a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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This would be an interesting mod. Maybe organised as a special event. Time massively slowed, seasonal effects.
We dont talk in game, we write each other text. This has nothing to do with realism.
So obviously writing text is an analogue for talking. I assumed that was obvious.
If babies need food in real life do they make an F sound?
But F is an abbreviation. Why don't you just abbreviate numbers if that's what you want? A=1, B=2, ... J=0
"I NEED CF ADOBE AND AD LIMESTONE"
That would be quite fun.
How come people only say a few sentences per life?
If i want to "say" something in game it takes me weeks, making numbers forbidden, makes it take even longer.
So weeks translates to seconds in game, so that's about right. Unless you meant literal weeks in which case you are engaging in hyperbole.
Overcoming the difficulties of communication in the game is an important part of success. Clearly you feel the game should grant you more latitude, but you wouldn't be playing the same game if it did. Is that good or bad? I like it the way it is. If I was a slower typist I might feel differently, hard to say.
We can swear up a storm but numbers are forbidden. Math is the ultimate curse.
Probably as troubling as the lack of numbers there is the lack of any operators, lower-case letters, greek letters, etc.
and how do i say i need thirty six adobe and fourteen limestone?
"I NEED THIRTY SIX ADOBE"
"AND FOURTEEN LIMESTONE"
it's a bit logn to talk numbers like this, coordinates especially
A bit long for what? Convenience?
The point stands: to say numbers you say the numbers, that's realistic; people don't talk in numerals.
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Well if you say a number you say the number, not the numeral.
Saying "cat" and saying "six" are of similar complexity.
... so why let people comment at this point.
Because why not let people comment? People like to share opinions on things. They like to speculate and they like to vent sometimes too.
But you're right that it is what it is right now. Nothing to be done.
Eh, it would just make the game harder. People do things mostly out of ignorance rather than optimality. For instance, buildings are proven definitely not worthwhile, but that hasn't stopped people from building them. Milk is overwhelmingly better than stew, but people make stew. Etc Etc. People would still just make infinite gooseberry fields, but they would have to keep remaking them.
I agree that people do things out ignorance. But the solution as ever is to treat the ignorance. Maybe something could be done to fix berry bushes, stop there being massive farms for them everywhere. Maybe the best thing that could be done would be to make gooseberries non-edible, or non-domesticisable but replace them with something else. At the end of the day though if you want to get people eating better food you have to work out how to convince people to eat better food. And we've struggled with that since day 1. All we grew was carrots and you could go through tens of lives without even seeing a pie sometimes.
Chard wrote:ryanb wrote:I'm not a lawyer, but can't they sue for damages if your takedown request is successful and then later proves false in court? I'd suggest treading carefully.
My understanding is that trademarking is automatic in the US and registration of the mark is only to ensure that interested parties can check if the mark exists. Also not a lawyer though. There's a lot of that going around.
ryanb and Chard, I encourage you both to google a bit and you will likely learn the answers to your questions. It's an interesting topic and worth a bit of extra-curricular reading just for fun. I think ryanb's question will be hard to get a definitive answer to because so much undoubtedly depends on the specific facts at hand, but Chard's question definitely has some straight-forward answers.
I researched! Turns out that trademark registration is optional. Trademarks exist as a result of commercial activity first and are registered separately. Lack of a registration means you have to be able to prove that you are the original owner of a mark, and if it came to suit that the infringing party was aware of the mark. There's also something about registration applying across the entire US rather than simply where you do business but I guess that doesn't apply for goods sold through and provided over the Internet in the same way. But perhaps most interestingly is that in the US you need to register a trademark for it to be internationally enforceable.
This was my source: https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-gettin … ark-basics
The takedown requests don't mention the artwork is under public domain and the name One Hour One Life is not trademarked. I feel they don't accurately describe the situation.
I'm not a lawyer, but can't they sue for damages if your takedown request is successful and then later proves false in court? I'd suggest treading carefully.
My understanding is that trademarking is automatic in the US and registration of the mark is only to ensure that interested parties can check if the mark exists. Also not a lawyer though. There's a lot of that going around. ![]()
I was also slightly concerned about the wording of the take down notices. But I can see why Jason has done it, "looking for the right levers" as he said. And shouldn't the take down notice only provide the basis for *your* argument, the developers will surely get to have their say in the process too, I actually don't know how that goes. So in that regards maybe its fine and all points of view will be heard. All the same because it will come to that anyway maybe it would've been better to highlight that you aren't concerned about copyright.
