a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
Tarr wrote:Generally speaking you make yourself a backpack and you make others clothes. This way you know the backpack will be useful while making sure the other furs are being useful too.
This is an excellent rule of thumb.
Kind of how like every Jedi makes their own lightsaber.
Agreed on thats a good rule of thumb. Mine has always been, and now even more so, Everyone will experience benefits from clothes, not everyone will experience benefits from using a backpack. There has been plenty of times that someone has given me a backpack, and I really didn't use it for like 30 min or more. Just yesterday someone brought back like 30 iron so I was smelting it all down and making a few extra axe and shovels until someone else needed to take the forge over. An older gent that was going to die soon gave me his backpack because I was "One of the good ones" Well to be honest I didn't leave my 6x6 tile forge for maybe 15 minutes afterwards, maybe 20. I then went to the pen and started making wool clothes to pass out and doing few rounds of compost (also doing the carrot rows planted outside the pen). From 10yrs old to maybe 45yrs old I perhaps only had one item at a time in this backpack, complete waste but at least it stayed in town instead of on a pile of bones in a swamp 50 tiles away?
As far as to specifically the shirt, yeah find some seals way better use of the thread and skins. To backpack vs clothing debate, you'd be more likely to find ruins of a dead town with 20 backpacks then you would a town of 20 full sets of clothes. Reducing food usage, making heat storage and transferring possible, and lessening temperature shock, is way more important than everyone being able to carry food with them. Treat the problem not the symptom.
Had an idea come to me when I was driving home from work tonight. I was thinking about how I really enjoy starting up the groundwork for a camp, making the sheep pen, bakery, tailor (Definitely think this has become a job worthy of a room now?). It's great to have the time to complete these in one life if there is resources at hand. Usually it can be a struggle to establish just a couple major foundations depending on the camp. I feel like either you pop up in a few lively towns that are crazy decked out, or in one of a dozen camps that just aren't going to get there. The ratio of people that are efficient and know how to structure end game towns and foresee layout versus those that can do basic productive tasks like farming or doing a compost cycle is much leaner. With a couple more good nudges they'd have a shot to grow and get their name on the board. If only I had a little more time to get the pump up, they'd last long enough to get a few good babies.
So I wondered how to achieve that within reason and keeping loopholes in mind. Also not wanting to heavily interfere with the in place lineage ban, or to have a cheesy way to get another birther. In an effort to curb greifers using this, I wondered if a group decision mechanic could be plausible. Further still the player would have a choice if they wanted to agree with this group choice. When accepting this choice, spawning back in you know the layout, you know where everything is, you know what needs to be done, you are ready to go. Right out of the gate, as a child you are limited on what you can do. Both by hunger mechanics and certain objects can't be interacted with. So I thought about killing two birds with one stone, you get a shorter life but can pick up heavy objects and ride horses. You are a boy so you can't have babies furthering the line, purely a workhorse to git er done. You are....
Adam
Spawn as a boy
Spawn 15-30 years old. I say up to thirty because you can tweak how much time they get easiest by age of spawn
Must receive 6+ blessings to be eligble You get one bless token per hour like curse tokens. The amount of blessings needed could be tweaked to increase the rarity of this happening. Balance wise - maybe an adam in a town once every few hours
*Must die 55+* Can't load someone up with blessings before they go out and scout or something as a safety. Also if you have been blessed being foolish carries weight, caring for the village is needed to get back, during a famine its the old folks and kids going out first.
Choose Reborn (normal) Reincarnate (Blessed respawn) To give the player the final choice. New full one hour life in a new lineage - or respawn back for shorter life
Once Per Lineage Also works in the favor of; you are trying to hopefully make the camp be a town and last awhile, you get one shot. This coincides with cooldown restrictions aswell. You would still have a chance to be a normal baby in that lineage when your ban wears off but not be blessed again.
Cooldown Can only spawn as an Adam once every X hours. After spawning as an adam you can not be blessed until your cooldown is up. When attempting to bless someone on cooldown it would show up in chat [ "/bless John Doe"] but not be yellow or blue.
