a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Jason is fixing the server right now.
Played around a little bit more in the tutorial area, and it is not that horrible. Will take some getting used to, and I will no longer keep most of my children unless I have clothes for them and they appear to know how to use them.
There isn't time to do anything except for eat. Compost...forget it. Forge...forget it. Killing a mouflon and bringing home a lamb...forget it.
Maybe we will get used to this, but at the moment it is unbearably hard.
I think it would be hilarious to break out of the tutorial, and then roleplay as a tutorial AI with the noobs.
Who knows, we might actually be able to cut down on the berry muncher population using this method. Lol.
I think that this thread illustrates a big problem that I originally brought up on discord.
Roleplay is associated with griefing by the OHOL community, but not all rping is greifing. In most games I practice some subtle rp elements. I might make friends with another baby while we are being fed, or run off with a sister to start a new life (when a camp is overcrowded). I do not consider stuff like this to be bad. In fact I find that it adds a little life to each game. I don't find things like marriage roleplays to be inherently bad either. I believe the community needs to recognize that these forms of roleplaying are not inherently bad, and support players who want to practice them.
The problem with roleplaying is that it can cross a line very quickly. Like I said, I have no problem with marriage, but if you are getting married on top of the forge while I'm working then that's griefing. Likewise, if you run off to start a new home as the last girl, I also find that to be a form of griefing. Berry munching and talking without working is also griefing. True roleplayers need to find a way to balance work with their role plays. I do, and I'm hardly the best player in the world. If I can do it, others can too.
It's also getting big in Japan and Korea, just look on Youtube
So I thought I would throw this idea out on here before suggesting it on the reddit to gauge feedback. Obviously, the apocalypse just triggered, and we lost a whole bunch of towns and a decent share of people are feeling glum about it. What if there was a way to construct a room/vault where items and memories could be kept safe from the apocalypse. So at the very least, a few pieces of the last generation could survive into the new world.
In terms of gameplay, it would mean little to nothing...you can rebuild anything in this game, some objects decay, and most things lack sentimentality. Still, I think it would help mend some people's broken hearts to be able to save that car that they spent their whole life working on, or a letter, or even a town sign from destruction. Even a few pieces of Anal town for instance, would be pretty cool to have.
Ahhh...Zet the Great, an elusive figure who appears in cities late at night eastern time, and leaves messages for the next generation. He/she/they are a legend, I have met them once in person within the game and they are certainly a quirky figure.
I am like 100% sure you are the person who was showing this trick in one of my lives a few hours ago.
Did you split your deck in half and give half to me and half to my son?
Portager wrote:Greep wrote:The vast majority of players care more about cities than family lines. And pioneering for various reasons helps kill it off in the long run.
I disagree on the second point. If a small group splits from an overpopulated camp, and does a good job at building a new base, then it might actually extend the line. If a family is split between 2 or 3 camps, it will take much longer for the griefers to destroy everything.
I've tried a million times to run off with a bowl as a girl and start a new camp, it's near impossible to get anyone to play with you in a new camp if you aren't an Eve.
I would point out, also, those of us who never use /die never get to play as Eves anyway. It's the same assholes hitting /die in every camp that isn't perfect to their specifications who play all of the eve games now. Since i came back i haven't spawned Eve a single time.
What i don't understand is why isn't this what anyone wants to do? The civilizations reach the peak of their tech tree and people can mess around with planes etc but you fundamentally run out of important things to do. Like humanity, it becomes time to expand to new land. This is why humans took over the whole world, instead of dying out when ancient civilizations collapsed.
Showing up with a few key items makes it massively easier to build a good camp, and makes the immediate food shortages less of a big deal.
The main problems are really this:
1) Not wanting to be the asshole who steals a horse/cart
2) that no one will stay with a mother who isn't in a civ.So, what's going on here, is that family lines die because of how the community is viewing the game, not because of any shortcomings in the games design.
I 100% agree that peak civs at the top of the tech tree are very stale. Too many times lately I have been born into developed civs with everything under the sun, and I felt kind of empty inside. When everything is already created, it is very boring to play. Sure I can build some superfluous stuff likes roads, and planes, and buildings...but *yawn*.
I have had multiple babies stay with me as a girl who abandoned her birth camp, and honestly roleplaying pays a huge role in that. A couple of time before I have lied and said that my mom dumped me in the wilderness, and that I have no idea where our original city is. I have also pretended to be a new player, and that often seems to tug at the heartstrings of veteran babies. Often I will rope in a competent brother from my host society as well, so that we can double team our new camp which seems to have a positive effect on baby survival.
Honestly, I am not opposed to stealing a cart and basic tools. If the original society cannot rebuild something so simple as a steel hoe, then they probably don't deserve to survive anyways.
