a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
Psykout wrote:Whats to stop people from using this system to grief? You could hold down a player to starve them or something along those lines. Imagine if a team of griefers came together and just strangled everyone? Never ever trust a triplet spawn...
Because the basic assumption is, the positive forces to still outweight the negatives by a fair amount. Once the destructors woulbe be in the majority it's over anyway, nothing would and should stop them there.
(...)
The issue is if a negative minority (or single person) can seriously disrupt a vast majority without them being able to do much about it.
But that is a bad assumption. Griefers won't fight fairly in the middle of town, they'll ambush people. they'll do exactly what this one did, prepare threats and then come after people.
Also, have you any idea of how many rape simulations people will make if there is a mechanic of grabbing others?
I agree with your general idea, but i think th best solution would be a disarming system with a club or something.
Stop feeding other people when they haven't asked. Not everyone is incapable of eating.
What are you even trying to prevent by feeding someone that can't even feed themselves. They'll lose what? 15 minutes maybe and learn that this game has a fast paced hunger system. New players aren't make of crystal.
I like a lot more the idea of us players making community events. Every few weeks people could vote on some idea and the community tries to push it.
Raw meats and raw fruits should decay tbh
I hope it takes some extra steps, just for the kicks
^ speed counts a lot when building, bruh
No social experiment would be complete without the sociopaths.
Or without the wasteful and cynic pricks that don't realize how much of a disturbance they are to everyone around them.
It isn't easy to communicate in this game so why the fuck should you go prodding everything with your toddler fingers and expect to never mess with others stuff? Its commom sense to not mess with people's work and most of the people we stab are airheads that don't even bother to ask before interfering with time restrictive, resource demanding tasks. Even when it's obvious that thats is what they're doing.
We had a kid spam clicking everything in our forge area today which delayed axe for 5 to 10 minutes as we were damn low on kindling. This idiotic child died few minutes after but the effects of his meddling could have killed the town (ask any good player how important it is to get axe before running out of kindling).
Everyone's entitled to play the way they want to, but IMHO that's a pretty crazy way to play. Reserves - which in one sense are "wasted" capacity - are valuable for a reason. Dying due to lack of reserves is also wasteful.
it's not just reserves if does replenish. Currently we simply can't run out of food. it's not like the 60/70 players in each server are all in the same place.
the game already has the philosophy of things running out but, currently, it's not well balanced to do that. The most important resource for this effect to be felt by us is food, but with more soil and water you get more food. Wells refill, but soil needs shovel to be made and one day you wont have iron for that shovel.
Problem is, food is so easy to get that even though iron is a powerful bottleneck in soil making process you'd still live off of the few iron and lots of bananas the land gives.
We run out of things all the time in the game, but mostly food, soil and branches. After tree farming was added this all can be made by spending iron (if you have sheep, of course). This bit is perfect, working just as it should, making iron run out eventually. Except food. Food is broken right now (which is a big issue because it's the most important resource in the game).
Finding veins is somewhat uncommon (but quite often you see a bunch together, right after the iron nerfs i've found two and got like 50 iron from them), and I don't think it matters too much that you'd have to work a bit to find one.
I still think the grind for the first 8 iron is doable, but probably too much. I still have spawned in a few cities that were good on iron though, so maybe it's fineish as long as you get lucky/don't care for the grind.
Would still be better if there was a mid tier between vein and current mines, maybe when you strike vein with pickaxe it drops some iron.
Iron is currently quite rare (specially as mines are concerned), food too easy to obtain and water finally has reached a point where it might run out even with somewhat efficient management. I also haven't seem bells for a while, which of course makes it much harder for big towns ro be repopulated after dying.
The new map has obviously changed a lot of stuff about the base economy of the game while easing the food pressure in many stages of civilization. I'm worried we're again in a time without worries, without a reason to rush. Iron nerfing has been utterly countered by the additions of jungles, turkeys, fishing. Is it time for a nerf to the invisible food bonus? For those that don't know, all foods have a base value and an additional bonus of two, given by the server. Berries, for example would give a mere 3 without the bonus.
