a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Personal property is rather iffy when it comes to it. You spend 60minutes working and eating rather than sitting in your home worrying about your property. Personal level property...probably not feasable with erryone having a house, a mango tree, a milkcow and its own fire and bear rug.
The closest thing we have, and should focus on is property that was naturally estabilished in the game, through workstations. Workstations often share the same item types, but a certain amount of items belongs to a workstation, and people usually do not like when those items get taken.
These slabs belong to the smithy. These plates belong to the smithy too, this bucket belongs to the kitchen and this bucket belongs to the milkweed farm.
And people SURE DO get angry when those items disappear, they belong to the workstation.
But this time, since all items are the same, we can only know something is wrong by the missing items. And all you can do is steal back from another workstation and tell everyone to stop taking and hope it works.
Imagine the solutions when all the water buckets disapear. Which belong to the farm? Where did they poof?
All bowls are gone from the soup station! You are starving!
So...
dye canvas and cut it in strips, wrap strips around tools and dye.
add green, orange, purple dye.
Glaze clayware to diffefent colours.
Paint wood like buckets.
Smithy is blue, kitchen is orange and farm is white. Cow buckets are white, the milkweed hoe is blue, the soup hoe is orange...The soup bowls are porcelain. (and porcelain can only good finished food?)
This time if a smith sees a missing plate, if he sees somebody running around with a plate...and it's blue!
Oh boy a scolding is comming. It'll help both organise and keep order. Or imagine a person running around with an unmarked knife that does not belong to the shepherd or cook.
Boy. Your eyes are not decieving you.
Well.
That's all I have to say.
Suppose we had more wildlife. Flocks of birds that start gobbling up seeds if too many are oresent in a region and not in a building.
If population is high, racoons or monkeys that eatup unprotected food or steal tools and bowls
Granaries were built to not only store but protect.. This might be incentive too.
Also they should only ever be in issue if the village enters 'excess' mode.
This way eve camps remain safe and forces more complex camps to devise extra stirage options for food and designated places.
Also give high capacity sacks ;( please. Ir 9 item shelves and tables. To make houses prettier. People either make useful or pretty things
central or floor heating would be good, really good.
Imagine connecting piping to houses for water and a setup of radiators. Radiators could be placed along the walls and take up minimal/no space but provide ideal/adjustable heat. (ac alternatives too)
Definitely higher tech to fuel the whole system.
And the bakery? Why have a fire in a house with wooden flooring? let us make packs of matches with multi uses.
Also. Baby cribs. Prevent them from moving untill a certain age. there.
Macro trade was definitely a thing that happned in the olden days (touchstones tended to travel from one end of the world to another through multiple generations, and let's not talk about the buddha statue in a viking ruin) Long distance trade happned in the bronze age for example, however they happned in incriments with many towns made along the way (image town A, town B and between town AB that's mostly a trading hub). If there were transport options for multiple people and multiple goods, travel of entire families would in fact become much easier for people if they could go out and set up an advanced camp instantly, giving some space to more specialised communes within a city complex that don't require generations to fully take off.
For less local general trade and more local, well i don't think it'll be easy to implement since everyone will keep trading for efficiency. Well in a way, everyone is kind of sharing. Everyone does their part in the village and contributes to it, and the part they contribute gives them right to benefit from the other parts.
I mean the smith won't withold a hoe from the farmer if the farmer can't give him three pies because he knows if the farmer don't farm, the village will get disorderly(replace this with anything else important). The best villages are those that run smoothly like butter with least conflict and those will end up living the longest.
Maybe have some resources benefit from being REFINED and CONVERTED on the spot of acquisition, which then makes it far easier to return back to the village, but this would only work for long time exploitable resources. Which COULD possibly is my best guess form some more independant entities within a bloodline with their own space within a larger commune. Since there is actualyl a physical land barrier from one end to another, it's not as much of a mess of everyone is running everywhere and taking everywhere.
Iron veins at their current state don't cut it, they'd need to be upgraded long term to make it a necessity to build a small commune where you'd haul pie and soup ingredients for the workers and haul back some form of easily transportable iron pack for the town that's far better than just stacking baskets with iron ore.
