a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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But the bottleneck isn't buckets or rabbits, or anything that would be effected by having more spawns.
The current bottleneck is whether or not people are willing to run around and collect rubber supplies. It feels like the same small group of players are coordinating so the rest of us can spend out time teaching new players how to do stuff.
The issue is right now none of us can teach how to fix this issue because you can't just walk a new player to a different town, then to a second different town to show how rubber is made. It's an issue that can only be solved by people coordinating outside the game which is in my opinion a design flaw. No one is trading, they're just having their friends be born a different color and giving the items needed to each family so the game is playable. That's a problem in my opinion.
You can teach cisterns, cart with buckets, and digging up another spring or getting water from ponds. I would think that such isn't all that intended though in comparison to doing rubber, and signals a problem with the game's design.
The issue is definitely not that there are too few resources ...
Well, greater density of milkweed on the map would mean that veterans could make ropes from the wild faster for buckets. Same goes for rabbits, though not as pronounced I think. It would be less time walking around.
I think it's even clearer that the current system is inferior to the system with the short object bug fixed. In other words, the one with more burdock, berry bushes, milkweed, and rabbits. For more than just the pictures above, there's a link in this video of how things looked that week (though with a different biome layout): https://www.twitch.tv/lowimpact_/video/425012426. You can see rabbits waking up in the video, which shows how many more rabbits that map had, and suggests how much more resources it had overall.
Oh, also, lots of clothes are rabbit based. But, more players means a lower ratio of rabbits to players, so less clothing material available per person.
I DO remember though that once there were A LOT more rabbits (and berry bushes and milkweed on the map). It was only a week, but still:
This is now: https://imgur.com/ZWt4IXb
This is how it once was: https://imgur.com/K5s8cda
Also, from the streams I've seen, families are mostly naked or close. With normalish family numbers, players had a lot more clothes.
I played three days early morning hours EST when it was 40-60 total player pop and got myself fully clothed and got some clothes for my children, but it was more like normal family size, not what I see mid-day EST with lots of nudity and 100ish or more server population.
Anyone seen a functioning diesel water pump this week? I'll remind you that they did get made a month or two after the first steam release with higher player population when the bigserver system first came out. So, they have gotten made with high population on a server and lots of new players before. But, not under the current nerfed food and temperature system.
Player population is up. But, judging from "this week's deep roots" it doesn't seem like families are lasting longer. In fact, they seem to last a shorter amount of time.
If anything, from what I can tell it more seems like how things were after the temperature overhaul. Families not really making it past the early stages.
To paraphrase Pein more people should add value. But, honestly, with the new people that's been one reason why I haven't played much since the influx. More people is more clutter. And more people means more people who didn't learn anything useful from the lazy and awful tutorial.
Some people on the discord were commenting that towns die too fast with the westward forever spawn, implying that it was better when the game had the every expanding Eve spiral that would also reset to the longest living family spawn when an update happened. No race restrictions then. Towns did last longer then, since people would reappear at that longest living family spot and old towns could get resettled without needing to get resources from an old town. Also, tarry spots didn't deplete, so one oil rig (and there was almost always one within 100 tiles of tile with the way the map was then) would suffice.
3. Making base far away from well, finding well spot is vital for starting out a camp. Having well spot located will also give road hints to local iron mines which will be necessary. It's though important to give well enough space for later farm, and make at least 5-10 grid space for fire, kiln and oven.
So we're clear here, the farm should be close to the well.
I liked your analysis of garlic, thank you.
Thank you, and you're welcome.
Neptune.
They should call you useless response.
You contribute nothing, also with all the swearing and name calling you do I don't see how your not banned by now.
WTF moderators want to do your damn job?
Did you report? They likely won't do anything without reporting, if that wasn't already clear.
Ah sorry, sadly not! Although it does remind me of a game called Dinner Date in which you go to dinner with a man called Jerry and honestly you wanna smash him over the head with the bottle of wine.
Its ok. I think I've dated myself with that reference, and some others around here probably got it (or would if they read it). And honestly, I don't think that the Jerry Springer Show was worth watching anyways, but it was something that a lot of people learned about one way or another who are about my age.
There's no account of anyone starting to yell, I don't know, because of cheatin' or something, and then a fight ensuing that security needs to break up in the above. You sure your name was Jerry?
Alright, maybe you don't get the reference...
So what's your tool order?
Hammer, axe, shovel, hoe.
Then I go to the mine, and get more, and make a steel file blank and a pick (probably at the same time).
Well, that's if someone brought me that fourth iron. And if I were Eve, I wouldn't have such a spot to begin with.
If I only had 3 iron, I'd make the shovel, dig the well, and then bring home three more.
The one time where I was Eve in the middle of nowhere when it turned out spawning was bugged, and discovered some old dead town with a reset well, I think I grabbed the hammer from the guy making a shovel and made a pick, because I was that worried about having iron. When in doubt, for sure, make the pick, even if it means foregoing digging up the well. I just don't things are that desperate if you just got one mine and no iron has gotten used by anyone else or disappeared to nowhere to the point that foregoing the hoe is warranted.