At first thought per life, get 8 blessings - get to reincarnate. Got 7 and died, next life back to zero. Then after typing it all out I wondered if it could be possible to have them be player based and raise the amount 15+. Whenever you have enough, if you meet the above criteria, you can Adam in. Always consumes all blessings, can't store them up, better to use sooner rather than later. It would nice to see this be more of a way to give reward to someone doing well, rather than a group gathering everyone bless so and so. Someone sets up a nice pen fast and get sheep going /bless you. Found and tapped and iron vein and have spent half your life hauling it all back /bless you. Man can dream, what do you guys think? Breaks the vision too much? I worry about that.
That's good news and I don't mind naked people grilling themselves in desert. What I think is odd is that there is no place to live without clothing; clothing isn't a necessity for us irl, we do have ideal temperature environments. When jungle was added, Jason said he wanted it to be the ideal biome, makes sense, lots of reed skirt tribes in jungles, but now it grills everyone like desert? I wouldn't mind having one ideal temperature biome to kick off with so we have time to invest in clothing.
And yes that's the thing, it needs tweaking, it's a partial update, there is a disconnection issue; I won't play. I want it fully done first.
We asked for clothing to become important, now it is. To me, it was plenty liveable, just that anyone not contributing is a death sentence. I know you want one biome to viable, but now with clothing all biomes are damn near the same and thats pretty huge. Just now someone needs to be a tailor in addition to smith/farming/sheperd to get a camp off the ground.
I'm not gonna play for a while.
It's weird how everything is in extremes, there are places in the real world where humans can live without clothes or with just a reed skirt on. Those places are our ideal environments where we branched out to conquer less ideal places with different resources and dangers.Humans are not lizards, we have this OP thing called sweat and even animals use this thing called shade to cool off. Or swim a bit. Or hop in a hot spring.
I dislike how heat and hunger connect. We don't eat pies to avoid overheating. Yes, calories burn in cold and water hydrates us, but standing in cold eating food is not how to avoid hypothermia. These should be status ailments that kill you, imo.Another thing is timing, again. New players from China, bam, part 1 of heat change in. It's like when Jason nerfed ground iron just before Steam release.
It's the easiest way to translate that adapting your environments temperature to suit yours increases your chance of survival. In my opinion shade just got put in. If I am fully clothed and run across a desert, I won't overheat. If I run across a desert naked I start overheating immediately. We have been asking for ages to make clothing affect hot climates, well rather making clothing just simply bring you to middle perfect temp, it changes how fast the biomes temp affects you, very clever way to make it more accessible without making too simple. Needs some tweaking but very viable way if what was intended. Also rather than just moving temp to median, fully clothed you consume relatively the same amount of food no matter where you are. The rate does indeed seem a little fast, but 24secs/pip under perfect temp before really is a long long time, but only when at perfect temp. I'd take 15sec a pip fully clothed in all biomes over the up and down we had before.
Did some testing after my second life in the camp died and I was a guy so could just do what I want till I died of old age.
Fully clothed every biome lost roughly the same pips per sec 8-9sec per pip. Jungle and Desert started off there but rose to 5-6sec pip, but still felt actually pretty close.
Temperature takes much longer to soak in, and clothing affects this. I noticed that when naked crossing between biomes my meter would go from one end to the complete other instantly. It was when wearing clothes that the shifts were gradual, and noticeably longer. Going from a fire to cold spot when fully clothed took 45seconds before equalizing to the natural temperature of the biome. Also crossing into a jungle or desert from a cold biome took 35-45 seconds to have the meter stop moving
Fully clothed on green tiles (forest) on a fire was perfect medium temperature, not really a significant change to pip per sec, maybe .5-1 sec more than fully clothed no fire.
It felt like there was a lot to forage off of, but that could have been RNG. When hunting all the rabbits I needed to make a full suit plus backpack it felt like I had plenty around to keep me going. It just felt like I didn't need to eat a ton just sitting there in the grassland as opposed to the forest. Once I had full clothes it didn't seem to matter what I was doing, hunger drop was very stable. Traveling through biomes barely fluttered the temperature meter because there wasn't enough time for the biome to affect my inner temp unless I stayed there for 30+ seconds.
