a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
The fact that all a person need do is wait and attack ANY one of the tiles of a fence makes big fences pointless.
You can't destroy rickety fences, there's no reason to patrol vigilantly. Once a fence goes past the approved state it cannot be destroyed unless it is left alone and it decays.
This was almost definitely an issue on my end, I restarted my router and replugged my ethernet cable and the issue went away immediately.
Give JackSepticEye a copy of the game. He'll probably try it out. He does that often when game creators send him their games.. He has a HUGE fan base too!
Jack receives hundreds of games per week, just sending him a key is not enough for him to cover a game.
I know Jason sent out plenty of keys to content creators when OHOL came out on Steam and he almost definitely sent one to Jack as well.
The best way to get existing content creators to cover OHOL would be for their viewers and fans to suggest it via YT comments/Discord/Twitter. Of course if they mostly play FIFA or BeamNG or Pokemon on their channel it's probably pointless to even suggest it as OHOL is too far out of their content niche.
The problem with OHOL is that it takes a while for it to 'click', which often means that you need invest some time into prep and learning if you're a brand new player looking to make a video (although I love watching people's first impressions of OHOL). Compare it to something like TABS, which is super easy to get into and make fun videos straight away.
If you do have any content creators that you watch and that you think would enjoy playing OHOL on their channel, let them know about the game. Tell them it's available on Keymailer, and tell them that I'd gladly show them the ropes if they want someone to guide them.
The entire point of the new clothing is to look fancy, and fancy they are.
I think the real problem is compost. Shovels should be used for digging, composting should be done by a dedicated tool such as a manure fork.
Thank you for fixing potatoes. They're still going to be one of the worst foods in the game, but growing them will no longer be actively harmful to a village - and that's completely fine. That's all we ever wanted, I don't think anyone ever claimed that potatoes should be a top tier food.
I think people are forgetting that I changed the way that it worked 2 months ago. It used to be two shovel uses per potato (dig, then set down). Now it's just one.
I think we all remember that, everyone was in shock when you made that change, because you made them even worse than before - from two separate 4% chances (~7.8% combined) to a single 10% chance to use.
Also, I should say that mixed into the balance are aesthetic considerations. I want this game to feel like making things. It is very realistic, at least on one axis. Carrots are pulled out of the ground one at a time, by hand. Potatoes are dug with a shovel. You also have to mound the plants in the middle of growth. It's just the way potatoes work. Getting rid of any of those steps would make them not feel like potatoes. They aren't just brown carrots.
I don't think this argument holds water at all.
Sheep don't need to be fed and they just pop out babies forever, pigs never shit and their meat is inedible, cows don't have meat whatsoever.
We can't figure out how to eat raw tomatoes or onions, but we can make steam engines out of branches and rocks.
We can make cars out of wooden boxes, and make planes out of them just by adding wings. And that plane takes up less space than two corn kernels.
Also, shovels break after digging out like ten potatoes. That is NOT the way shovels work.
Saying that you can't fix potatoes because it would be 'unrealistic' is an extremely poor argument.
I love it ![]()
I think it shows the average, yeah. When I first checked the graph said 27, now it says 26.
While I really disliked the magic hat idea, I do like this one a lot better.
I like it because it doesn't uproot the existing conventions of the game, but it allows more possibilities for interesting scenarios to occur.
I like the elder approved version better than free placement.
I think that each tile of the fence should use a separate item to create, it should not be infinite. Yew shafts might be perfect for this, as they're not used for many items currently. Stack of two yew shafts + flint chip = stack of ten fence stakes. That would allow you to easily outline your land with not that much effort, although if you do end up going with one-item-per-tile, I think another tree that gives branches similar to yew should be implemented, one that spawns in a different biome. I really like Amon's suggestion. It should be a bit of work to get the fence materials, but it shouldn't take too long.
Some potential issues:
How do animals work with property fences? Are they passable like home markers, or are they blockers like normal fences?
Can a person carrying a baby enter the fence? What if someone decides to kidnap all the town babies and hide them in their area, and the poor babies can't get out and they starve.
How many gates can a person own? Is there a possiblity that all this additional data strains the server?
