One Hour One Life Forums

disoculated wrote:

Three wrote:

The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer

But the griefer can't pick up anything, so all they've done is provided a cache of weapons right next to the act for any/all who wish to make some sort of personal.... statement about it.

Though as lionon's story illustrates, that's not the case when there are multiple griefers.

I'm not surprised that it can work in the short term. Essentially it's a sheriff and deputy type thing. The issue for me is: how stable is it over generations? We can easily suggest answers but we have personal bias. But it would take some work to try to get objective data.

Whatever the case, both sides of the debate have the same goal, and actually are aiming toward a similar situation: knives and important crafting locations/tasks being under the control of the most competent and team-spirited players.

In truth, I suspect there are ideal situations for both strategies. And in practice, I imagine those who have defended villages have used both strategies at different times. Sometimes you gotta play keep away, sometimes you gotta pass out the defenses and put people on alert. Maybe? That doesn't mean that one strategy isn't a better choice for the default, though, because there isn't always someone present who can do the mental juggling required to make the best choice.

The real problem is how to determine whether someone should have a knife, right? (And determining whether a killing was justified before further killing.) After that it's just a matter of: should they have the knife? If not, don't give it to them or ask them to drop it. so regardless of how knives are distributed, knowing who's trustworthy is tops.

I suppose the main time when knife "ownership" is important is when there are only one or two, especially if short on iron. I imagine in that case you would want your most worthy villager holding the knife and doing the knife jobs if possible, since the village is still small.

Please dont use butt logs instead of firewood

Crumpaloo wrote:

1. Carry and know the locations of weapons:  Having all of the knives in possession of someone who can be trusted can go a long way into preventing greifing outright, and chances are if the person wants to do any greifing, they will be having to ask you personally for it, or if you are perceptive enough, catch them making bows, arrows, and knives at the smith.

At no point should one or two people have all of the towns knives. When people end up hogging the knives more are needed to be made so town can keep moving smoothly. If anything knives should be spread among as many people as possible and left in work station areas. This allows those wanting to transition from one job to another more smoothly.

Crumpaloo wrote:

2. If someone asks for a knife, ask them more questions in return: For example someone wants a knife, ask them first what for, then if at some point they slip up and say something that you know doesn't require the use of a knife, then you can pretty easily assume they are new, and a greifer.

Normally if I'm not using my a knife and someone asks for it I'll just pass it. With the addition of snowballs I don't need to carry a knife on my persons 24/7 to remove (potential) griefers. I can just snowball them to death and return back to whatever work I'm doing in a village without any real worry.

Crumpaloo wrote:

3. Listen to what people are saying: Did Timmy just curse out Lila for no or little reason? If the argument isn't resolved in about thirty seconds you can probably assume that one of them is going to find a weapon to kill each-other with, not all the time, but usually the one who started it out of the blue will be the guy most likely to start greifing.

Communication is always key. People end up in stabbing chains because they see red and proceed to stab instead of seeing what the commotion is about. Unfortunately, with stabbing another person comes the ability to heal the stabbed party. I've put a "stop" to a griefer before only to find someone healed them without second thought. Thankfully our snowy overlord puts a stop to this sort of issue anyways.

Crumpaloo wrote:

4. Do jobs that require knives: If people are asking for knives to slice bread, or kill sheep, or kill snakes etc., you need to take it upon yourself to use the knives you have in your backpack and slice the bread they want, or kill the sheep they want, because giving other people you dont know knives is dangerous, you need to compensate for the lack of people who have them and start filling those roles. Otherwise people are gonna start making new knives or even worst try to kill you because you wont respond.

While this starts off on the right foot yet again it leads into this mentality that only one person in a camp should have a knife. Knives are tools first and a weapon second. You shouldn't be keeping knives from the people just to prevent the griefer boogyman. In a well functioning town the people will defend themselves when equipped with weapons. Obviously in practice this doesn't always work out but the idea of "guards" has never worked even when the population of the game was at its lowest.

Crumpaloo wrote:

5. Cooperate with trusted villagers: Most people in the game are nice and wanna help advance their civilization, to enrolling their help can be a big boost to the safety of your village as a whole. Most trusted villagers will be older and have been consistently making progress in one or more aspects of the village. For example, are they making lots of pies? are they building roads? Are they a doctor? Doctors especially are probably the safest bet as anyone that would just sit around with a thead and wool pads waiting to heal someone are probably your safest bet. Also since you wont be carrying 4 knives in your backpack since you are sharing them with someone trusted you have more room for tools and food.

