or let them die, letting them run around unsupervised is same as wasting food and resources

Thats what i dont understand about new players, this game took me barley 5 days to learn all i needed to know and yet i still got people asking me how to smith, newbies need to watch and pay attention to whats going on, you can only craft with whats in your hand so it shouldnt be that hard to follow the carrot on the stick.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Alias wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
Alias wrote:
Popcorn is not so glorified because it gives so little per bite! If it gave 4x5 it would be much better than current 4x3 which at the same time would make it less "pip efficient".
Popcorn is better than green beans because corn plant gives more food and in more bites than bean plant:
6 bean x4 food is all you get from whole plant = 24 food.
From corn plant you get 4 ears, each ear can give 4 pocorn bites, each worth 3 food = 48 food. Double what bean plant gives. That is the reason.
EDIT: If beans gave 16 bites per plant like corn, but still each bite would be 4 pips vs 3 pips from popcorn, you think beans wouldn't be better choice just because popcorn means less waste? Of course beans would be better, because even with considerable waste they would give more food than corn. Not 33% more, but more. And more is better.
The more pips food gives per bite the better is the food.
The more pips food gives per bite the worse it's "pip efficiency".
When you equalize bite/portion count you get from food all that matters is raw pips: the more the better food is, and the worse it's "pip efficiency"
Conclusion: The better the food, the worse is it's pip efficiency".
Well i dont doubt that increasing the value of a certain food for the same amount of effort is a positive, even if you are losing pips that would still be free pips if it were increased. As for the whole popcorn vs green beans thing, the pips you get from green beans can actually be made faster then the pips for popcorn. This is because of a couple things:
1. greenbeans grow in 4 minutes, and corn the same, however to dry the cob takes another 4 minutes which by then another set of green beans could already of been done
this put them both at about even produce
No it doesn't. It requires additional soil, hoe use, space, water,effort. You play down key factor of corn success.
2. because greenbeans require no steps to make them edible unlike popcorn where you need to shuck the corn, put it in a bowl, go find a fire, then pop it, it gives green beans zero down time between being fully grown, and ready to eat, making them produce food faster then popcorn with the down time on popcorn itself depending on how fast the guy making popcorn would be.
But that all being said id still probably pick popcorn because of how hard it would be to waste the food.
Really? That's why? If popcorn gave 4 pips per bite instead it would be less attractive to you?? Would you also pick skim over whole milk because of how easy is to waste food from whole milk?
For high pip foods, its not that they are actively bad foods, its that they are inherently wasteful because of how many pips one bite contains and several uses of a high pip pie are only gonna multiply that problem.
We don't minimize environmental waste in this game. We maximize calories intake. That's why less calories per bite is worse than more. We both have 10 empty pips you eat all your popcorn and now have no food plus you wasted 2 pips and broke your yum bonus. I eat my mutton pie, wasted 5 pips but have ton of food more. Yes, I wasted more, but it is you who will die of starvation. Your last words can be "my food was more pip efficient".
Good food is max food per bite and max bites per "package". There is no room here for "less pips per food is better" unless it comes from "more bites per package".
Bonus question: would you choose any food before +2 flat bonus over its current version? This bonus made all foods less pips efficient right?
Your reasoning is exactly the fallacy i want to deal with.

Soil or not green beans just takes less time to produce more, and i think ive said it already but dont make skim milk if you are gonna lose pips. Also when comparing the efficiency of a food you would want to have multiple eatings over time to figure out the average waste of each food. Trying the scenario you want would be like putting motor oil in a car that needed it, then directly after measuring its performance over the course of 5 seconds. Efficiency isn't something that happens instantly with the wave of a magic wand, its a repeated signs of improvment over time so trying to compare like that looking for instant results is only counterproductive and misleading.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Alias wrote:

Popcorn is not so glorified because it gives so little per bite! If it gave 4x5 it would be much better than current 4x3 which at the same time would make it less "pip efficient".
Popcorn is better than green beans because corn plant gives more food and in more bites than bean plant:
6 bean x4 food is all you get from whole plant = 24 food.
From corn plant you get 4 ears, each ear can give 4 pocorn bites, each worth 3 food = 48 food. Double what bean plant gives. That is the reason.
EDIT: If beans gave 16 bites per plant like corn, but still each bite would be 4 pips vs 3 pips from popcorn, you think beans wouldn't be better choice just because popcorn means less waste? Of course beans would be better, because even with considerable waste they would give more food than corn. Not 33% more, but more. And more is better.
The more pips food gives per bite the better is the food.
The more pips food gives per bite the worse it's "pip efficiency".
When you equalize bite/portion count you get from food all that matters is raw pips: the more the better food is, and the worse it's "pip efficiency"
Conclusion: The better the food, the worse is it's pip efficiency".

