a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Would be cool to have the gasp and relief sounds for exiling and redemption.
Does eating pie remove the buff. I feel like you could travel so far if able to eat pie while it was active, but i imagine it cuts the following action. Anyone know for sure?
http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report
Not sure if this is what you're looking for. BS2 is short for big server 2 which most players are set to spawn to. 2hol is separate and i dont keep up with the goings on with it either. Heres a link that should give you an idea.
But then I think about what I would do if I wanted to help out for one of those situations. I would not only need to suicide to Ginger, I would also need to suicide to an appropriate town. That's more suiciding needed than before systemic racism got instituted for helping those people out I think. Anyone else thinking that such cases might be a cause of at least some of these suicides?
Yes. If it were not for race restrictions there would be no reason to /die. Since a towns survival hinges on having all three races i imagine this fuels a lot of SIDs. If you just had a life in a bell town and the last female in the black family was going to be old soon you might feel a dedication to go back to ensure the town survives.
Not saying this is a healthy tactic but it may be a necessary one in order to keep towns alive.
Before the race updates it didnt matter what race you were, every family had the same opportunities. Multifamily cities were a really rare and special thing.
I presumed it was hoe, shovel, shears, knife, diesel well, coals, kiln. Last i checked a coal fired forge doesnt take a tool slot. Which is nice but it relies on excess coal which is rare.
I do find it immersion breaking when i go to use something and it just doesnt work. Im sure its confusing for new players as well. When the range is so big (0-19 i believe) are tool slots about creating an experience or about encouraging a playstyle? I am still under the impression its to slow down progression of the tech tree. Just like all the latest updates have been. Something that mainly affects veteran players but limits new players all the same.
I feel like picking anything up at an early age makes sense. Knowing what to do with it is another. Most players dont start this game knowing how to use anything or what anything is used for or what is important. We grow that knowledge and skill though perseverance and dedication. What do we get as a reward for that dedication? To be put in a box so we cant truly show our skills or apply what we've learned. Its a constraint, plain and simple.
I dont think it has a place in a game like this. Restrictions shouldnt be based around veteran players, they should be based around new to mid level players. Otherwise the non vets get burnt more than anyone. Its ignorant to expect new players to not find this as a huge road block in the learning process.
Say im new and im decent at farming but i want to learn smithing. I stabilize the farm and use up a number of my tool slots. The smith is empty so i decide to try my hand at making steel. I look it up on one tech and see that i need to make coal. The fire is about to go out so i throw some kindling on it, one more tool slot down. I throw some kindling in the the forge and light it up, another tool slot down. Collect the coal and make crucibles with wrought iron. Excited i light up the forge and grab the tongs. Except somethings wrong. I cant pick up the crucibles. I ran out of tool slots. Defeated i return to farming to help however i can with the remaining tool slots i have used.
See how this is a bad system. Artificial roadblocks that completely ruin the immersion of the game. Limit players and make experimentation a liability.
Im talking about lone wolves who made strides on their own. Issac Newton would be a notorious murderer instead of the father of calculus we know him as if forced to work with others.
Putting a limiter on people like that only limits society.
You say we stand on the shoulders of giants but what happens when a giant cant grow past 8 ft. Limiting growth only enables stagnation and a frustrating experience imo.
I like challenges. Ones i can grow and adapt to. Ones that feel good to overcome. There is no overcoming tool slots. Unless you plan on grinding for hours to get the right score. Only to have it taken away a week later.
Lets be real, the system is bad and benefits nothing. It only slows down progression just like the last few months of updates have. Instead of making interesting content all we get is sand on the fire. It makes thing predictable and boring. I dont see how anyone can enjoy this stuff. Especially when knowing it takes away from potential *real* content. Instead of wasting half a year on updates that serve no purpose other than to annoy players we could be seeing real content updates and balancing done in regards to them.
Boo!
I like tool slots. OFC you shouldn't be able to do all the things in the game. Some tool slots might be nonsensical and could use tweaking, but it's still important to note that this is a cooperative game, not a single-player game.
Most humans who made a huge impact on science and discovery did so on their own. Imagine where we would be if those people were forced to work with others in order to complete their work.
I believe that if you know how to do something you should be able to do it. Its the reward for applying yourself in this game. Tool slots are a false limit on the skills a player can provide. I think its enough of a limit how difficult it is to learn things in this game.
