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#301 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 22:26:06

FeignedSanity wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:

I'm glad you can see our train of thought. Do not forget this game, is still a fledgling game that needs to be promoted at some point and newbies will have to come in.

Although.... its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet. You can do that in real life so why not in game? Remember, though as a newbie, they will instinctively try to draw parallels with that you can do in OHOL and real life - seeing as how Jason even made the aesthetics of having each item being 'physical and present'.

Therefore, It is important to have 'suggestions' on what this storage unit is for. For organization purpose.
Nothing stops me from keeping my shoes on my dining table and my freshly cooked chicken pie in my shoebox conversely ( okay hygiene dont matter in game but thats not the point), but people who come to my house when i say I have food will be utterly confused that I choose to keep my pie in my shoebox.

Or if I say, yeah sure, just go over to my room and grab yourself a shirt you can borrow. They will go for the closet. and not waste time opening the box on the floor containing my old computer spare parts. Efficiency!
I guess you understand by now.

Thanks for the discussion

Edit: choice of words, sorry, English is my second language

I haven't forgotten that new players will come in. I was just arguing that the trade off of having specific storage over universal wasn't worth it. A new player would have to learn regardless of what it was. But now I see the value of specific storage from my discussion with Dodge.

However, the whole "its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet." thing really undermines this. I feel like, at that point, why have it in the first place? If they all function the same, then it'd basically just be different skins for the chest. I do believe that if specific storage options were implemented, they should be limited to what is supposed to go in them.

As I said, suggestions. Often that's good enough. Problems might come if the storages have different capacities and some are simply more cost efficient though.

I have another idea where we just able to write something on the wooden boxes to tell people the intended use of a box but it really is up to a person whether he follows or not.

#302 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 16:14:29

FeignedSanity wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:
FeignedSanity wrote:

...

it makes the game more noob friendly if there are more purpose built storage. A newbie would instinctively know that food can be found on a dining table next to the oven. Then the newbie gets to learn examples of food you can make.

Pies in wooden boxes are a bit weird, and honestly without mousing over it, taking a basket out, and  then inspecting it. you would NOT guess they are pies. I used to think they were some kind of sandal (i know, i;m not the brightest light bulb in the universe). Newbies WILL struggle with this, as I did, and currently my brother too lol

Part of good design is that the objects imply their function well, not necessarily needing to spell it out and hold our hands

Yeah, I commented a bit on this in an earlier post. It makes sense from this perspective. But you'd need the player to learn anyway. Wouldn't specific containers still be kind of spelling it out? But I suppose at that point, it's an intrinsic game mechanic.

I do see the value in this now, but I don't think it outweighs the benefit of having a container you can just store anything in. That is where we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm glad you can see our train of thought. Do not forget this game, is still a fledgling game that needs to be promoted at some point and newbies will have to come in.

Although.... its totally FINE to allow anything to say go on a dining table, or anything to go into a closet. You can do that in real life so why not in game? Remember, though as a newbie, they will instinctively try to draw parallels with that you can do in OHOL and real life - seeing as how Jason even made the aesthetics of having each item being 'physical and present'.

Therefore, It is important to have 'suggestions' on what this storage unit is for. For organization purpose.
Nothing stops me from keeping my shoes on my dining table and my freshly cooked chicken pie in my shoebox conversely ( okay hygiene dont matter in game but thats not the point), but people who come to my house when i say I have food will be utterly confused that I choose to keep my pie in my shoebox.

Or if I say, yeah sure, just go over to my room and grab yourself a shirt you can borrow. They will go for the closet. and not waste time opening the box on the floor containing my old computer spare parts. Efficiency!
I guess you understand by now.

Thanks for the discussion

Edit: choice of words, sorry, English is my second language

#303 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:55:08

FeignedSanity wrote:
Booklat1 wrote:
FeignedSanity wrote:

...

I disagree enormously. A dining table adds to aesthetics and actually functions as a food display, allowing people to see those items as food.

