a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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RodneyC86 wrote:MrChuckleteeth wrote:Hi MissImmortal!
It's a shame you cannot play as Eve as often as you'd like anymore. Unfortunately, that doesn't excuse your recent behavior.
I saw your last stream (here's a link to the video): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/432336870##
Not only did you excuse your griefing by saying you were bored and had to find some "entertainment for yourself", you also went about the rest of your stream actively undermining what others had worked hours for.
So quit your whining and your immature behavior, if you don't want to play this game, then get out and don't come back. Don't pretend like jason or anyone here "owes" you anything, and certainly don't be delusional enough to use that as justification.
Quick Edit: I can see Spoonwood is trolling in this thread too.
Yikes, and this person held up a veneer of appearing like a decent person in this post. Psychopathy, sorry to say
According to Wikipedia, "Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits." https://archive.is/sDmAD
MissImortal, griefed on one evening so far as we know. So, I don't think it's fair to characterize such as psychopathy, since a behavior occurring once does NOT make such behavior persistent.
That remains to be seen. The seeds are there. Fair enough.
Wasn't there a part about psychopaths usually being charismatic on the surface?
Hi MissImmortal!
It's a shame you cannot play as Eve as often as you'd like anymore. Unfortunately, that doesn't excuse your recent behavior.
I saw your last stream (here's a link to the video): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/432336870##
Not only did you excuse your griefing by saying you were bored and had to find some "entertainment for yourself", you also went about the rest of your stream actively undermining what others had worked hours for.
So quit your whining and your immature behavior, if you don't want to play this game, then get out and don't come back. Don't pretend like jason or anyone here "owes" you anything, and certainly don't be delusional enough to use that as justification.
Quick Edit: I can see Spoonwood is trolling in this thread too.
Yikes, and this person held up a veneer of appearing like a decent person in this post. Psychopathy, sorry to say
I played two lives yesterday as a ginger Pu. Supposedly there was a large city nearby, and we had a few visitors during my second life [he seemed peaceful, was stacking firewood near the main fire with his horse cart and fetching long shafts] but I stuck to our small camp both lives. Not sure if the same area or camp though.
First life, I made all the iron tools [when I was born we had only a hoe and an axe], and mined a vein nearby for a haul of about 18 iron. We also got the sheep pen built during the end of that life. Was cut short by a twin griefer after I confronted her about repeatedly stealing the forge plates. I berated her in front of most of the camp, so she shot me and stupidly tried to claim I did it/it was an accident.. lmao. Nobody bought it.
Second life I was born to a Pu from the same camp out rabbit hunting. She brought me back to camp, and I watched as the twin started sniping people from behind an oak tree in our camp. Wasn't big enough to grab bow yet, but made an arrow and managed to direct a brother to shoot her behind the tree. Unfort she already killed like 3 people, and her twin got another bow/arrow and killed the avenger before starving.
Shit's wack I guess, family's fault for keeping twins and not bothering to react quickly though imo.. They looked like trouble from the get go. Our bellows ended up disappearing in the aftermath so I wouldn't be surprised if they'd started hiding things after the initial kill.
Second life I got mouflon and set up compost, smelted down all the iron I'd mined, and helped make a few pies. Someone was working on a stone building by the time I grew old. We still had a girl and looks like they lived for another 20 or so gens, so that's nice at least.
suicide kids stink though. Even with the 15-family limit, things still don't bode well in the slightest for outpost families. In fact, they might even be worse now because of it.. since not only do kids who /die out of a city also add anyone from that family who's trying to eve to their skip list, but now, if you leave a family with 15~ members, you're not gonna have fuck all kids because of the new limit also counting you in their numbers lol.
Outposting isn't viable. Eve'ing is rare. We're never gonna get out of mega-city hell.
Sucks to read this one.
How about using population density instead to determine fertility?
There's evidence already at least that densely populated places have lower fertility rates so it's not way out of reality and this will eve camps and outposts. Trouble is balancing though
No one wants to do the dishes
Stand on straw to troll a bear. Straw decays. Killed by bear.
Fffffffff....
This game is about the opposite of control at least at first, you dont chose where you are born you make the best of your life and who knows what's going to happen, do you know in advance what will happen in that life?
I hate the /die function
When you are born irl do you /die because you're not in the place you want to, no you make the best with what you have.
But i do agree that currently the game has to have /die but only to compensate other mechanics that it doesn't have currently.
Why do we have a /die though? Oh right, runners.
Wonder if the pregnant belly was meant to deal with runners, a /die will be construed as just a miscarriage and won't leave bones behind and also can explain why there is no cooldown for fertility afterwards
On a totally unrelated note,
We need to take Spoon out to a bar for a drink. He's such a wet blanket it's hilarious.
