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#451 Main Forum » [Suggestion]Sinew » 2018-03-10 16:48:58

Potjeh
Replies: 0

So I just played as Eve, and I had a game plan. I was going to make a fully clothed settlement, so people don't have to be eating 24/7 and have time to work on tech advancement. The rule would be simply that you can only keep a baby if you can immediately clothe them. So I set out to walk constantly west and pick any milkweed for sewing, discarding any kids born along the way. I lucked into finding a cart and a full set of clothes with two backpacks. I noticed that I'm getting kinda old so I had to stop and raise some kids before it's too late. Thing is, I only managed to scrounge together one rope and one thread in over half a lifetime. Had to use my rope for a snare so I can get furs and food, so that just left me able to make only one piece of clothing for two kids (kept a boy and a girl, was gonna raise boy to be trapper and girl to be farmer). I raised them to like 7-8 years old, then died at 44 waiting for fire to burn out so I can roast a rabbit, but that's besides the point. The problem was that this was a fairly green area, and there was still nowhere near enough milkweed for the two of them to get clothed even after one inherited my full set. And milkweed shortage only gets worse with age of a settlement, so it seems we're just doomed to languish naked and hungry.

Now, I don't mind that clothing is a struggle early on, but it should be a bit more accessible when you reach a higher tech level. I think a good level to get access to more thread would be bow and arrow tech. So what I'd like to see is something like this: skinned mouflon + flint chip -> sinew, sinew + flat rock -> sinew on flat rock, sinew on flat rock + round rock -> thread. Crafting tree inspired by this. From there:

What is Sinew?
Sinew can be obtained from the tendons of any mammal. Tendons are the tough stringy things that attach muscles to bones. When these tendons are processed into sinew they provide a wonderful material that can be used to make super strong cordage, good sewing thread, and they can be used as a binding twine to attach arrowheads, arrow fletchings, knife blades, spear points, drill points and etc. Sinew is as tough as nylon, and it is impregnated with its own natural glue that can be activated with a little moisture. Sinew shrinks a little when it dries so that is binds things together tightly. Sinew will last for hundreds of years if it is protected from moisture. In short, sinew is a super material that has no modern equivalent.

#453 Main Forum » [Suggestion]Nutritional variety » 2018-03-09 23:23:58

Potjeh
Replies: 0

I've watched a YouTube video about the game where Jason was talking about rabbit starvation, and I think this could be a neat thing to represent in game by making spammed food give less calories. This would also be good to ensure that no one food source can be the optimal choice and promote having variety of food industries in a village.

Example mechanic: game tracks last 10 items you've eaten. When you eat a new food item it checks how many of those items are in your eaten log, and you get between 50% (10/10 in log) and 200% (0/10 in log) calories.

#454 Re: Main Forum » Item stacking » 2018-03-09 22:44:02

That's what containers are for. We could use something inbetween baskets and boxes tech-wise, though. Maybe clay urns?

#455 Main Forum » [Suggestion]Slash and burn » 2018-03-09 20:09:43

Potjeh
Replies: 2

I can't say I'm a fan of the current soil system, both due to aesthetics and game mechanics. I think we already have enough wandering around looking for resource spots and could use more mechanics for strategic long term management of seemingly abundant local resources of a new settlement. To that end, I'd like to see replacement of fertile soil pits with slash and burn fertilization mechanics.

Namely, you'd cut down a tree and set the whole chopped tree on fire. After it burns out it grants fertility to tiles in a small radius. Fertility would be a tile property that you could see on mouseover on tilled soil. Each harvest from a tile would deplete fertility a bit, and crop yield would decrease with fertility until nothing can grow after about seven or eight harvests. To restore fertility you'd need to plant a tree, wait a generation or two for it to grow and then cut it down and burn it. Compost could be a quicker, but a lot more resource and labor intensive alternative.

The actual tree growth speed could be influenced by the fertility of the tile they're planted on, and maybe totally depleted tiles wouldn't let trees grow at all so you'd have to use compost to restore a badly damaged area.