I suppose it might very well be more aesthetically pleasing, but just seems unnecessary. Also, I don't think people need help seeing stuff as food. I don't see very many times where someone would go "I guess that apple isn't food, because it's not in the pantry or on the dining table". Food is food no matter where it is stored?

I get the aesthetic thing, but aside from that?...eh.

it makes the game more noob friendly if there are more purpose built storage. A newbie would instinctively know that food can be found on a dining table next to the oven. Then the newbie gets to learn examples of food you can make.

Pies in wooden boxes are a bit weird, and honestly without mousing over it, taking a basket out, and  then inspecting it. you would NOT guess they are pies. I used to think they were some kind of sandal (i know, i;m not the brightest light bulb in the universe). Newbies WILL struggle with this, as I did, and currently my brother too lol

Part of good design is that the objects imply their function well, not necessarily needing to spell it out and hold our hands

#304 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:34:39

FeignedSanity wrote:

I would just like to point out that you don't NEED to turn every single grain pile into bread, nor am I suggesting that. I'm only referring to the extra grain left over when the rest has been turned into pies. If you add grain storage to stockpile a ton of grain until you have stuff ready for pies, then you'll make bread a niche food.

I think most of the problems with grain just stem from ignorance about bread.

No, the issue is that none of the objects starting from the wheat right till the final product is stackable. It's a mess!

But we have digressed. We need better storage options, in whatever way that can help.

Heck I'd even take an option to use a single stack of straw or reed bundle to reinforce baskets that are going floppy

#305 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:28:55

FeignedSanity wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:

...
I dont think making 8 breads every time I need to make a boxful or cartfuk of baskets is a good tradeoff , people need the plates for pies for one thing, a vastly superior food.

And I don't need a resident bread muncher to clear the plates. His job is to be naked just outside the kitchen to continuously much down on bread. Totally weird shit

Why not? Just make more plates if you're in such low supply. Baskets last for 10 hours. The bread you would make from those baskets wouldn't last nearly as long, I promise you. I don't get why it'd be a bad trade off. If your goal is to only make more baskets, then the bread is basically free food at that point. Why complain about free food? Because it takes up plates? That's a silly reason IMO.

Also, you don't need a "resident bread muncher" any more than you need a resident berry muncher. You just eat it. Bread is usually the first thing I always eat and it usually disappears pretty quickly; and I certainly don't dedicate my life to just sitting outside the bakery munching bread all day, I assure you.

That's just a little joke. While making more plates is certainly an option, you have to lay bread all over the place and that seems...off? A dining table that can hold 6 plates would be cool

Ultimately I think the beef here is mainly bread not being stackable. They fill up the kitchen floor and makes pie making more difficult
If bread is more compact perhaps wheat wouldn't be a big issue

#306 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:26:31

futurebird wrote:

Wouldn't storage that works for only certain items be less taxing?

Let us put 6 bowls of flour in a crock pot.
Let us stack poop
Let us put more types of bowls in carts and baskets. I've had a github issue about this forever, there are all kinds of items that won't go in carts and boxes that should.
Let us put rubber tires on horse carts and store 6 items
Let us simply stack seeds on the ground.
Let us stack corn like carrots before it's shucked
Let us stack 4 squash in a neat pile
Let us put things like carnitas in to trash pits to empty the bowl
Let us put salt in a crock pot, say 6 bowls of salt so you could streamline production.
Let us make a crock of vinegar, with several bowls of vinegar

Things like this would really help.

It'd be great to spend time making a few crocks of flour for the bakery and then the baker could just scoop out what she needs. It'd work like water buckets.

Yeah man, what if there is a new category of item Jason? Call them tiny items, any items in this category are automatically stackable up to 6 on any square.

I hate being blocked by the odd gooseberry seed, rose hip or bone needle, it is bigger infuriating when you are one pip to starving. I keep thinking how am I killed by being blocked by something the size of a toenail? Granted 6 toenails is still small but it will be more visible

#307 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:14:04

FeignedSanity wrote:
Potjeh wrote:

There's not enough people on the server to eat all the bread it'd take to remove the grain clutter from making sufficient baskets for one small family.

