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#76 Re: Main Forum » End conditions for the rift... » 2019-08-21 20:00:42
...
Bruh, i just envisioned it the way you pictured it.
Towns collapsing one after another due to lack of food; people refusing to bring ingredients to other towns 'cause everyone wants an apoc now.
The vast majority of players is stuck being born as eves and starving as eves 'cause there will be no food at all on the whole map for them.
The ones who are born into families are left to starve 'cause people cant sustain them.
The cities are falling one after another due to internal and external greifing...
It finally comes down to one single civilization that stands in the way of a new begining..... The Greenhat Town!
Composed of self sufficient private town and 100% fenced off, self sustaining slums.
A big group of capitalists runs the main city from discord
All the other players on the server either get born in the slums, that have a strict 20people policy, get born in private town and left to starve or be born as feral eves/to feral eves and starve.
The greifing of slums bears no long term results 'cause all the neccessary resources will be produced and teleported there from the private town. It will be repopulated in a similiar way.
Holy shit that would be hilarious.
There is an opportunity to make the reset condition exciting and a critical part of the arc.
totems which will reset the server unless they are "fed" in some way
Yes, that's what im talking about! An apoc condition that triggers unless procrastinated by people, not one that is brought forth by people! That's a nice one.
It could get slightly problematic if people decide to block it off with newcomens and the server will no longer be able to interact with it though. Blue's picture idea didnt have that problem.
What if those totems were craftable objects? and could be set down fairly easly, like 1st tier apoc towers, but for them to be settled as monuments they needed to be integrated with some advanced stuff? Then they could be tracked down like monuments. The reset condition would look like: if last totem settled is older that 12h, reset.
#77 Re: Main Forum » CONTENT » 2019-08-21 10:44:15
Oof.
The guy's been making content till he ended up with over 150 unsolved game issues. Now that he's finally decided on fixing them... we need content.
Really sad that he refuses to get help with this kind of stuff. Must be hard to try to keep everyone happy on your own.
Welp.
#78 Re: Main Forum » End conditions for the rift... » 2019-08-21 10:19:51
Sorry, but this is hilarious. You can't really expect to see the results of map being depleted of resources on player stats. That's not how your game works. Maybe it's how you wish it to work, how you're trying to make it work, but that's not how it works right now.
It isnt even about the wild food.
Soil, Water, Stone Hoe uses, Iron Hoe uses, Shovel uses.
That's all.
These are the only links between the tetch chain and the food production chain. And we only need the latter for the player stats. With the abbundance of ponds, free soil and stones, we can keep a villege alive without the need for iron or a well for looong time. We just need some buckets, some baskets, a horsecart and a bowl.
And with the diesel mining pick, we can keep the map alive pretty much endlessly, resuscitating the same towns over and over and over again.
The map can be greifed into oblivion and we can have 4 towns using roughly 10'000 tiles each and have 460'000 tiles of the map to be a without a single tree, mufflon or goose and infested by bears; with all the wild berries dug out, wild food already consumed and all the cacti blocked by newcomen towers.
It doesnt matter.
The food cicle is self sustaining and 4 resourceful towns are enough to sustain a populationg of 70 players, which is the current top. It's gonna be a rinse and repeat of the same stuff for days. And some people will slaugher the towns off, kill their sheep, deplete their berries, greif its stew ingredients etc, in an attempt to force a reset. That also wont matter.
In such a limited map, just like it takes a few people to bring forth havoc and chaos, it takes only a few people to prevent it from dying out completely.
When pein made his engine from scraps gathered in five towns and used it to restore the iron to the map, little did he know that there were 2 engines hoarded away, a stash of 20 iron hoarded away and that someone had 3 chests full of steel and engine parts.
I remember i was making chisels in the NE town with some of that hoarded iron, back in the day, to use them with my engine to get more iron for more engines and keep the hell going longer and this man on a horse cart just came, brough iron, took my chisels and let me to his own engine that was closer.
Similiar stuff happened with junipers: people planted some of them hidden on the map and used them to replant them elsewhere.
The same stuff will happen with food ingredients. People will just store them away, then, when map gets low, we will reproduce them and get them to towns to replant them. All for the sake of prolonging everyone's suffering helping people survive.
Player stats can't possibly tell you how bad the situation is. Exept for a steady decline in the player average over the days, that tells how many people quit playing on bs2 out of frustration, but that's not something you can use, is it?
All the automatic reset conditions you tried to apply:
Eve window + number of moms;
Eve window + babies/mom;
number of families;
Are basically an indicator of murder sabotaging + how many players are around.