Again the most surprising that once you have clothes, standing near a fire barely changes pips/sec even though on the meter you are going from [----^----X----|----] to [----|----^----|----]
^ represents temperature, so about a quarter to maybe 33% towards full. So basically, build a fire asap, get some clothes on people, and chances go up exponentially go up.
As a lot of us would have guessed, the update that featured mainly bugfixes and no new tech has brought another wave of "Can we get X" "When are we getting Y" "Can we add to this area of game play instead of this area" threads. Nothing wrong with that, input and feedback is great. But I do think patience is key, that a lot of the things we have asked for have a chance to make it in, but it takes time. Perhaps if we understood the time process for implementation it would maybe curb some of these posts/feelings.
Jason - When you begin work a new addition, a new idea, how much of a design phase does that usually encompass along with time to implement into the game? How long is your testing phase, is it ONLY self tested before going live and how long does that period last? How often are things shelved/tabled versus scrapped?
I ask these questions because weekly updates is a very ambitious for a single person. It very well could take 1-3 weeks of creative process, 1-3 weeks of making sure it doesn't screw up the engine, 1+ week of testing solo (do not underestimate how very few hours this really is, this is why obvious bugs like yellow fever removing fatal wounds make it in the game - way too much to test for one person on a sizeable update) The jungle biome update was potentially being worked on for a couple months or more before it hit. Granted this might be much less than what I am speculating because of a single dev, when you start adding a lot of people to the mix forward motion can slow down, but depth increases. Large developmental teams will often begin work on an addition such as a new character or map 3-6 months ahead of its release to assure a polished project.
Regardless if Jason chimes in, and regardless of what his answers are, don't be discouraged. If after much deliberation items such as expanding the base tech tree, and making multiple paths so each biome has its own thing (igloos and seal food, desert clothing, bog iron, vine ropes) ends up in the game, it could take 3-6 months to get in safely. It could still happen, just have some faith and patience, be subjective and concise, and don't forget to have fun with the game. Some things added are never meant to be viable and worthwhile, they are meant to just be fun and cool (looking at you radios)
I had a life similar to this. Most things were being taken care of, although the camp wasn't progressing super fast. The layout of the camp looked like it had limited time, probably wasn't going to make it super far lineage wise, so I opted to backpack and cloth anyone that came through. There was a savannah that had more rabbits than I ever seen just a few biomes over, so I went to town. I kept a stash of thread and needle to the side, anytime I had a kid I would cloth them head to toe and give them a backpack and let them know they get the full suit at 0yrs old because they were my children, and the rest got to pick from the pile. When I was 58 I asked my granddaughter if she would carry my torch, I had just enough time to show her the savannah that held all the rabbits and to make sure she rotated when it was just the family rabbits and take care of her kids, make them care. My dying words were good luck, and the last thing I saw was "Thank you grandma I will always remember how you took care of us, and do the same."
I felt better about that life than any other and I spent 40yrs just catching rabbits and making clothes, making sure every kid I had damn near before a name had head to toe rabbit furs and a backpack.
I can't really help but think that if there was more "full time" jobs such as Hunter/Trapper that people would totally be down to spend a life doing it. At the moment whenever you focus on one task, you eventually hit a wall with the question of "how useful is this really"
I wasn't making an April Fools joke. Your last comment especially indicates that you don't believe that players on the main server won't take the steps to eat different foods or learn to do so.
There is a higher chance that they won't than the will, when dealing with chances especially when hoping for the smaller chance to get a reward, you are gambling. The math could be done but I would guess that 1-2 people eating these foods without the yum bonus would make the food not worth it. One guy that forgot to eat sooner and is scrambling and eats the wrong pie out of rotation, and now that berry pie takes a nosedive to how much theoretical food can be offered. Needed the whole village to coordinate foods available and foods eaten in an unorganized group of players on the big server sounds like a nightmare. I can barely keep dirt near a 4x4 berry patch without someone coming up and tilling it for random carrots making some 4x6 (some rows 5 and some rows 7) mixed planted monstrosity in the middle of the village. It's too much work that needs even more work to be taken advantage of, some things sound great on paper, but should stay on paper.
