a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Huh, would you look at that. I hadnt watched the trailer in a long time, or the second video ever, but this only confirms my feelings about the new update. While eve is not supplied with clothes at the beginning, he clearly intended for us to wear some clothing before we even consider farming. You dont see any advanced workstations without buildings and heat sources and what? a bunch of fully clothed people. Now a lot has changed since those days, you will not have a full set of rabbit fur clothes as eve or her children, but we do have straw hats, reed skirts and clubbed seals.
Falsewall wrote:We literally had nearly 0 reason to build structures with their resource usage, other than rp & organizing. Jason triages issues & tends to leave redundant things unfixed ( pork anyone?). Wait a week or two for balancing updates that I guarantee are coming next and come back then. Bet you early housing recipe will be fixed.
But the reason for building structures hasn't changed, that remains the same. Structures always provided insulation, they always required the doors to be closed to do so. Like you say, the cost of making them wasn't worth the reward. So instead of making them more rewarding and balanced, he has made everything else more harsh.
If what you say holds any truth then why release a half baked system that doesn't have the content to back it up? This surely doesn't seem logical to do this on the live game servers, forcing every player that uses the official servers to just live with it till it gets better. People don't hang around for long, most don't reach out and continue to follow the situation, they just move on to another game.
But no? The reason actually has changed. The way they provide insulation has changed, and its actually worth your time even to just spam floors all around camp. Before they were mostly decorative, and to create walls of sorts around the various workstations to keep stuff clear on where it goes. Having floors surround a fire without walls will still create a zone of non negligible warmth, and if you did get to that point its because you already have clothes, compounding the effect. Walls do not need to completely surround a space, and if some are at the boundaries of your 8x8 space, they will keep it slightly warmer. Before there was no reason because temp was not compelling enough to sacrifice the resource of time on that task vs other tasks. Now its a must to create some insulative structure.
Make another hatchet?
when i sue it won't be so much about winning as it will showing the dev the importance of customer service. If i go to a store and buy a box that says toaster and when i get it home it is an iron, that is false advertising. Same goes for this game.
For me suing will cost exactly 7 dollars. That will be on serving summons on jason through certified mail. The rest will only take a little of my time and by little i mean about 3 horrid lives of time on OHOL.
People and companies seem to think they can do what they want on the internet, that laws do not apply. But let me guarantee you they do. I expect to win my case.
Okayy, doesnt matter now that you think you can win, because you just said its not about winning but sending a message. There are a number of things that make litigation frivolous, and one is it not being in good faith. Youve just stated its primarily about sending a message about customer service. It doesnt matter if you also think you can win it. There is public and private face, and this is all stuff you could've kept to yourself and attorney but instead are blathering here on the forums. Another thing that is required of litigation is an actual basis in the law, and he clearly didnt engage in any false advertising. He sold you access to his servers, and you still have access to those servers, all of them. You might not like your experience on those servers now, but he did not sell you access to servers that would check off all of your boxes. The only thing that has changed about your access to those servers is an increase in difficulty. If you could no longer connect to the servers, or were experiencing*** game breaking lag, you might have a case, but that's clearly not what your problem is.
unlike jason i certainly am not charging you to read what i write
All I can say is good luck with that, you are clearly delusional.
Yeah, the courts tend to look down on frivolous suits. The only people/entities that engage in them are people with the resource for more than one lawyer(including a top tier one), because you need to exhaust the other party to the point they cant retaliate because of the financial cost. A court would see this post(if it got to the point of a suit) and throw it out(if Jason showed this to the court).
Anandamide wrote:mrbah wrote:Because naked women should appear out of fucking nowhere, right.
Because this is a game and abstractions are made.
The game needs a starting point, however illogical, which like all fictitious(using this liberally) works requires the reader,watcher, or player to at least suspend some of their disbelief in order to create the framework for the rest of the story, game, work of art. What is interesting is what follows after you suspend your disbelief. And in this case it is, what if you are a naked, fertile asexual female who awakens alone in the wilderness(***and in reality, almost no one played on even that difficulty level, because if you have lived past early childhood, its because your family or tribe took care of you***). That, once you are at that point is a very, very, difficult kind of life and so it is fair that it is very, very difficult game to play. Technology(like clothing) make life easier and more productive. In real life, clothing was very hard to obtain. In the beginning it was only stuff you could hunt and gather, and hence clothing was limited to the small animal population in your immediate vicinity. Hominids literally lived like this for over a million years ...
