One Hour One Life Forums

There's a lot to unpack in your response, but in general I believe you agree with me. Griefers do a lot of griefing per life-time; the more successful they are, the more they get away with.

That's why I'm very careful when I say that the system would have to be able to track specific conditions when evaluating whether an action is "griefing" or not.

Is a player stabbing another player griefing? Well, that depends.

Are they stabbing someone holding a bloody weapon? (i.e. responding to a murder with more murder)
Is this the second - or more - time they've successfully attempted a murder?

The idea that this revolves around is the fact that griefers commit more 'negative' actions than the regular players do. Ergo, writing out the 'negative' interactions that, along with very few and limited 'positive' interactions.

Keep the positive and negative bars separate; have repetitive "negative" interactions give exponentially more points; on the other side, have "positive" interactions only give single points, seldom. Thus make it hard to 'farm' positive karma, but easy to gain negative if you are repeatedly doing negative interactions.

At the minimum, this means that griefers would have to reduce their griefing by a measurable amount, and in exchange would have to actively hunt for 'positive' interactions to avoid eventually getting flagged by the system.

What a nice comment!

Nothing you said in response is necessarily wrong. Yes, I am oversimplifying the idea of griefing by wrapping up Antag roles into it to get my point across. You are right that Antags can still grief by going outside of their "allowed boundaries" as per their objectives, but that's my point; there's tolerable levels of griefing that can be wrapped into an Antag system that Jason could separate from the less-tolerable methods of griefing, just like how Antagonist involves doing certain things that conflict with other players in order to obtain your objectives.

That's the long-term idea behind introducing such a Karmic system. 'Legalize' griefing similar to SS13 in a way where players who opt-in to trying to play the role of an "OHOL antag" are given an objective and the system doesn't punish SOME of the negative interactions while they're in that life.

In regards to your position of SS13 antags not being griefers, if the Antag system didn't exist, those Antag players would technically be griefing. Like I said in the above paragraph, Antag roles are a justified separation from standard griefing the add chaos to rounds.

I understand that it's the moderators that have to also push a balance of the Station vs. the Antagonists, but keep in mind the environment they're given to "balance" only lasts an hour; any overreaches in either direction are 'wiped' within 30-120 minutes of the action being taken.

OHOL doesn't have that same timeframe, its cities and lineages last between multiple hours to even the span of days. The power balance between players is also VERY in check compared to how much power a player in SS13 can accumulate in a round.

Civilization-building is not without opposition, just as Space Station 13, at its core, is about working a job on a space station and not dying.

SS13 has tons of content, building capabilities, et cetera, that the game could be entirely focused on just expanding the station and having everyone do their jobs, but that's not what makes it inherently fun. What makes it fun is accomplishing those despite the antagonistic intentions of some of the crew.

If we borrow from IRL, not every person has the same interests as every other person. Not everyone is created equal. Unfortunately, some people end up wanting to see society devolve, or want to see society change for the worse. Some people act or operate in 'evil' manners for their own reasons.

No society has developed without setbacks in some fashion. If the game was devoid of conflict, then not only would it not an interesting game, it wouldn't actually be a civilization-building and parenting simulation.

Edit: Regarding your comments on PvP: As far as I'm concerned, Jason has added content that the game itself does not support Yet. OHOL has laughable "PVP" mechanics both directly and indirectly, that I refuse to accept War exists in OHOL. The fact of how rare Meme Swords get used on a day-to-day basis should be a testament to how much work his spawning system needs (and other systems) before War is even possible.

Yeah, if towns are setup properly they "only" last a few IRL days. That's not short in my opinion, but hey, it's an opinion.

The point to the game is to try and keep towns "alive" long enough that

1) The technology gets "passed forward" to the next town, and so on and so forth, and
2) The playerbase gets enough room to "learn" from their parents, or on their own volition, in a relaxing environment that only sustaining megacities can provide the room for.

When a town has tons of food and tons of water in the Cisterns (which will occur every few generations), there becomes space for parents to feel less pressured to gather, that they can focus on their kids and teaching them new things they may not know, or their kids teaching them something new, etc. etc.