Well i dont doubt that increasing the value of a certain food for the same amount of effort is a positive, even if you are losing pips that would still be free pips if it were increased. As for the whole popcorn vs green beans thing, the pips you get from green beans can actually be made faster then the pips for popcorn. This is because of a couple things:

1. greenbeans grow in 4 minutes, and corn the same, however to dry the cob takes another 4 minutes which by then another set of green beans could already of been done
this put them both at about even produce

2. because greenbeans require no steps to make them edible unlike popcorn where you need to shuck the corn, put it in a bowl, go find a fire, then pop it, it gives green beans zero down time between being fully grown, and ready to eat, making them produce food faster then popcorn with the down time on popcorn itself depending on how fast the guy making popcorn would be.

But that all being said id still probably pick popcorn because of how hard it would be to waste the food. For high pip foods, its not that they are actively bad foods, its that they are inherently wasteful because of how many pips one bite contains and several uses of a high pip pie are only gonna multiply that problem.

Basically the more pips in a certain food, the more you have to lose from someone wasting it. Compare a mutton pie to one piece of popcorn, if someone refills only one pip with the pie you've lost a net of 14 pips, on the other hand if someone refills only one pip with popcorn the popcorn only loses two pips. Thats 7 times the potential to waste a pie then the a piece of popcorn, so if you got a bunch of noobs in your town and they are just eating anything they can find. would you want them scarfing down on the pies or the popcorn?

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Sure, the rabbit carrot berry pie gives out 20 pips in four bites, and the rabbit carrot pie gives out instead 18 pips in four bites, and while it may look like the former would be better because it gives more pips it might as well be a over glorified version of the rabbit carrot pie.

This is because of a couple of reason:

1. Foods that advertise to replenish 20 pips can only at most do 19 because of the way your pip meter works so your actually losing 1 pip no matter how you eat it

2. Most people dont eat with 1 pip left remaining just because of the risk having a fatally low pip meter comes with, i asked and most people say they eat with 4 max and 2 min

Those two reasons alone drop the pie pip value down from 20, to 19, to around 18 which is you guessed it, the same pip value of the latter rabbit carrot pie making it a waste of not only time, but resources as well.

Popcorn Vs. Green Beans: Popcorn is pretty much all your hearing about these days, but green beans are practically identical in almost every way, they even have more bites then a popcorn and more pips overall yet popcorn is the go to snack for most kids in a village.

This is because kids need less pips then a adult you wanna minimize the amount of food they could waste, popcorn fillls this roll by giving kids three pips while the green beans gives four instead which intern increasing the chance that the food will be wasted by 33%.

That all being said the amount of uses a item has (or bites) is alot less important then the value of the item itself. You could have a hundred uses for a 1 pip food but so long as the value of that food is one pip all those uses dont mean jack. Its only until you raise the value of the food that the uses then start to have any meaning. Therfore because the lower value of food a pip is the harder it is for someone to waste the value of its pips, it would only make sense to produce the fastest to make, and lowest valued food in order to get the most return on investment no matter how many uses it has.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

In general Jason needs to take a step back from giving cavemen radios and address the current issues as they stand, we all know what happen with ARK: Survival after all. The developers kept updating the game with newer and newer content, never stopping to optimize to squash bugs that each release created. Only with OHOL its not bugs that are the issue, its mechanical anomalies, there should never be a point in your game where content you create is actively ignored because of the mechanics that you create. Potatoes are pointless, locks are used for greifing, and the apocalypses is without purpose.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Alias wrote:

I think that "pip efficiency" should be important factor only when deciding what food to eat, not what food to make. All it means is "overeat as little as viable".
When producing you want to make most total calories at the least cost (least time, ingredients etc). By this standard berries, popcorn, milk, mutton pie, turkey broth are great foods to make and indeed they are, while they have different pip efficiency. When producing, "pip efficiency" could only matter in edge cases and specifically when comparing foods that give different amount of bites. Actually I cannot right now think of any such case where pip efficiency decides which food is better to make.
Also, what pein hinted, there is the matter of time. "Pip efficient" food is basically "time inefficient" and time is the most prescious resource in this game.