The elder stone should be a temporary object. Something like sharp stone + round stone = elder stone, elder stone + 30 seconds = round stone. It should be easy to make but it should revert quickly, otherwise you could have elders covering the town in unpickupable items. Also, if an elder dies with the stone in hand you will not be able to move their bones if it doesn't revert quickly.
It maybe shouldn't be called Elder Stone as that sounds very magical - Property Marker/Property Stone might be better? But on the other hand the very name Elder Stone explains why you can't pick it up.
What about this - you place the fence marker, an elder approves it with an elder stone, and then there's a three minute window where any elder can remove the approved fence.
I really didn't like any of your previous suggestions, but this one is very interesting and I think I would enjoy it.
The issue isn't we can't make houses/buildings/etc it's that we have no reason to do so in the current game. I personally can kick out four (unfloored) 8x8 rooms by myself using just a cart which means with just two builders you could rather quickly put up a rather organized city of buildings. We don't need a magic hat to build, we need to have a reason to want to do this.
This. In real life you build buildings to protect yourself and your belongings from the weather. They're a positive thing.
In game they're a tradeoff - on one hand, they look neat and can sometimes help direct people to a certain task. On the other, they cost resources, and (more importantly) they destroy valuable real estate that could have been used for storage instead.
Why would a hat have intrinsic special powers? How does that make any sense?
I'm with happynova, a magic hat that gives you special powers sounds like the total opposite of what OHOL is all about. I feel like it would make the game super boring - either you have the crown and doing things is trivial, or you don't have the hat and it's a feelbad moment because you're being punished for no reason.
If I wanted to build big projects with a magic hat I'd just go play Minecraft or Terraria instead.
And why would a magic hat suddenly enable property rights? I honestly don't understand this train of thought at all.
I'm wondering if it's really the area ban that's the problem...
I think changing the ban timer from play time to real time would be a big step by itself. Unless I'm mistaken, the ban timer is two hours, right? That means if a person plays one life every day, they can't go back to their Monday town until their play session two days later, on Thursday. And that is only if their Tuesday and Wednesday lives were both old age deaths, otherwise they'd have to wait until Friday.
Really? This has happened to me personally several times.
Who's got the knife? I had to ask around, and then the person with the knife walked over and did the task for me (killing the sheep) instead of lending me the knife.
I even had the knife passed on to me when they died, because they thought I was trustworthy.
I think the file had been hidden away or something, making it really tedious to make a new knife.
There were also other lives where there was no knife anymore, even though there clearly used to be one.
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood you - I thought you were trying to say that only one 'leader person' carries the only knife.
In my experience knives are usually kept in backpacks/aprons and you usually only give them away right before death, bascially minimizing the chance of a random griefer slaughtering all the sheep or killing other people. Towns usually have multiple knives, not just one, and they're not in the hands of the elders - they're in the hands of whoever gets their hand on them (usually bakers or sheep herders), and then they don't leave their backpacks until they're dead.
Most villages have multiple knives, as having only one knife means that's the only weapon around, and if it falls into the wrong hands there will be trouble.
Something similar is already happening de facto with knives in the game, and I love it. There's usually an elder in the town who carries the only knife, and you have to go ask them to help you with any knife projects (like killing a sheep).
I feel like this is more wistful thinking on your part than actual reality. I can't remember a single life where the only village knife was in the elder's hands.
What if being buried halved your remaining lineage ban time instead of outright removing it?
Currently there is no reason to trade as every village has everything. In history, trading happened because party A had something party B wanted, and vice versa. That's just not the case in this game most of the time - the one exception that comes to mind is when you trade clothing for another piece of clothing.
People trade either useful core resources or luxuries. In OHOL, every village has access to the same core resources, and luxuries don't really play a role - if you really like lobster in real life you'll pay extra for it, but ingame lobster is just nutritional value, same as a carrot. The only luxury that might work (and already does work, kinda) is clothing. You can show it off, but then again most people don't care about the looks, they just want the most efficient item. And even if you do really covet a specific item of clothing you can craft it yourself most of the time.
What if there were special rare resources that only spawned once every thousand tiles, like silkworms that allow you to make special silk clothing, or rare dyes for both clothing and buildings, or marble deposits that could be crafted into special tombstones and statues, or animals that can be hunted and crafted into special clothing/decorative items. Luxury items that you can show off.