The vast majority of players care more about cities than family lines. And pioneering for various reasons helps kill it off in the long run.
I disagree on the second point. If a small group splits from an overpopulated camp, and does a good job at building a new base, then it might actually extend the line. If a family is split between 2 or 3 camps, it will take much longer for the griefers to destroy everything.
I have been born into that family 2x today, both times as males. There was a major overpopulation problem at one point, with a bunch of afk women giving birth to inordinate numbers of babies (including myself) in one of the berry farms. We ended up having to kill a couple of them to thin the pop. The second go around I played, the population was stable, and the city was still expanding (about 30 mins ago).
I believe that this discussion demonstrates a much larger issue at hand with this game.
There are simply not enough people role-playing, and the ones who do roleplay often get a lot of flack for it. My theory is that this lack of role-playing leads people to get bored, and so they make their own rp as a murderer/griefer.
When I think about it, all of my most memorable games have featured role-playing. Sure, I get more done when I just put my head down and work, but that gets old and repetitive. It is much more fun to be the uncle that adopts a discarded baby, or in the group of siblings who leave town and build their own society, or the quirky aunt who writes letters about child rearing. In those lives it is still possible to get things done, and have fun, without resorting to societal destruction. Some people will still grief regularly, but if more people rp, I suspect that many more would-be griefers can be assuaged.
Welcome to OHOL, you will get used to it in time. ![]()
Nowadays I don't even mind being murdered every few lives, it adds some spice to things. I have gotten used to the craziness.
As for racist parents, this has been an ongoing thing, but I don't let it bother me...most are noobs. Just suckle off of them until you can give them the middle finger, or find a surrogate mother who is not racist. Surrogate parents are awesome, especially if you are a role player as I am.
Look, I know storage is an ongoing problem in this game, but some of the camps that I have been born into as of late are downright dirty pigsties. There are plates, materials, tools, and graves strewn all over the place and any attempt to clean things up is quickly outdone by people throwing more trash into the newly organized areas. Has anyone come up with any solutions for this problem? Do signs work? Does having a leader with a strong voice help? What do you do to deal with this problem? If a place is trashed, does it just make sense to fill up a cart with valuables and leave town?
Awesome idea that sticks with the overall vision of the game, and allows people to play with their friends.
This is a good idea that I support...but I just don't think the timing is right. At the moment, finding a good starting camp is hard enough with the recent changes to the resource system, this would make it even harder. New players are getting left behind, they need time to catch up, and they can't easily learn with all of these challenges being mounted on the backs of older players.
In the long run, it makes sense, but not at this moment.
Not only this, the game centers around teamwork. Griefing is even less encouraged. Our only defense against griefers is murder, which is also exploited by the trolls.
This game just isn’t what it used to be. All big civs keep dying due to these people.
Well, truthfully, griefing has been a problem in the past as well (and a pretty bad one for awhile). It seems to come and go in cycles, but we had it pretty well under control when the apocolypse update hit. It started back up with the recent resource nerfing updates, as griefers have been able to take advantage of the fragile state of civs to completely dismantle them. In the past, people could afford to be more watchful, but now every game is a frantic attempt to find and properly utilize the finite resources. This makes the few cities that do exist, easy targets.
I've tried this few times and it's looks really futile. Everything around city is savenged, so no soil, no milkweed. Good luck with setting up a camp.
Even if you run far away and succesfully setup a camp it's doomed anyway. I luckily got reborn to settlement I've made and tried to improve some things. Got killed by a griefer while holding my first child. Just awesome.
The key is to leave camp as soon as you can as a child. Grab a basket, fill it with food and gtfo. Go about 10-12 biomes away and then set your new camp. I stopped bringing advanced tools with me, because this makes it so that my children have to work harder. If my children are working, they will be less likely to grief. This also creates a bit of a safety window where people can't immediately forge knives, and this window normally allows a generation or two to mature in a low grief environment.
About half the time these satellite settlements fail, and the other times they succeed. Honestly, you have a better chance of surviving at these camps then you probably do at a village, given the recent problems.
Trick wrote:The nerfs have broken this game, and has made the game hostile to newcomers..
+1
I've played shortly before decay and milkweed nerf and back then I could learn some new things. Since nerfs I was never born into city where I can e.g. hone up my smithing skills. Either Eve to do the same boring initial routine over and over again, abandoned kid of Eve searching for snake to hug, or in town in complete disrepair, where famine is common and it takes half a lifetime or more to gather enough milkweed for a freaking backpack. And more often that not, if I get born into a town, there is some griefer killing people left and right.
True, this is a big problem. Even though I find it a little dark, I don't hate Jason's vision of a finite game world, but the problem is that these nerfs are coming at the wrong time. They should come later on, once the tech tree is more developed and players have ironed out their methods.