In reality people do do things on their own to provide for the community. You really think people who carry towns solo are being selfish? They work to benefit society as a whole, not themselves. Its petty to force people like that into constraints.
When ive been working on big projects in the past i dont ask anyone to help me or force them to do something. I work my ass off doing whatever it is. Some people will notice what im doing and help me out. Without even asking they cut my work time in half. This is not something that can be done in the current system. Someone will go man i wish i could help them but then i would be wasting two tool slots and i really want to do X this life.
Beside the biome restrictions, tool slots are the most immersion breaking thing that's ever been added to the game. Ruins the experience for me, does not make me more cooperative. Interesting attempt at promoting collaboration but fails imo.
Toxolotl wrote:Perhaps curses take a huge chunk out of your genetic score. So with enough curses you wouldnt be able to use any tools making killing near impossible.
I'd be perfectly happy if killing other people or being cursed by other people would damage your genetic score.
But if you suggest it, many regular players will complain about getting cursed by mistake or needing to kill to protect the town. You only need one slot to kill and no slots at all to grief. Peaceful villagers need every tool slot they can get. You will hurt them a lot faster than you will hurt a dedicated murderer.
Could work well with the blessing idea. Blessings could counter the negative points curses apply. So if someone accidentally curses you they could use their blessing token to null it. I dont think killing should effect your score unless you kill someone who would effect your score anyway.
Ill repost my list from your stagnation thread.
Stuff like rockets, phones, gps, binoculars, railroads, advanced cars, computers, electricity, air conditioning, furnaces, electronic lathe drill bore hammer roller, several tiers of generators
In terms of gps and phones. The idea would be to launch satellites using the aforementioned rockets. This would likely be super late game. I would not expect updates like this to be done quickly. I could see the amount of craftable items doubling just by implementing the items on that list.
Advances batteries and electric versions of some of the steel tools would be nice. Chainsaw(axe), table saw(froe), circular saw(bowsaw), etc. They would be unbreakable but would require freshly charged batteries or kerosene after a set number of uses. Perhaps they could tie into generators in some way. Perhaps electric ovens and stoves(gas/electric) could be next tier adobe ovens and hot coals. Microwaves and refrigerators could be a cool addition though im not sure what they would be used for. A chemistry lab could be fun and used for a lot of stuff.
I would like to see more aesthetic stuff eventually but i think content should focus more on function oriented things to extend the tech tree rather than visual elements. I also dont think we need any more food. We already have way too much and it all performs the same function.
Perhaps curses take a huge chunk out of your genetic score. So with enough curses you wouldnt be able to use any tools making killing near impossible.
So do NOT give them more attention by trying to managing them (unless it's something like cursing). Attention is mainly what they want anyway, isn't it?
So what? You're already born unnaturally in this game anyways. The game is no model of human society and never will be. The cartoonish art of the characters also kind of works because the game requires absurdities which make it sooo unrealistic as a model of human society.
I oppose griefers. I make it hell for them to do what they do. I make their lives unsatisfying and difficult. I highly doubt they view my interventions as rewarding, ive had griefers starve themselves and run away from town because i kept stopping them over and over.
Most griefers i run into are noobs and do very obvious and basic things. I run into more issues when a griefer has more experience and knows how to make things really difficult without ever being noticed. They steal bellows, break kilns, turn all the wheat into flour, hide all the weapons and pads, bring bears, wolves, and boars to town without anyone noticing.
People get confused and dont know who's doing it. All it takes is one false accusation and everyone wastes their curse tokens on an innocent person. Most griefing is not easily ignored. Most griefers dont want attention, they want to inflict pain and mayhem onto others.
The main reason i like this game is that it capitalizes on human nature. Sure its unrealistic but many of the elements of the game are tools in displaying human behavior. Killing and murder have been a part of human nature since the beginning of our species. I think removing or limiting those elements would take away a really fascinating part of the game. Even if it is one of the more annoying parts.
I do think there could be more tools available to aid players against griefers. Make griefing a more annoying and tedious thing to do. Someone mentioned bear traps a while back. This could be a good counter to bears. A reusable but hard to make trap that attracts bears and uses raw mutton as bait. Perhaps things like kilns could require elder removal permission. Perhaps breaking them makes a loud noise. I do think stuff like this would help more than simply removing killing.
