a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Would be nice to teach mosquito trapping and entombing. Even though it required patience and slow movements, I found it enjoyable. But why I would bother teaching that now since it's easier to make fire than to import snow... and you want a clothing supply close to your base? I know your post is a few days old, and my comment doesn't take that into account. But, I know you had something of a thing for a mosquito trapping... at least you did before.
Rage wrote:Clothes should be an early concern, but just club a damn seal and carve off the fur, it takes no tech but a sharp stone. Get a reed skirt, which also takes no tech but sharp stone.
If a sharp stone is tech, so is a flint chip. And you need a flint chip to skin the seal.
Deserts getting nerfed makes sense. But jungles being so hot and it's more difficult to cool down than heat up, because importing snow comes as more deadly than making fires... does that make sense? I don't understand the jungle nerf. Plenty of people avoided those already, because of the mosquitoes.
Heat shock is reduced when you get bite.
Jungles have rubber trees, palm trees, and mangoes. So, jungles have some advantages. But, I agree, why would anyone want to live in a jungle now? It's such a shame. I set up in a jungle because of the benefits before the update. And now I've felt like taking a mining pick to my own kilns and oven.
Thanks for this post Jason. I do appreciate the information. However, I want to talk about one particular change though.
https://i.imgur.com/C69TYGq.gif
This means that an enclosed house with a floor can make a hot biome cooler, and a colder-than-normal biome, like the polar biome, warmer.
Ok, I think this means that smithing progression might need some rethinking, as the froe and adze seem more useful earlier.
Thus, the game isn't really any harder now than it was before, unless you count the loss of the desert-boundary exploit as making the game harder (yes, that was easy, but the game was never supposed to be easy like that).
Wait what?
1. What about the jungle now being more difficult? Many people before were picking desert over jungle, because the mosquitoes needed handled. They still need handled for anyone choosing the jungle (but why should an Eve bother with jungle now? for the rubber supply? but that's too far down the road), and in my opinion, they require more time and effort than handling snakes or boars.
2. Sure, wood flooring might make a smithy, a kitchen, and maybe animal pens good enough that for a jungle or desert, things might be pretty good for people working there. So, sure for some the game might be easier. But, earlier it was at least possible to setup your farm well either by using the desert edge and neutral biome "exploit" or being bold enough to set your farm up in a jungle, including a true jungle where your family tackles the mosquitoes. Is wood flooring really enough to provide enough benefits to make things good enough for farmers? You can't till soil over a wood floor, correct? I doubt that wood flooring will be enough for farmers, especially if they are nude. If the game isn't easier for the farmers, I doubt the game becomes easier overall. And if farming is now less easy than smithing or cooking, it seems even more likely that players who know the game will NOT do much farming. Plenty of people who could do so, I think, were already avoiding farming, leading to seeing newer players do things like using a clay bowl on a cistern, because they were more likely to farm than more experienced players. Now it seems like more experienced players will avoid doing so even more. If things work out that way, does this really make for an improvement? Does the game become easier if the food supply is weaker?
Edit: Oh... and settlements might want to think about growing trees for more butt logs. Settlements sometimes were already struggling with growing enough trees before of finding a good branch picker to keep things running smoothly. I suspect they will struggle even more with this now.
The mouflon hide is nice, but I recommend seal hide as your first option. No knife or bow required and it can be upgraded to sealskin coat when you get needles and thread.
Leave the mouflon for future generation so the village will always have sheep.
I think it's more difficult to find the same number of seals as it is to find the same number of mouflons. At least, I think mouflons are more abundant. For an Eve or a small group, sure sealskins might be better first.
Been playing eve a few times and honestly, I think it's best to abandon everyone before age 30. It's crazy. Having everyone on one server guarantees a steady stream if kids, and they just drain resources you need. At 30, I'll likely have like 4 more kids, and it's so much easier dealing with a baby horde when your first berry bushes are already about to fruit.
Edit: actually the baby horde is from all the people constantly SIDSing due to the early life being so hard, isn't it?
Berries take 12 minutes to grow. Carrots, corn, and green beans take 4 minutes to grow. Squash takes 6 I think. Since finding a warm spot is counterproductive now, and clothing does something, try setup nearer to the prairie and start growing prairie crops more.