The shepherd, the baker, and the doctor all need their own knives at the very least. Multiple bakers? Then you might need a second knife for the bakery. Depending on the size of the sheep pen and how often it needs cleared you might have multiple shepherds with knives to keep the place clean. Knife hogs end up just creating more knives in the long run as anyone who needs a knife to work will just make one instead of trying to fool with asking the knife hoarder.

Crumpaloo wrote:

6. Pretty much never give the knives away: Yeah i know its inconvenient for only one or two people to be hogging all the knives, but the alternative is unregulated use of player killing tools which always at one point or another ends in disaster. So unless you know the person you are giving it to like a friend, dont just give these things away willy nilly. You may just be giving a greifer what he wants.

This is by far the worst advice for the entire thread. Knives are tools people need to actually work within a city. Many of the jobs that allow the city to run smoothly are going to require a knife and screwing the city over due to paranoia is just plain silly. It's not that hard to remove an asshat with a knife and if you cannot stop one guy with everyone armed your city deserves to perish anyway. The bad guy is always going to get a weapon one way or another so it's better to just arm the regular people and allow them to remove the pest themselves. If you think someone is being a bad egg just snowball them, problem solved.

Crumpaloo wrote:

7. Have a plan for when you die: If you die with 4 knives in your backpack in the middle of a populated village, you are basically dropping a set of ak47's in the middle of the US stock market, shits gonna get bad real quick so make sure you got a person you can give your knives to when you die. This usually helps if you got a trusted villager that already has a knife or two as having to question a random guy whether or not he would kll the village whilst your on the brink of death is usually not a very good combination. You gotta also make sure to tell whoever you are giving these knives to to tell who they give their knives to the same deal. By doing this you are continuing to make sure that only trusted villagers will have the means of protecting the village. Maybe even make a check list of what you think is a good villager before you hand them out.

Knife hoarders = bad. Spreading knives out or leaving them in the related work stations = good.

Crumpaloo wrote:

8. Make a medic station: One way or another, no matter how carful you are, greifers are still gonna stab and shoot players, that doesnt however mean they are gone forever. Before all that happens you gotta make sure to get a medic station up. Knife and bow wounds require needle and thread, wool pads, a knife, and a fire. If you have sheep you can make one of these stations in about 10 or so minutes. So even if somehow a greifer manages to get a knife or bow, you will be ready to heal those in need.

Pretty much all towns need some sort of healing area to treat wounds and is in an area people are near most of the time. This allows for people to watch for trolls dirtying the pads and allows for people to see where to go and who is being healed. I always preferred bows due to how much harder they are to heal. Normally this is a death sentence for people as knife hoarders prevent arrow healing. 

Crumpaloo wrote:

9: Be prepared to kill preemptively if you think someones about to greif: Not everyone has the strength to kill a greifer who hasn't done any greifing yet, but you gotta be willing to see it from the right mindset, if you think someone is about to greif and you dont kill them and they start murdering villagers you have failed to see the signs, or failed to go through with your actions. Either way you gotta be willing to pay attention and commit to what you think is the right choice as it may just cost you and your village dearly.

I mean you aren't completely wrong but it's hard for new player to gauge when they're supposed to remove someone before they start doing something worth killing over. Clearly stuff like racism or sexism is a clear indicator that the person in question isn't here to help the town grow and should be knifed. However sometimes people end up being rude because of something YOU end up doing. I remember nearly finishing up the town oil rig at 57 but someone took the charcoal from my station because they wanted to smelt a single steel bar. Clearly I was mad because I was doing something for the future people but got screwed by someone being lazy.

Also people have to learn the idea that not all murder=griefing. Sometimes people just got to leave. 

Crumpaloo wrote:

10: Be prepared to get called a greifer: Even if the person you just killed was a knife away from greifing and even admitted it, you may still be branded as a greifer yourself. People dont actively see the signs that you may of seen because they could of been making pies and only saw you with a bloody knife, explain the situation right after you stab the person otherwise you may just be killed and cursed outright. With all of that you could still be killed and or cursed because people could assume you are just making up excuses and if they stab you in return just go ahead and say you greifed, this will make people that see the guy that just killed you seem like a hero, and stop anyone else from killing him that would perpetuate a murder chain.

Being a knife hog is griefing though. Yes, sometimes people are going to curse you for killing the griefer, I remember killing someone who randomly shot my granddaughter and steam player #307 seen me with a bloody weapon and cursed me. Thankfully one off random curses don't matter due to burning them more often than derp players get their tokens. The town then proceed to collectively curse the griefer I just shot and we moved on with it. That one curse doesn't remotely matter and was worth removing the troll before she killed more people. I can't stop people from blowing their tokens on the wrong people but I can remove the threats from towns before more damage is done.