Both berry pies and potatoes are good foods. Sure, potatoes cost shovel charges, but just convert how many dug graves you see in a main server game into potatoes.
You should take a second to acknowledge that statement. One, on paper, yes if you were to stop every single grave from happening and for those uses would equate to a lot of food. But, you are not going to stop every grave from happening so you would have a split between graves and potatoes, which I doubt would be a clean split, and would most likely end up being more shovel use than if we never planted potatoes until Jason fixes them or gives us a tool that is solely for potatoes and graves such as a trowel (digging a grave with a trowel sounds like a military punishment though) Secondly, you will only exacerbate shovel/iron use trying to make potatoes work in a settlement that is not communicating on discord or something. Thirdly, you are better off using those shovel uses for other things and that iron for other tools. Rather than converting graves into potatoes in your head, convert those graves to compost piles, way better use.
CrazyEddie wrote:very hard to find using the default zoom level.
tired of players whining about the zoom level.
the zoom level is fine.
the world of OHOL is a grid, how hard is it to move in a straight line. sure, there are obstacles to route around, but it's just as easy to count how many squares you have been pushed off the original path.
The problem is that if you ever need to travel in a non linear fashion, such as going around a jungle biome due to mosquitos, it becomes that much harder to see bread crumb trails. To have a fullproof line of "markers" they would need to be so close together that you'd be spending so much of a single life just to do so. All it would take is someone moving a flint because they don't know what it is, or decide they need to use it, and all you have is a line instead of an arrow. It's the equivalent of rotating a road sign so it says safety to the right and danger to the left. Is it impossible to move in a straight line and account for obstacles, no. Does it throw guesswork into the mix, for sure. As tech levels rise even further and civilizations grow, there will already be plenty of difficulty to continue to tech up and thrive, artificial difficulties such as relying on bread crumbs or storage can be frustrating.
Home markers currently "stack" in that if you make a new marker, it only overrides your previous marker until you dig the new one up. So then you can head back home.
Would it be possible for the marker to show up without having to dig up the newest marker?
Say you have three markers, Home Mid-Point and Iron Vein.
When near the Home marker, you see the arrow for the midpoint. When you get in range of the mid-point marker, the nearest marker to mid-point would get an arrow, either Home or Iron Vein. This is most likely not probable due to when you get just out of range of one marker, that would be the nearest and the arrow would move back. Could be intuitive though, head in the direction of the iron vein away from Mid-point until the vein is close enough to get the arrow to switch away from previous marker to the marker you were heading to.
Remembering paths isn't too terribly hard, but getting others to find them is much harder. Bread crumb trails can work easily enough but are not foolproof because there isn't a standard and its much harder to designate diagonal directions. Combine that with the standard view, not using zoom out, and navigating is perilous. Adding visual clutter like having more than maybe two arrows at one time I don't think is desirable as well.
as the submitter of this bug i accept this explanation.
After that response 99% its coded that way, 1% need to die of old age on shrooms to verify, 100% will be happy with pretty much all design choices Jason will make.
EDIT* https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1181
Definitely has to be coded that way as it has happened under the same conditions between many updates. Well played sir, well played.
Jason is here.
But he also has to do the actual work of getting an update out every week. And there still are 50+ reported bugs that need to be fixed. And dozens of emails coming in every day that need to be answered.
And he also has a family. And he took some time off for the holidays.
And he's trying to have a balanced life beyond just working on this game and thinking about it every waking moment.
So, given all of that, "interacting with the community" has taken a bit of a back seat.
I'm trying, but it's really hard to balance it all.
I personally want to say thank you for your time. I can easily see that you are putting in extra hard work to keeping connected with us, evident by this post itself, and the fact that your latest news update HEAVILY includes thoughts and information from the community, even going as far as directly naming two.