But yea, early farms will often be pretty crap. An advanced player will probably only farm some so that there is some food and then cook or smith, and new players don't know how to make a good farm from nothing. It's almost never that I've found someone using skewers to farm in an Eve camp. At least stone hoe makers end up doing something also, even though it's a used rope.
If you make a hoe with the fourth your only able to get 4 more iron without a pick with only one mine.
But if you only have the 4 starting iron and no lose iron in the vein then your screwed at this point!
If digging up the well wouldn't release iron, yes. But, then you couldn't use the pick also.
4 more iron is enough to make a pick. Though again, better safe than sorry on that pick.
Also it's not possible to make the 3 starting tools (hammer, shovel, and axe) and what a cart requires with only four iron.
I was talking about not making a cart with the 4 iron from the stone unlock, and the 4 iron from the shovel unlock for 8 iron total. I'll make a pick in that situation for sure.
You need a hammer, chisel, file, saw, froe, and adze.
Add in the shovel and axe, and you get 8, the exact number you get from the free iron when vein is unlocked.
Chisel could get scrapped. I still wouldn't make the cart though. And there's no axe. Don't get me started on players putting kindling on hot coals without being ready to smith or cook immediately in an Eve camp before an axe. It's common and makes it so that players have to run further and further for branches. And they'll cut maple branches, desired or needed for tools. Unless the iron and flat rocks and bellows are there it's honestly probably best to throw a flat rock onto hot coals to prevent kindling thrown on hot coals to heat babies. That's a trap when there's very little food also, since standing around the fire doesn't work when you're starving. I even remember once I had a good spot with a few wild food sources as a tan Eve over a year ago now. My early kids were Twisted, who left for a while and didn't affect anything early in town (he came back later in life and helped out), and at least two "fire makers" as I call them. We ended up with another streamer who was my kid who farmed a bunch, but she died early before her farmed food could grow, because she couldn't find food using Jason glasses (default client), since the fire makers were eating everything up without producing anything, and I was getting steel tools up. It was a shame, because the productive farmer had such a poor situation to work with to support herself.
Restarting the fire is not a big deal, especially compared to using more kindling early on when the fire doesn't get used to smith or cook.
Edit: I remember the other streamers name now. It was smokedurjiveass.
Well why would anyone make a newcomen before a shovel lol.
I mean, of course no one preferably does such ever. Their motives I would think obvious, once we get precise.
And the first tools you should make if you only have one mine are hammer, axe, shovel, and pick.
I think I'd still make one hoe before a mining pick, but I would agree that better safe than sorry on having that mining pick. I wouldn't try to bust out a cart before making a pick for sure. Going to a mine without a mining pick pretty much sucks.
Numberous times I've been born into towns with just a shovel, axe and a hoe, and lose 1 iron, or no iron.
Having to break a couple tool just to save a town shouldn't be a common thing, but you would be surprised I've had to do this a couple times.
Because they didn't remove the iron out before they shoveled the well they only have 4 iron.
Yea, that sucks.
Today in very important Spoon discussions - if you deliberately get rid of all the iron, you won't have any iron left! Egads!
I mean, I guess if you make it to the mine first, someone could just throw iron into a basket and then go put it in a biome where no one in the family could pick it up. That might be more difficult to pull off than clearing out multiple veins and making junk that can't get used or scrapped.
Because of that, I'm going with the iron system as being the bigger flaw here, since this wouldn't have been possible under the iron on the ground system.
So, let's say you end up as child of Eve early. The Eve picks a spot with just one vein, or maybe two. You make a smithing hammer. Then you make a newcomen crude piston, a newcomen crude cylinder, and a boiler, since your family may likely want a newcomen pump eventually. If you have another vein, you make another newcomen crude piston, another crude cylinder, another boiler, and a tank for a newcomen engine and extraction of water from the pump.
But, if such were actually to happen, a family isn't likely to get to a pump in either scenario, since they have to look for something made from steel in some place other than the mines that the family unlocked, which is even worse if this happened with child of Eve at server reset, since dead towns with iron at their veins or in town don't exist. No shovel. No tools to make a bucket, nor a knife, so rubber to make a newcomen engine to scrap those parts seems unlikely to get from another family.
I've never known this to happen in game, but why is this possible? Is this a flaw of the scrapping system, the iron access system, or both?
people who can't do things, won't do things, it's not the language gap, I had 2 translators and the ginger chick still didn't understood why she is needed to do it for us, it's bad mechanics, they don't understand in plain english, why would they understand in klingon
I agree it's not always the language gap. Recently, I made paper before in a place after dropping some bananas out of my backpack, and wrote notes about what I needed. Some black chick took my latex bucket and palm oil bucket cart and put it inside of a desert. Such biome locking of items is not interesting, and at least wasn't stated as intended. Gingers have some reason to do such sometimes, and biome locking of trucks can make sense I think so that they don't disappear to nowhere, but I digress. Fortunately in that case, I noticed that with Hetuw mod it was soon low pop and I could get my cart back and managed to get the sulfur into the latex buckets and make it home. Since they happened in close proximity, it was a good example of how no race restrictions was better.