While you might have some good ideas you also have some very very bad ideas that silly new players in the community always end up having anyways.

Crumpaloo wrote:

So im sure that i and so many others have been a victim of greifers

I know, everybody looooves corrections, but it is "griefing" not "greifing". Just saying since you repeat it over and over. It comes from "grief" as in sorrow.

1. Carry and know the locations of weapons:  Having all of the knives in possession of someone who can be trusted can go a long way into preventing greifing outright, and chances are if the person wants to do any greifing, they will be having to ask you personally for it, or if you are perceptive enough, catch them making bows, arrows, and knives at the smith.

Carry one weapon, yes. Having all knives in possession of someone to be "trusted" is exactly the wrong way. First who gonna watch the guards? Second that certain someone can also be shot by one arrow and now all the weapons are in the hand of griefer.

2. If someone asks for a knife, ask them more questions in return: For example someone wants a knife, ask them first what for, then if at some point they slip up and say something that you know doesn't require the use of a knife, then you can pretty easily assume they are new, and a greifer.

Seriously no. If someone asks for a knife and I've seen them being productive, and I currently don't need it, just give it to them. There is a little trust, and if weapons are spread out, they could kill only a few anyway before being stopped and cursed.

3. Listen to what people are saying: Did Timmy just curse out Lila for no or little reason? If the argument isn't resolved in about thirty seconds you can probably assume that one of them is going to find a weapon to kill each-other with, not all the time, but usually the one who started it out of the blue will be the guy most likely to start greifing.

Giving attention to people who seem to deliberately want to rise drama. However you never no what "out of the blue" means. They might have a reason. You seem to be too focused on killing as "griefing". Only noob-griefers go on a rampage. There are many "better" ways. I posted exactly because of this.

4. Do jobs that require knives: If people are asking for knives to slice bread, or kill sheep, or kill snakes etc., you need to take it upon yourself to use the knives you have in your backpack and slice the bread they want, or kill the sheep they want, because giving other people you dont know knives is dangerous, you need to compensate for the lack of people who have them and start filling those roles. Otherwise people are gonna start making new knives or even worst try to kill you because you wont respond.

Well if you have one, you certainly do the jobs for them. Especially if they pile up. But otherwise this doesn't have to have much to do with "griefing".

5. Cooperate with trusted villagers: Most people in the game are nice and wanna help advance their civilization, to enrolling their help can be a big boost to the safety of your village as a whole. Most trusted villagers will be older and have been consistently making progress in one or more aspects of the village. For example, are they making lots of pies? are they building roads? Are they a doctor? Doctors especially are probably the safest bet as anyone that would just sit around with a thead and wool pads waiting to heal someone are probably your safest bet. Also since you wont be carrying 4 knives in your backpack since you are sharing them with someone trusted you have more room for tools and food.

Someone who just stands there with a pads is dead waste. Seriously. And it could be griefer too who fills the role of the "doctor". I'm not all too found of doctoring in the game general. First players who are too inexperienced to keep running into snakes/boars/bears are weight to town anyway, why waste resources to safe them? People who got into a fight also only perpetuate the drama when saved.

6. Pretty much never give the knives away: Yeah i know its inconvenient for only one or two people to be hogging all the knives, but the alternative is unregulated use of player killing tools which always at one point or another ends in disaster. So unless you know the person you are giving it to like a friend, dont just give these things away willy nilly. You may just be giving a greifer what he wants.

Same as one. Wrong. You are already doing what they want by putting them into a pile.

7. Have a plan for when you die: If you die with 4 knives in your backpack in the middle of a populated village, you are basically dropping a set of ak47's in the middle of the US stock market, shits gonna get bad real quick so make sure you got a person you can give your knives to when you die. This usually helps if you got a trusted villager that already has a knife or two as having to question a random guy whether or not he would kll the village whilst your on the brink of death is usually not a very good combination. You gotta also make sure to tell whoever you are giving these knives to to tell who they give their knives to the same deal. By doing this you are continuing to make sure that only trusted villagers will have the means of protecting the village. Maybe even make a check list of what you think is a good villager before you hand them out.

Thats why it was a stupid idea to start with.