Moe spots like that perhaps. quarries, yet give us quarries, give us all the flat rock and other stone debree. Or maybe also some large potter's fields where en masse clay is gathered. Why you'd want a kiln there to stack all those nice paltes n bowls should be obvious. Maybe it should require so much work it's an effor of an entire family unit. (branch of the bloodline)
The swiftfooted caravan master arrives at the forges, his cart empty. He inquires the head backsmith for tools/iron for his blacksmiths.
The head blacksmith matriarch of the family eyes his cart. Where is the pie she speaks before she promptly shuts and locks the door to the smithy.
What are the trader's options now?
He could've arrived with food, maybe he could've promised food. Or maybe he should bring back some warriors to retake the iron by force and reinstate another group there so the cycle resumes.
And what option do the forgers have? They need food, do they give in to the promise of food later or do they remain firm?
(But what prevents the smithing family from making their own food? No water, no ability to palce soil on badlands. hm.)
As for having regional variants...well I mean time by time, piece by piece. Lifestyle could be different so there doesen't need to be a way how to figure out how to force arable land on the snow biome, for example at least.
-/-
You know an even worse vision field around a baby would make...being a baby very scary time indeed, and also baby tours very unconvenient.
More emotions yes, even if it's fear.
But we'd then need better baby carrying options since it'll be even harder to make children survive (if people are trying to save their family, give them the resources to do so.) Quite a few babies are born in the middle of no-where, away from the safety of their mothers.
Gosh imagine being born while your mother is running around, you have no idea where she went or how she looks like, it's just blackness around your tiny bubble. any person picking you up is a stranger and taking care of you in this very scary time.
I think I as a man or old nana ended up 'stealing' away children from some women who then came back too late, wanting the lost child back..
Well, the child then wailed and kept running from their biological mother back to me screaming they are being kidnapped.
Boy that was hillarious xD
Also on the caring thing and bonds? Maybe people you spend a lot of time around give off some heat, have people like spending time next to eachother and maybe chatter will commence if it gives some benefit, or inquiries to go in pairs perhaps.
Returning to the village might help with better internal organisation.
Yes i think encouraging players to do things from ease (ie it is native in the area ad least cumbersome to do) is better at diversification than handfisting diversity.
A good road solution would be macadam road.
implement rare quarries from which rocks can be hauled by cart, which can be ground down and a single half ground down could satisfy 5 tiles, signifucantly improving roadmaking speed once a quarry is set up.
this also leaves up an option to upgrade them later. Many rural areas after dirt have macadam roads before they slowly got replaced to better.
Well. Early villages were sharing everything since everything was a communal effort.
Hmm. Have you tried nonlethal combat?
You can't protect your carrots unless you can defend them.
All we can do right now is:
1) run after and shout
2) run after them and kill them (can survive) and potentially die due murder cooldown.
Why can't i just slap the carrot off his mouth right there and then the moment he picks it up?
Then again he's probably the piemaker and will barr me off the kitchen ;(
Thing is this issue is multicomples!
organisation for better job distinction? Megsphones to help carry out orders and have actual central organisation?
a change of mentality of players? (esp those that only workworkwork and yell at those that immerse themselves in lives)
Honestly try this.
Get born as twins to an Eve.
Split up as you grow hair and survive and make your 'eve' camps.
Start telling your kids about the evil of your twin and the same should be done on the other side.
Colour code yourself red or blue.
See if the conflict stays through generations.
Grofit.
I think simply the 'bush' aesthetic is enough for me. Even though rose pens are absolutely gorgeous i had to employ my daughter Rose to finish one small one beside the kitchen because I decided to make it too late in my life.
You betcha I was happy when I saw my daughter's last words were "This is Rose, our milk cow."
Next time I'm trying this and turning it into a pooch pen.
I like the gamey versions...but like tarr i think they'd get boring. But I would like to see an attempt at them regardless
they'll be good fun every so often.
And on making people really care.
Well like in real life, people don't care about people just because they share a surname. They care because they make a bond. Make caring about others more lucrative, make caring for your imediate family more rewarding.