Hi elemental_slim,
I can't answer your questions, as I didn't have any trouble getting my Eve spawn on server12 since the update. I played once in your town on server7, I think, before you and your friends made the sign. I am Spoon, and if I recall correctly, I think I said that as my name at the time and I saw one of you say that was my name. I think I also once died intentionally in one of your arms, because I wanted an Eve run or something... sorry about that... I think you get it though. I enjoyed my time at your town. I don't recall the biomes exactly, but I loved your town at the time, though maybe now it feels different due to the change in temperature and food mechanics.
There's a post on reddit about how to find your Eve town again.
Also, on server12 there's a road that connects towns. So, if you and your friends want to start over (which is not to say you should) and can connect to the main road, that will make it easier to find your town again if anyone gets lost, especially once you have a BellTower. Best of luck!
The game is harder and i'm loving it. You're a hardcore player pein, i'm sure everytime you finish something big you'll feel much more rewarded now. Didn't you feel the game was to easy before?
If farming or cooking maybe. If trying to forge, and I had just started with the newcomen stuff on a low population server, I felt it challenging to try to get as much done as possible. It was easy to waste kindling or charcoal, and also saw lots of poor choices when watching people Stream (it wasn't always the streamer). I'd definitely say no. I felt the game challenging before even once I learned it, because figuring out how to make advanced machines like a diesel engine is pretty complicated, and remembering how to do certain things I felt might be tricky. I've done SEVERAL runs as an Eve, and recently said to myself that I would make a stone hatchet when I could have used an axe instead, but chose to make a stone hatchet. What do I do? I make a fire bow drill instead. So again, the answer is no.
DestinyCall wrote:If this update doesn't feel like that much of a change, it probably means you were spending way too much time out in the cold, instead of managing your temperture using free biome heat. This also means your food consumption was significantly higher than someone who took full advantage of the jungle/desert warmth to keep themselves close to optimal temp while working.
I wouldn't consider that something to feel proud about, honestly. Although, i guess it works to your favor now that we are all stuck in cold camps and must avoid hot zones.
Seriously, just make clothes, grow milkweed until you have sheep, clothes aren't difficult.
A reed skirt doesn't decay, but if you cut down a tule reed as an Eve, then you either need to get a shovel up, or you will have the stump decay into nothing. So, now potential resources are more likely to turn to nothing than before.
Also, 'living like this'. Um... but what about temperature shock?
We should be avoiding desert and jungle unless we need something, they're dangerous AF.
I don't disagree. But, for anyone who set up a town in a desert or jungle now (and I'm not the only one) might feel like their effort has gotten wasted by a change in temperature mechanics.
I setup a town on a low population server, Eve chaining. I picked the jungle deliberately, as I had avoided it so many times. I have my farm, kitchen, and smithy in a jungle. I got lucky and didn't get bit farming, smithing, or cooking. I was loving it. I spent a few lives moving mosquitoes around to some edges, and then started on building mosquito tombs. Someone popped in and helped me finish four mosquito tombs. I didn't have any dark nosajs either.
I played earlier today, and by the time of my first meal I realized something was different. I looked at the temperature and oh dear. No wonder I had to eat, because my jungle was so hot. It turned from beautiful/potentially beautiful to ugly overnight. Why did I spend so much time trapping mosquitoes when I may as well have setup somewhere else now closer to rabbits (or maybe wolves)? I still have my Eve spawn in a neighbor's town. But, I told my neighbor earlier 'curse Jason Rohrer'. Maybe I'll adapt or something... but my jungle... my beautiful jungle is now hideous.
It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to wait so long for rabbits to have babies as an Eve. It feels like an eternity while I wait for the buggers to slowly creep out of their holes for the first time. I love trapping and hunting and making clothes but the demand now far outstrips the ability of a town to produce enough in the early stages to make a growing family comfortable. If you want to have people wearing clothes, you gotta have the resources.