That said, maybe copyright should be the issue. Does the no_copyright.txt actually constitute a license? Isn't the difficulty of putting things in the public domain the very reason for the existence of CC0? Man, licensing is tricky business.
No, that's the original text that has been there all along.
The Chinese version didn't even have that text for 40 days until I asked them to fix it.
I'm asking for new text now:
Unofficial Adaptation
Not approved by original author Jason RohrerThat text appearing will be the first sign that they are taking the steps that I asked them to take. But the text hasn't changed.
Ah, sorry. I lost track of the requested changes.
I hope that I'm just looking at a cached version of the app store text, but as far as I can tell, it has not been changed. 9:21am PST.
https://www.taptap.com/app/153717
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta … .evolution
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/one-hou … 13914?mt=8
They seem updated to me.
1. Google Translate: "This is an unofficial extension of Jason Rohrer's desktop game "One Hour One Life" for the Android market. We've added additional game modes and changes that give them a better gaming experience on the touch screen. We are independent developers, and the mobile game world is on our servers."
2. "This is the unofficial expanded version of Jason Rohrer's desktop game "One Hour One Life", adapted for Android. We have added additional play modes as well as changes to make it play better on touchscreens. We are independent developers and the mobile game world resides on our servers."
3. "#1 RPG in 17 countries so far for iPhone, and in 9 countries for iPad!
This is the unofficial expanded version of Jason Rohrer's desktop game "One Hour One Life", adapted for iOS. We have added additional play modes as well as changes to make it play better on touchscreens. We are independent developers and the mobile game world resides on our servers."
I think a lot of the clash here is just Jason understimating how much damage even any name change at all could cause to a game's sales, let alone having an ugly change like unofficial in it, with the damage likely being irreversible. For instance, an equally valid solution to misunderstandings would just be to have Jason change his own game's name: if it's not a big deal, why not? Obviously not gonna happen, cause it IS a huge deal!
Does being damaging to their business make it wrong? Did the mobile developers have a moral responsibility to highlight that they were selling a derivative work and the original work uses the same name but is unaffiliated? Those who bear the fault, theirs must the remedy be. That is the material difference. If the mobile developers should've been more proactive in their duty they must bear the responsibility of failing that duty.
Yes, I remember that well. It seemed against everything I had heard before. It's just that Jason has been so dead set against listening to the advice all over this thread. Fans as well as friends from the game dev world. Whenever someone has pointed out a flaw in his reasoning, he has come back with other reasons to demand the exact same ting. When flaws are pointed out again, bam, another set of reasons for the same outcome. The outcome seems much more important than the reasons behind it.
I suppose I could argue that such dialectic is how people form rationally supported points of view and that changing one's view is part of that process. But honestly I'm not seeing it, the core of Jason's reasoning has been reasonably consistent, never straying far from the perception of affiliation or endorsement and the potential damage to his creative legacy. This is based on my recollections at the moment; I don't have time to reread the entire thread to see if that is supported or not.
I understand you are a fan of the game and that's wonderful but Jason is a lot more than a fan, it has personal meaning to him beyond merely playing it, it has been three or four years of his life. I try to bear that in mind when he talks about it. I don't have anything in my life that has lasted so long, I can't imagine what it feels like to put so much of myself into something.
Chard wrote:I interpreted him to be referring to the commercial release of One Hour One Life for Mobile in China. Beyond the free demo version.
Ok, so the fan was dead wrong. Thanks for restoring my world view, Chard. Jeez.
As further corroboration. Jason has never been interested in translating the game himself although did provide support for fan translations. His reasoning if I recall was because he wanted a community that could talk to him about the game, that he could relate to. Something along those lines anyway, I'm not certain and I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth.
Ok, I just read a post on our own forum for a second time, and felt a chill down my spine:
jorji wrote:By registering the trademark, your Chinese publisher seized the name for themselves, and I didn’t see how could that benefit to Jason when he already mentioned his “ commercial Chinese release on the horizon ”.
That post is here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 001#p48001.
I interpreted him to be referring to the commercial release of One Hour One Life for Mobile in China. Beyond the free demo version.