As I understand the history of hominids comes as one living in a rainforest, including the early history of humanity. But, now the early history of "OHOL humanity" has people avoiding jungle like the plague. Eves were sometimes doing that before (I know I generally avoided the jungles when trying to find families as Eve Spoon... I'd lose time if I got bite and I worried about my family having mosquito bites... but I did get born to people trying the jungle, and later I tried it on a low population server), but now I expect every competent Eve will avoid the jungle as much as they can even if some small jungle patch doesn't have mosquitoes. Suspend my disbelief? But how do I do this when "humanity" no longer can originate from a rainforest? And don't people still live there today well enough sometimes with long family histories (granted they don't keep records... but I would guess there is some oral knowledge of their families history)?
Nope nope nope, hominids definitely did not evolve in the jungle. Yes a variety of primates live all over the world, including jungles. No, did our lineage originate anywhere near one. All of the tool making, bipedal hominids evolved in scrubby, Savannah grasslandy areas on the edge of more forested areas. There is no pressure for bipedalism in a Jungle, the only way to see far out is to actually climb into the trees and thats why we see mostly primates that live in the trees. The great apes can do it, but they dont exclusively because there is no point. We stood tall because we could see over the tall grass in the plains, providing advance warning of predators, and creating a more efficient gait that let us do stuff like endurance hunting. We did after evolving come to live in jungles, but that is on one of the branches of our development, not at the roots of the genus homo.

So humans evolved from apes living grasslands, prairies, or swamps... even though apes live in jungles nowadays? Humanity doesn't have any sort of history in a jungle before agricultural, despite an archaeological scientist like this one: https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-ev … ts-0010663 suggest that humanity lived in the jungle before agricultural? Jungles have rich sources of medicine https://www.thoughtco.com/tropical-rain … et-1204030, but also only have mosquitoes that give you a disease?
First off I think you quoted the wrong comment because that quote has nothing to do with where humans evolved. Now aside from that, we didnt evolve in the jungle. We literally evolved in the Savannah and grassland areas in Africa, and just so happened to have traits that made living in jungles suitable when humans reached those environments. Clothing was absolutely essential to reach say, the jungles of central and south america though, because they crossed during the ice age when the land bridge between asia and north america was above the sea level. They absolutely needed clothing to make this trek. South america had no mosquito borne diseases until the columbian exchange brought over diseases from africa like malaria with the slave trade. Almost all of those potential medicines require more advanced technology than any civilizations that rose up in jungles have ever had. Natural herbal medicines are no replacement for antibiotics, even if new antibiotics could be produced from the jungle under the right circumstances, so any "buff" a jungle civ would get from all of this is kinda irrelevant because they couldn't utilize those resources beyond ameliorating a small number of symptoms for specific things. ***Adding to this, the new world had no plagues. There were diseases but no plagues. They only domesticated the alpaca, and domestication is the source of the vast majority of our plagues as in "diseases that either kill you or you live and are immune" And this is why 95% of the population died within a few hundred years of first contact while Eurasia and Africa didnt have to contend with any new diseases.*** Anyways though, thats all irrelevant when discussing clothing, and the temp update, and why we should need it in game. Humans didnt invent clothing and hominids wore clothes for some hundreds of thousands of years before the first actual civilization came into play. It makes no sense that people run around naked making diesel engines and planes, and this is going to force people to cover up. ***Also, no one said humans never lived in the jungle before agriculture, we reached the jungles of this planet thousands of years before then, and you can have clothing without agriculutre, and in fact, its a prerequisite outside of the tropics because there is winter and even a mild one requires clothing and shelter to not die.*** 