In addition to slash an burn crop rotation could be used to extend the lifetime of fields somewhat. Some crops like beans could restore fertility, but to put a limit on it there'd be a cap on how much they can restore that drops with the number of harvests on the field, so you eventually have to grow trees again.

The idea is to make crop maintenance more of a multi-generational endeavor. It'd be hard to plan properly for future growth, so many civilizations would wind up with depleted soil and depleted forests. Competing for timber with other industries would be an easy point of failure. And with the slow growth of trees communities would need to claim larger chunks of land, leading to potential for conflict with neighboring communities.

As far as soil tilling is concerned, I think it's a bit too easy now. It's kinda silly how you can skip fire and get straight to farming if you run into a clay bowl or water skin. IMO farming should require a bit higher tech level, so I think you should need at least a shovel to till those fertile tiles. Of course, requiring metal industry for farming (you need axe to begin with) is a bit too much, so I think stone axe and wood shovel should be able to do the job. Maybe lower grade tools would instantly deplete a couple of points of hunger when used. Heck, even metal shovel should use some hunger for tilling, so you'd need a bull and a plow to efficiently farm on large scale. To make this really relevant, all crops should untill soil on harvest, so you have to retill for each planting.

Besides making for IMO more interesting mechanics, this would be a lot more historically accurate and we could realistically recreate historic ecological disasters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash-and-burn wrote:

Southern European Mediterranean climates have favored evergreen and deciduous forests. With slash-and-burn agriculture, this type of forest was less able to regenerate than those north of the Alps. Although in northern Europe one crop was usually harvested before grass was allowed to grow, in southern Europe it was more common to exhaust the soil by farming it for several years.

Classical authors mentioned large forests,[11] with Homer writing about "wooded Samothrace," Zakynthos, Sicily, and other woodlands.[12] These authors indicated that the Mediterranean area once had more forest; much had already been lost, and the remainder was primarily in the mountains.[13]

Although parts of Europe aside from the north remained wooded, by the Roman Iron and early Viking Ages, forests were drastically reduced and settlements regularly moved.

#456 Re: Main Forum » Thoughts on new March 8th, 2018 update » 2018-03-09 19:26:27

I think new hunger wouldn't be as bad if clothing was a little easier to get. Even in fairly advanced settlements it's hard to stockpile furs because people need so many of them for everything, so I mostly wind up playing naked even though I'm trapping rabbits full time. And don't even get me started on thread.

#457 Re: Main Forum » Looking at the viability of sustainable farms to build villages. » 2018-03-09 15:58:27

Eves should still spawn near these new settlements if I'm not mistaken. And they have a good chance of picking the right direction to go if they just choose one randomly.

#458 Re: Main Forum » Looking at the viability of sustainable farms to build villages. » 2018-03-09 15:41:35

So you respawn a couple of times until you luck into a good village. That's kinda already happening as it is.

#459 Re: Main Forum » Looking at the viability of sustainable farms to build villages. » 2018-03-09 15:24:40

Won't they spawn at the new location though? Especially if you trash everything you're not bringing with you.

#460 Re: Main Forum » Looking at the viability of sustainable farms to build villages. » 2018-03-09 15:19:41

Wouldn't it make more sense to just pack valuables in wheelbarrows and move to a fresh area once soil runs out? Seems less resource intensive than making compost.

#461 Re: Main Forum » Feature Request - Names, names, and NAMES! » 2018-03-09 15:00:27

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, you can't mouse over someone in real life to learn their name..

IRL you can tell people apart by their faces, though, whereas in game it's doppelgangers upon dopperlgangers. Maybe knowing somebody's real name without asking is a bit immersion breaking, but at least let us nickname all the people we meet.

#462 Re: Main Forum » Drop in eating bonus: What are your thoughts? » 2018-03-09 11:12:40

Milkweed is next to nonexistent, so clothing is kinda hard to make.

#463 Re: Main Forum » (suggestion) a change to respawns » 2018-03-09 11:09:20

I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's totally doable to keep playing in the same place.
1) Make a clan
2) Have all y'all in voice chat
3) Spam rebirthing and running into woods to die until you spawn in your clan
4) Clan discards any babies that aren't clan members to save room for members
Not only would this let you group, but would make your group a lot more efficient thanks to everyone knowing everyone and having means of communication vastly superior to in-game ones.