Something like you cant kill the last 1-2 females in your bloodline makes more sense to me than no killing at all.
My main objection would be griefer management. Like jason mentioned in the other thread a griefer can basically torture people their whole life and ruin a town with no way to stop them.
But is killing the only answer? Maybe not.
A way ive thought about a few times would be if someone built up enough curses they would poof out of existence. This could be abused, and its also highly unrealistic.
Perhaps you could immobilize someone for a short time with the lasso.
That being said removing killing from the game is a stretch for me. Killing has been apart of human society forever. Removing it completely would be too unnatural imo.
Personally i think more tools to associate griefers and manage them would be useful. Non griefers have weapons and curses to fight griefers. Griefers have weapons, curses, bears, boars, wolves, theft, destruction, confusion and misdirection.
Would be nice to have as many tools to counter griefers as they have to grief.
Knowledge used to be our only limit, but now we have tool slots and biome restrictions so that's cool i guess.
Main issue i have with this idea is that time overlap could make most quest useless. Say you put in a request at 20 then it gets picked up when you're 30, takes the person 20 minutes to complete, you're now 50 with only 10 minutes and a reduced food bar to complete whatever task you're doing. Presuming a player lives that long.
What happens when a quest giver dies in the middle of someone completing the quest? Would you need to waste a tool slot to write on the board? Would you need to be old enough to write what you need on the board?
I HATE the hierarchy concept. It sickens me. How is it remotely competitive with the social structure we have now? Things like this need to have a function not just a novelty. I like the idea of this quest board but i would likely look around town, see what is needed, fill the void, then work on my own project. Not sure how useful it would be and honestly im tired additions that require months of balancing while adding little value to the game.
I can wait for him to implement this so we can spend six months balancing this, meme score, tool slots, and biome restrictions with no real content updates. Good stuff.
Remember when this game had elements of equality? The only thing holding you back was your knowledge? Individuals fueled by ambition and a desire to change the face of the world for the betterment of future generations?
Pepperidge farm remembers.
JasonY wrote:Toxolotl wrote:I agree. An easy way to fix stagnation or make the current endgame the beginning of something epic is to extend the tech tree. Make it huge! Stuff like rockets, phones, gps, binoculars, railroads, advanced cars, computers, electricity, air conditioning, furnaces, electronic lathe drill bore hammer roller, several tiers of generators and much more. About a year ago, a youtube video made by Jason gave the impression that 10,000 craftable items would be available in game. Today we sit at about 2225.
I agree, Bigger and better projects to work on.
But Ruben probably spends the first 20 minutes scavenging for clothes, Then another 20 dressing babies and then final 20 minutes dressing grandkids and eating. A megacity isn't any more complex than a budding eve camp, they both need the same things. Food, Water and babies.
Yeah... I'm kind of with Jason on his approach to work on mechanics first, if he just added a bunch of stuff then people would go ahead and build a bunch of that stuff and then the bell towns would all have those things and it would be briefly visually novel but gameplay-wise probably 90% unchanged for a MASSIVE amount of dev/drawing time from him. I remember him mentioning somewhere that he was avoiding turning OHOL into a "networking" game like how castle doctrine was with complex minecraft-like circuits since the programming for that in an infinite map is prohibitively complex, but I think that -some- kind of networking behavior is going to be necessary to really make this game shine, but he'll likely have to keep experimenting to figure out exactly what's needed so he can figure out an approachable way to tackle it. But yeah we still haven't gotten trade to be a thing, and without trade it's just real tough to get interesting endgame dynamics going imo... And/or, a reason to raid/defend aside from for out-of-character reasons.
How does trade have anything to do with that? I did not mention anything that would require a grid network besides maybe the upgraded lathe, bore, drill, hammer, and roller. That could work just like the current newcomen engine except it would be a diesel engine instead. Likely moveable like the mining engine is. Atomic power has been hinted but that would likely be late game.
In terms of gps and phones. The idea would be to launch satellites using the aforementioned rockets. This would likely be super late game. I would not expect updates like this to be done quickly. I could see the amount of craftable items doubling just by implementing the items on that list.
Too much time has been wasted on efforts to slow players down in their progression of the current tech tree. Its time to shine the light forward and step into the darkness of the unknown.