The quickest way to get a sizeable group of people clothing is to have a hunter and maybe a clothing collector also, who hunts mouflon and probably also wolves. Killing wolves in the badlands before could be useful, now it's very useful. Mouflon hide does not require any milkweed beyond the startup cost of a bow and arrow (and you want one later anyways), and I would expect still does not decay. So long as some mouflon close enough is left or a baby mouflon gets left, that's alright. If a settlement can get up a knife, all of those wild mouflons can get skinned for their meat. The drawback though comes as that if you setup near the badlands, then your settlement lies closer to bear dens, and it's only two parts of the body that can get covered (and wolf hats require milkweed to make before a ball of thread and needle... and you need at least one rabbit bone).
sometimes i cant find a plate to forge, and i dont care if you got 50 yum, i will force feed pies to you, to empty the plate, cause all those time you hunting yum bonus, you could of got some clay and make extra plates or arrange all the full plates in baskets and half empty ones offered to berry eaters so we got some free plates
You can't eat iron or iron based tools or a radio. You make the wrong call by force feeding people managing their own diet and take responsibility for it. Those people may be have defects, but they manage their own problems. You want to run the forge? Well, if you don't have plates or bowls, then the settlement probably doesn't have enough or its food supply is so good that forging useful tools isn't needed to prevent starvation. So, you have the information which suggests a clay bowl or plate shortage or suggests that the colony has a lot of food and should be in good shape. Thus, you need to take responsibility and you can for that clay issue, go out, get clay, and fire it up. The settlement should also have more charcoal later which makes forging later and anything newcomen related a little easier. Seriously, if you have a clay bowl or plate shortage, you definitely shouldn't just use kindling to just fire charcoal.
Bottom line: people do NOT die from a lack of forging. People can die from a lack of starvation, and more food on plates makes it more difficult for people to starve who want to live. Even if you come back and insist that forging is for a useful water or soil supply, the water and soil supply are also in the end for food.
maybe turn in yum for a reward would work, like yum caps would be 5 or 10 or maybe 15, i dont see the purpose of having more than that, like seriously, you waste your life eating and not doing anything decent?
That doesn't make any sense at all. Players who yum chain as much as they can spend less time eating than players who don't yum chain at all, because players who yum chain eat fewer meals. Players who don't yum chain have to waste their life eating, because they have to eat more meals. At least assuming that overfilling the pip bar comes as equivalent and their temperature is the same.
Shift + Delete is instant death with the Awbz mod and you don't have to hear the starvation sound, or an animal bite to die. Next time you really don't like a family for any reason, I suggest you use it, instead of trying to kill of their lineage. It will appear as if you died by starvation, so they won't have any awareness of what you did especially if venture out of town.
I simply don't understand why you would play antagonistically instead of cooperatively. If you loved everyone, then you would always try to play as cooperatively as you could, or at least not get in anyone else's way when trying to do a project.
You dont HAVE TO choose between foods, its just more cost effective than not doing so, which people seem to greatly disregard in favor of a low reward yum bonus.
Yums helps the individuals that want to forget about eating for minutes and also helps females getting babies. And that is pretty much it.
betame did some math on yums and actually found that eating popcorn at the end of a mutton pie + berry +bowl of berries + bread + popcorn is better than eating just pie. But then again, stopping the chain at bread and starting it again is even better. A bite of popcorn takes 12 yum bonus to be as good as pie and at a higher cost. You don't offset this by adding the four wild foods as freebies to your yum value. In fact, you have to count on every single piece of popcorn being yumed in that manner for betame's math to even be true, which is just unlikely.
I swear, it's like you people are trying to convince me that you'd rather have 10 bucks with some spare change as a >bonus< than straight up having 50 bucks.
I've done lots of yum chaining, feels good to not eat for a while, but don't act like you are doing it for good resource management.
Your example doesn't feel realistic at all, and I suspect it contrived. If you have popcorn, you almost surely have shucked corn around. If you have mutton pie, you almost surely have carrots around (and you probably could have carrot pie also) also, or can rather soon. Popcorn without stew is possible, but also probably rare, so I suspect having stew around also likely. And perhaps multiple pie types also, though maybe you just won't cook those as you somehow said 'pie', which reduces eight different foods to one. It would be more interesting to know from an actual colony with all of the foods around, or quickly cooked possibly also, then these abstract theoretical calculations. I still suspect that yum chaining has more effectiveness for an actual settlement.