Ok well lets look at a hypothetical situation, say you have one fish for 20 pips, and now say you also have 4 berries which would total up to 20 pips. Lets also assume that the time it takes to get either food choice is little or not varying at all. Because of the pip efficiency of the berries you equally feed four people with minimal chance of over-feeding, however because the fish is so in-efficient you can at most only feed one person, and because no ones gonna wait until they have one pip left to eat food you are most likely going end up wasting more of it. Now lets bring it back in, lets say that now fish take 10 seconds to get and berries take 12.5 seconds, even though the fish requires less time to make, the berries are four times more efficient then a single fish. My point is the game can say your getting a 20 pip fish, but in reality your getting a 1-19 pip fish. Same thing with berries, your not getting a 5 pip berry, you are getting a 1-5 pip berry, the only difference is the margin of waste in berries is ALOT smaller then a fish. So you could be making as many mutton pies as you want, but as soon as kids start eating your pies, or lazy villagers take a second bite of that 15 pip pie you may not notice it, but it does have a bigger affect then you think whether its directly noticeable or not. I think its the fact that you cant see just how much people are wasting that makes it so easy to sweep under the rug.

That being said do you not take a second bite of a pie when its already in your hand? I do, it saves time and i dont feel like putting down one food to just eat another to save pips. My point being if im being really stingy about being effective with pips and still doing this, what does that say about new players and vets who no doubt have done stuff like this for eons? Not bashing anyone im just making a case for what i beleive to be a genuinely good idea.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

So i made a post not to long ago about the efficentcy of foods and my conclusion was that sauerkraut was one of the most effeceint foods in the game, (popcorn meta aint got nothing on kraut, fight me). Anyways after coming to this realization i thought what better way to prove my hypothisis then to make as much as possible until i die. Thus began my life in a moderatly well village.

Had to pretty much make everything from scratch, that involved getting the kraut board and masher, firing and making crocks placing soil, tilling, getting seeds, planting, watering, the salt was actually pretty easy since there was a tundra right next to the village and the actual process of making the sauer kraut took the shortest time to get done. By the end of it i made 8 crock pots filled of kraut goodness, i coulda made more but my original intent was to make just 8 and seeing as i succedded in doing that i just decided to take it easy for the rest of my life, well almost.

The photo above is of me a little bit after completing all the crocks, the person in the appron at first was a little annoying asking me if i was someone but actually helped out a good bit in making them so for that im thankful. I also got around to making another food i thought was efficient with pips being bread. although it was not even close to how much kraut i made.

At about 50 i ran up to the berry farm to see what people were doing and found people muching on the berries, at that point i had a idea to test another hypothisis: How often will someone eat food near the gooseberry farm instead of the berries themselves? Turns out its actually really well, i started out by bringing bowls of kraut to the edge of the berry farms urging people to start eating them instead of berries. People caught on pretty quickly and started eating them, so with the bowls being eaten up i was making frequent trips back and forth trying to get sauer kraut to the farms as fast as i could, lest the beast revert to their primitive ways. i mange to keep them fed at the berry farm for quite a while. Only 2 out of the 10 or so people i saw were eatting berries, most people were actually pretty good about eating alternative foods near the farms themselves so yeah its actually a pretty good strategy. Couple pointers though for doing this:

1. Place the food facing the center of town, its very rare a baby or noob will be on the outskirts where theres less to do so putting the food only on the side closest to the center of your town is alot more effective

2. Try to make food there as convenient as possible, i had to get bowls from the bakery 20 tiles away so it was kinda hard to keep up with the demand, im sure if i had make the kraut right next to it i woulda had a smoother time.