Also, if I had been able to get the stuff I could have made it back home with more time to have people I could relate to, instead of being an alien in a small village of people who wouldn't do anything for me after I at least brought something, and couldn't relate to.
It's especially strange that Jason talked about personal interactions once regarding race restrictions, because it leads to all this travel time and lack of personal interactions, since people end up ignoring you or not understanding you. Though I haven't played them, I definitely am lead to believe that games with universal chat systems have better things going on than OHOL's dumb system.
single iron and single oil killed the map variety. having more water or iron creates different lives.
Yeah, towns definitely looked more interesting and more various technology wise before the spring system. It was more interesting overall. I didn't like how the charcoal pump would never break (I thought that should have gotten reserved for the higher tech diesel water pump), but looking back I think that's about all that would have made sense to change.
Temperature overhaul also decreased map variety, since even though desert edges were predominant, you would also seen jungle towns, or people trying to rough it in the grasslands or swamps. Having threats of mosquitoes or snakes for everyone was also more interesting than just having the boar threat of today's current game.
So many mechanics that do NOTHING or worse, make the game less playable.
And Jason is stubborn AF, not a chance in hell he'll spend months undoing shit he's done before -even though those weren't needed in the first place
Thing is that seems obvious that some things weren't needed and worse if you think about things even after initial release. It wasn't long until bear caves were added, and they just made things more unplayable for people without any benefit. Someone trying to develop an integrated game would have at least checked if standing around a berry skin rugged floored building was more viable than the effects of bears, assuming that they work. I mean think of it this way:
How many families or players have survived longer due to the use of bear skins compared to the deaths from player caused bear attacks? Also, has any player survived longer or even had a substantially more convenient life due to the use of bear skins than the negative consequences from players caused bear attack after bear attack? At least such is somewhat if not very likely with deadly domestic boars, even though they probably kill far more players than they help.
But what is well tap out doing to the game and what is its value in the game today?
I once was a white Eve and had my ready well site with 9 stones (someone had moved one), tapped out in a jungle area. I tried to move the family, but the player I moved wasn't all that great. There was another time where tapout messed things up: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/752
So, well tapout functions as a way to destroy locations as settable. That's about it. The only benefit lies in that the directional indicators from dry well sites. But, that could conceivably get accomplished by other means, or just get removed, since it doesn't do all that much if you have an expert waystone or can spot signs of civilization.
In short the well tap out radius is forcing towns to move further in order to make a new town.
Yes! Sometimes I've run further west as Eve, because I see staked springs. Again, moving further west like that is a negative.
The same holds for tarry spots and iron, yep. Especially if tarry spots didn't tap out, there would exist more oil, and that would probably make it preferable to use the diesel mining pick than a mining pick to get iron due to a lack of hungry work. Also, using the diesel mining pick is more interesting and engaging than using a mining pick with hungry work. Making chisels and using them is also different than needing more food. And travel time would be likely be reduced.
selalov734 wrote:hmmmm
You might notice all of those are in direct response to Spoony being an obnoxious drag on the community.
Nice you see you leaping to your alt's rescue. Again. You're just being obvious about it now.
Again, I don't have any alts.
Hasnt that always been the game?
No. There's not much killing these days. Well not today, since it's snake bite day. But otherwise, no, not so much.
Have you tried befriending the snake?
No. Does that work wonders?
Have you tried not stepping on the snakes spawning beneath your feet?
You know what... I'll have to try that next time!
Wait... there won't be a next time.
Spoonwood wrote:March 18th-March 30th No changes during that time period.
March 31st:
1. Engines changed to become unremovable from wells and iron mines.
2. A snipped pickling cucumber can get removed from a pickle crock so that a pickle crock can get moved.
3. Domestic garlic is edible at one pip sans yum. A garlic bulb is not edible. One needs to put a garlic bulb into a bowl, mash it, optimally with a round stone, and then pick out a garlic clove. The garlic clove is edible at one pip. Each bulb translates into a bowl of five cloves. Efficiency wise this makes domestic garlic comparable to carrots extremely late generation, or in between peppers and tomatoes once both peppers and tomatoes yield only one pip sans yum. Early game, sans yum, garlic is probably the most inefficient crop (though it's better than before) other than dill.
4. "Wildcard support on vog allow list." I don't know what that means.
There was a note on the discord which said:
"Anyway, I have a little something cooked up... along with the engine fixes... but it's a little hidden. Curious to see who will figure it out first."
wow, an actual update. Thx for posting Spoon, I prefer coming in here than the discord anwyay
You're welcome.