The eve window being superfluous as people spawning as eve cant really play as one anyway: they gotta settle in a dead town. Do or die.
The "if number of families drop below x" Is also an indicator of how many players are around + sistematic elemination of foreign families. It will be achieved as soon as most of the playerbase goes to sleep.
I get it, it would be really cool to have a system that automatically detects when the arc is no longer worthy of being continued and ends our suffering, but you're basically trying to create a virtual god, for a virtual world, that passes judgement on wether the world is worth of being kept alive or not... And you're trying to do it using only a bunch of player stats and you expect it to be right!
Just give us the power to decide that. And not with endstones that some people just rush at begining and teleport outside the rift.
#79 Re: Main Forum » miskas' brilliant replacement for Donkeytown » 2019-08-21 09:19:38
That would definetly be an improvement to the current system. It still has many issues though.
The definition of "greifer" is so subjective that here everyone is a greifer, even if they dont think that they greif. So it would be nice to let us decide who we want to play with and who not.
There are some very unsettling ways that it will play out though. I assume unlimited cursing tokens and no redemption here.
People who sabotage the map by lumberjacking, mass hunting or apocalypse making, play far away from others' eyes and therefore can not be cursed.
People who lure bears in a city or wall it in are generally hard to notice at all and therefore hard to curse
Warmongers normally cant be cursed 'cause they're different families or feral eves. And if you were to tweak the code to allow inter-family cursing, then war of any kind will definetly not be a thing anymore
Likewise, luring bears in a rown and/or trapping it can be done as a no relation
People are guillable. When I spot a stealthy greifer and kill him before he has damaged the town too badly, the greifer will just blame it all on me and i will receive all the curses instead, 'cause mob mentality people would rather play with sabotaging greifers than with vigilantes and they're too stupid to even realize it
People are guillable part two. If we curse the wrong person because of a misunderstanding or similiar names or whatever, we just screwed them and ourselves forever and without even really wanting to do so.
Playing in bad mood will lead to screwing yourself over. Sometimes, when shit happens, and we make the mistake to play afterwards, we are ready to kill and curse people for trivial stuff like forcefeeding (now that it got fixed) or noise spamming or just taking the elder's clothes before us.
On the other hand, a lot of activities done in town will result in a curse clown fiesta. Simple stuff as making a private 5x5 place to grow milkweed in will result in tons of curses 'cause communism rules supreme here. Gathering iron and forging it into tools to take 50 tiles away to make a detached house is also a capital offence: people see you taking the tools, they dont see you dedicating half your life to making them.
Result: many more innocent people will get screwed over than real "greifers". But that's what's been happening now for a while anyways.
Limited Curse tokens would definetly mitigate it. For every person who can actually curse responsibly, there are five who can not do that.
I do believe it to be a great improvement over the current system, at least for weeding out those who sabotage towns, if you can catch them. But even then I believe that some form of redemption would be nice to have in place. I remember a person admitted on the forums to be sabotaging large towns just 'cause they didnt want to be born there anymore over and over again and, frankly, as the game is gonna be after the rift (and has been even without the rift), i cant even blame them for that.
Then again, how would redemption work? You curse someone, they bless you back and you're back to being buddies again?
#80 Re: Main Forum » Favourite Outfits » 2019-08-19 12:05:23
Obligatory Santa hat - the warmest permanent hat
War sworded backpack + red shirt
Black pants
Wooden shoes
Not the warmest combo, not the most practical one, probably not the fanciest either. But it's a great compromise between the three.
#81 Re: Main Forum » Capitalistic idea » 2019-08-18 23:25:44
Money is nothing more but a common ground for trading.
Before money (and even in some places nowdays) people would just trade the Products of their own work (e.g. a sack of grain for a bucket of milk or for five dozen carrots). Or they would trade Services (e.g. planting and tending to carrots/smithing iron into steel into tools/trasporting the goods of a neighbour) that took time and effort, just like making their own products would do, for products of services that would require equivalent time/effort. Bonus points for specialized stuff that not everyone can do 'cause it requires knowledge or recourse that not everyone has (e.g. medical treatments).
Not everyone wants to be paid in carrots though, so a common ground was neccessary. One that every product and service could be related to.
That's the logic behind money.
Imo there should be a different approach to capitalism.
To make money viable first of all the trading has to be viable.
Right now the best scenario i can think of:
Town A has a desert and a jungle very nearby, they made a rubber outpost and can mass produce rubber
Town B Has lots of fertile soil deposits that they use up to make a milweed giga farm
In this scenario Town A and Town B can trade 4 rubber tires for 4 empty buckets.