3. Tell people to eat your food instead of the berries, this is to mainly help the new players that automate to eating berries, and also introduces them to alternative food sources

4. Stick around for a bit after putting the food down to see and correct if anyone is still eating the berries, sometimes someone might of been two screens away to hear your message, so sticking around to catch the baby boomers can save you alot of trouble

That being said this was actually one of my best lives in a while, no one was killing eachother, tools and food was fairly plentiful, and everyone had clothes lol hope to find a village like this soon.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Did a update the post

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Alias wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
The thing about milk and skim milk is that as far as i know its the only food item where you have to add something to it to get less pips out of it. So with all of other foods needing to have something added onto it to make it contain more pips (buttered bread,pies,stew) it doesnt make sense to compare the milk/skim milk mechanic to the rest of the foods as you are taking a direct and obvious net loss in food by making skim milk where with others like adding muttion and wheat will get you a net gain in potential pips...
Quite the contrary. You create skim milk by taking out cream of it after it separates. So those lost calories go into butter.
Skim and whole milk are good example because of their similarities. If by same proces you can get food giving more pips or food with less average loss you should go for more pips obviously.
If sip of whole milk gave 20 pips it would make it only better even though each sip would be a waste. There is no downside to it. None at all.
Same with cooked fish: the fact that it gives 20 pips is its strength, just lowering to any value would never make it better.
Giving little per bite on any food is never an advantage. More bites is, less per bite is not.

Ok hold on, all the phrasing up until now had implied to me that you were putting cream or butter into the milk to make skim milk, but that not being true now it makes more sense to me. In all honesty though i gotta say that the yum bonus for buttered bread really isnt worth it, and the pips that get taken away from the whole milk isnt equal to the amount of pips you get out of the butter making you actually lose pips. Thats basically the same as wasting pips by eating food that you dont need that much of so no it wouldnt be logical to try to make buttered bread unless you had nothing better to do.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

So last life i and my twin decided that turkey was the new meta and to do nothing but hunt for turkeys out whole lives to end world hunger. So we got two horse carts, a backpack, and a couple of pies and set out.

By the end of it we had gotten 9 turkeys in total, mind you that each turkey gives around 240 pips in total we added it up and got around 2,232 pips in total for our village, so it was safe to say we werent going hungry for a while.

As we got back and started cooking the baker was in disbeleif, exclaiming how he now had ran out of a job as there was simply too much turkey and pies to try to make any more.

We started cooking and cutting up the turkeys when all of a sudden, another players bow and arrow "slipped" and landed in my chest, my twin manage to kill him but by that point it was too late, but none the less i was proud to have helped my village.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Pip Efficiency is a term used to describe the chance that a food could be wasted.

Example 1: Villager A is hungry for 10 pips so he eats two gooseberries, because the berries are 5 pips each he has not wasted any pips.

Example 2: Villager B is also hungry for 10 pips, but instead of eating gooseberries he goes for a muttion pie, because the pie gives 15 pips per bite the villager has wasted 5 potential pip.

In the first example the villager has eaten 2 berries to refill his 10 empty pips and so no pips are wasted, in the second one however 50% of the pips in that bite of mutton pie are wasted because the player did not have 15 pips or less empty.

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So in short the most efficient foods are the ones that give the least amount of pips, this is true since there is less of a chance that a person would eat food with such a high hunger bar and thus are less likely to waste pips on a food that does not give that many.

NOTE: Your player has 20 pips when fully grown, as a result you can only eat at most 19 pips in one bite, this will be useful for later

Examples (From Best to Worst):

Popcorn: Popcorn is the only 3 pip food option that can be reliably made, making it technically the most efficient food in the game currently

Bread: Bread, while not as efficient, is still lower then average with 8 pips making for a fair alternative to popcorn in some scenarios

Pies: Pies are some of the most filling foods in the game, and justly the easiest to waste, with up to 20 pips this food at times can waste a pip no matter how hungry you are, because your character can only have up to 20 pips once grown, they can only eat the food with one pip left otherwise they will starve to death, this means that you will be guaranteed to waste at least one pip, and with it being so filling its likely more then that will be wasted.

