a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
this also drives me crazy, when people don't know how to gather. If you're in a new camp and it isn't obvious what to do, grab a berry and go look for basket materials, and then gather. Even just running back with 3 berries to set on the ground can be crucial to allow people to stay at the camp long enough to accomplish something.
It's better to gather onions or bananas or cactus fruit. Also, burdock if you know about a sharp stone, which the tutorial does teach you. I have sometimes complained to my children if they bring home berries in a basket to speak honestly. Now I will only complain to my children about getting berries in a basket if we don't have a clay bowl. If a single clay bowl lies around, berries should simply not get gathered in a basket. Berries not in a clay bowl decay within a certain time period. So, berries on the ground might go to waste if they do not get eaten or split into seeds immediately, and since berries take 12 minutes to grow, while corn, carrots, and green beans take only 4 minutes to grow, growing corn, carrots, or green beans can work better if players know how to eat those foods.
I wanted to make my mother's life easier for her so I went out into the wilderness to collect materials so we could do things for ourselves and we wouldn't have to resort to stealing, I made myself a basket and collected things, I made some ovens for food and collected some carrot seeds for our farm and made my last theft from the south village of a single wheat seed so we could produce our own.
Did you make multiple ovens or did you mean made what the game calls an 'oven' and you think of it as multiple ovens?
Berry pies and potatoes. It's a little early to be speaking of such bad things in any sort of good grace unless we're trying to make an April fools joke.
If your population is going through the steps to eat different foods sure making a few berry pies and baked potatoes is great however if you're not playing with a small group or playing on the main server making these things are bad.
I wasn't making an April Fools joke. Your last comment especially indicates that you don't believe that players on the main server won't take the steps to eat different foods or learn to do so. Both berry pies and potatoes are good foods. Sure, potatoes cost shovel charges, but just convert how many dug graves you see in a main server game into potatoes. At least you didn't say something as silly as:
Yum is a toy.
To the person who said that:
+10 yum often isn't all that difficult after a few generations. That's (+ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) = 55 bars of food that a player doesn't have to eat if not overfilling their pip bar, or doing so just as much as they would otherwise. That's the equivalent of 11 berries with no yum and almost an entire mutton pie plate.
Wild food yum meaning a berry, a wild carrot, a burdock, an onion, a banana, and a cactus fruit is (+ 1 2 3 4 5) = 15 yum. That's an entire mutton pie bite that a player won't have to eat. Throw in a potato and half baked potato and that's (+ 15 6 7) = 28 yum. That's almost two bites of a mutton pie possible on a trip with extra space clear to take something else home. And it's even better if a yum chain gets started with domestic foods at home like a berry in a bowl or something.
Spoonwood wrote:I think that every cooked food is more efficient than the raw form, including berry pie.
Berry pies are a poor time investment, because they require more processing for hardly any benefit. Using the wheat to make meat pies would provide much more food with a lower resource and labour cost. The potential for a yum bonus is not a good enough to make berry pies worth making, unless you have run out of options. It is a waste of time and berries.
Some foods are ONLY good for yum bonus and entertainment value. Berry pies and mango slices and baked potatoes fall into this category. Never try to feed a whole village with mango slices ...
I disagree. I really don't like the sound of 'only good for yum bonus', because the more the yum bonus gets used without overfilling of the pip bar too much when eating, the more that can get done and get done with less eating (at least... given that foods aren't too far away from each other). Berry pies are still worthy making. They just come as "worst" type of pie.
Also, I disagree strongly about potatoes. A strong use of potatoes, which isn't possible with other foods, is for long trips. Unlike most other foods which gives you 13 bars of time, a whole potato does not require a bowl or plate to stay on. I say 13 bars, because it's 6 pips for the first bite and effectively 6 pips for the second bite plus the yum bonus. So, if both bites get eaten on a trip, that clears up space in one's backpack or basket for more to bring home and can fill one up before heading for home. Potatoes qualify as better than any other food for long trips given that a player tries to keep his or her yum chain going and wants to bring home as much as possible. And keeping a yum chain going on a long trip can help out a lot.
Mangoes qualify as an intergenerational project, and I had to learn how to grow mango trees. Mango trees probably should be the last new type of thing planted, unless you feel sure that the water supply has gotten under control, and you have descendants who you believe will know how to grow them. I think I agree on those, since so many other foods can easily and can also effectively get made earlier that even eating mangoes for yum probably isn't worth the time, at least for players trying to minimize, as much as reasonable, overfilling their pip bar when eating food. I think I agree on those.
"Staple efficient foods."