To everyone else, he will stop by and post when he can, he is reading, this game is his current mancave/work of passion. He's not going to disappear for weeks, give him time and don't derail intelligible thoughts with nonsense like iron nerfs etc. It's very clear that if we are constructively discussing mechanics and doing excellent data gathering (amazing work Thundersen) on these forums, we have an opportunity to be a part of creating this game. Crying for attention will not have that same result.
Part of me wonders if the map was made smaller, and the spirals not as far, that eventually we the players would need to reset the map simply to renew the resources. Griefers would attempt to do it sooner to take down progress, but eventually it would need to happen anyways, so it wouldn't be so negative.
It seems like people are really upset about the apocalypse because it feels like a tool that only serves those with negative intentions. If it had a dual purpose maybe it would have more of a place in the game.
I thought when he was reintroducing the apocalypse it was going to be some difficult end of tech tree item that required crazy stuff like a diesel engine and other hard to make items. Instead we got something incredibly easy to collect with the only difficult part being can your lineage last long enough to see the end? (hint: It can't.) It took me one attempt to put up an apocalypse endbase in an Eve camp and one single attempt to collect all the endstones needed for the apocalypse while hiding them away from a town.
I am little surprised at this as well. Given that we just got machines an all I was picturing some sort of mechanical doomsday clock, not a voodoo-esque sacrifical totem. It's like 50 times harder to make a car than to bring about the end of the world, not having it compete with resources I can see, but making the difficulty artificial with the timers is really lame.
With all the changes what is the purpose of playing? You are playing a waiting game until the girls /die the lineage to death and that's their choice.
I'd rather him just remove the lineage ban on old age deaths to allow people who want city lives to keep playing in their cities just as players who like early game can just /die until they get what they want. I personally only ever started Eve chaining because of the lineage ban in the first place, if it wasn't there on old age you would be getting rewarded for good play vs wasting resources for a different cause of death.What went from passing down an axe to your grandchildren became passing your hopes to the next family and now it's wait for rng to kill your dreams.
I'd have to agree with some points here. Every tech update goes further and further out, but a lot of recent updates have made it much harder to get to those points. Now with the Eve changes even a determined player willing to commit a few hours in a row can't experience any continuity at all. Personally I don't understand fully the war against towns. Why spend the time designing and implementing cars if 80% of your players never get to see them? I get that it should be challenging to succeed, and that going from an Eve to a civ should be no small feat. But this never ending running around struggling to stay afloat also gets boring.
I can't even imagine what people would create if they had the chance to. Full on cities with 3-4 lineages in them, each with their own home building. I want to see cities with stone walls around them, littered with plastered housing. Right now there is no point in even beginning projects like these. It will never last long enough and it would be too hard to find when it dies out. Seeing designs like pein's car workshop is really really cool, but then it becomes sad when the chances of a car actually coming out of one is so damn low.
A bunch more time passes as the town grows. Brown haired girl says the town is boring. Several times. I say "maybe you're the boring one" she says "maybe"
I knew that daughter was no good... She kept coming up to me saying its boring when I was in the middle of restarting the compost cycle. The town was loaded full of stuff, could have gotten a car going easily if everyone was doing their stuff. Sad to see the lineage cave because of the murders, I was the eve that spawned into the dead town and restarted it, tried to name all my kids Jake StateFarm but only got state as a last name so it didn't continue long.
I was born to a family that lived in the tutorials. All of a sudden, the adobe started to collapse from age and all the snakes got out!
Note to self, Make knife early and kill all the snakes. Every child I have will wear snake boots. I am StateFarm and you are all jake. Together we will outlive the boots line, because ours are made of snakes.
You need a pen in the first place
Cant have compost without a pen? HA GOT YA!
You posted that while I was typing my post. New bestfriends?