Let's say that we do have a reason to trade and that we decide to trade. I have a small cart where I store my wares, and a random person comes along. They offer me their gold bar for a basket of pies. I agree, but before I have a chance to react they grab the basket and run away. I cannot physicially block them, I cannot catch them, I cannot grab them. My only course of action is to kill them, and that seems really awkward. Imagine working in a store, someone shoplifts, and the only thing you can do is murder them on the spot.
You might say, "Oh, just build a building and lock it," but building a building like that is a multi-generational effort and most people wouldn't be happy with a single person claiming ownership of it.
Right now you can have multiple people standing on the same tile. What if that applied only to members of your family? That would encourage familiar separation, as you wouldn't want to share a smithy with an outsider since they would be a hinderance. You could also block people from accessing certain area with your body. If another family moved into your territory you'd probably want them gone as their very presence would be making your life more difficult. This would kind of enable private propery, in a way? The more I think about this the more I like it.
Let's talk about roads - trade can't happen without them. Currently ingame roads have to be built tile by tile before they can be used. My understanding is that in real life roads were formed by travelers and traders who naturally left a trail on the ground where them and their caravans walked. This would probably be impossible to implement, and it would be an incredibly massive amount of data to store, but what if each ground tile had a health value?
Let's say that a grassland tile has 100 health - every time a cart, horse rider, or car crosses that tile the health of the tile goes down by one. You could also use a road making machine (a massive boulder sledge or something) to deal ten damage to that grass tile. Once the tile's health goes down below twenty it becomes a dirt road. Health would go up over time, so if a road stops being used it would go back to a normal tile. Something like this sounds completely impossible to implement, but I think it would make for interesting gameplay.
Bodies of water and boats would likely be a good way of trading as well. Rivers and ocean/lake biomes are definitely up there on my wishlist. The ocean/lake biome would probably have to to be salt water as to not make the current water tech completely obsolete, and the rivers would have to give you muddy water that had to be processed before watering your crops or something.
futurebird wrote:I really like the burying idea but i think it should also require a grave.
I'm not sure how I feel exactly on the burying idea. I like it better than family locking. One thing though I do feel very strongly on:
The reincarnation via a dug grave should NOT require a flat rock for a grave. The problem lies in that if you want serious roadbuilding between towns, you want a substantial amount of flat rocks to go towards that. There do exist enough flat rocks in the game, but honestly after road building a lot on a low population server which almost surely has the largest road network in existence, I almost wish that flat rocks appeared in tundras, since getting flat rocks to connect towns takes a serious amount of time.
We need different tombstone designs, the same way there's different walls. Same function, different look and different materials required.
Maybe, instead of every existing family on the server being marked as B, and locking you into only one family, instead we simply lock you out of the one nearby family to your family in an area.
Maybe each area has an A and a B family in it, and when you're first born in that area, you are assigned to one. If you're ever reborn in that area, you will be reborn to that same family.
Essentially, in each area, there is a Montague and Capulet family. Maybe their Eves spawn together, nearby. But elsewhere on the server, there are other, different Montague2 and Capulet2 families, and Montague3 and Capulet3.
So if Montague3 dies out, then that town is lost to whoever lived there in the Montague3 family, as they will never get born as Capulet3.
And area bans, etc, would still be in effect. So life-to-life, you'd experience different things. But long-term, the survival of the families that you lived in before would matter more.
This is a very interesting and potentially good idea, but I don't think it would achieve quite what you're aiming for. If both towns survive long enough they'd eventually establish a road between them, and people would mix until you have a 50% split of each family in both towns. Most of the time though either one or both of the towns would die before ever meeting their counterpart.
I don't see how or why I would prefer my Montague family to their Capulet family to such an extent that I decide to do anything that harms the Capulets in order to help my Montagues. We're all players playing the same game.
If a young unrelated girl walks up to me and asks for food I will help her, because she's not a random person - she's another player that was was probably my daughter, mother, grandson, or uncle in one of my past lives. She is not unrelated to me any more than my ingame 'daughter' is.
A town has personality - the layout, the buildings, the roads. The towns are variables that keeps changing over the course of the game - every town that I played in over the past year was its own living thing. That's why we care about towns so much - towns are our creations, birthed from the sweat of our clicks.