I didnt buy the game on steam. But it does have a website and these forums. Jason gives over a week of heads up typically on what the goals of the next update are through the discord under live-dev-changes. There was lots of talk about this update before hand. As for the goal, it really became crystallized in this post: http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=63. While this talks about resources running out, you can see the sentiment that he want the game to be very hard. That he wants the game to constantly be a struggle, because when you do get born into a developed village, it should be a bit of a "wow, so much had to go right with so many people to get to this point". This was right after the steam integration. Should he have more information on steam, maybe, but even better would be more direction to get people to come to the forums. While it doesn't cover all the points, the trailer video still gave me the impression that the game would be hard and that achieving something would carry some meaning because you can only achieve through said adversity. This is not a casual game, despite what it looks like, and should not cater to casual players. Play a casual game if thats what you want or go on or run your own server. I play factorio, and no body got upset at the science update that increased the difficulty and complexity some 3 or four fold. And thats because its not an easy casual game. Thats the huge divide here, people who want to play more casually vs those who dont. I have around that many hours as you and have had to leave and come back multiple times. While I enjoyed coming back and having all this machinery, after building all of it multiple times, I felt that the game was just too easy. Going on an iron run? I could get to ten yum in an established camp, grab a cart, and eat only two or three things on a massive journey crossing many biomes and return with tired hand cart of iron. And that was naked. There is no way to get people to play with clothes in the old meta. Most people would only make one or two long foraging missions(iron, or hunting)in a life,if they even went on a journey like that, and that was for the most part the only time you would really need clothing. A village was more efficient on food with clothes, but that reduced food consumption so much that there was nothing to do. Can temps be made to work better? yes. Is this more "realistic" and pushing players to actually utilize more technology. Yes. Luckily, this is a not a complete game yet, and there is still just so much in the works. If this was the last update, and Jason was like"yall on your own now", then yeah id be mad. But I know that this is not the end and so im gonna embrace the difficulty bump, and wait for future updates that will tie into the new meta. We have at least another 50 updates to the game, He said he intends to update it for around two years or so before final release.
You can remelt tools. Two broken steel tools make one clump of scrap steel which can be put in the crucible without charcoal and fired like a regular crucible. The problem is broken tools despawn so people need to bring broken tools back to the forge right away and hope the next tool breaks soon enough to be recycled with it.
All of those games were made by larger dev teams, except for rollecoaster tycoon, and rollercoaster tycoon came out twenty years ago, and was a completed game on its release. You knowingly bought an incomplete game, but one where the creator laid out his vision for the game, and this is exactly in line with that vision. Youre wanting this game to be something it isnt. Go play factorio or rimworld if you want a variable amount of challenge that suits your needs for bootstrapping something from nothing. There are many many games that have that base concept, and Jason is trying to create a game for a very specific niche of that already very specific genre of sandboxy survival games. There are so many other games that fill those different niches of this genre. So find the one that actually suits you vs trying to have this game become something it shouldn't. Unlike a lot of games, in this one the hardest part is the beginning, because thats how real human development has gone. We traded difficulty of survival for the burdens of a more complex society. He makes lots of abstractions but at the end of the day this is a game that rewards bad choices and bad luck with death, just how real life used to be.
That is part of the game, there is a tutorial. I played before the tutorial and it still only took about a day, with the wiki to be able to do basically everything at an eve camp. If you've spent over 100 hours just trying to figure out how to stay alive then, well you kinda suck at this game. Im no pein or tarr. Im pretty average, and I know I have spent more than an order of magnitude less time getting started than you're claiming you have. If you didn't like the game, say ten hours in. Twenty? Maybe even thirty, then I wouldn't blame you for realizing the game isnt for you. But now 500 hours in? And you cant keep up with the temp changes and somehow that means that the previous 500 hours weren't worth your time? Most of the players with more than 100 hours have mostly adjusted. People have built villages, and pumps and are getting along. Will the temp probably be changed again? Yes. Does it make the game unplayable? No. It has clearly been demonstrated that you can survive, and build and advance.