Don't worry spoon, we still love you. ?
I like that idea of 50 percent gets spawn near and 50 percent faraway
It's like Schroedinger's cat, but involve neighbouring towns.
It simultaneously exist and doesn't exist until you explore the area.
RodneyC86 wrote:I swear, these bird are evil and are up to something. They periodically show up from their ice holes to spy on us. Think about it, they can go under a hole and not popout again for years!! No animal can hold their breath that long, so...
They actually live in massive highly advanced underwater cities and are plotting to wipe out all of humankind.
So yes, we need a way to interact with these ****ers
In real life, Antarctica is massive I will bet they have a secret base somewhere within the entire god forsaken continent. They are the true scourge waiting to kill us all.
*Bad absurd post*
Plotting to? Civilization is already gone, why do you think were rebuilding it in the first place? Its those darn penguins
Penguins, the real griefers of OHOL
RodneyC86 wrote:Coming here with the mindset to want to live a certain life is wrong approach to this game IMO
People having a certain preference is not and cannot be wrong. Wrong requires something objective, and preferences end up subjective, so a person can't be wrong for having such a preference.
RodneyC86 wrote:I think we all need to be less selfish for this game to work as intended but then that might ask too nuch from certain players...
Uh... you paid your own money for a game. I think that you should, consequently, play on a self-interested basis (so long as you aren't harming others). If you aren't, I have to wonder about your level of self-respect, but admittedly I do NOT know you, so I'm not making a judgement here.
As you said, preference. Life doesn't give you your preference often. But often that's alright. Im thinking this game simulates life very well in this regard, disappointments are part of life.
I was once born into an middling village that is just starting to get it's full range of tools and a new bow saw while I was in my teens. Nice, I started the life wanting to be a cart maker, and intend to scour the grasslands for all the rope myself. The couple of lives I tried to be a carter I normally can gather enough rope for 8-10 carts before I become too old to venture out.
Alas it's never meant to be. The town is dying, no one composting, the well is running dry. And there is no cart anyway to put baskets in to collect rope easily.
So I had to be farmer/baker and make a well first, and compost while I'm at it. By the time my hair greyed out, the town is in good shape thankfully.
I still managed to get around making a cart or two, to the delight of a young boy who was born just now. He was happy and I never felt more proud that. This happy boy won't exist if I just booked right out of the village because I don't want to be in a middling town but a more established one
That one cart I made, was more meaningful than the 8-10 I could have made
Sometimes spoon, being out of control leads to pleasant surprises
All I'm saying.
And me paying money has nothing to do with it, maybe you're right I'm dysfunctional to pay to have control taken away from me, but so long as they don't violate my body and constitutional right , losing control can be enjoyable
I am happy that Eveing is now a rare and special event and not a choice. Eveing should have never been that simple, because the game won´t work if everyone decides to Eve.
I think Spoonwood is simply out of place while commenting about players control in the game, because Eveing is not a feature that you can choose without drastically changing the game flow for every other player. The problem is: we always took it for granted, and griefers showed us that this privilege could be abused ad nausem. This is not about choosing and controling your own game experience, this is about making a choice that affects everyone else in the game. Ergo, should not be a choice at all, imo.
Basically, if you could choose to Eve everytime, you would be choosing for say, the next 20 players in 2 hrs not to Eve. (I am just making numbers at this point).
Exactly, this game is simulating life. And in life, you play the cards you are dealt. To the best you can. Coming here with the mindset to want to live a certain life is wrong approach to this game IMO
I have never ever chose to /Die, only done it once when I had an emergency that needed my attention, even then I typed sorry letter by letter to my poor mom.
I think we all need to be less selfish for this game to work as intended but then that might ask too nuch from certain players, which I can understand, gaming is largely a selfish pursuit (uh oh, pitchforks and daggers coming my way)
RodneyC86 wrote:Imagine each of these eve players sets up new camp every day, if assuming 10 percent, there's only on average another 9 players who will pick up the eves camp to develop it into a town over what 30 generations?, and while doing that, the eve player will continue making new families?
Sure, that's a possibility.
RodneyC86 wrote:The crux of the problem is, people want to eve families that runs very deep into hundreds of generation, but are not willing to play the boring 'endgame' in late generation families?
Nope, I don't see a problem there. Eves can HOPE for a long lineage. That's it. It's not a problem if they don't have one though, since the length of the lineage barely has responsibility to them. The length of the lineage depends greatly on the Eve's children. If they don't want to keep that lineage going, then the family should NOT have high numbers.
In other words, there's isn't a good reason to cut off the choices of an Eve's children for the sake of an Eve's desires. Those children (and grandchildren and great grandchildren, etc.) have their own desires. Them choosing not to play in someone else's family should be their choice and under their control.