I think that every cooked food is more efficient than the raw form, including berry pie. Also, if we want to talk about water and soil, we should talk a little about turkeys, cooked rabbits, cooked mutton from wild sources (which also can yield mouflon hide in the process for anyone likely to be moving through cold areas), and eggs. Eggs especially since they don't have other uses and the eggs regenerate over time... especially if you have enough ponds. Sure, maybe things get a bit more cramped with eggs, but inconvenience of space is better than starvation. Additionally, animals are less likely to harm people in cluttered villages, because animals can't harm anyone standing on an item.
DestinyCall wrote:But do not make any pies with berry. It is wasteful and, since all the pies look alike, it is too hard for people to tell them apart for yum purposes. It would be better to provide obvious pie alternatives, like stew or burritos, rather than six different types of identical-looking pies.
This is a good warning to share. Between all the available foods now, only 4 turn out to be "food loss" recipes for a village: Rabbit Berry Pie (-56 pips), Rabbit Berry Carrot Pie (-52 pips), Buttered Bread with Skim Milk (-28 pips), and Bean Burritos (-9 pips).
A cooked rabbit is 10 pips. 6 berries in a bowl is 30 pips. So, 40 pips for a rabbit and a bowl of berries. Each bite of a berry rabbit pie is 18 pips. So, a berry rabbit pie plate is 72 pips. Even not accounting for yum, where is the pip loss? Sounds like pip gain of (72 - 40) = 32 pips. Sure, they might get overeaten, but 32/4 = 8. So, the break even point on each bite of a berry rabbit pies is eating a berry rabbit pie when down (18 - 8) = 10 pips. If down more, the berry rabbit pies beat out the other two foods. Alright, so we account for yum. But, your settlement probably still has berries and has berry rabbit pies, so that evens out. Sure seems like berry rabbit pies win.
A cooked rabbit is 10 pips. 6 berries in a bowl is 30 pips. A carrot is 7 pips. So, 47 pips. Rabbit berry carrot pie is 20 pips per bite. So, the plate is 80 pips. Sounds like a pip gain of (80 - 47) = 33 pips. That's a little more than 8 extra pips per bite (33 / 4). So, the break even point is eating a berry rabbit carrot pie is eating when down (20 - 8) = 12 pips. Eating down more than 12 pips makes the rabbit berry carrot pie even better. Again, your colony has or fairly quickly can have berries and carrots still. Both foods are wild. So, again it seems like the pie wins.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that skim milk is somehow wasteful. Were you comparing it to whole milk? Alright, maybe whole milk probably should come before skim milk. But, shucked corn is a mere 5 pips. Each bowl of skim milk is 8 pips. A whole bucket of fluid minus one (for the cream) is exactly how many bowls? It's at least 6, right? So, if it's only six, and I think it's more, that's 48 pips from skim milk. Your settlement probably has shucked corn also. So, this really isn't close. The difficulties lie in getting a suitable structure up for cows and getting the necessary tools for buckets for milk and/or getting your hands on a bow and two arrows. The math seems overwhelming really. The berry pies I talked about above have the drawback in that fewer bites exist (4 for each pie, and 7 or 8 for the raw foods), so not as many mouths could get fed. This doesn't exist with skim milk. More bites... er... drinks exist with skim milk. Skim milk wins by a landslide.
A bowl of green beans has 6 bites. Each bite is 4 pips. So, that's 24 pips. A bowl of cooked beans can turn into 6 bean burritos with the wheat. Bean burritos are 19 pips. That's 6 servings of bean burritos for 19 pips each, correct? That's a whopping 114 pips. (114 - 24) = 90 pip increase! The same number of bites for green beans and bean burritos. Sure seems like a massive pip gain to me, and what is the drawback? Sure you have to find the flat rocks, and set up a production line, cook those beans over hot coals hopefully not use the main fire which unfortunately went out to hot coals, have plates, and use wheat. But, so what. 90 pip increase and the same number of mouths to feed!
A bowl of berries is 30 pips. Each bite of a berry pie is 12 pips. So, a berry pie plate is 48 pips. That's a gain of (48 - 30) = 18 pips, which still gives (18 / 4) = a little more than 4 extra pips per bite. So, the break even point is eating a berry pie when down 8 pips, and if more, up to twelve, berry pie has even more benefits.