The people, on the other hand, have been a constant all along. They just pop in at random. We don't get to shape them, we don't get to affect them. They're their own people with their own existing personalities.. A name doesn't make a person.
In real life you care about your children because you create them from nothing, raise them, and shape their personalities. They become what you make them, and if you don't take care of them they will be gone forever and will be lost forever. Very similar to towns in OHOL.
The more I think about this idea the more I'm certain that it would achieve the complete opposite of what you're trying to do.
What gives life in OHOL meaning is the fact that you only have a limited time to achieve your goal. Once you die that's it, there's no coming back, which means you have to do your best to leave the town in the best possible shape for future generations.
If you can just respawn death loses all meaning. You got killed by a wolf? Who cares, you'll just respawn back in town and go loot your old corpse when you're a bit older. Village running out of girls? Better go suicide as soon as you hit age 40. You gave birth to a boy? You should starve your own child so he can come back as a girl - after all, you want to have daughters so you can respawn to them when you hit 40. Your mother got mauled by a bear? That's OK, she'll respawn immediately.
Bleh.
I really dislike this idea. The main draw of OHOL for me is spawning into a brand new situation every life. If I get spawned into the same family every time I play that means death has no real meaning, it's just a slight annoyance as I can just respawn in the same town immediately.
Any family gets Tarr or some other highly skilled player is going to be basically immortal until server reset. What's going to happen is there's going to be ~5 families that keep building up their city until it gets massive and people get bored.
This would also completely screw over players who enjoy playing in Eve towns.
The more I think about this the more I dislike it honestly.
On a different note we just had two straight months of mechanic tweaks, bug fixes, and redesigns. I really enjoyed the content update last week and I was hoping you'd focus on those for some time.
One thing that would probably indirectly make people care more about their children are more character models. Currently a lot of people in any given town look exactly the same and it's impossible to distinguish between your children and a random family member at a glance without mousing over them and reading the text. It might seem like a small thing, but I bet if whenever you saw a person you instantly knew they were your descendant we'd have more familiar interaction.
Currently we have four skin tones in the game - A, C, D, and F. Skin tones C and D have six distinct characters per set (three males and three females), while A & F have only three (two female and one male). As the A & F sets are not 'complete' (there's less than four characters in the set) they can not have babies in their own skin tone, which means they can only appear as random tiny chance from their respective adjacent skin tones.
This in turn means that any given early town is either a C town, or a D town. Sometimes they'll get babies from an adjacent skin tone (10% chance if I recall correctly), but basically what ends up happening is that in any given town you have two or three people that look exactly the same as you despite not being closely related.
I think new character models should be added more often (once a month?), and the A & F sets need an extra character ASAP so they can be a 'full' set.
What if the players can decide if you can return after you are gone. For example, what if burying someone releases the area ban? Burying could be a way to "put their soul to rest" and allow them to return. You will then have an interesting choice after each person dies, should you bury them? Did they improve society, and do you want them to return?
If you do this, burying will no longer become role play, it will become real play like you spoke of. If you see a pile of bones in the wilderness, you'll have the desire to bury them to increase the chance of more players being able to play in your line. Also venturing out yourself will feel more scary because if you are not found and buried you will not be able to return.
What do you think?
I love this idea. Currently the only reason to bury someone is roleplay, as burying people actually drains valuable resources and the only thing you get in return is even more organization problems as the potential play area becomes smaller. If your child/mother/sibling dies the best thing to do is to ditch their bones in the swamp far away from the town, which always felt really weird to me.
If being buried made you ignore the area ban then we'd see a lot more burials, you'd want to bury a good player so they can come back, and if someone was causing problems just exile their bones far away so they can't come back. You'd also want to bury random unknown bones that are always scattered around towns, as buried bones = more babies for your family.
Murdered people should not be able to avoid the area ban though.
We could also get several types of tombstones, just for a variety's sake. You should also be able to see the name of the person buried there - right now it just says tombstone, and you have no idea who your ancestors were.
I'd love to be able to talk a walk through the family graveyard in a future life and see what type of grave my children made for me.
Your game isn't built for war and to be honest- if it was I probably wouldn't be playing it.