This is just factually incorrect. Besides, you can eat up bread surprisingly fast.

I dont think making 8 breads every time I need to make a boxful or cartfuk of baskets is a good tradeoff , people need the plates for pies for one thing, a vastly superior food.

And I don't need a resident bread muncher to clear the plates. His job is to be naked just outside the kitchen to continuously much down on bread. Totally weird shit

PS: an alternative to making flour stack would be actually to make sliced bread packable. It looks odd and this will undermine the point of pies

#308 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:04:50

Potjeh wrote:

The problem with boxes is that they're hard to access, because there's no room for dropping the baskets due to all the clutter. That, and baskets being too resource intensive combined with them decaying makes sure they're always in short supply. A shelf that stores nine items and doesn't decay would be vastly superior to a box of baskets even though that stores twelve items.

Now, the baskets might not seem that expensive given that two straw isn't hard to grow, but the problem is that you're creating two tiles of grain clutter in the process, and when you add the third tile you need for the basket itself you're basically just spinning in place if you try to reduce clutter by making straw baskets. This can be solved by making grain stackable, preferably within a storage item like a crock pot or a cloth bag, and by giving us a decent sink for grain. How about making pigs eat grain instead of corn, and adding recipes that make pigs actually useful?

I second this, baskets becomes so scarce by the 20+ generation everytime. Then I want to make some, then im staring at an ocean of wheat seeds and I just go screw that. If I make a lot of baskets it can also look like I'm griefing the farm area.

We can turn the flour to bread but that is also a problem since you can't stack bread, suddenly the room is full of sliced bread. Bleh.

Make the crock pot able to contain 10 flour , like a bucket equivalent but flour , this will make using baskets beyond the 20 th generation more sustainable

PS: Also can we turn pork into bacon?

#309 Re: Main Forum » A pacifist will never win in an arms race. » 2019-05-29 14:44:44

Bob 101 wrote:

I'm all for watchtowers with built in zoomout, With the ability to shoot from within even if that isn't pacifist.

Griefer can also do that, shooting out of towers
It should just be a lookout tower

Getting off it to shoot a griefer doing their funny business shouldn't be too difficult anyway

Regarding arms race, no I don't think we should stop the arms race. Perhaps the right arms to use should just be more defensive in nature, strengthen the power of each individual villager.

Like the recent update that makes dancing impossible, it strengthen the villagers because targeting is much easier for everyone , rather than just griefers who likely will catch a villager standing at some point

Also, the other suggestion thread where citizen militia should be implemented , allowing anyone to bludgeon a griefer to the ground. A griefer is already going to use a knife or now anyway , they won't suddenly start to grief with a blunt weapon because that makes no sense at all. I'd like to see grandma beat up a bad man with a shovel

Also, for the village as a whole , especially against material griefers

MORE storage! Especially ones we can label, it'd be so nice of I can write/carve words onto sides of boxes so as to label what they are supposed to contain

Eg. Rope box beside the milkweed farm, toolboxes beside the smithy for storing less commonly used tools when done using (froe, adze, mallet, pick) , pie boxes, pottery box (please return your plates when you're done with your pie) near the kitchen.
This also helps the lookout tower person watch these important boxes easily and people notice stocks dwindling suddenly.

More storage also means motivation to fill up the empty spaces with goods, therefore, more production, hence more redundancy, therefore harder to grief by stealing

We just need a different sort of arms future bird.

#310 Re: Main Forum » Village Defense - Civilian Militia » 2019-05-29 14:23:18

Friendly Isopod wrote:

The long shaft idea might be used to grief by taking every long shaft in sight and hitting random townspeople with them, but I love the defensive tool idea. That would be great. We're kind of powerless right now but a way to defend against attacks without a sword would be a game changer.