Implement life/gene karma? If you toss a baby at a mosquito or bear or wolf or stab it you get some points to count up % to gain 'inborn malfunctions' in your next life...like say... Deafness, shortsightedness, crooked limbs, crippling disabilities. This should not count for die babies or babies that were running while dying or far from the mother maybe. ? Should get neg gene karma fir suiciding I think.
Maybe get + points for how much your own descendants flourish in the game, how much high tech they/you craft etc. And you get small boons like shock resistance, slightly faster speed, a slightly larger view plane, slightly slower hunger rate...
You know, small things that add up.
Also im one of those people that play 1-3 lives on a weekend lol. I can definitely say there probably is at least one life I can go hell on explaining.
If the graves become a thing, we have to think about the wider inplications for present and future.
I like this a lot.
Might be a good endaveor to kickstart wolf pens.
I used to slave them out with roses.
Please. Spoonwood.
There is the universal language of music as the most static emotion coercer.
I as a person of the craft know the theory behind why and how such feelings happen, how to simulate, how to build tension. You know people actually created academic courses and even vocational classes about that? Sure emotions vary, but within a margin or duality, but it is a visible pattern of reaction. Drawings games movies are a more complex language than music, less primal, less basal.
But still they put us on emotional rolercoasters. Dissapoint, sadness, tension.
We used to have native stone graves, got nice stone cutters in the mediteran, but they did not last forever.
They aged.
Now its all marble..a marvle to look at, itll last fo sure, but its also foreign. Families would try to one up eachother nowdays.
I think weather you can return or not should not depend on what your descendants or relatives do, but depend on your own actions.
If you put a lotta love in it? You'll probably keep putting more love into it. Other people are a wildcard and might either garner you an extra /die if you wanna get away from that hellhole.
jasonrohrer wrote:-//-
No. The design is the computer program. How I react to it depends on me. If I felt sad at the end of one of my "lives", then it's because I chose to think something like "my character has her time coming to an end."
False, you are not the master of your own emotions, but the environment is.
Art, entertainment, music can coerce and manipulate our emotions.
A game designer can coerce us into emotion, sucessfully or not, intentionally or not.
Sweet deal, will we also get the hatter's disease
?
I think the game is much better now than it was back then, because there is something on the line. We can screw this up, folks, and all this will be lost. And this does lead to more interesting stories. As the last elders dies out in a childless village, there's a real feeling there.... a real sense of despair.
So, more interesting, dramatic stories in individual towns, but less interesting, long-term stories between neighboring towns.
Many things are lost! And the family tree doesen't really tell much of what all happned in a bloodline
it's all hush hush untill people come up and tell their stories.
I sure do feel dread, and many other people do feel dread when we're the last, or feel sucess when we almost were the last. It's definitely in a good place.
Yes give us guard dogs lol dogs need some TLC but only limit the guarding ability to certain breeds.
I like the duality aspect. Might be interesting in preventing this thing nobody pointed out directly:
OOC-Meta-knowledge griefing. IF you can't get born in a family against which you are feuding, you can't internally grief it. That. There. That's very good jason.
However villages can move, and linages can too! ^^ how will that be solved?
some other thing
Very recently in the other thread I suggested something along the lines of only being reborn(wording: getting imediate priority to be born) to your IMEDIATE relations, that is...your own children, grandchildren etc., not your third cousin's children or any other people's children in your family tree.(maybe replace lineage ban with your distnt relatives ban)(or if male, your sister's children, grandchildren, great grandchildren?) This doesen't change spawning by much since it doesen't bar much, but it gives some incentive in this, if I take care of MY children or my sister's children, I can return to my village if I want to. (action -> reward)
(no barring from the family, but only if you give priority to your children over strangers)
It is I, Amon and it is NOT the weekend!
And also it is me, not quite sane-at-mind so please excuse my delirious ramble.
And I can definitely without reassurance say that I can easily, definitely say that I can reckognise my best friend by the way they gasp before entering the room... -enamored-
One more thing Jason, while parents unconditionally love their children, the same can't be said for further out relationships. The further apart people are, the less they'll care about eachother, unless a bond is estabilished. The divide starts when siblings grow their own families to invest to. The further apart you grow from your own personal unit, the less you'll care.