I wouldn't use this feature. I can't speak for others though.
Lineage bans make death meaningful. If you die then you may never get to come back. You may never get to see how the new animal pen worked out or if they ever finished building the new nursery. Your story will have ended. Because death is meaningful, life matters. If you can spawn back into your lineage why would anyone live to old age.
I feel like people want to play this game in a very different way to what Jason intended. Maybe that's fine, but the best lives I've lived are the ones where I embraced the finiteness of it all and moved on when it was over.
Just my two cents.
Someone copies the source code of the game, builds it, and then sells their own server logins for $10 with no credit to you or themselves. This means they would not be committing fraud since they are not taking credit. However it would do great damage to the original OHOL because it would undercut the game.
Jason's value proposition includes more than access to the main servers though. It's hard to pin down exactly I suppose but I reckon the key thing Jason has to offer is authenticity. Fans of the game will want to support Jason and the ongoing development, perhaps even if they already bought the $10 version. Then of course there's getting to hang out with the lovely people on the forums, can't ignore the draw of that. I'm not certain how this would shake out, would be interesting.
From a legal standpoint, it seems that you really don't have much to go on. "Absolutely no restrictions, and no permission necessary" is pretty explicit. You voluntarily and actively relinquished your rights to what happened with mods/adaptations/etc.. I won't comment on the extent to which I think this is a questionable business decision - it is what it is, and they are your wishes as the creator (though, I would respectfully caution you to reconsider this position going forward). Unfortunately, it seems you signed a cheque you weren't completely willing to pay out (likely because you did not foresee such an outcome), and now you're wanting to change the rules of the game after it's already been played. This isn't entirely fair to the mobile devs.
The disclaimer is about copyright. It says copyright in the first sentence and it is in a file called no_copyright.txt. Jason is concerned with fraud and the impact on his reputation which are unrelated to copyright.
I think putting the words 'unofficial' or 'unapproved' into the title is not fair. It was approved - you gave your tacit approval when you said no restriction/permission necessary. And, it *is* the official mobile version of the game.
This is sophistry or semantics, I can't decide which. What does "official" mean? In a very real sense the mobile app is not the same game so it isn't the official mobile version of anything except itself. And yet it uses the same name, a name under which Jason has been selling the game and in which he has presumably invested some time and effort and which will forever be associated with him. And then putting that in front of an audience 10-100x larger than the PC game's audience, I can see that people might be misled as to what is "official", their impressions of the one then infecting their impressions of the other. Changing the name in this way is not ideal. It would've be cleanest and most equitable for the mobile app to rebrand itself before, emphasising its distinction, as it markets itself. Sadly things have gone beyond that and the "unofficial" label is a bandage more than anything.
Is stabbing automatically griefing? By this same logic, couldn't I destroy a pen with a shovel, and then when I get stabbed, that person is the griefer, and not me? Destroying pen would fuck town completely over. She was also fucking town over. Is it really griefing killing someone who is fucking town over? Is it griefing stabbing someone who stabs another person? Why is stabbing automatically griefing? I don't get this logic.
If someone destroyed a pen without cause that would almost certainly be griefing. It is hard to imagine anyone not understanding the results of that action. Of course they could just be enlarging the pen, we don't know unless we talk to them. If you stabbed them over this incident you might also be a griefer. Griefing is about honest intent, not actions. But we're not talking about your "pen destroying" strawman here, we're talking about shearing sheep.
Now it seems pein might disagree with that last statement and that gets into who has moral authority and whence they derive it. If I was to shear sheep because I knew our town needed wool clothes and you were to stab because you knew the town needed mutton then who was right? Does it depend on whether the town needed clothes or mutton? It my opinion it does not, if we all acted authentically to try and bring about the outcome we thought was best then what happened was a failure to communicate. This is something we are all responsible for. But the stabbing, that was all you. You could've done more, you didn't, you just wanted them gone. If they were a griefer, fine. You admitted yourself you didn't know. And how can we know? From such a small pattern of justifiable events it would be impossible. But if they weren't a griefer then you probably ruined their game and whatever it was that they wanted to do, to their best understanding, for the good of the town.