Basically, everyone should be able to play as they desire as long as they are not harming others. And no one should force any other player to play as they want them for their own sake.
So, what you claim as a problem, I don't see as a problem to begin with.
Okay, eve players don't really care if their descendents die off early. And vice versa.
It's the classic children Vs parent expectations
An option to empty many of those 'stuck' vessels will be nice
RodneyC86 wrote:wio wrote:Hello!
I think you should be born a girl, which will happen half of the time, and when you have enough pips you should take grab a basket with food and run away from your village.
By the time you're old enough to be an Eve, you should be far away enough from you village that it would be similar situation to having actually been an Eve.Does this solve your problem?
While a good bandaid, there's the issue that most the lands in the direction you came from are combed dry. And people eve to get their surnames (something which I don't get,but that's me).
For the surname problem someone suggested a middle name to make a lineage somewhat your own
Honestly this is a tricky problem, you can't have both many eves and big thriving cities at some point in the game , especially given the current small player base. Jason must choose, and that's a burden
People generally like more control than less control in a game. An example is Rimworld, where you can pretty much control the flow of the game as much as the developer can and people don't complain about that. Each move towards less player control is likely to decrease the playerbase, and I think also that more control is likely to increase the playerbase (assuming everything else equal/ceteris paribus). So, I think bigger thriving cities could also be compatible at some point in time with something like an Eve button and the spawn mechanics before swords got introduced.
This is not an argument against giving players more control. But something has to give.
If we have many eves, we are spreading out many seeds for big towns to grow right? I am quite certain all eves hope their camp will eventually turn into a bustling city (I could still be wrong)
But there's the issue if lets say even 10 percent of players vastly prefer to eve.
Imagine each of these eve players sets up new camp every day, if assuming 10 percent, there's only on average another 9 players who will pick up the eves camp to develop it into a town over what 30 generations?, and while doing that, the eve player will continue making new families?
The crux of the problem is, people want to eve families that runs very deep into hundreds of generation, but are not willing to play the boring 'endgame' in late generation families?
Worth a thought
MissImmortal wrote:What does everyone else think? I hope this is solved soon.
~MissImmortal
Hello!
I think you should be born a girl, which will happen half of the time, and when you have enough pips you should take grab a basket with food and run away from your village.
By the time you're old enough to be an Eve, you should be far away enough from you village that it would be similar situation to having actually been an Eve.Does this solve your problem?
While a good bandaid, there's the issue that most the lands in the direction you came from are combed dry. And people eve to get their surnames (something which I don't get,but that's me).
For the surname problem someone suggested a middle name to make a lineage somewhat your own
Honestly this is a tricky problem, you can't have both many eves and big thriving cities at some point in the game , especially given the current small player base. Jason must choose, and that's a burden
Hello!
I haven't played in about a month, and I've come back to find out I can't Eve!!! Eve'ing is my FAVORITE thing and really one of the only reasons I play. I will rarely play to be in a developed town. I hear Jason has decided Eve'ing isn't great and made is so rare that it's not worth it to /die and try.
I won't be playing this game until this is fixed, since Eve'ing is what I enjoy the most. I'm truly disappointed that this has happened. It feels like the attempt is to kill enjoyment for this game for many.
What does everyone else think? I hope this is solved soon.
~MissImmortal
I think generally his vision is that eve-ing shouldn't be a common thing and civilization building is the central gameplay. So you might be out of luck if you are playing solely to eve
I swear, these bird are evil and are up to something. They periodically show up from their ice holes to spy on us. Think about it, they can go under a hole and not popout again for years!! No animal can hold their breath that long, so...
They actually live in massive highly advanced underwater cities and are plotting to wipe out all of humankind.
So yes, we need a way to interact with these ****ers
In real life, Antarctica is massive I will bet they have a secret base somewhere within the entire god forsaken continent. They are the true scourge waiting to kill us all.
*Bad absurd post*
Tarr wrote:I don't really consider a box downgrade anything more than dead content. It's 1.5x the milkweed requirement, more iron tool usage with saws being one of the easiest tools to break, and is a strict downgrade.
There's nothing to vouche for the things in a game that could be classified as a tedium simulator. Swapping from two clicks to one click for less space (or more depending on if you right click through the whole thing vs just clicking what you want) is not useful at all.
These are without a doubt useless and if people,see slot boxes they should turn them to sledges and take the thread for a second box.
Without decaying baskets you should never have to worry about baskets and if you do either grow some wheat or take a cart to the local prairie to make,some.
See this is where I think the strict mentallity of 100% efficiency doesn´t work. It´s a game. If we wanted 100% efficiency we would probably only eat pies. If I wanted 100% efficiency I would be working at home not playing a game lol.