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However just because a food is efficient when eating it, that doesn't make it the go to food when you consider the other variables.

Effort: The more steps it takes to make something the more worth it will need to be to want to bake it in the first place

(Example: Tacos require alot of resources and time to make, so as a result people dont make them as often since they arent worth it)

Convenience: If you're village is doing something that creates a byproduct you can work with to make food

(Example: Compost cycle creates a byproduct of mutton to make into pies)

Storing: How much of it can you store in a tile

(Example: Pies are amazing for food storage since they can be stored into baskets, which can then be stored into boxes)

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Might edit this post later with updates but for now i want to ask you a few questions:

1. How many pips do you normally have when you start eating?

2. What food do you eat the most?

3. Are you a new player or not?

(Update): Alright so i calculated the average of all your post and the number came really close to three, but since there are no foods that give half pips i either had to round up or round down in foods.

Rounding down i found that sauerkraut is actually a pretty good food. With 6 pips per bite if you were to eat three bites worth you would be full if you were just a 2 pips hunger left, the average minimum hunger most of you told me.

Rounding up bread, eatting two bites of bread will increase your pip meter by 16, which will completely fill you up at 4 pips hunger left, the max average you all told me. However if you are under 4 pips of hunger you will need another bread which could end up wasting alot of the bread so just know that.

Last thing i wanna talk about are combo foods. Combo foods are basically two foods you would eat one after another to fill up your pip meter, heres a list of combo foods for reference:

.Cooked mutton + Gooseberry

.Cooked Mutton Pie + Popcorn

.Sauerkraut + Turkey Broth

.Bowl of Green Beans + Bowl of Stew

The basic idea is to disregard the efficiency of food entirely by using several foods to fill up your hunger. This guarrentees that if you watch what you eat in combination with other foods, you will never waste any food at all. Only problem is that instead of just scarfing down whatever food is closest to you, you are going to have to be actively thinking about how much each food gives you to make sure you dont waste any food. This slows doing your eating alot and is not good if you are trying to do stuff thats out of town where food options are not so varying.

In short you really wanna have a food or structure of foods that can end up giving you 18 or 17 pips.

Might make a update talking about the yum meter and how it affects this but for now id just like to hear some feedback...

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Alias wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
No, with skim milk specifically you would be putting more effort in for less food, now that im thinking about it it really comes down to 3 things:
. The effort put into making the food (for example sauerkraut requires alot of steps but something like a bowl of popcorn doesnt )
. The chance that a foods pip will be wasted (Pies are really bad for this and popcorn being the lowest pip food are the best)
. Pip/Tile Ratio (Basically whats the maximum amount of pips this food can be stored into on one tile)
The thing with popcorn is that although its easy to make, really effecient, it cant be stored into anything, as a result it has to be spread over multiple tiles making it a clutter, pies are the most effective storage food, only problem is that they require more effort then popcorn, and are one of the least effective pip giving food out there.
As for popcorn I don't get it: you leave it in bowl for others to get yum, no additional clutter.
As for milk, forget butter/cream for now, lets say whole milk just turns to skim milk. Would you ever make bucket of skim milk instead of whole milk, because skim milk means less food wasted on average? I know I would not. The only reason then would be yum. Even if it means more food wasted, whole milk is better, because you at most waste part of food that skim milk never had in the first place.
Its like saying "I don't want to be rich because if Im robbed I can lose more money than if I'm poor" (a bit simplified).
Your list needs more points to account e.g. for food created from byproducts of necessary process. Raw mutton pies are byproducts of composting plus water. This is huge factor why they are so awesome and common.

I just meant that popcorn as it is in a bowl cant be stored in baskets or wood boxes that would help it from being strewn all over the village.

The thing about milk and skim milk is that as far as i know its the only food item where you have to add something to it to get less pips out of it. So with all of other foods needing to have something added onto it to make it contain more pips (buttered bread,pies,stew) it doesnt make sense to compare the milk/skim milk mechanic to the rest of the foods as you are taking a direct and obvious net loss in food by making skim milk where with others like adding muttion and wheat will get you a net gain in potential pips, theres also a underlying issue that now since you get more pips in each bite theres a higher chance to have some of those pips wasted making you question whether you should of even made the pie in the first place if a certain amount of pips just ends up getting wasted anyways.