I don't think we should get rid of the bonus entirely, as it would murder most eves and completely overhaul food economy, but we might be ready for making the +2 a +1. Of course, it might give us need for some extra ballancing, specially in more wild food that are either ready or easy to consume, stuff like burdock and carrots, maybe like eggs too, would be the most optimal, I think. This way when the easy wild food runs out you wont be able to rely on berry farms unless you want to grab/make a lot of soil and spend a bunch of water.
This opens space for:
Actual consumption of iron reserves without needing to nerf tools (through higher soil and shovel demand)
More water suppy upgrades, as we'll get less food per water
An actual need to search for iron after the tenth or something ore/after finding a mine.
A push for eating wild food like eggs, turkeys, fish and rabbits, all better designed than bananas.
Of course, nothing of this works if bananas are so common and renewable to the point its better to be naked in the jungle with mosquitoes than clothed and hunting some neat mouflon. Jungles have changed the map for much better, but bananas are just too much.
I did survive today when I was quite young (well, I did die, but it was because it took me a while to notice i was ok and could eat. i survived the duration of the fever)
I rushed to snow though.
And Booklat, I recently ran a berry patch adjacent to a road, and it was fine, once I learned to keep my stash of bowls and baskets on the opposite side of the patch (off screen) from those on the road. I also was able to collect my stash of bowls by running down the road, so a road near a berry patch isn't all bad.
But there is no adantage of building fast roads inside the village or more specifically, it's structures. It's wasteful and less practical. The best I can think of a fast road inside a village is from bakery to pen if they're too far (which shouldn't even happen).
Why would I want to disable a side of the berry bushes to people who are feeding sheep/making compost? When you gotta feed sheep fast you cant wait for the one good side of the bushes to be always fruiting.
Is it absolutely awful to have fast roads near berries? nah.
Is it an annoyance for anyone counting on every tick for efficiency? yep.
Its not just farmers, newbs sometimes die because they cant eat the berries as they start insta walking the road when try to get food (usually already later than they should)
it's funny that we've been testing this even before it was a bug, but now it really is
Before adding too much new challenges... could we also leave some room for air maybe? I'd like to see people to build churches for example. Why? Because. They aren't needed for survival, but they look nice. Leave at least some room for self expression. At least on later stages of a civ.
Also another thing you often see at indy computer games.. the devs and hard core vets design the game for keeping the game challenging for them. While for the vast majority of people it's beyond doable anyway. Like for example one game in open beta right now, I love it, it actually keeps getting easier as it develops... Still when I watch people playing on twitch I see so many still struggeling. And they just even added an "even easier" mode, to keep the game accessible. Anyway, nothing stops for the cool guys that even with lots of experience wanting to have a challenge to have a "hardcore server" which is much more unforgiving.
This game breaks when it gets too easy, lionon. There's almost nothing to do if your village has all figured out. We've had people building libraries and churches, and sacrificial altars, but soon enough, when cities are this big, murder sprees will start happening and also A LOT of players feel even more lost than at small towns with still developing tech. These players end up hella bored because there's only so much fun you can have while chilling by the berries with your family and speaking through very limited character restrictions.
There ar still very easy and very overpowered things in ohol. Berry farming and making pies is something all newer or less virtuous players can do, if they learn to do it efficiently, even better. We still got milk, which isn't so easy to get much of, but can feed many people if managed right. Theres also stuff like planting milkweed, which also helps a lot and isn't hard to do (just boring).
My point is, before steam came all we had was "a room for air" for quite a while. Jungle and the new players just happened to turn the game upside down, but few weeks without major rehauls and we might be back at stability. Arguably a more well balanced stability than before the ones we had previously - since we now have so many other challenges.
The question we should all be asking is:
do we want jungles to be a biome where it's possible to settle or just a place to challenge old playrs and with nice loot?
If we want the former mosquitoes don't need to be buffed but bananas should be rarer. If we want the later it's better to make mosquitoes deadlier.
I'd particularly prefer if you could set quickly there early game for food, heat, raising babies but could not safely do so until late game (maybe after yellow fever vaccine or ways to kill mosquitoes). For that, if I was Jason, i'd make fever much hotter and bananas slightly rarer.
The best way to manage labour is if you're an experienced enough player to notice when others are trying to help but not really suceeding and you happen to have a similar task needing working on.