If you think you were justified, if you think they were deliberately trying to destroy the town, good. Maybe you were hard done by. Ultimately the person with the knife gets to decide, it is the final veto. But they also bear the responsibility of deciding. In this case that responsibility sent you to donkey town. Does that make you question your actions? I can't give you the answers but from everything I've heard you acted rashly (perhaps arrogantly) and are unrepentent.
Chard wrote:nerfsnowballsnow wrote:Got sent to donkeytown for the second time now. From four curses. Was in a town with sheep. Noticed someone shear the last sheep. Went up to them and told them not to. They very clearly saw it since they stood still while I was typing, but they didnt respond. I fed the sheep so we could have lamb again, and that person went up again and sheared the last sheep. I had already warned them not to do it, so I stabbed them. They cursed me and went into town and told people to curse me since I "was griefer".
I'm sorry this happened to you. But really?! You have an opinion, they have an opinion. They choose their opinion over yours so you stab them? Why didn't you just curse them? Or try and explain again your reasoning? Maybe I don't know all the facts here but based on what you've told me I'd say you were a griefer. You don't stab people for this kind of thing. One warning, then stab them? Is that what it has come to?
Yes. I went to pen and saw one sheared sheep. I fed it, and before it has any lambs, that girl comes and shears it. I tell her not to and she ignores me. I fed it again and she sheared it again. Town had one basket of 3 mutton. Nothing else. Almost certain she was the reason why. She wasn't listening and she was screwing town over after being told not to. I honestly can't see how it's bad for the town to have her dead. It isn't an opinion that she was screwing town over, it's a fact lol. Also I did curse them. I legit cannot see how she wasn't griefing by shearing that sheep. How intentional it was I don't know, but she was griefing town by continuing to shear the sheep, and I told her not to do it, and she kept doing it.
But from her perspective: she was shearing sheep, someone said not to, she decided to ignore them, she sheared more sheep, she got stabbed by the person. I can't say for certain she wasn't a griefer but I am certain you were. Fortunately this means your essential premise is correct: if you didn't learn not to stab people BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SUBSTITUTE YOUR AUTHORITY FOR THEIR OWN, then the cursing system does not work.
For my money I like the cursing system but I'm rarely the target of it I suppose.
Got sent to donkeytown for the second time now. From four curses. Was in a town with sheep. Noticed someone shear the last sheep. Went up to them and told them not to. They very clearly saw it since they stood still while I was typing, but they didnt respond. I fed the sheep so we could have lamb again, and that person went up again and sheared the last sheep. I had already warned them not to do it, so I stabbed them. They cursed me and went into town and told people to curse me since I "was griefer".
I'm sorry this happened to you. But really?! You have an opinion, they have an opinion. They choose their opinion over yours so you stab them? Why didn't you just curse them? Or try and explain again your reasoning? Maybe I don't know all the facts here but based on what you've told me I'd say you were a griefer. You don't stab people for this kind of thing. One warning, then stab them? Is that what it has come to?
Most players consider any server apart from the top two to be semi-private. I imagine that is what is happening in this case. Is there a reason you are specifically trying to get on server 7?
I strongly disagree on this one.
This work is not copyrighted. I place it into the public domain.
Do whatever you want with it, absolutely no restrictions, and no permission
necessary.Jason Rohrer
Davis, California
March 2018I wouldn't have assumed the name "One Hour, One Life" was included in that, but you're confirming now that it is. "Absolutely no restrictions".
This text you quote says "This work is not copyrighted." Establish copyright as the scope of the declaration. Furthermore it is in a file called "no_copyright.txt" just in case you didn't read the first line. But the issue surrounding the name is nothing to do with copyright. You can't copyright a name, ergo you can't relinquish a copyright on a name. You can have trademarks on names, in many places (including the USA) you have trademarks on names regardless of whether you register that mark with any kind of state office.
In conclusion, don't conflate copyright with trademark protections.
Perhaps this will reflect my naïvety in these matters, but:
How is this not just a straightforward trademark issue? Jason was selling the product as One Hour One Life, a mark that is clearly unique, even registered as a domain and had been doing so for a while with reasonable success (for a small business). Is it not therefore immediately illegal to sell something called "One Hour One Life for Mobile" without being Jason (or with his direct involvement)? I was of the impression that trademark protections were non-optional and couldn't be waived because the risk is not to either vendor but to the potential consumers.