Better yet, Town A has more clay deposits nearby that what they can use, while town B has appassionate cow farmers
So they can Trade a Handcart with tires full of clay for a cart of buckets of separated milk.
That's an example of a town with favorable position trading with a town with hardworkers.
Exept it can never work 'cause it would be much easier:
For town A to eradicate town B and loot their recourses.
For town B to eradicate town A, settle a colony there and just freely use their rubber outpost.
For town B to walk around the map to find sulfur, oil, clay and w/e they might need.
For Town A to wait until hardworking players spawn there and make milkweedfarm out of compost, probably made while also making lots of clothing.
With language barrier, ease to kill, common map and all the players cycling all the possible towns, both the violent and the self-made approaches are much simplier and faster than the trading approach. That's what should be improved in my opinion.
#82 Re: Main Forum » A little thought experiment » 2019-08-18 22:54:36
For me it would be Modernization.
Electricity: Being able to make Aeolic turbines and use their power to pump water, heat up/cool down buildings. Then making a building at that desert tarry spot that has AC inside and doesnt make you boil like an egg. Making batteries used to power stuff like loudspeakers (that allow every player in a large radius to hear you. Useful for coordination)
Tractors: Having a machine that can hoe up several tiles of soil easily, that can inseminate large camps of milkweed or wheat or corn, that can irrigate them just as easily
Gunpowder and TNT: make bombs that can blow up and demolish ancient walls, bear caves, bell tower bases. Making guns that kill from far away.
Railroad revolution: Trains and long vagons! makes transport of people and goods much faster, but takes ages of group efforts to be built. ('cause, come on, the railcart right now is inferior to a normal cart in pretty much every way)
also
Lather clothes: being able to skin cows and bisons and making lather jackets, pants and boots from animal skins
Medieval Armor and Shields: A probabilistic combat system based on how heavily armored your opponent is, on wether he's holding a shield or not (i mean... it would be much modern than where we are now)
#83 Re: Main Forum » Video Guide for Diesel Engine » 2019-08-14 18:54:57
Aww, thanks for kind words, everyone! I feel useful now 
Pein, i disagree with the 2 tile newcommen setup. It does feel less cramped, but it's also less efficient.Iif we count all the steps taken between heating up, processing, dropping down, returning to point 0, we have:
For the 1 0 0 1 setup: 4 tiles taking 2 steps, 8 tiles taking 3.4 steps, 8 tiles taking 4.8 steps steps.
| |4.8|3.4|3.4|4.8| |
|4.8|3.4|2.0|2.0|3.4|4.8|
| |for|ste|ste|new| |
|4.8|3.4|2.0|2.0|3.4|4.8|
| |4.8|3.4|3.4|4.8| |
For the 1 0 1 setup we have: 6 tiles taking 2 steps, 8 tiles taking 2,8 steps, 2 tiles taking 4 steps
| |2.8|2.0|2.8| |
|2.8|2.0|ste|2.0|2.8|
| |for|ste|new| |
|2.8|2.0|ste|2.0|2.8|
| |2.8|2.0|2.8| |
That said, the newcommen doesnt last long, so we only got time to process 8-9 things tops. That's 21.6-25 steps for 1 0 0 1 setup and 17.6-20.4 steps for 1 0 1 setup.
It doesnt matter at all for the hammer part, since it has to be used twice regardless, but when working on oil, the closer version lets you craft that one extra pipe with the limited water that the villege peobably has.
#84 Re: Main Forum » Capitalistic idea » 2019-08-14 04:56:03
As much as i hate dealing with berrymunchers and as much as i get filled with despair whenever i look around a town/small settlement and see that for every hardworking person there are 3 people just idling around, not knowing what to do, chatting in front of the forge or trying to figure out the berry respawn time and i realize that i gotta be the baker, the smith and the gatherer in a villege of 6-10 people... this idea of implementing capitalism feels like an entirely different game.
In Ohol every item has to be out there, visible and interactable. The closest thing to money are probably golden lingots, but their value is such that one will have better results in trading by using mushrooms or burdocks as money. 2 second craft apocalypses, invincible fences and indiscutebly owned gates are already a lot of misticism to swallow. Spirital money, gained by sacrificing tabaco to a diety, are a bit too much.
#85 Main Forum » Video Guide for Diesel Engine » 2019-08-14 01:21:17
- DarkDrak
- Replies: 7
Written guides exist already, but some people had difficulties with them since the process to this one is a bit complex, so here's a vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sMX_GlwgbA
Hopefully at least someone will find it helpful.