In this game too, some of us end up making close bonds with people, related or not. When I was a policeman my co-workers were my bond, there was this nurse/doctor in another life that was my bond and I cared about her more than my own family. when I was a man I had a strong bond with many children for I was their godfather. And they always sided with me nyehehehehe.
But here we go with the family. In the end of the day families split up further down you go, and you just won't care about your 6th cousin twice removed anymore, you'll be more invested in your imediate family and your partners. Really in the end of the day it's your personaly little family that maters, and for which you will root that it continues (I always feel sucessful when MY lineage survives to the 55s and not my sister's hahaha)
Here is some extra info/story from real life, i'm gonna change up some names.
My uncle whom I care about deeply is called Szymon Nowak (and another cousin whom started it all). In our village there is a anotherm an called Tomislav Nowak.
We're maybe related, maybe he's my third cousin once removed, maybe not. But whatever it is, it's only in the name and having a possible same ancestor didn't prevent them to squabble in a blood feud one family againt another with Szymon almost dying when Tomislav attacked him.
I'm not going to care about my X cousin X removed because that's unrealistic, unless we become friends.
We currently have villages consisting of one ancestor, and further down the line if the village is prolific it'll have many families...just with the same name. Having a devotion to the lineage is simply...unrealistic in the real life, or at least it is in the modern world.
People do want multi surname towns though.
The drama and conflict we go through is very good, I really love it, I would enjoy more, I'm personally a sucker for good IC drama. But currently the game is not at the right place to have it, but definitely right to try build towards it!
We need MORE us-vs-them mentality! We need more uniqueness, more personality!
We need more things that differentiate villags, more...things one village has and another village needs. This is solved by trade or war. (However having war be a thing would need to change some things around in regards to wound timers maybe, oh and behind the line battle medics? we can do those easy.)
Some things to consider are this:
-Everyone is pointing out that everyone looks the same. I agree, we need more more more more sprites
perhaps more limited ways how your children look like in the end of the day when enough variational sprites end up made? Haircolour variation for thr darker skins too, brown or blonde, they do happen in real life.
-We also need biome specific clothes! Besides sprites, the way to identify is through clothes too.
-Maybe allow for marriages and husbands? Might incentivise people to care more about one another (and a fertility boost to topple it off) You are MY man, why should I care about the men that are NOT mine? Unless they are my friend obv.
---> here we have it, ownership over things likely started through patriarchy I think, when men could identify who their own kid is and thus dedicate their work to solely them. You are MY children, MY wife, MY husband, therefore you, MY grandchild can inherit my clothes and bag and whatnot, the key to the city eh.
-> All the items in here also are not personalised, except for dyed clothes, dyed wool clothes are amazing, we need more, please?. They are basically all the same and you can't identify if said item is truly your's, that's why theft nowdays is easy, OHOL is like nowdays, all the items are the same, but in the olden-days when every item was custom and you instantly knew if your neighbor stole your watering can...ohoho.
-> further customiseable utility items. Give us glass-ware, or porcelain bowls that are paintable. Imagine what drama could arise if the blacksmith saw his plain clay plates in the kitchen when the kitchen is only supposed to use green-glazed plates. OH the drama if you actually knew when somebody could steal your itmes and you had the means to identify it. That's why animals were branded, to identify them. Said customisation should also be native per biome haha.
-> maybe the bloodline ban should only last for a single generation and granted if lived to 60 no mater how long past, after which you get granted priority to be born to one of your -own- decendants if elegible?? (or if you were male, your sister's or your wife's or your adopted child's??)(is this apropriate incentive to give priority to your OWN kin? (and not ..say...your third cousin))
-->Every village needs the same resources to succeede. Said resources are spread out in not too hard to get to biomes. Essentially every village in the end of the day is the same, needs the same resources and consumes the same resources.
-But you still are limited to said resources and every village needs ALL resources. There really is not much incentive for trade early in, unless a village specialises but if it doesen't trade it's done for.
*All resources necessary to jumpstart civilisation should be available in ANY biome. (That is, imo the way to start a fire, sustain it in an inefficient way, a kind of container and a means for food, for which you must work for) Those resouces however should be diversified, it should also be diversified how to build houses, out of what to build houses and how to acquire food.