When I've done Eve runs, even before the bigserver updates, I've generally just kept on running if I see a snowbank for the reasons you've mentioned.
Also, I don't know if you know, but there exist several other public servers than the bigserver (and some others which are private) which you can find a list of here with their activity: http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report. To run that go to 'settings'. Then check on 'custom server', then the address is something like 'server[number].onehouronelife.com' such as 'server12.onehouronelife.com'. As long as the population remains low, you can probably Eve chain on those servers more easily, or you can more easily prevent griefing. I mean, if you're the only woman around, it comes as a fairly simple matter to never pick any children up, or only pick a child up when you know the person, or feel like taking more of a risk with someone. Or you might more easily carry your own knife... hopefully to slice bread and rubber trees (and the like) mostly... but you never know.
I think popcorn and green beans good foods. I wouldn't start a fire just to cook popcorn, but if you have one going making it makes for a huge bonus. I do agree that both whole milk and skim milk is a better use of corn *given that you have to choose between popcorn and milk*, if the settlement can spare a bucket or two and has cows (unless things have changed much, a lot of settlements get cows late). But other than that, I think I'd still take popcorn, green beans, and shucked corn over stew. The thing about popcorn, green beans, and shucked corn comes as that you can eat them and perhaps even eat something else with minimal to no overfilling of the pip bar for more yum earlier.
I will reiterate one thing. All of the discussions about the value of say stew versus mutton pie presume that a settlement has to choose between those two foods for some unknown reasons. That's the only context in which 'bad foods' makes sense to me. Seriously, with all this 'bad food' talk, a colony may as well all just eat wild berries since those regenerate, and thus a colony that theoretically ate only wild berries would, over time, would have the most food without spending water, soil, or kindling.
Also, the fastest path to having good yum probably isn't with milk, bread, and stew since bread requires a knife, milk requires a bucket, and stew requires three different crop types. The fastest path to having good yum consists of 7 out of the 8 pie types (excluding mutton pie which requires a knife), with the exception as mutton pie. The only thing that differs comes as collecting some wild or domestic berries in a bowl, and getting some wild or domestic carrots.
A few things I've picked up when actually attempting this which didn't get said before or I missed.
1. Trees sometimes stack. A rubber tree runs high, but only so high. So, it there exist two or three trees above the rubber tree, those probably should get cut to be able to see any mosquitoes above them. I think only two need to get cut to see everything, so if you have a stack of three rubber trees, the top two can get cut, leaving the third tree at the bottom. The same idea applies to other trees, but I think it's only one or two trees above non-rubber jungle type trees.
2. I occasionally will eat a mushroom during a game these days. At first I thought eating mushrooms near mosquitoes a bad idea. But, once I had a bunch of stuff on the ground to protect me I decided to eat one. It turned out that the mosquitoes became even more visible using the zoom mod when high! I can't say that's always the case. But, I think my experience might not be an exception.
3. I don't know if it's true, but for some reason I think that once mosquitoes can't expand past a certain area, it's easiest to move them one at a time to the desired area. You can stand next to an item, pick it up, then once the swarm moves block them from where they just moved.
4. Sometimes the bugs get buggy. They will simply stop moving when there exists a path less than 6 tiles. However, if you walk away from them and then come back, they might move then.
5. I don't know if it's true, but bugs have seemed more likely to move a smaller number of tiles than a larger number of tiles. Even if that's not true, once they can't move from some area, if you move them say 2 tiles instead of 6, that makes more likely you can throw an item back down before they move.
6. Finally, if you see them moving towards an area where you want to place an item down, but can't, then move. They probably won't get there in time once you can see them coming quickly enough.
Ooooh, I like that Spoonwood.
I'm currently building a house on One City Server, in a place others were avoiding because three mosquitoes had been concentrated into a small area of plains biome by the building of the massive library. I may end up planting some Maples around the 'quitos when I finally pin them to a single tile each. That seems more aesthetically pleasing than many of the other options.
(And yes, the mosquitoes were hovering consistently in the top left corner of the biome, just like we'd expect.)