#86 Re: Main Forum » Every griefer uses the zoom mod » 2019-08-13 18:59:44
Drinking blood of my victims from a glass
Ayy, water drinkers can't be trusted! They're all evil!
Seriously though, the association between greifers and zoom mod is like the association between school shooters and videogames.
Don't you get annoyed of losing the people you follow 'cause they run 9 tiles away from you while you stop to eat a berry?
Don't you get annoyed of not being able to find your horsecart anymore 'cause it run somewhere while you were carrying rocks?
#87 Re: Main Forum » Community Crucible Modded Server » 2019-08-13 17:46:00
I gave it a shot.
Got a kiln running before I starved with grey hair.I only ever saw two biomes and praery basically had no source of straight branches. (I actually found one straight branch in my entire time on praery).
Is there a zoom mod compatible with the server?
Yeah, those biomes are huge, but 4 of them are livable. If you want to settle in the praterie, i'd reccomend to make a farm for straight branches early on. Saplings take 5 seconds for get to next stage, so one man can plant lots of trees fairly easly.
Hetuw mod works well for crucible, you just have to put it inside its folder.
Didnt try awbz on it, but should be the same thing as long as you extract it in the crucible folder.
#88 Re: Main Forum » l cant get in my game » 2019-08-13 01:47:01
If you got it on website, then check your email for messeges on upgrades from Jason Rohrer: there should be a link to your own download page. Or look for the first email you got when you first got the game.
#89 Re: Main Forum » 8 days was too long, but what would be ideal? » 2019-08-11 22:02:12
The thing that I still don't fully understand is that, if it really WAS a barren wasteland, why were you all still surviving so handsomely in there? Average age hadn't fallen that much, etc. This means that everything is very out of whack in terms of survival pressures. Seems like you can survive just fine in a barren wasteland (without fire? Without iron?).
Some junipers were missed, some were replanted and protected, thus fire has never been doomed rift-wide. But it still led to some people running their whole lives around the map in search of some tinder, without finding any. just like it had happened with mapples.
Since only one resource was targeted at a time, the map wasnt exactly "barren", it was deprived of that single resource. Thus survival was possible and easy enough, but tecnological advancement was impossible/extremely difficult.
#90 Re: Main Forum » 8 days was too long, but what would be ideal? » 2019-08-11 21:08:12
I'm afraid you're operating under the wrong assumption that time is the major factor in how interesting/stale the arc is. Time clearly is a factor, but it's not the decisive one. Greifers Players are.
In this arc things went more or less smoothly for the first few days; then it precipitated down over two days and the last few days were spent trying to figure out a way to make an apocalypse happen.
What happened is that a few people decided to systematically rid the map of a few select, vital resources and the map turned into a wasteland in no time. It's no fun to play in a wasteland.
In my opinion, if you want to let this thing run itself, you should either make vital recourses hard to systematically destroy or make them non-vital.
Im sure that nobody would care about juniper annihilation if we could start fire without tinder.
#91 Re: Main Forum » 10'000 Years prize » 2019-08-10 12:14:45
Make it so that when you press and hold a specific button - maybe not shift since it's used for killing, but maybe ctrl or alt - you can see behind trees, walls and caves, and people's names appear above their heads.
You gotta try hetuw mod out.
How about a counter to swords as well, like a block that stuns both parties?
You mean shields, right?
All of the above. Especially the lighter one.
+ make all trees, exept for swamp and dead ones, hard to greif
+ At very least make our little rift expandeble/climbable over somehow.
+ Make Apoc harder
+ Make babies able to speak full sentences at 5-6. It's not normal for elementary school-aged kids to still take so much time to talk properly.
#92 Re: Main Forum » in 15 hours the current arc will be a week old... » 2019-08-09 11:15:34
Jason forgot to make chopping down juniper trees hungry work.
And he forgot to make Palm trees require hungry work aswell. And the Yew trees aswell.
#93 Re: Main Forum » Can we just all agree to end it all » 2019-08-07 19:31:37
i just went across the map and found a total of 2 dark nosaj. so unless someone hoarded at least one endstone, player-triggering an apocalypse is impossible now.
And im pretty sure that reaching 35 families with 70 players is also impossible 'cause even if we reach 30, it's gonna take more than 12 /dies for someone to spawn as a 31st eve.
So yeah, this arc wont end until jason manually nukes it.
there's still an engine someone hoarded away though. But it cant be ok for the whole map to get their iron from one single engine.