But no one is saying that? Obviously no one is going to pay $5 for a life. Even if Jason thought that before, its totally irrelevant because he has clearly departed from that model. You don't even have to pay for the game, just to play on his servers, and its never been pay per life. You two are harping on an issue that was never actually a problem. If the game isn't fun for you now, then come back after future updates or don't. I don't know about your playtime, but I know at my playtime, and Rage's, we have certainly gotten our $20 worth. I have netflix, I have soundcloud go, and a few other online services. These all cost about $10 a month and im a pretty average user of both. The average netflix user watches 40 hours a month. A movie ticket costs around ten dollars. A cheap meal at a cheap restaurant is about that much. To get 500 hours of entertainment out of $20 is a fantastic deal. To get 100 hours from $20 still outpaces a the vast majority of entertainments and enjoyable things in life. When you bought this game you knew that one person was making it, and that he was going to work on it alone for potentially the entire development, management, and support of the game, and that like all humans he has a limited time in each day to do all of those tasks.
Booklat1 wrote:because naked women alone in the wilds should have easy lives. right.
Because naked women should appear out of fucking nowhere, right.
Because this is a game and abstractions are made.
The game needs a starting point, however illogical, which like all fictitious(using this liberally) works requires the reader,watcher, or player to at least suspend some of their disbelief in order to create the framework for the rest of the story, game, work of art. What is interesting is what follows after you suspend your disbelief. And in this case it is, what if you are a naked, fertile asexual female who awakens alone in the wilderness(***and in reality, almost no one played on even that difficulty level, because if you have lived past early childhood, its because your family or tribe took care of you***). That, once you are at that point is a very, very, difficult kind of life and so it is fair that it is very, very difficult game to play. Technology(like clothing) make life easier and more productive. In real life, clothing was very hard to obtain. In the beginning it was only stuff you could hunt and gather, and hence clothing was limited to the small animal population in your immediate vicinity. Hominids literally lived like this for over a million years, and the move to fibers from domesticated sources made more exploitable fibers for humans, but very considerable labor cost. Have you even made cordage irl? It takes time and a small amount of skill to make a small amount, and this kind of cordage is wholly unfit for any kind of textile production.
To make a textile, you have to harvest the fibers, remove the waste products, card the fibers to make them more organized, then you must spin the thread or yarn, and then you can, weave, knit or crochet a textile. All of this was done by hand. You needed somewhere between 1:1 to 1:10 people processing fibers(cleaning and carding) to people growing and harvesting them. You needed at least one person carding to supply a hand spinner with a drop spindle, and potentially 3 or 4 for someone using a spinning wheel. You needed approximately four skilled spinners to supply someone working an unpowered hand loom. That unpowered, hand operated loom with a very skilled weaver could maybe produce one high quality scarves worth of fabric per day. Knitting a textile is slower, so it takes fewer people to supply the resources, but that means less textiles overall. In fact, it was our need for better methods of making textiles that lead to the industrial revolution.
Jason is obviously going to add cloth clothing, since he added the loom, and even without using that, we have a number of non decaying clothing items that can be passed on forever, and supplemented with decaying items. Right now the early game solution is to club some seals. If even just you as eve, and one of your kids has one of those, your productivity and chances of survival have gone up considerably and it requires no technology.
You not reading closely enough. He said that Jason originally intended to charge $5 per LIFE, and $20 for FOUR LIVES. Stop, breath, and read before you smash your caps lock button off the keyboard.
Yes, and that never came to pass, literally no one has ever payed per life on this game. If you read closer, my calculation was for his cost per hour of playtime, I didn't assume how many lives he has lived. He clearly stated that he is not getting enough percieved value out of this game, which is absurd because he has played this game as much as he has stated he has. Also, btw, you don't smash the caps lock, its a toggle, not a pulse. You might say, smash the shift button
.
You know, I was introduced to the game via the Vice article last March or so, which made it clear you die a lot when you're starting and it's an accomplishment to live to old age.
I probably came at the game with much different expectations than other people.
THANK YOU
This is exactly how I feel. After you have experience, its no big deal living to old age, but in the beginning, I didnt have a problem with dying and felt like I had done something when I finally started to live to old age. I was constantly eveing and trying to get better and loved the challenge of it. The game had become considerably easier since those days and im excited for the new challenges.