On the topic of town defense, I've already suggested this, but guard dogs. Put them at the edges of your village. They bark when non family or dangerous animals get in range, and if an animal gets close they attack. With a human maybe only have them attack if they're wielding a weapon, but hopefully the sound of barking would notify the town that something was going on and give advance of a possible threat nearby.

At least making the griefer horde every long shaft a massive chore before they can play their little game. They also to account for farming implements, and someone will notice they are being taken away

#311 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 12:40:45

i hate to  jump on this stupid leetspeak bandwagons, but i'm frustrated enough to participate in this travesty

so more storage plox

#312 Re: Main Forum » Vampirism » 2019-05-29 05:55:49

This is interesting , but I think this should be only put on a fun server. Or perhaps make this into a seasonal kind of deal. This would f-ing awesome around halloween

#313 Re: Main Forum » Newer Player, 30hrs+2weeks, Quitting » 2019-05-29 05:14:46

Holy shit Morti that's is the longest apology message I have ever bear witness to.

He is probably gone though. -_-

#314 Re: Main Forum » Some straightforward content, plz? » 2019-05-29 04:43:25

Oh god yes!

+Infinity to this thread

I urge others to post and keep this thread high up

#315 Re: Main Forum » The update to /DIE won't stop Eve grief from being common » 2019-05-29 04:41:02

Dodge wrote:

So 8 hours renewable iron veins and an infinite map.

Not sure how this is going to bring scarcity of ressources and roads between villages but wait and see i guess.

8 hours is an awfully long time to not have a single person roam into it IMO.

But it's really hard to tell at this point.

But I would be happy if exploring on horseback has role again, to scout for far away mines. Sick of stumbling on villages and toxic eves so frequently now, and only to find dried up mines

#316 Re: Main Forum » The update to /DIE won't stop Eve grief from being common » 2019-05-29 04:28:23

testo wrote:
futurebird wrote:

I'm thinking about putting up fences or some kind of warning near iron mines to get people to stay out of picked over regions so we can hit that vein again. Maybe I'll just leave little piles of 3 stones or 3 lime stone and if you see those avoid any nearby stone biomes there is a mined-out vein there and if you walk past it it will stay mined out.

But 100/100 is just too big for that. It is also very hard not to find a collapsed mine if you are actively looking for an iron vein. For lasts: roaming the map to prevent respawn will be the next big thing among griefers smile

Son of a b.. dangit

But you know, that has no instant gratification and you don't get to see the 'fruits of labor' . May not be a popular grief method ever

#317 Re: Main Forum » Jason has spawned a bunch of Tarr raiders. » 2019-05-29 03:48:29

testo wrote:
futurebird wrote:
testo wrote:

I am of a similar opinion. One thing is to defend everyones right to play as they want (that includes griefing). Completely different is to endorse it by means social validation, by giving them extra power or by making them a counterpart to the game.

Really well said. Now we have people coordinating greifing in the forum as well it's really discouraging. I don't really care to battle greifers. I'm not here for that.

In all honesty, the biggest mistake here is to reply to griefers threads. For once you are giving them visibility, and for seconds you are giving them your attention. There is nothing more sweet for a griefer to know that he made someone sad or angry. I could go a little deeper on the psychological reasons, but I rather not. The truth is, each reply to one of their threads is for a griefer a candy, a sweet reminder that he has the power to piss you off. Just don´t reply to griefer threads. Don´t reply to them because you are not going to change their view or make them feel bad. Don´t reply. Ever.

Someone also needs to tell Jason, that if you want griefers to challenge you and that is important, he doesn't have to endorse or condone it. It will happen , even if he says no don't. He needs to be the benevolent lord in a game to make a world people want to stay and make stories in.

Griefers are tough as weeds and will not go away even if you implement countless measure to reduce them, so don't worry, they will always be a challenge

Jason you hear me?

#318 Re: Main Forum » Please, read my suggestion. » 2019-05-29 03:35:40

paulof wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

I like your line of thinking Destiny.  Maybe a long shaft could knock a weapon out of someone's hand, but it only works on a weapon, it won't work on a hoe for example.