Didn't even think about the fact that every other method of pens, aside from ungodly fences *hint*, require a shovel use. Adobe compared to the rest can be carried very easily, Backpack plus a basket is a lot, throw in a cart and you are a mobile thread producing, hipster hat doling, pie envy hancho of the town
About the shovel for reed stumps, depends on how much iron the eve camp has access to. If they already opened a mine and thus have plenty of iron, yes go ahead and dig up all reed stumps you can find. If iron is still in the scarce early start please no, this usually breaks the shovel in no time, breaks compost etc.
Cant have compost without a pen? HA GOT YA! Nah for real not saying dig up all of em you can see, but if there is say 12-15 reed stumps sitting right there that are about to disappear in 15-25ish minutes and your closest reach to sheep is a carrot seed sitting on an empty tile and 6-12 berry bushes planted, you be DAMNED sure I am going to dig up all those stumps before Karen can bury 10+ kids that died of sids with that shovel yo.
Wood stumps aesthetics, well if you can dare to have them that one hour, just let them decay instead. Plaster walls for function... well if you want to make a dedicated smithing house, etc. yes. far enough. For basic function the oven base does it tough, everything else is aesthetics.
Eh the problem is waiting that hour can kill the progress and the design. Too many post it notes, not enough actual change. Going further into this, basic function just a forge surrounding by forge stuff makes that area the forge, but it will never be respected as the forge with floor walls, bearskin and multiple chests. Just as a bakery with walls lined with chests that the second an empty plate is in sight is sorted and used, will always exceed the output of a 2xAdobe mess two tiles from the baby bushes. I was in a town once that had an adobe oven in the worst spot. Like omg. the worst spot. There was barely any pies around because of the clutter. I started to just lay down flooring telling everyone "this will be new bakery" When I logged in the next day and popped up in MY bakery, I damn near cried. I was there because it was still there. It was there because it kept people there. Because it was laid out well, had adequate storage, had walls and floors making it aesthetically pleasing, other people wanted to maintain it, were happy to do so! My daughters were jazzed to be IN A BAKERY, not just mindless bakers. Don't discount aesthetics considering every time you take on something that's scope is past your lifetime, you are essentially a salesman, nay a realtor, trying to convince someone to invest their time into it.
I am a firm believer in trickle down balance, almost reganomics in a way. That by having the top end of the spectrum balanced and engaging, all tiers beneath it will also be that. If you make the lower end of the bell curve easier, players at the higher end experience no challenge at all. Trying to reign in ways to exploit this curve just leave plays feeling awkwardly constrained and penalized. In a game based off leaving things behind, imploring those invested to teach, you want you playerbase to surpass the median. Its not a competitive ladder that you want 35-45% of your playerbase to be at this rank, and the top rank is 1% if the playerbase. Jason wants us to all be that 1% but it will take a lot of community help to get there. We are also one step above the coworker example. People are paid to be at work, people paid to be here. Granted they paid for a luxury item, and may not want to take it seriously, but I think more side of wanting to care and be productive.
Ending side thought...I wonder... if the playerbase shrank because the game became to trivial and the game didn't change to compensate, would you inevitably have to pick those roles more often?
I see, well we agree that digging up wood stumps is a waste of shovel.
About the value of plastered adobe walls in late game... well okay, I guess we can't argue about the value of aesthetics.
PS: Reed should be farmable IMO.
With you on the farmable reeds. Also not about aesthetics, plastered walls dont decay, which is the strength of them. Digging up wood stumps is good if you just straight up need to use the tile or ... for aesthetics. I am hereby challenging your disposition, and am saying that adobe into plaster walls are for function, and that wood stumps are for aesthetics, and that neither are useless. Only are very specific in their application.
pein wrote:and dig out the stumps, check how many baskets you got and dig 2x as much adobe
this is invaluable resourceWhy dig out stumps? IMO you just wasting the shovel for little output (firewood).
And why adobe once you get already a pen there is little use for it.
**Halfway through typing this I realized you didn't understand what he meant, reed stumps not wood stumps. Reed stumps can be dug up with a shovel yielding adobe)The stumps eventually disappear so if you do nothing you waste adobe. Yes it does use the shovel but then you engage the argument of Shovel>Unknown amount of time to source adobe. Also you are forgetting that adobe fluctuates between high value, no value and very high value throughout an camps lifetime. The very high value mark = walls. Plastered adobe walls my friend.