#464 Re: News » Everything runs out » 2018-03-09 10:59:02

Also, a big concern with permanently ruining land is malicious players. If it's this easy to do it accidentally, imagine the scale of destruction caused by somebody who both knows what they're doing and wants to cause as much damage as possible.

#465 Re: News » Everything runs out » 2018-03-09 00:03:45

I think you might be overestimating efficiency of randomly grouped people with limited communication abilities. Villages are virtually guaranteed to mismanage their resources, and leaving uninhabitable areas behind, without trees or water, will just lead to starting fresh being the only option. IMO the "wait an hour" issue is the lesser evil. A way to nerf that could be introducing decay, so waiting for resources to replenish would lower the tech level of the area you're waiting on. I think it's a bit too easy to pick up after a long gone civilization anyway. And it makes sense for food to spoil and wood to rot. Heck, given enough time metal will rust away and even buildings will collapse. And it's unsightly how much random trash is strewn across the world. Plus I reckon it'd make things easier on the servers if old items were culled.

I definitely agree on being forced to climb the tech tree, though. Ponds shouldn't replenish fast enough in a reasonably local area to indefinitely sustain a small farming community. A well should be enough for one, but building wells should require a bit bigger community with more specialized roles for making the materials. This community would deplete a well faster than the groundwater would replenish, so you'd need an even bigger community to build an aqueduct from a nearby spring, etc. Now, the issue is that you can have the well building civilization collapse and a new small community taking the well and being sustainable indefinitely, or  simply the civilization contracting after building their infrastructure so they can sit on it forever. This is where decay can help, because the well will eventually collapse and they'll be down to unsustainable pond regeneration. In other words, climbing the tech tree should require a large and sustained civilization, rather than short bursts of advancement continuing from previous such bursts (ie a series of dead civilizations). I do like the idea of getting some use out of marvels of a lost civilization that you can't recreate or even properly maintain yet. So maybe decay for infrastructure could be usage based, that way it won't be all gone and reverted to basically a fresh start if it takes a bit too long before somebody reclaims the site.

Also, once a community reaches a certain size it's virtually guaranteed to implode even without external stresses. Size combined with lots of specialization and poor awareness of what exactly other people are doing is sure to breed distrust so civilizations will easily collapse for purely political reasons. Efficiency generally drops with size of a group, so people will feel like others are freeloading even if they're not. And it's all cranked up by the way in which communities gain and lose members, and the administrative nightmare it is to get the new members into correct roles.

#466 Main Forum » [Suggestion]Flax and beans » 2018-03-08 21:18:11

Potjeh
Replies: 3

I've noticed that the rarest thing in most settlements is thread, so most people run around naked. I guess the main problem is that milkweed is too easy to exterminate accidentally. I think it's fine for fresh settlements so I wouldn't buff milkweed, but instead I think established villages need a more reliable crop for growing their own thread. Flax is one of the earliest crops humans cultivated, so it's the logical choice. It can also have additional functionality with it's seeds which are edible and are also used for making oil IRL (could be used for some higher tech stuff in the game). I'm thinking flax should work like wheat, ie deplete the soil, to not make it too easy, but it should have a decent yield, maybe two threads and two seeds per patch. And impossible to harvest at the wrong time, pretty please.

Speaking of soil depletion, I think it's a bit silly we have to keep refilling wheat fields with fresh fertile soil, we'd get huge mounds in just a couple of harvests tongue. Instead I think it'd be cool if instead of disappearing tilled soil turned into fallow tilled soil. Fallow could still be turned to fertile by dumping fertile soil, but we could also restore it via crop rotation. And that's where beans come in, because they're used IRL for binding nitrogen into the soil. The beans themselves should have mediocre yield and require cooking to eat (needs a whole boiling water tech tree), so they don't become *the* food crop, their main use should be soil restoration. Additionally, soil could be refertilised with manure, but I'm not sure if excrement in general is off the table.

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