And pein, it is a very useful and unique skill, nice to have since I'm terrible at smithing. Thanks for sharing all your insights so freely. Mosquito herding can be tedious, but it reminds me a bit of solving a complicated puzzle - and it's different every time.
What is One City Server? Is that server12?
Thanks again pein for all this information.
Thank you for this post BlueDiamond and to Pein for his/her response (though I find Pein a bit hard to read in some spots)! I've started a jungle settlement on a low population server recently, and no doubt I'll re-read this. Also, it made me think of making a sheep or cow pen with planted maples or poplars, which seems to me like getting two projects in progress at once! At least without any griefers or tree haters.
First of all, I want to preface this by saying that this is all just my opinion. Many might disagree with me, and that's ok!
Newcomen Atmospheric Engine Update, November 30th
I was personally disappointed with this update. The Newcomen Atmospheric Core parts are, in my mind, weirdly simple to make. One Hour One Life items often require many steps to make in order to be as realistic as possible, but the Newcomen parts are made by just hitting some iron bars with a hammer. The Newcomen Pump Tower itself is also just some wood on some rocks.Building the tower doesn't take very long, and once you finish building the tower, your reward more water - not very interesting. The fact that you need to use charcoal to get water is cool though, and I really enjoyed mass producing charcoal for the short time that it was relevant. The tower doesn't really change the gameplay, in fact it makes it worse - previously, when the village ran out of water, people would have to band together and bring water from the surrounding areas. Now water is infinite, so running out of water is much less likely to happen. This update didn't really change the gameplay loop, except that every now and then someone will make a Newcomen Pump.
I feel like you've glossed an important detail here, since rubber I don't think simple to make. It also requires multiple biomes in that you have to find a hot spring, a rubber tree, and a palm tree. If you're not in or near a desert with a hot spring that can mean either walking far away from home or using a horse and having to get it near a desert or fence it near a desert. So, I don't see how that Newcomen tech ends up as simple to make as you suggest, even the newcomen pump. And the whole process of making rubber I think qualifies as complicated.
I think I agree with the rest of your post though.
Thanks Multilife! That was very interesting to read!
I doubt I could agree more with CrazyEddie on this one. Others including DestinyCall have good points.
Bob, maybe you have some competentence at certain things in this game. But, stop playing as a woman. You are not cut out for that role at present. Even your test for children makes for a bad idea. Making a fire in the middle of a desert isn't good for anyone. You have used kindling, and maybe the child just doesn't move because you have intentionally done something stupid, and they are pissed at you. What a waste of kindling and a tool to make that fire. Do you know about 'shift + delete' with the mod? You never know when someone quits on you who can play well, because you were a negligent parent pissing them off. Here's the catch: when someone uses "shift + delete" to die with the mod, the family tree says they died by starvation. But the player didn't starve, he or she suicided for someone reason.
Babies who run away from where their mothers leave them also might be runners, who run away to die instead of wanting to clutter up the place with their bones. Testing babies also doesn't let anyone develop in their knowledge or skill level of the game. And probably you did a bunch of stupid things as a baby when first learning the game. Also, sometimes the game doesn't load quickly. Regardless of where my skill level actually lies, I've heard the crying sound BEFORE I can see the map I don't know how many times. So, maybe the baby didn't run because they didn't see the map. You lose time that you could be doing other things by watching to see how children react to your tests, or even holding the baby and communicating to them where biomes lie or what might get done. Or giving the baby a tour of the town so they can find things more easily later. Finally, if you plan on testing children, try something going to the grassland with clothing and drop the clothing on the ground and see if the baby tries to tell you to put the clothing on them. Oh, but you're going to be cold? But, there can be uses of going to the grassland, since there may exist resources or wild food that can get brought back to camp to increase the colony's yum, or your yum, or bring home rocks, or show the baby what the grassland looks like so he or she might find things more easily. See how that works? You can end up testing the child, showing them more territory, and even bringing home something, effectively doing multiple things at once, instead of just being someone who makes a fire in the middle of a desert... a telltale sign of a newer player.
Players like you make for one reason why I have to decided to keep on running if I see a decent spot next to a snowbank. Someone will mess it up somehow beyond the difficulty of already living near a tundra, whether it be with multiple snowmen in bad spots, or "snowball abortions" when you could have just refused to pick any children up, which doesn't cost any time or food.