#94 Re: Main Forum » Discord - The breeding grounds Of Griefing » 2019-08-05 19:30:35
RedComb, you're right. This shitshow is brought forward by the inability of telling who's who and who did what, thus everyone's pointing fingers.
Dodge, demn man. I made wrong assumption 
You gotta give a zoom out mod a try though. I promise its a huge change in the quality of experience.
#95 Re: Main Forum » Discord - The breeding grounds Of Griefing » 2019-08-05 19:20:47
Holy shit, this became a clown fiesta.
Lava, i got no clue on what they did in the last... 4? days. Im not responsible for that and im sure they can defend their own dignity. When i played with them, we mined our own iron, grew our own milkweed farm, made our own oil pumpjack etc. And everyone left their towns by the age of 3-4 and got to the location by the time they were 10 at most. Cant see even the need of stealing stuff. It was indeed just a private town. And when you have a private town with working people, a lot of resources accumulate throughout lives.
Fulmen, thanks for defending me bruh.
Slinky... you and i have a problem here.
defending the people doing it isn't right.
Yeah, but accusing people of stuff they didnt do isnt right either.
If you gotta point me out on greifing, at least state what i did correctly.
#96 Re: Main Forum » Graphs from this arc so far » 2019-08-05 12:18:13
Well, win state is a separate matter that I will think about in the future.
Also, what, exactly, you win if you win...
That's interesting. So far we can only fail and arc. All that we have controll of, is how fast or slow we can do it. Some win condition would be nice.
How about this: if we reach the win condition, you will take one suggestion from the community and implement it. Would also make good use of the poll system: take some suggestions from forums and see which people would like to see the most.
Twist is: only take suggestions that add something, not some that remove stuff. Like "remove swords" is invalid but " add shields" is valid.
#97 Re: Main Forum » Discord - The breeding grounds Of Griefing » 2019-08-05 12:08:48
What they do is they get born to a town, get the gate permissions, and then let their Eve friend in to slaughter everyone.
Interesting. First time hearing about this one.
It's a specific group doing it. Their Discord ID's are Chomp (@chomp231#5155), Zivisziv (@Zivisziv#8115), @Shaivi Baine (@Shaivi Baine#1895), @JACK HAMILTON (@JACK HAMILTON#4255), Dark (@DarkDrak#5301), and some more but they're not 100% confirmed.
Honestly, they need to be banned from both the discord and the game. They add nothing to the community and are just general garbage people.
Awesome. Took a break for a couple of days. Then played another couple of days leading normal lives, not even active in discord. And now im a 100% confirmed greifer, doing stuff i never heard about. Wow, how does this work? Psychic powers? Deduction skills in a complete different league of what i can grasp? Please, do enlighten me.
Not gonna deny that i greifed after the Arc upgrade. Not gonna deny that i like playing with these people. Will deny my involment in this one. Will deny any greifing accusations before the Arc upgrade (exept the apoc ones).
That aside, i believe you don't realize how chilling it can be to make a private town with people from discord. A town without berrymunchers, without drama, without idiots stabbing you out of nowhere or taking the stuff you need from under your nose. A place here everyone knows who you are and you know who's everyone else.
Nor how interesting it can be to make other projects with a coordinated group of people. You should give it a try.
P.S.
P.S If they didn't used out of game ways to coordinate like discord they couldn't do half the shit they do currently, they are not that good smile
So true. If you used out of game ways to coordinate, you could do twice the shit that you can currently do aswell.
P.P.S It they didn't use mods to zoom out, see behind trees etc, they would be even more trash lol
So So true. Personally, before i got the zoom out mod, an eve Tarr XXVII could slaugher all the town around me and i wouldnt even notice, or i would lose her trying to chase her 'cause it feels like being blind. And it took forever to find rollers and carts hidden behind trees by kids. I know you can relate, fellow trash 
#98 Re: Main Forum » Free account. » 2019-07-30 04:15:39
#99 Re: Main Forum » Why did the previous arc end? » 2019-07-29 00:27:29
the fix of that bug failed. i myself was born to a donkeytown eve 1h after it went live.
#100 Re: Main Forum » My impressions on the new update. [Maple tree discussion] » 2019-07-27 18:12:56
As i suggested in another thread, which already got burried, smh,
I hear you about the maples.
Not sure there's a way I can fix that for you.
I believe that Coppicing could solve the problem. if tree stumps grew saplings after a while instead of straightout decaying, dealing with tree greifing would be way more manadgeble.