That's really good too, but you would have to be fast and grab the weapon first from the ground to stop the fight.

Edit: Besides, if you try to kill the griefer he could do the same with the long shaft, and i think the fight would last more than we wish. I don't know man, its almost impossble to think about something griefers couldn't use against good players.

Going by how internet and cyber security has developed over the years , if someone wants to screw with you, they will, no matter how tight you make the defense. Doesn't mean we don't keep trying, but we need to be careful something we add doesn't easily become another griefer weapon

I still think some way to disarm someone for a good period is one good way, perhaps I shouldn't suggest something that has slavery connotations. Again, apologies to anyone offended here earlier, it was off base

Something that prevents use of kill command in someone would be nice since let's face it, only griefers would need to use that in any regularity. Guards and civilians would probably use it once or twice max unless they somehow, somewaygit caught up in a griefer horde ( correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe griefers comes in huge groups yet)

Now after being disarmed , (permanent or not, I don't know how it should be, I think community should give idea here)
Any innocent player accidentally disarmed likely will not feel too bad? They still can do what they typically do, even use knife for non kill purpose. They just can't help defend a town anymore

#319 Re: Main Forum » So this is what if feels like to have a paralyzed daughter, huh? » 2019-05-29 00:04:58

DestinyCall wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:

Crap, won't a character just die if the player loses connection? I had a crap internet routed by a potato couple weeks ago. Did I leave behind invalids?

Nope, you leave behind a braindead body that continues to exist until you starve to death.   This allows you to reconnect if your internet drops you.   But it also creates the weird situation where you can keep a child alive even though their "soul" is gone.   

People tend to do this with daughters, especially if you are running low on fertile females.    Ideally, you want the potato to be on or near a fire and well clothed.   It reduces their hunger drain immensely.   Then you just need to check back regularly to keep them fed.    Whole cow milk is ideal.   But if you don't have that, meat pies work too.    If I have time, I like to make a crock of stew next to the poor thing, so I know there is a fixed food supply close by.

You can also play around with yum chaining, but that gets pretty complicated since you can't see their multiplier and someone else might feed yhem while you are away.  Not really worth it, imo.

Oh no, feels bad. To anyone who took care of potatoes earlier part of this month, that could have been me. Think I left behind at least a dozen potatoes

#320 Re: Main Forum » Encouraging monarchs » 2019-05-28 23:44:15

I simply don't think a formal government is possible. Life is too short.

Heck, we can't even get through a 2 minute parley without  starting to get hungry..

Discussions on voting issues, constitution, monarch decrees needs several minutes , even when it's ultra conscise. And before that you need to convince everyone to gather round the town square. If you miss a few attendees, they will be confused later when enforcement happens and misunderstanding will cause stabbings and drama

Simply put, life is too short for politics on this game. maybe if this game were 6 hours one life, maaaybe it would be feasible.

I do agree our current state of perma  anarchy inevitably leads to a lot of inefficiencies in terms of production lines being slowed down due to having no coordination. But there's a reason why no one being practical pushes for more organization via having a king/queen/elder , it's simply not worth the time. At best maybe I have been a farm overseer as a baker along with a cousin, because we tend to notice when one of our ingredients starts to get scarce, we will try to encourage more berry/wheat/carrot farmers/ trappers/shepherds. Some listen some don't.

Until the core mechanics change drastically (it won't) , anarchy is most efficient

#321 Re: Main Forum » The update to /DIE won't stop Eve grief from being common » 2019-05-28 23:29:00

jasonrohrer wrote:

What won't work well?

This is 100x100 sections of the map that haven't been seen by a single soul for more than 8 hours.  Over the next 8 hours, those sections will decay back to nature, assuming that they aren't seen at all during that time.

If anyone so much as walks through that 100x100 section, it will save the whole section for 8 more hours at least.

Also, this only affects servers with more than 15 current players (so, Bigserver2 only), not the higher-number low-pop servers.