Yesterdady a girl was making fast roads near berries, which is absolutely a bad thing to do as it makes filling bowls a pain in the ass. I' been previously making a path to an iron vein so when I saw her I immediately explained and asked for help. Even gave her my bag as I got older. I had gotten people to smith iron i've gathered in this same life so we were pretty close to mining that vein even though most players in this city were new and we were quite behind on tools and iron when I was born.
You seem like a person that tries to do their best, you'll soon be able to manage people without even noticing.
Here's what I suggest.
Check if your town has all these tools: Axe, shovel, hammer, froe, adze, file, saw. If so you can make a pickaxe and try to find an iron vein.
Long term no cities are sustainable as you keep needing to find iron to replace your tools. Iron mines once found and extracted guarantee you'll have some more iron for a few gens at least or provide for the tools you'll need for sheep (shears and knife).
If you really want a city to last you absolutely have to make a bell tower though. Bell towns are always the most advanced as they usually end up being revived a few times before getting stable settlements nearby.
Lionon, check pein's last pen guide. I think its number 3.
Like tarr said, bananas should just decay or be rarer. They work well already but should definitely not be so exploitable.
I don't think you should make fever a mean killer disease without adding some ways to avoid mosquitoes or the disease, but it could still be a little bit meaner. Making the bar half as big is great, no need to make it a third, but the heat should be really bad and maybe the timer a few seconds longer. Maybe just enough for it to kill you unless you can get much colder or be fed.
I think it'll leave a bad taste if jungles suddenly become unviable or bad so I think nerfs should be really moderate (except for banana trees).
No, picking last berries actually helps berry farms as bushes will be able to be reset faster. In fact, reseting bushes is much better than growing more.
berry farming has changeed a lot since when th game waas first released but its been this way for a while now.
(also feel free to empty wells and ponds. Wells can also become more efficient if you build cisterns close so you can always empty wells all at once in them - to prevent well refills being reset every time water is taken)
I'm curious about the "too many berry bushes are bad" thing.
Like, I get it in theory. Gooseberries require resources to maintain (water + soil/compost + time) so you're losing efficiency when a bush sits around getting unused.
The problem is, in my experience, it's impossible to say something like "we need exactly 20 berry bushes, no more, no less." Settlements are in such constant flux, one moment you have a couple adults working at the forge living off pies and the gooseberry farm is going unused, and the next moment the good players are dying off, everyone starts having triplets, people need compost for milkweed or whatever and suddenly you're in the middle of a gooseberry crisis. I understand the efficiency issue but I also try to be prepared for these crisis situations.
It seems like such a micro thing when there's probably way bigger issues going on in your town than having 5 extra gooseberry bushes temporarily going to waste.
It's not just that, but big bush fields often have no spaces for bowls, soil or buckets.
Also, why plant new berries when it's cheaper to reset old ones (both iron and soilwise)?
It's also a lot more labour to plant new berries than it is to reset old ones. Just picking on the last berries of bushes allows you to prepare for soiling and watering later, while if planting new ones you'd need seeds, hoe, two soil for optimal hoe usage and water. and theyll have to grow and only after that start fruiting.
Base 7 food for a banana is too much, I think. Or maybe it is time for the invisble bonus to be lowered. Either way I agree there is little pressure on food with bananas as they're now.
Bananas are such a godsend (so many calories, just growing from the trees, in bunches, ready for picking with no tools, in a warm biome!) that it would make sense for them to also come with a curse. Perhaps banana peels not only clutter up the tiles making it hard to drop items, but also attract or even multiply mosquitos.
Just my guess, but I wouldn't be surprised by it.
We need to discover pesticides.
Hi, welcome to ohol. Here we turn even non-violent doggos in griefing tools. If banana peels multiply mosquitoes we're all dead.
I mean, don't we have less iron in the map now that mountain biomes are scarcer? I'm not sure jungles can support a big population for long solely on bananas.
But maybe banana trees could be made a bit rarer. This is already a biome which encourages early and late game settlements. Have you found that the trees are too common?
I could always become a nomad if I didn't care for the area I was born into
I would love to be able to play as a legit nomad, just hunting, gathering and trading. The problem is that there is no way to carry your kids, so you either have to abandon your babies, or abandon your spoils. It’s the nature of the game that you’re pushed to settle.
If it wasn't so damn easy to lose sight of people without zoom you could have families travelling together and sharing loads. I guess you still can but gotta depend on people walking slowly or having the mod.