And again, stop being a mom with your attitude. Or at least for a while until you quit with your snowball abortions and the like.
I see myself as Eve, the creator of the camp and I feel responsible for setting things up so that the future generations can actually survive. Long term survival is my main goal. I have a set of tasks and I need to do them in a limited time and if I don't, the camp most likely dies out.
You're suggesting that I take time out of these tasks and devote them to teaching people. I could do that. But it would mean that absolutely essential stuff doesn't get done.
I can see that there's a trade off where teaching increases productivity and I'm ok with trying to go for a bit more teaching. I'm just not willing to do it at the cost of the camp's future.I guess this made me realize that I am not building my camps for newbies to live in. I build them for people that at least know how to survive. Maybe newbie isn't even the right word. I mean unwilling-to-learn-people. Because a newbie that is willing to learn can stop being a newbie within a day or two. A person unwilling to learn never advances from the newbie state, basically. And those are the kind of people I don't want to waste my time on and I don't think that's gonna change.
Two stories:
My first, what I would call 'successful', Eve run I only had one girl as I recall who I fed. She told me she was new. I said that's o. k. She helped me build a farm. The settlement lasted 20 generations, and I saw someone else play that family later on, on Twitch. They had a pump and he thought they were doing super well. I didn't make steel tools, and I'm not sure I even got any iron. I hadn't made any steel tools myself then in any situation as I recall, and even if I had, I think the farming and food approach first (I cooked eggs and usually do) was the right thing to do (I think I went boar hunting some also... I knew about that problem).
I had a spot where I had multiple children. I think my first children told me she was new and asked 'where is food?'. I showed her the banana bushes which were virtually on top of. She asked me what to do, so I told her to get branches, preferably a pump beam kit. I really just wanted enough kindling for the first fire and that was it. She brings home I think four branches, but they are somehow yew branches... the best to pick if doing them one at a time! Then she asks me what else. I wanted like 3 more clay before I started clay firing, and was still in the process of getting ready. She then tells me that she can't get any clay, because she's not old enough. I'm completely confused and go with her to the clay pit. She's trying to use a basket to empty it out, because, I guess, it looks somewhat like a fertile soil pit. So I tell her to use her hand. She then uses one of the baskets I made (I always try to get my children some baskets... I've learned it best to try to make a basket in the same trip as when I go out to the swamp for clay or adobe... though for a while I may have just been making a basket for each new child), and brings home more than enough clay that I could fire... and I will almost invariably let the first fire go out and cook eggs. What happened with the colony? I got reborn like a dozen or so generations later, and the settlement is doing fine. Some other family actually came by and joined my family at some point in the settlement, and they don't seem to have any major problems.
Sure, if you have all new players as children, your lineage probably ends up doomed. But even then not necessarily. All families need in this game is security from animals that can kill you and the ability to keep their pip bars above zero. I suspect that you take a blacksmithing approach to being an Eve, so I'll write the following with that in mind. Your children can't build a farm, suggesting them as newbies? Adapt. Forget about getting any branches beyond when you need for the first fire. Fire up a clay nozzle and two bowls... that's it..., and get started on farming if you feel concerned about their skill level (I did it once when my first child threw soil right above my kiln before I had made a fire). Forget gathering iron, let alone making an axe as an Eve. It isn't like the axe will substantial use if the fire goes out anyways. A shovel? But that won't have enough value until stones get collected (sure digging up tule stumps is nice and the nearby soil pit early, but neither is as bad as your children starving). And a shovel isn't necessary until all nearby ponds dry out or can't get found. Build them a farm and hope someone figures out how to eat or to tend to it, and hope their children can clean up or improve any mess. Get wild food for them also.
And finally, there is no set of tasks that you must get done for your lineage to survive. There exist Eves with decent families who don't even build a kiln, let alone fire clay. Haven't you heard of the 'child Eve' start? Basically in that you're the daughter of some Eve and she dies early. She might not even have a sharp stone. Her lineage still survives, because her daughter has a daughter who lives or she finds a spot and builds something with her children.