I agree, the slotted boxes I tried using just now. Its actually quite cool i don't have to pick up a basket (1) , set it on ground (2), pick item I want (3) , store item in BP (4) , pick basket back up (5), then bonk it back in (6)
I just take what I want from a slot box c\(1) then store in bp (2), quite a joy to use. so its more like 6click vs 2 click ? Unless I'm missing something and i shouldnt need 6 clicks. with classic wooden box an basket
I know its a small difference in time, pros can do the 6 click sequence in 1 second. My fingers are slow and i typically need 2-3 seconds for 6 clicks. If i use the box 10 times i my life i might spare time to plant some extra milkweeds in that 30 seconds maybe?
But yes, baskets not decaying made this box much more meh than it should really be.. ![]()
Whatever wrote:jasonrohrer wrote:I don't need to hear dozens of solutions. I need to understand the problem.
you made a thread to explain, that you need to understand the problem so you can come up with a solution.
you have the most experience and you can come up with the best solution.at the same time your solution to too much wheat is to make it possible to use string to create baskets.
instead of barrels to store wheat or make wheat stack able (like stone piles), which was suggested by people.To be fair to Jason´s post, the solution to wheat is not to store it as several people proposed. The problem is: theres too much grain unused in the farms. Solution is not to store it.
The basic original problem is: wheat in town is grown for straw mostly with grain as a by-product and not the other way around (like in real life). There will be always a surplus of grain as long as you grow wheat for the compost and not for the grain. Stackable wheat and barrels will end up unused anyways under this analysis.
Easier solution? Make compost craftable from full wheat and straw only. That way you will get compost everytime and grain whenever you need it.
Am I doint it right?
Plausible, or they could let bread stack, or at least let unsliced bread storable. Then people can yoink out one to put on a plate for cutting later. I hate seeing 12 plates of plates of sliced bread sitting in the open.
Or maybe the problem is we are all too anal retentive? (Nah)
RodneyC86 wrote:Hmmm, so if there are 10 pies in it I can make a pie bomb by putting a shaft on it? It's fine, we'll just knife whoever does that repeatedly
I really appreciate what you have done here Jason.
What? It is free distribution to everyone.
Or slotted box of knives, long shaft it, and it's house of flying daggers
Hmmm, so if there are 10 pies in it I can make a pie bomb by putting a shaft on it? It's fine, we'll just knife whoever does that repeatedly
I really appreciate what you have done here Jason.
Inb4 people comment WAAYYYY too many baskets tomorrow
Btw, why can't we lift stacks of baskets? Empty Baskets are not exactly very heavy and empty baskets neatly nestle into each other. Omits need to bring a handcart to go on a basket weaving trip to the swamp.
We can then still keep the decay as was desired by you earlier
I like the slotted box, but as Tarr said, now that baskets don't decay, it becomes suboptimal. Saving clicks is nice though, and I don't need an empty space to lay down a basket to grab stuff
RE: map homogeneity
One reason why maps are fairly homogenous in OHOL is because Jason uses a perlin noise algorithm to generate maps. This algorithm is resource efficient for the server, but it will never quite produce a map that is truly heterogeneous in the fashion that a hand-drawn map is or the real Earth itself is. If you've played enough games, the OHOL map starts to look similar no matter where you go, and that's a feature of the algorithm.
The perlin noise algorithm is also one reason why rivers are impossible for the current game (balance reasons aside), and oceans can come out looking weird (unless you go for an island map).
Yeah I can understand that, it's one of the issues with procedural generation techniques. Not saying it's Jason's fault
So to shorten it into a problem (Jason is a busy man, he wants conscise description of problems rather than solution suggestions)
Maps too homogenous -> towns all follow the same development path > all towns are basically the same and no trade occurs
You guys can grow milkweed. As much as you want. It has no side-effects.
The complaint with straw was that it produced wheat, right? Right?
Yes, but using thread instead is terrible. There is also a complaint that rope is too scarce and I can argue that is a bigger problem . So now we sacrifice potential wooden boxes into baskets? No thank you, I rather keep the thread to make boxes later
FeignedSanity wrote:So, we can make baskets with thread now (not needle and ball of thread, just thread)
Is this confirmed? Because I'm not wasting 2 milkweed on a fuckin basket when I can make them with no milkweed instead lmao. Milkweed's already a constantly wanted/needed item in the current meta, both in early and late game. There's little excuse for throwing it away to make baskets, whether in early game where milkweed is in constant need, or late game when taking a cart and making a trip to a nearby swamp is less wasteful of resources.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if people considered using early-game thread for making baskets as a new griefing tactic.
Agree this is bad all around. Why do we keep choking down the milkweed line. That poor weedy little plant can't keep up