What mechanics are you talking about jcwilk? Tool slots, meme score, and race restrictions? Im fine with fixing mechanical issues and bugs but in general my game runs fine. My experience doesnt run as smoothly though. Since tool slots, meme score weight, biome restrictions, and pumping restrictions the game has become more repetitive than ever.
Simple answer is that those things dont belong and restrictions should remain exclusively function based. I have legs so i can walk into jungle, i have arms so i can pick banana... oh wait im not brown nvm. Like wtf, is a system like that really going to promote trade?
Do tool slots really make sense for a game like this? Someone could learn more tools in a quarter of their lifetime than they could ever learn in game. Oh and this is all based on gene score, makes total sense. Who doesnt want an arbitrary system governing their quality of life..
The game would be a lot further along and a whole lot more dynamic if these things had never been implemented. Instead of actually progressing the tech tree we see these disaster updates that will likely take months to fix or ultimately be removed.. like the rift.
"I hope you see a pattern here. The quality of the update in terms of long-term positive impact on the game is inversely proportional to the number of negative reviews."
In communist ohol trade trades you
You really need to stop calling the beginning the end.
I don't find playing in megacities repetitive at all. It's like people are so used to village life that they cant handle the complex endgame.'It's meaningless', I hear them say all the time (I do not comprehend this).
I agree. An easy way to fix stagnation or make the current endgame the beginning of something epic is to extend the tech tree. Make it huge! Stuff like rockets, phones, gps, binoculars, railroads, advanced cars, computers, electricity, air conditioning, furnaces, electronic lathe drill bore hammer roller, several tiers of generators and much more. About a year ago, a youtube video made by Jason gave the impression that 10,000 craftable items would be available in game. Today we sit at about 2225.
I explored an idea for taking credit for contributions to society buried in another thread but it seemed too big an ask in terms of how much effort it would be to code so I didn't end up dedicating a thread to it as a proper suggestion but eg, irl people would gossip about who's putting in work on things that matter and who isn't but there isn't time for that in ohol... So it would be nice if there was a system that scored people based on how much their work is utilized.
Basically just saying let's try to individually keep in mind that there are certain functions of society which are not possible to duplicate organically with such a scaled up pace, so if we want them then we need to think up and suggest simplified, abstract models to fill in the gaps and be candidates for future features
I recalls the thread. Was solid stuff but was probably too ambitious to implement given the level of structure and risk of bugs/exploits.
That being said it could make for an interesting dynamic if structured around the hierarchy business. If kings and queens where chosen because of their contribution to society instead of random people saying i follow you there would be less risk in its ability to be griefed. If someone does a number of things that are deemed sketchy they would be at the bottom of the totem pole. Perhaps referred to as an outcast. A king could only exile outcasts, protecting the rest of the group from abuse.
Perhaps instead of a loyalty structure based on an individual you are instead loyal to a society. Within that society you are ranked depending on your contributions. Outcasts(griefers) could be easily distinguished and players would be given further ability to mark(exile) them as such so they may be cursed.
The issue with it being text bubbles is that a griefer or exiled individual could just not speak and would likely go unnoticed. An alternative would be something similar to the /yoohoo or kill "!". Someone who is an outcast would walk around with a permanent "?" Above their head. Someone who is an exile would walk around with a permanent black speech bubble "!".
jcwilk wrote:I think having more coded mechanisms for communicating ideas like this is great imo... It's important to remember that because time is so sped up there would presumably be many, many more interactions in the analogous full length life so things like keeping everyone in sync about direction and values and such would be happening many times every second. A second is basically a bit less than a week so imagine trying to communicate as many things as need to be communicated across the span of a month in 5 seconds or so... It's just not possible, so it makes sense to have the game facilitate some of that data syncing between humans to bring it slightly closer to how in sync humans would be at normal speed
I think this is a good point - one reason at least we haven't seen complex societies arise in the game is the time and effort it takes to communicate relative to everyone's life span. As cool as it is to see social systems develop organically, I don't think there's anything wrong with using game mechanics to help facilitate some of the interactions, so long as it's handled well. That's basically what private property and fences do at the moment.
How would this be done though. Kinda makes no sense. Every second is a little over 6 days. I like your hat but its time to buy some cattle jcwilk.
How do you know the villages wouldn't die of starvation anyway?