Alright, so the above ignores the wheat, correct? Each bite of bread is 8 pips, and there exist 8 bites on a plate. So, 64 less for each one, and even skim milk I think still overwhelming still good, I'll ignore it. Edit: Wait... wheat is either 4 raw pie crusts or 6 wheat dough. Thus, I think the meaningful number is (64 / 4) = 16 for each pie plate and (16 + 8) = 24 for a full bean burrito plate. Now, that's (32 - 16) = 16 for rabbit berry pie, (33 - 16) = 17 for rabbit berry carrot pie, (90 - 24) = 66 for bean burritos, and (18 - 16) = 2 for berry pie. But now that's all bread and less yum, because you probably still have berries or carrots or can get them from wild sources. Also, the bread will have to take time rise in bowls, unlike filling up a bowl, mashing it if needed, and then dumping it out onto a plate. So, just making bread will require more clay, and more time before cooking can get started. Even berry pie still ends up as worth it in terms of efficiency. The only deficiency is that vegetables in pies means fewer mouths can get fed at a time, but if people look for wild foods, I'm not sure that's so much of a problem.
Also, with those berry and carrot pies once those berries get onto a plate, someone can get started on regrowing those foods. Processing mutton into mutton meat is a more time consuming process than any other pie type, since sheep need to get sheared, killed, and cleaned up.
fragilityh14 wrote:At the very least, it's of enough value to vary up the pie types and have different foods around camp. Also, having a more diverse food system is generally more stable and more fun.
I strongly agree with providing a varied food supply for yum bonus, after the bakery is well-stocked with mutton pies. Meat pies (and milk) are the most labor/resource efficient foods in the game, so they should be the staple food of anyone who is NOT actively managing their yum bonus. But if your vlage has enough food variety to allow people to get +10 yum or higher ... it is awesome. Especially for the elderly, who normally struggle to work in their last ten years of life.
One word of caution, however. When it comes to pie variety, aim for mutton and rabbit pies first. Then make bread and cooked mutton. If you have enough carrots, you can make rabbit/carrot. But do not make any pies with berry. It is wasteful and, since all the pies look alike, it is too hard for people to tell them apart for yum purposes. It would be better to provide obvious pie alternatives, like stew or burritos, rather than six different types of identical-looking pies.
It can simply get done quicker and faster to make a variety of pie types than to only make meat pies and then make stew or burritos also. Also, where are those mutton pies coming from early on? I guess I've only do it in solo Eve runs, but I can easily imagine making 7 pie types before sheep in a more regular village. And if the badlands are close, or a mouflon is close enough it's possible to get all 8 pie types before sheep. 7 pie types plus berries, berry in a bowl, domestic carrots, popcorn, green beans, and shucked corn is well more than +10 yum before considering burdock, onions, cactus fruit, bananas, and wild carrots. That can also get done before a knife. I think 8 pies is enough to justify the use of kindling. The hard part though might be having those early rabbits, since sometimes prairies aren't close or no one wants to hunt a few rabbits.
Also, do you want more weaker players early on? Because encouraging people not to go for yum early on, I think, encourages more weaker players. Going for more yum, I think, will attract stronger players and encourage them to stay around, and they'll probably use those foods fairly well. Or at least that's my hope. I don't see enough to justify waiting to improve yum, other than waiting on things like potatoes, sauerkraut, and mangoes. And really I think a multiple pie approach might lead to more colonies getting things done earlier. If anything, mutton pie should be the last type of pie cooked.
All of this talk about bean burritos versus other foods considers individual foods in the abstract. Really, that math isn't accurate. Why? Because it doesn't account for yum at all. Making BOTH green beans and bean burritos in a life, I doubt would be all that difficult. One can start on the green beans, prepare the burritos, grab the beans, and then cook the burritos. Would that even take a decade? It's probably two more sources of yum for a colony. If someone complains about clay bowls with green beans, then just get them more clay. Clay doesn't decay, and it comes as hard to imagine a colony having too many clay bowls and plates (unless it doesn't have enough adobe I suppose).
Also, I couldn't disagree with the person more saying the following:
"If you have mutton or rabbit meat available, you should make meat pies."
Just no, simply no. I mean especially if it's not the all too common mutton and rabbit pie only. It's done all too often and often yucky. The cook should make rabbit pie, mutton pie, cooked mutton meat, berry pie, berry carrot pie, carrot pie, berry rabbit pie, carrot rabbit pie, berry rabbit pie, and bread or at least as many as those as the cook can get from one fire in an oven. If there exist multiple cooks, then two of each type. Oh... and cooking a turkey last also would be a good bonus, if a hunter got one home. Ignoring the mutton meat, that's still +8 yum over cooking only meat pies. That's also +8 for the last pie yum. So, in effect that (+ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) = 36 yum from cooking multiple types of foods. If players eat other things also, then that yum is even more beneficial and powerful. 45, 55, 66, 78, 91 yum and so on, and those multiple pie types can pay off. Pie yum farming can also start fairly early on.