I agree with this 100%
One of the main reasons I love OHOL is because it's a game unlike any other, a game about cooperation and civilization building. So many games these days use conflict as the main driving force of the gameplay, playing OHOL feels really refreshing.
Quiz: You just had a girl baby, and suddenly another unrelated girl baby walks out from the bushes and asks for food. She's one year older than your baby. You realize you only have enough food resources for one baby. Which one do you save?
If you only have enough food resources for one that means you don't have any food whatsoever, which means you're all going to die anyways.
Quiz: Your family is running out of food, and your last girl child is about to starve to death, resulting in the end of your family line. Nearby in the same town, there's an unrelated family that has plenty of extra food. You ask for some assistance, but they refuse. You have a knife, and they don't. What do you do?
I don't have to ask for food, they don't own it. There is no concept of personal property in this game. The only reason to hoard all the food is if you're griefing and trying to starve out the entire village.
In real life, if your baby ran off into the desert, you'd chase it endlessly. You'd call to it. You'd plead with it. In this game, you just shrug your shoulders and move on.
That's because in real life, the baby is an actual baby. In OHOL, it's another adult sitting at their computer.
So I need to get to the bottom of WHY the Smiths and the Joneses are just sharing everything without a care in the world. I need to figure out why it doesn't matter, currently. If they're just sharing everything, how can they ever engage in trade? Or employment? Why do we need laws? How could there ever be a real, multi-generational feud?
There are no Smiths and Joneses. There's only players, and those players have a different last name every life. Waging a war against another family is no different than waging a war against your own family. You don't know where you're going to respawn when you're die, you might come back as a Jones, you might come back as a Smith, or you might come back as a Rohrer. If you wage war against another family you're just sabotaging your future lives. Besides, if people wanted to play a game where you wage war they'd probably play a different game. IMO most people play OHOL because it's completely different, wholesome story generator.
Where's the heated town meeting where we decide to load up the covered wagons and strike out for greener pastures? Where's the heated town meeting where we load up the bows and arrows and decide to raid the next village?
It's easier for one person to bring the needed resources to the town than it is to move the entire town to a different location. Why would you bother raiding a different village when you can just cooperate with them instead, or grow your own resources?
Besides, how would you find the location of the other village, organize a raiding party, head out, raid, and come back in a single life? Unless the stars align that's completely impossible, and even if you do succeed it's: a) incredibly inefficient to raid instead of growing your own resources, and b) making your future lives worse.
We have separate food supplies in real life because this stuff matters. This stuff doesn't matter in the game, so we don't. It currently would be dumb to have a wall around your garden and only let your family in to eat food, because your family doesn't matter. But if your family mattered, it wouldn't be dumb at all. In fact, it would be dumb to not have a wall.
I don't care about my last name, I care about the town. Other players are not my blood, they're just other people sitting at their computers playing the same game that I am.
If I play the game on Monday, by the time I launch it again on Tuesday all the lineages I lived in the day before will be gone, and even if they somehow lasted 24 hours, spawning back into them would just make me think, "Heh, that's neat I guess, what are the odds."
On the other hand, when I spawn into or find the same town I played in before, now that's a great moment. It's something I can connect with, as it's a product of many people doing one small thing to make something great.
When I get a baby I know it's just another adult playing a game, and I don't usually connect with them unless I'm roleplaying. I'll spend as little time as possible raising them because it's not necessary most of the time - I don't need to teach them anything as they're not an actual baby, they're a player that has the ability to learn on their own. And if they die who cares - they don't actually die in real life, they'll just respawn somewhere else.
As a result of all of this, I don't think the stories that occur in the game are as interesting or as meaningful as they should or could be. That's my fault, and it's my job to fix it.
I couldn't disagree more. The average life in OHOL is more meaningful than any game experience I've ever had. I'll never forget the time when my father Apollo was wrongly killed, or when I shot my own bloodthirsty brother in order to secure peace between ours and another village, or when I created the Rite of Passage and other people followed it, or when I abandoned my family in their time of need to find the promised Bell Town, or when I hid in the woods as a child in order to survive a griefer attack and ressurect the village, or when I taught Queen Queen how to make compost from scratch in the town's time of need, or the life where I was high on mushrooms the entire time and Steve took care of me.