8. Make a medic station: One way or another, no matter how carful you are, greifers are still gonna stab and shoot players, that doesnt however mean they are gone forever. Before all that happens you gotta make sure to get a medic station up. Knife and bow wounds require needle and thread, wool pads, a knife, and a fire. If you have sheep you can make one of these stations in about 10 or so minutes. So even if somehow a greifer manages to get a knife or bow, you will be ready to heal those in need.

see 5.

9: Be prepared to kill preemptively if you think someones about to greif: Not everyone has the strength to kill a greifer who hasn't done any greifing yet, but you gotta be willing to see it from the right mindset, if you think someone is about to greif and you dont kill them and they start murdering villagers you have failed to see the signs, or failed to go through with your actions. Either way you gotta be willing to pay attention and commit to what you think is the right choice as it may just cost you and your village dearly.

Yes, yes "war for peace", "f***ing for virginity".. etc.

10: Be prepared to get called a greifer: Even if the person you just killed was a knife away from greifing and even admitted it, you may still be branded as a greifer yourself. People dont actively see the signs that you may of seen because they could of been making pies and only saw you with a bloody knife, explain the situation right after you stab the person otherwise you may just be killed and cursed outright. With all of that you could still be killed and or cursed because people could assume you are just making up excuses and if they stab you in return just go ahead and say you greifed, this will make people that see the guy that just killed you seem like a hero, and stop anyone else from killing him that would perpetuate a murder chain.

I repeat you are drastically reducing the griefer to the noob-griefer. This is all wrong.

I agree with agree with Azrael that this rules are almost identical to griefing, but do not come to his conclusion it is because there isn't so much difference. No it's the way, because this all bad advice. And yes, there I agree with him again on the surface, being genuine "clumsy" is not that much different to a griefer who does this on purpose. The difference is in who to deal with them. Genuine people generally can be talked with, griefers cannot.

Hm. Yes, just as I suspected, the rules you lay out here are almost identical things that a griefer can do in their lives while griefing.

Hide the weapons, never give them out, kill preemptively, doing jobs that require knives to look less suspicious, if someone wants knives/weapons ask them a multitude of questions.

It just really shows how griefers and anti-griefers are one and the same. When you look at fundamental rules and the basic things that a griefer will do to hide his griefing and to begin griefing, it is the same things that an anti-griefer will do.

So when you think about it, griefer and anti-griefer are both detrimental to society if this is the things they do. No one has trust in anyone, that's what separates us from the griefers and anti-griefers.

Trust is hard to give and is sometimes unwarranted, but it's all we got, if we all trusted a bit more, things would be better.

That's just my look at it I guess.

Edit: ah misread your post. Maybe could work. It would need an object for every farm plot, unless extra code were added to handle that.  I don't know a whole lot about the engine yet, I just know water flow from pipe to pipe is a lot of work.

You're saying basically a cistern-like object for individual bushes I guess then?  Like you put a bucket of water in, and it waters the bushes every so often.

At that point maybe you might just want to make it sprinklers xD  Get all them stardew valley fans :3

Edit: ah misread your post. Maybe could work. It would need an object for every farm plot, unless extra code were added to handle that.  I don't know a whole lot about the engine yet, I just know water flow from pipe to pipe is a lot of work.

You're saying basically a cistern-like object for individual bushes I guess then?  Like you put a bucket of water in, and it waters the bushes every so often.

At that point maybe you might just want to make it sprinklers xD  Get all them stardew valley fans :3

I wouldn't put too much work into the idea unless you're just spitballing for fun:  It's incredibly unlikely the suggestion would ever be implemented.  The entire engine is based around, probably for performance and work effort reasons, "Add x to y to make z, or x decays over time into y with no knowledge of its surroundings".  Every object added to the game uses this, even when it has super awkward implementation to preserve this (like hitting stakes with a rock 5 times to make the road type, or whacking a steel bar like 8 times to make a shovel head).  Unless you want aqueducts to give infinite water, you're basically asking for gigantic network systems, water flow,  blah blah, etc etc, which is unlikely to exist in the multiplayer setting with this engine.  You'd be better off working out these problems before selling the idea first.

Crumpaloo wrote:

Bruh theres a difference between actively stabbing people, and passivly ignoring a child.

I agree, letting a baby starve is WAY worse. Watching a kid die that wants to live is just wrong yet we have all come to accept it. This game is about taking care of others, not being selfish!

Villages don't fail because of too many people, they fail because of too many newbs/lazy people. More people is always good if you're good enough to give them jobs.

I just think standing there while a kid begs for food is the worse thing you can do in this game (besides people pens). Especially in the case of OP letting a girl die to teach a newb boy? He deserved to die by knife.