As to to the original post, having some basics ifs/ands to your approach is never a bad thing. I personally think it should be more abstract
1) Is there any bottlenecks to progress that need to be handled (rabbit for kiln, sheep for compost)
2)Is someone else attempting to fix this? 2a) If No, do task 2b) If yes - will doubling up be advantageous or am I just getting in the way of their flow?
3) Is there a better time to produce X good?
My number three goes with your point of "Are there any alternatives that complete the same desired outcome" but slightly competes with the clothes thing... Is it a good idea to have everyone clothed, umm duh unless your are in a desert or jungle most of the time why would you not. Is it a good idea to make a bunch of clothes when your thread is predominately from milkweed and not sheep? Please die.
I want to embrace, but at the same time distance, from quantifying work vs time. Somethings just really end up being a lifetime worth of work that you can never really see the fruits of, or get praise for. If that is appalling to you, turns your gut, then I implore you to question why you play this exact game. Also if it were to become commonplace for people to balk at tasks that consumed "too much of their lifetime"or "Doesn't last long enough" the game would get up and fold itself twelve times right before the simulation would collapse onto itself. We need selfless warriors that don't question the length, work/time, Importance,girth of a product, and simply ask "is someone doing this yet? No, okay I am gonna do it so much that my grandkids won't have to worry about this shit"
Like where your head is at, but just feels a little strict with the value system. We should be talking about guildlines. How soon into a civ should you realistically have an axe and shovel plus maybe like a hoe. How soon should you have sheep. When do you transition to rubber/horse carts.
To break that down a little with some example scenarios
"When you have a 3x3 or 4x4 berry field completed and have a few rows of carrots ready to go, you should have a pen nearly done or in progress or you are cerealsly effin up
"After the bushes are planted but before pies we should have axe/shovel/other tool"
"When we have stable compost and pies we should be making rubber or we are sitting here with our thumbs up our butts"
These are all framed this way because they are still questions of mine, that would be neat to have answered otherwise I will figure it out ![]()
This is a two fold problem honestly. Devoting an hour to playing a game, ignoring ALL distractions to maximize this hour, is starting to not become the norm. Cloud saves and multiplayer jump in at any time has conditioned us to believe that every shred of time spent should be progressive. To have an event that very well might take a steamy number two on the hour or so you just put it into the game has become a negative to be changed, rather than part of the game that is enjoyable. This double knife scenario is prevalent here because a margin will never be happy with " Guess I am the baker this life because no one else is doing it" and will always want to say " We failed because person XYZ wasn't doing ___ while I was doing what I wanted to do"
The imposed difficulty of eve camps as mentioned is pretty minor. I myself have felt triggered during times when I am going ham, my one and only child at the time is watching me work instead of doing stuff. Like really, standing there watching me holding an adobe was more productive than letting me solo fire 12 pieces of pottery and getting the charcoal afterwards, instead of putting down soil to start berries. Doubling up on basic tasks usually is a time sink, one that eve camps can't push past if too many occur.
As Pein said, better communication would help, but shit, I have to come out and say, instead of people telling you what to do, how about you teach yourself more. Know what to do when you scan the town and see berries and carrots going down, and just go get some stone or adobe and make the pen real quick. Instead of hauling the tenth basket of banana's go make a damn rope, attach it to a stake and get the rabbit fur we need to make a bellows. Communication is key only when the end goal exceeds the common place view of the situation. The game is not complex enough for the expectation that a larger amount of the player base can be productive without a play by play.
I of course would LOVE (LOVELOVELOVE) to see some base tech branched out a bit. Since when did people skip over iron tools going from stone to steel, umm never it is actually a landmark for industry to conquer that gap. Am I sad that is glossed over, yes. Am I happy with needing less levels of tools overall, YES.