Really i just tried to make it as to the point as possible but i might make a actual thread later to elaborate on it so watch out for that.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

No, with skim milk specifically you would be putting more effort in for less food, now that im thinking about it it really comes down to 3 things:

. The effort put into making the food (for example sauerkraut requires alot of steps but something like a bowl of popcorn doesnt )

. The chance that a foods pip will be wasted (Pies are really bad for this and popcorn being the lowest pip food are the best)

. Pip/Tile Ratio (Basically whats the maximum amount of pips this food can be stored into on one tile)

The thing with popcorn is that although its easy to make, really effecient, it cant be stored into anything, as a result it has to be spread over multiple tiles making it a clutter, pies are the most effeceint storage food, only problem is that they require more effort then popcorn, and are one of the least effective pip giving food out there.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

I think its gotta do with the potential to waste rather then actual waste occurring, 20 pip foods always waste pips because you only have 20 pips at most, so if you tried to wait till all your pips were gone to not waste pips, you would just starve to death before you could eat it. That and most people arent gonna try to do any math for how much food they should each in a specific order to save the most pips when they are on the brink of starvation, as a result the higher pips a food gives, the better the chance some noob will eat it all 20 pips to return one pip of his own hunger. At that point any effort you put into getting that fish is now worth 1/20th of its original value because of how it was used at the worst case senario. But while i do agree that more effort shouldnt be put in to produce smaller foods, theres definitely a threshold for a effort to waste ratio that cant be overlooked.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Basically just different whistles that attract different animals. This would help draw horses that were left untied to a fence, and bring back sheep that got out of their pen saving the food required to feed another one to full growth. This could also have a sort of anti-whistle that when blown draws animals away from the sound like dogs and bears. I also think that mosquito spray and bear spray would be nice, basically you would make some sort of primitive pump that would go through a spray nozzle that would be filled with whatever kind of spray you want, then when the pump spray bottle is full, you grab it and click on whatever you want to inteact with. For moquitos this would kill them outright, and for bears it would just sort of daze the bear and make it run away.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

lionon wrote:

You're mixing up things tough.
Well to assign an operator with a direction, yes you need the bell. This has nothing to do with triangulation tough. Again, the only thing you get is the distance between the other two towns... this helps you how?
And as usual you are very stubborn on the strange ideas you once set in your head.

Already said how it helps read the post above, and for what im talking about its a combination of both.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

lionon wrote:

Except there is no reason to travel form village to village. Surely you can make up one like "well restart on another place... because of griefer".. or so.
But honestly there just isn't. Also there is no reason to trade.
Also the point is, for your triangulation idea, you don't need no f*** radio. You suppose people have a bell but need to told over radiotelegraph to ring it???

Ok for triangulating villages there are a couple reasons. If a place needs to get repopulated because that town is dying the other town can send over someone to help. If you leave it to chance for a eve to spawn nearby you basically playing the lottery with your civilization at that point. There is also the idea of mapping or graphing neighboring villages. This while not mind bogglingly important allows to at minimun get a basic understanding of villages nearby, and on a large scale create a entire map of villages so at some point you can predict where eves will spawn in the eve spiral.

Yes, for this to work you do need a radio, in order to tell which radio operator is from each village. If you dont know where someone is talking to you from, they are gonna give incorrect information, and as a result completely ruin the whole idea of triangulating other villages, at that point your better off disregarding the whole post.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

lionon wrote:

This way I don't get what the info how far the other two towns are from each other would help you.
If at all the other way around would be more sensible, if you know all 3 sides of the triangle (by them telling you the third over the radio) you could calculate the exact angle. Still wouldn't know how the triangle is positioned tough.
PS: Building a road to another time is with or without radio useless. If it's close they are 2k away. I've never seen a town live that long to get a 1k road...

Basically the idea is that by knowing the distance of the three of these towns you have more information to build on, and while i agree the person could tell you how far away they are from the other village, you would need them to tell you how far away they are from the village that just rung the bell, and then they would have to tell you in moorse code how far away it was. Considering the rate of error this could produce and that its very rare anyone can expertly translate moorse code its much less of a hassle to just enter the already known information in the automatic calculatior which only takes about 15 seconds to copy paste the info in.