There is a % of the population that is 'enlightened' to how critical aspects of towns work.
There is a % of the population that is 'griefing' however much they can.
There is a % of the population that is 'berrymuncher' and just do whatever they've learned on their own and play extremely care-free despite everyone dying.
The remaining % of the population are players that have yet to fall into one of these stereotypical categories are are just feeling their way through.

The meta of the game at this point is to try to increase the % ratio of 'Enlightened' versus 'Griefers'. This can only happen if the current players that are 'enlightened' are able to pass on knowledge to the rest of society, which will only happen during the windows where towns are well-supplied.

Sounds good. Enjoy the week off!

When you return, we got a Waystone to talk about... ^^''

Hopefully people have started to catch on to the 'meta' of the game as it exists now.

Towns inevitably fall due to Westward eve travel. No town will last forever, but towns can certainly last for a while, as long as they have resources, multi-cultures, and prosperity. Building belltowers ahead of the 'decline' of the existing bell town is the new 'priority'. Establish the site of the next town before you lose sight of the one you have. With the right conditions, it'll be the next Oretown, or the next Twobear, or the next Two-bell.

Yeahhh, the town didn't quite go as swimmingly as I would've hoped it would, but I guess it's still surviving and lasting as long as it has despite that? (and a whoooole lot of griefing)

This was originally the plan for Ursa Town (or Twobear Town), to have a bunch of existing buildings and doors in place next to Rabbit-holes that would help prevent people from accident-stabbing them out of place, but ultimately time ran out, and a lot of other griefing nonsensical-ness occurred, so we launched the town as it was at the time.

Originally, Twobear Town had a family in it with a good 8-9 Tired Horsecarts.

By the time regular people started inhabiting it and staying there 24/7, that was down to 2 Horsecarts. Now, it only occasionally has horses.

The biggest flaw in my eyes was not getting the farm shape established quickly, in the same way that Hub Town's farm design was established. People decided to...go crazy with the shapes and ended up making something else completely different. Unfortunately, I also saw after the fact that tile space availability also remained way too low, mainly due to the lack of boxes that should have been everywhere from the start.

I think the road network connecting the north and east-west sides of town did pretty good. No obnoxious connection to one of the doors, just a pathway to the most important areas. That's how in-town roads should be, imo. I thought that the road would solve the distance of rest of town from the smithy, but no, that was a horrible idea. Way too far from Nursery fire, made it a PITA for the blacksmith to have to run out and constantly get a new fire going.

In the end, I did get a lot of valuable data out of the town, namely:

1. If you're going to make an indoor smithy, you have to build external storage nearby or else the room will get way too occupied
2. Indoor smithies just aren't practical. People don't like the cramped work environment and it limits the places where it can be, even if it defines the areas that the smithy is
3. Outlining the farm tiles is critical to ensuring future work-space. No early outline = 3x3 or massive berry fields with little space in-between.
4. Sheep pen, Bakery, and Berry-carrot farms all being in tight proximity = fast turn-around times on wool/compost/mutton.
5. A Town can be built litearlly anywhere, even in the Badlands, as long as compost is started quickly enough and there are quality resources/buildings in the area to take advantage of the location.

Indeed, happy holidays to you as well.

Good luck and godspeed on fixing the rest of the content bugs. I know that while I may want more content/mechanics to keep the game moving, and have my own laundry lists of things I'd want to talk over, these really need to get cleaned up before we keep moving forward.

Pack it up boys, this thread's already been answered in the past.

War does not exist in OHOL.

It just flat-out doesn't.

Look at a game like TF2 that has PvP content. Now imagine that after you were killed by the opposite team, you then respawned as part of the opposite team and are now being told to fight your allies.

That is essentially OHOL combat in a nutshell. That's not engaging or realistic to PvP content for this game. Ergo, War in its natural term does not and will never exist in OHOL without MASSIVE changes in the way Jason handles spawning.

Jason already addressed this when he initially conceptualized Hierarchies and doesn't 'want moms instantly becoming countesses' or something along those lines.