The biggest hurdle right now is that there is a core group of people willing to devote enough time that any time something new is added it is explored top to bottom immediately. In less than a calendar year, over 650,000 hours have been invested into the game. Lets break that down a bit. In a year there is 365 days at 24 hours a day totaling to 8760 hours in a year. So we as humans have invested 74.41 years of playtime in roughly 11 months of acutal time into this game. No one man can provide that much to curb the easiness that comes from mastering a subject.
When there is more to do, the game will naturally become harder. When advancing tasks are conquered, the workforce (if productive members that will take a bullet), will shift into sustaining tasks, lessening the difficulty curve. Latex lords, taco kings and Stew masters are carved out in minutes rather than through a legacy. Once you have made enough tires to make 6+ carts and you still have 25 minutes left of your life, what the heck else are you going to do? If you care, you'll make sure there is enough pie for 1000 children to feast, or you go poke a bear and see how many people you can stab before someone finds the bow you hid in the forest. To me, both problems are solved when there is more tech, so therefore whether it be deep or wide, anything is welcome.
The thing that can trigger it is dying of old age in the tutorial with a home marker down. A new eve has a chance to appear in your base, which as the eve can be confusing, as you experienced.
I've always thought it would be funny to have a successful town out of the tutorial areas. There is a good deal of resources in those things, many boxes to convert to carts, full sets of clothes, iron, rabbits. Might have to do that one of these days...
Boots line is the proof the game actually is too easy in the late game, when the "no girl" issue doesn't happen. The game DOES need to get harder as the gens go on. Imo, getting to gen 50 or something should be pretty hard, and not because of the "no girl" issue. But let's do things in order. First fix the no girl issue, and then if lines last too long, i'm sure Jason will find ways to increase the difficulty in the RIGHT way.
In my opinion the difficulty is higher tech to spend resources on, and time on. When you reach the end of the current tech, which isn't hard to do, you just end up adding to surplus which gives you a cushion for when something like the compost cycle breaks down for 5 minutes. Rather than dying out, stocks just get low for a second and then come back up because there is nothing to do but make food and roads. So when there was limited things to do, the thing to do was to have a lineage go on forever.
Take the early blacksmith for example. If they are also the source of gathered iron just furthers the point. While they are scouting/gathering iron, hauling it back and then either smelting or going back out, they aren't producing food. You as a civilization are funding that person via food to get this for the village. If they complete this task and there is no further task, they just move into to producing more food than they can consume, to the surplus.
To completely eliminate this I actually don't think is possible, or should even be done, because its the true end game. At some point it should be easy, and generations of kids should be able to do whatever they want for their whole life because of the hard work done by those that came before them. Sounds little too familiar eh? Is it too easy to get to this point right now? Sure. Is it something that needs to be addressed? No, it will naturally evaporate as it becomes more complex to get to the next resting point.
It's not a vendetta, I am not framing you at all. Your point of view is that the only way there is disagreement is a lack of understanding. Using sarcastic remarks to dismiss valid points rather than engaging them is insulting, albeit not the highest form of it. Never once have I misunderstood you, simply I don't agree. I have attempted to discuss certain points couple occasions, but you ignore them and hinge onto the basic disagreement principle and tell me I just don't understand or haven't read what you posted. I really do want to have meaningful conversations, but that will be hard if you don't respond fully or typecast me out with this vendetta nonsense.
This specific example, no it wouldn't hurt normal players really to have babies be able to wake bears, but it's also not a really big issue as many has stated. As wolfgang said, its about everyone being able to do something without restraints, because as soon as you start to implement them, its a slippery slope. Sometimes things are ruined not by the unchecked elements but too harsh of checks across the board.
The baby movement speed thing, I am confused.
It will make motherhood with good children more difficult tough if you pop out a baby while standing in a cold biome and having a basket with valuables with you... there is no longer "follow me" to the village. Will confine mothers even more to stay all their fertile years in or close to their village. Including babyhood/childhood and elderhood you only have about 15 minutes of that hour you can freely move as woman.
I agree with this point a lot, when did that change? What is the issue of babies running full speed that needs to be addressed, while having negative impacts possibly such as this?