-Desert villages, tundra villages, jungle villages, savannah villages etc. etc... All with different survival mechanics and ways of life. Yes iglos, wicker pens, sandstone houses, woden shacks, etc.
*Civilisation advancemenet resources should remain in far off biomes. *Better resources should perhaps be... well very rare once upon a moon sort of deal. (Lets say, a quarry spot(wouldn't it be nice to have more roads? Why isn't macadam a thing?), hemp, silk, better quality iron?? other necessary metals.) *Better resources should also say, include resources needed to advance civilisation even further than we can now, as well as provide well needed tech-locked QOL.
-Biome improvements would be necessary for this, as well as more in between biomes maybe? As well along with that, you shouldn't be biome hopping too much to get what you need to kickstart a civ to the point where trading/interconnecting becomes available, perhaps biomes should be far larger overall or consist of multiple sub-biomes with hteir own unique flair.
Sea and seafaring? One thing I know from history is this that civilisations started around rivers, and that in the ancient era of greece and rome, there were two contrasts:
-Living far in the heart of the land meant you were more secure but progressed slower.
-Living by the coastline meant that you progressed far better due trade, but were more likely to be and more easily discovered and hence raided. Rivers were also important traderoutes and roadways.
OHOL villages don't have distinctions. Some outposts however are made...say for oil. But they don't server much more than that.
Rivers would be AWESOME in this game, they could provide a means to water/fertile soil to early towns away from grasslands/swamps, and could be an important factor in technological advancement that could lead...to ...pollution downriver (say another village needs clean water that lives downriver...and now we have a conflict between two villages! or maybe a treaty to no polution or something else...)
-Maybe dog breeds should be changed to reflect this, certain breeds limited to certain biomes, not like how we have it now via wolfess birthing a line of dogs, that births a line of dog before we have consistent births.
Maybe she births two pariah dogs and a wolf, the pariah puppy, which taken home to a certain biome births a litter of puppies adapted to that biome (or two puppeis and one pariah). Those puppies when grown up, however will birth their breed puppies no matter the biome. (OR MAYBE NOT, think trading economics, perhaps its better for the seller if they don't birth designated pups, but it's better for the buyer that they do. option 1 is better only if dogs have a sufficiently long lifespan)
-Also dogs should be actually useful and follow their owner. Wether have herders shove positive benefits to herding animals, say pitbulls follow their owner and growl when a weapon is nearby. Hunting dogs hunt, tracking dogs track humans... This brings some more QOL people might want or trade for, else this is useless.
---> there's probably so much more different ways to build up an US-VS-THEM mentality. it already kinda happens in families on a smalelr scale...just potent it and incentivise them.
Also I am highly feverish and delirious so excuse me if the ramble is a bit messy
There's just like... way too many ways to aproach this, and the divesification would even potent the, every life is different aspect.
I would make pigs and cow shit just as Destiny said. This would leeway some pressure off from sheep being overfed for compost and the mentioned mutton and soil problems and spread it out to more animals that would now, hopefully take on more prominent roles (pork still needs better recipes to be viable. Pork pate????)
However with the more and more uses of wool the sheep pen will always be overflowing in manure now that adults poop too and we need the wool.
Perphaps only feeding adult sheep should produce manure? Hmm? And now there's a distinction if you want to focus your production towards meat or towards manure. (considering before the adult pooping it was lamb -> wool, meat, manure/ adult -> wool)
Feeding labs -> meat and wool
Feeding adults -> wool and manure
Yeah I really wonder why the heck sheep manure is used for composting in the first place. As far as I know, at least over here it's aged cow manure, (we let cow farmers mow our grasslands so they can feed their cows grass and from them we get some nice composted soil back for our gardens and grasslands.)
Also very fond of the improved composting box ideas still.
Alternatively.
HONESTLY I now as I write this realize I am also not very fond of how composting works here anyway. it's a 3 + water step process wich produces a lot of soil.
Generally a domestic compost pile was always added onto and in a continous production.
Perhaps one day we will have a nice box which will have a set amount of space and will accept any organic trash, ruined foods, banana peels, manure, hay... while continously converting them into compost on the end...
Glasswearm glass fruitbowls and goblets, some distinct high end containers for sorting =P