The whole build a road thing i stll think is a good idea, if there is anyway to lower the time it takes to travel from village to village, even if the road is not fully complete, even a fraction of a road in that direction cuts off double or even quadruple the time it takes to reach for as long as someone is on the road, and after a while it adds up.

Crumpaloo · Main Forum

Requires:

. 1 Transmitter

. 1 Receiver

. 1 Bell Tower

Steps:

Step One: Use The Transmitter and in moorse code say "-... . .-.. .-.."

Step Two: Ring the bell in you're town

Step Three: After the bell is rung, go to the transmitter and say ".-. .. -. --. / -.-- --- ..- .-. / -... . .-.. .-.."

Step Four: Record the distance and compass direction of their village

Step Five: Repeat this with another village

Step Six: Use both the compass directions of the villlages to find the best estimate for the degrees apart from either of them

Step Seven: Go to this website: https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculat … osines.php and enter in the distance of both of the villages from yours as the side of the triangle and then enter in the estimated angle of your village in relation to the other twos directions.

Step Eight: At this point you should have the distance the two towns are from eachother, Now you can go into a graphing program and enter in the distances of each village from eachother to create a triangle on your graph.

Step nine: You have now triangulated your village location in relation to other villages nearby and vice versa. You can share this information with the villages you were just talking to, or keep radioing for other villages to find more and more to make a sort of map of other villages.

Note: Because the direction of the bells can only be seen as basic directions (N,NE,E,SE,S,SW,W,NW) You arent going to have a 100% accurate distance. At most the measurments are gonna be off by 11.25%

Tips:

. Create "Callsigns" for each village, for example start each message from your village with 2 long beeps and 1 short one, and then have the neighboring village do something similar, this ensures that multiple villages communicating to eachother wont be confused as to who is talking to them and vice versa

. Make your village have atleast 2 distinct features so that way later down the line if people visit your village they will be able to tell which one and thusly how far they are from neighboring villages using the method i just showed you.

. If a neighboring village isnt too far away, consider communicating both of them to start building roads or atleast a road tile ever 1 screen length to make it easier to not only go from village to village, but to make it easier for eves to re-populate both of them should one ever die out

One Hour One Life Forums

#251 Re: Main Forum » New Players Bad for Villages? » 2019-01-17 01:09:51

#252 Re: Main Forum » New Players Bad for Villages? » 2019-01-17 00:45:28

#253 Re: Main Forum » New Players Bad for Villages? » 2019-01-16 23:42:58

#254 Main Forum » New Players Bad for Villages? » 2019-01-16 22:55:29

#255 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-16 21:36:15

#256 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-16 17:03:37

#257 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-15 19:04:37

#258 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-15 17:38:37

#259 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-15 15:19:20

#260 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-15 11:59:16

#261 Re: Main Forum » Things in OHOL that doen't make sense » 2019-01-15 07:44:27

#262 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-15 07:04:51

#263 Main Forum » Krazy Kraut Lady » 2019-01-15 06:21:41

#264 Re: Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-15 01:09:45

#265 Re: Main Forum » "Advantage" of fewer pips food. » 2019-01-15 01:08:08

#266 Main Forum » Turkey Twins » 2019-01-14 18:51:08

#267 Main Forum » Pip Efficiency » 2019-01-14 15:53:40

#268 Re: Main Forum » "Advantage" of fewer pips food. » 2019-01-14 15:08:41

#269 Re: Main Forum » "Advantage" of fewer pips food. » 2019-01-14 11:33:46

#270 Re: Main Forum » "Advantage" of fewer pips food. » 2019-01-14 10:24:58

#271 Main Forum » Animal Whistles, spray » 2019-01-13 16:44:57

#272 Re: Main Forum » Triangulating » 2019-01-12 21:14:30

#273 Re: Main Forum » Triangulating » 2019-01-12 18:18:05

#274 Re: Main Forum » Triangulating » 2019-01-12 15:49:57

#275 Main Forum » Triangulating » 2019-01-12 14:46:47

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