The problem is that every week the core gameplay mechanics seem to be changing, and it is getting harder and harder to eek out a living. The scary thing is that water and berries might be the next things to be nerfed, if I understand things correctly, which would be downright devastating. In discord the other day we were talking and I and a few others are of the opinion that this game changed from a warming (though challenging) game about building society with others, to a pure survival game. The roleplaying elements are dying, and being replaced with tedium and stress. There is simply very little time to continue the training traditions of the past, and I believe that this is impacting the game and forcing new players to quit and never return.
I really do enjoy this game, and appreciate Jason's work, but the core elements that defined this game a few months ago are gone. It truly is like playing a completely different game.
Its sad I agree, I can see why griefers grief more than I used to, but it is certianly devastating our villages at the moment.
Until Jason makes more changes, the best bet at the moment is leave established villages and start new camps, if you want a family line to survive then you have to spread the diaspora. It won't save the village of course, but it can save the family.
Nice to see some training schools popping up, its a cool idea really. Sadly, I haven't been spawning into any established camps my last few games, or I would try this.
To Cole, it was fun running away from our clueless mother with you. I wish I could have taught her some basics, but she was keeping too many babies and risking our own livelihood.
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … _id=178845
I hope you found the Iron that I was carrying back to the forge when a snake lurched out at me. Thank you for getting camp setup while I tended to the children, we had a fun game.
The death parade continues for me, I try asking if the kids want to learn now, but they often say "N" and later end up dying. Maybe people really are that stubborn.
I don't fully agree with your premise. This past week I've taught people how to make plates, basics of smithing, berry care, and shepherding. The biggest problem I've found is that we need to spend more of our lives being productive than we did in the past. I've been in the process of teaching someone, then had to bail because there was something crucial that needed to be done - e.g. griefer, tool needing to be replaced, sheepocalypse, people needing directions etc.
I think the onus is on the new player to ask for help, but it'd definitely be a step in the right direction if you ask your offspring (time permitting) if there's anything they want to learn. I'll often ask a baby (still only 5-10% of them) if they want to learn something that is currently necessary for the town, like pottery (which is ALWAYS useful), or berry maintenance. I'll sometimes stand in places like the carrot farm and tell people they gotta pick shit or else it despawns, or tell them to get an actual job, and maybe take one to be my apprentice.
Given we struggle surviving as it is, if the top 10% of players (virtually the only productive members) are also teaching, then it's going to be much harder. Some jobs are easier with an apprentice though.
We are part of the old guard Alleria, we still think about things like training new players, but as a whole I believe that this tradition is dying.
As Ozymandias points out, too many times children are given orders like "make a fire" but they are not given each step. Earlier today, after our eve mother died right next to a berry bush, I had to teach my younger brother how to craft a sharp stone and create a home marker. We are talking about the most basic of tasks, and yet he did not know how to do it. Maybe he just started an hour ago, but I can't help but suspect that he has played more than that.
As you point out, the big problem is that time is much more of a commodity than it used to. Im trying to think of a workaround for time and the resource strain, but the solution is not immediately clear.
Remember the good old days pre-apocolypse when elders taught their family members the basics of the game, and everybody on here raved about our amazing training traditions that we passed on to new players....I can't help but feel that we don't quite do that like we used to. Sure, we will still teach advanced craft to newer players like forging, baking, shepherding etc. but the teaching of the basics seems to have fallen by the wayside.
From purely anecdotal evidence I can tell you that a large number of players can't start a basic fire, set a starting camp, practice basic kiln-work, skin rabbits etc. I find myself being born time and time again to eve mothers who have no idea what they are doing; they setup camps in bizzare places that are far from water, they run around and eat berries but neglect to set a home marker or make a basket when the resources are right next to them, and they often will even say "hope u know what u doing" or some variation of that to me. I try to help them, but its not easy when you can only crank out a letter or two at a time.
I think the large number of people, who just kind of aimlessly sit at the carrot farm sponging off resources, are also likely new players who do not know the basics, but unlike in the past we are all too busy dealing with the nerfs and famines to help them. This isn't the game that it used to be where elders would come grab a kid and ask if they wanted to learn the ropes, it is a very harsh gameworld that does not allow for that kind of activity.
Maybe it is time that large villages setup a designated trainer, who will teach babies who need help how to do basic tasks (and more advanced ones, if the kids are ready for that). This might also help to temporarily solve the boredom problems that some players seem to have. Thoughts?
Interesting roleplaying strategy, killing outsiders.
Another strategy that people used to use on this forum pre-apocolypse is leaving camp and then dropping daughters at good spots across the map, this spreads the lineage out to the point that it becomes highly griefer resistant.