I have never been in an established town that has died from starvation. Only towns that are at risk of dying from that are eve camps. Most towns die due to griefing or noobs.
Im sure running out of water can contribute to a thinning in the population. Personally i consider anyone who can't sustain themselves on wild food a noob. So if your last female is a noob and there is no food(berries) in town i consider that death by noob more than death by starvation.
More often than not i see griefers striking in low pop hours and killing the only remaining females. During the rift days it was pretty much exclusively death
by griefing and i dont see that behavior changing as much. Though towns in the rift were easily recoverable.
I want the game to be accessible not easy. Plus there are better ways to make rubber harder while still having it feel satisfying. With the second system i proposed you would struggle without the other fams but you could stay alive without them. Giving you time to find them.
Personally i dont find the constant trail of dead towns very satisfying. Or playing in a town that's survival hinges on a specific race magically waltzing in. That kind of struggle is repetitive and boring imo.
If you have a system that would make things harder than what i propose but still accessible i would be interested to hear it. Im looking for a middle ground. Even if that middle ground is only an inch off of what we already have.
Mechanic:
My people USE this gives Access to your subordinates
My Duke, Kind, etc use this, gives Access to your current duke king, etcwe transfer Access, not ownership!
if a king exiles a duke. this Duke and all his subordinates lose access.
A Duke exiles a king, the king will lose access to gates owned by this Duke and duke's followers.
A Duke leaving would mean that he and his followers would lose access.
Isnt this kind of mechanic going to promote hoarding? Especially since noob kings and emperors will likely think everything belongs to them, even the people.
I struggle to see how this system would benefit the experience of the game. It sounds a lot like promoting fascist roleplaying to me.
Our current system seems to be the most effective given almost every town behaves the same way. How would any government system compete with the current system or even define the town beyond having annoying little tyrants from time to time? I have a feeling people will play the way they always have unless a system comes a long that is more efficient.
Role players will love this but the players who truly keep a civ alive likely wont touch it. I can see some entitled king walking up to a veteran demanding they follow them. The vet keeps working and ignores them, gets exiled, and chased out of the town.
A few moments later "King we need an engine we are out of water"
King: "i dont know engine" *munches berries*
A few moments later "king we need a shovel to dig deep well in the north"
King: "i dont know how to make" *munches berries*
Commoner: "lol noob king"
Duke: "yea lol"
King "commoner is exiled" "duke is exiled" *commands his followers to kill them*
The commoner and duke flee the town. Run into the vet who is making an eve settlement on a western well site. They work together as equal partners in their new society. Free of oppression and ignorance.
If people kill each other over crowns that mean nothing imagine what they will do with this.
Monarchies dont just happen. They usually form around wealth. Specifically withheld wealth and resources controlled by a minority.
I think a system like this would be interesting but i could see it turning a bit lord of the fliesy. I like to think of the current system as a bit of a communist anarchy. No one owns anything no one rules anyone the people belong to the town and the town belongs to the people.
I find it quite beautiful and i honestly think its highly successful in the scheme of societies. Imagine a society where they could go 120 years without a single murder. It does get a bit boring though when its the only societal structure used imo.
Personally I like civilizations developing organically in the game but I do like the idea of having some *optional* structures to guide people into the societies they choose. I worry though that the proposed system would serve more as a nuisance/distraction than a structure that aids in creating a dynamic society.
Players are likely going to gravitate towards the most efficient system so how would monarchies or any government system be balanced in order to make them a competitive option?
I imagine the player base would be split between those who want the monarchies and those who dont. There would be constant battles of people trying to establish monarchies and those trying to tear them down.
That being said it could be really interesting but could easily turn into mayhem similar to the war sword update. But that all depends on how it would be implemented.
Ok so i think the structure i presented is a bit unbalanced. Removing palm oil as a factor could even things out. Given the jungle race could automatically produce three rubber it would make them too op.
Perhaps something like this:
[Palm oil + low grade latex + low grade sulphur = one rubber]
[Palm oil + low grade latex + high grade sulphur = one rubber]
[Palm oil + high grade latex + low grade sulphur = two rubber]
[Palm oil + high grade latex + high grade sulphur = four rubber]
High grade sulphur wont take effect unless combined with high grade latex. To balance the advantage desert fams have with horses early game.
Let me know if you have any thoughts on further ways to balancing a system like this.