What does this decay entail? Only man made stuff disappears? Do natural resources respawn?

#322 Re: Main Forum » Newer Player, 30hrs+2weeks, Quitting » 2019-05-28 23:02:17

BarnabyJones wrote:
Dodge wrote:

Yeah games are recorded automatically

check the folder called "recordedGames"

Find the recorded game by date and put it in "playbackGame" then lauch game to see the playback.


Ok so I was able to watch it (it was very long as I had 2 previous lives in it) - however, I don't feel comfortable sharing due to the fact that my e-mail and game code is clearly visible at the beginning... is there a way to remove that part?

Essentially, on recap and seeing again, I was minding my own business (farming for stews), missed an opportunity to have ownership of the South gate (I was working and not paying attention). I started asking someone if they had seen skewers because they wanted to plant milkweed and I greenbeans, and that could be done with a hoe (which I didn't know about at the time) or a skewer. They then went off to try to make a hoe but couldn't accomplish this (I didn't know why they were doing this as I thought, again, that I could only use a skewer, remember.. I'm NEW). I then asked for skewers saying "Need skewers, hardcore" -- to which Morti here, who was working on building a road quite quickly exclaimed "go get them" ... and I said "that's helpful" and then he said "North" & "go find some" & "lazy fuck" .. my friend then came up and said they couldn't make a hoe to which I said "here's a hoe" "she's making this road" "and being rude" -- to which Morti then started to flip out, calling me more names with the adjective lazy spread around and then something about my "low low IQ" and that I need to play Overwatch, I literally did not respond other than trying to defend myself about what I had done so far, and then called him an "asshole" after much berating from him and then "fuck this town", cursed Morti for being an asshole, and starved.. Before I did someone told him to kill me. I really don't mind sharing the footage, you'll see I clearly did nothing to warrant the hostile responses I got. I just don't want to share it with my personal e-mail and my game code so clearly visible at the beginning.

Screen record, playback and start recording after the email part

#323 Re: Main Forum » So this is what if feels like to have a paralyzed daughter, huh? » 2019-05-28 22:51:20

Crap, won't a character just die if the player loses connection? I had a crap internet routed by a potato couple weeks ago. Did I leave behind invalids?

#324 Re: Main Forum » The update to /DIE won't stop Eve grief from being common » 2019-05-28 22:29:22

sigmen4020 wrote:

Maybe Jason could add something like a five second or so period where you can’t /die after you are born. I think it’s pretty ridiculous that they can /die immediately after being born, and that it is expected of the mom to pick the baby up the instant they are born or else they didn’t want the child. Adding a small /die cooldown like this might also make /die just a tiny bit more tedious for /die chainers.

On a different note you really shouldn’t be able to cycle through all families twice. Maybe a warning can be added on the rebirth after you have already cycled through all familiesonce, that tells you about a punishment that will follow if they cycle through all the families again. Something like spawning as an Adam far away from others as a sort of mini DT, until a new suitable mother has been found.

I have been thinking
If you choose to use /die too much in a short span(I dont know how much is reasonable, 5 times in an hour maybe?
You will be punished by the "God of Life" for being ungrateful of the gifts of life. As a result you will be borned a cripple subsequently each time you start a new life for a given amount of real time life,an hour maybe?

Cripple means maybe you walk at 50 percent speed compared to normal players and cannot execute kill commands due to being too weak to overpower normal
Players

There will be a warning before you choose to use die on your last life.

Maybe also make a way to tell whether a born child had been recently using die a lot past few minutes so the mother can decide whether the child is a serial /die

#325 Re: Main Forum » I Mixed Dungeons and Dragons with OHOL. It Was Interesting » 2019-05-28 16:08:36

OminousBladeBlank wrote:
RodneyC86 wrote:

There’s the d12. But that’s hipster me talking

-.- lol I knew someone would say that. Yes, there's a d12. I could have also just used a d3 -.- lol

Blasphemy, d3 is not a Platonic solid!!!

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