Give me a break i might be new to this forum but i am not new to this game i have probably put in 500 hours. Sure i could stay alive and not starve, but that does not mean it is fun or that i could be productive and get anything useful accomplished. Just because you have a thing for jason and his vision does not mean that everyone else does. This game is NOT FUN.
your hero jason was saying how he first intended to charge five dollars for one life on this game, i wouldn't pay 5 cents.
he has also said that he didn't intend this game to be played for long periods of time that a few lives would be worth the 20 bux. I say bullshit. I pay 20 bux for games like morrowind and i expect to play FOREVER as long as i want, and i also expect there to be quality in the game and it to be fun.
i wouldn't pay 5 cents
Well, at 500 hours, and $20, you have now paid exactly $0.04 per hour for a game. FOR TWENTY DOLLARS, YOU HAVE GOTTEN OVER FIVE HUNDRED HOURS OF PLAYTIME. THERE ARE AAA GAMES THAT COST OVER SEVENTY DOLLARS THAT YOU GET AT BEST, A FEW DOZEN HOURS OF PLAYTIME. You need to have realistic expectations, and if you had bothered to you know, get on the forums in your "500 hours of playtime", and read even a few of Jasons posts, you wouldve seen this coming. This was always his vision for the game, for it to be hard. Entitled screeching just shows how far up your own ass your head is. Jason is one person, and can only really work on one thing at a time, also, you will not have forever replay-ability of this game, as he stated from the outset of this that he intended to do weekly updates for about two years. Its incredibly easy to set up your own private server now with AWBZ mod, and even easier to join some other server. Like others have stated, the game is not impossible now, there are already many towns. Eveing is harder, but it should be hard, you're bootstrapping a civilization.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5247
Change runserver.bat to this:
@echo off
cd /d %~dp0
echo "Creating symlinks..."
mklink /D categories ..\categories
mklink /D objects ..\objects
mklink /D transitions ..\transitions
mklink /D tutorialMaps ..\tutorialMaps
mklink dataVersionNumber.txt ..\dataVersionNumber.txtecho "Starting server..."
OneLifeServer
pause
The reason people with Big Yum are being selfish is after 10 or 15, in a real village where stuff is constantly moving, you will have to take a non negligible amount of time to find new foods around the village, and might even need to produce foods that are fine if everyone did have that yum, but are very inefficient for anyone else to eat. Yum shouldnt just be based on variety, but on the complexity and cost of producing the food. This would naturally push villages to make more complex foods and make that mid level yum easier to achieve if you have those foods without spending so much time thinking about your yum chain and what food you are going to eat next. Even if you do it mostly automatically, it takes a non negligible mental load to work and think of the next food item and where it is and what your backup is if you cant find it. Yum is great when setting off on a big journey looking for resources, but often doesnt time up with when you want to leave, and if you cant find stuff in camp to do while waiting to build up the chain, you're wasting time you could be productive, and potentially hindering your civ from the next advancement.
As for the iron, I mean irl I dont eat oil but the majority of the fertilizer for the foods Ive eaten were made with it. Without iron, a village cannot survive for any meaningful amount of time. Stone hoes barely pay for their own milkweed, use up a straight shaft, and wastes yet another sharp stone in camp, and stresses the soil and water supply in an early civ because of the extra milkweed you need to grow. You need iron for bucks, and you're certainly not going to have enough rope for buckets if you're still using stone hoes. If you dont have a deep well by the time people are composting, unless you live in a field of ponds there will not be enough water to do anything, and even then probably not because one firing of a newcomen will use a whole pond up(you dont have any iron though so what am I saying). If you are composting and still using stone hoes, RIP, you'll need to make 3 of them at a time, and all that milkweed will use a whole pile of compost, if you do two bowls per milkweed, and use potentially use up an entire stone hoe planting all of that milkweed.
So what do I do if the runserver.bat isnt working. What links do I need to do manually?
Gabby wrote:I've been Eve-chaining in Server 9 for the last day, learning some recipes and experimenting with stuff that would be considered a "waste of resources" by experienced players. It was nice. I'll be sad to see this possibility go.
Run a private local server and you can experiment to your heart's content. If you're using Windows, it's easy!
Download the win_full package
Unzip it
Go to the "server" folder, right-click on "runServer.bat" and choose "Run as administrator"
In the game client, connect to 'localhost'
That's all there is to it!
In the settings folder under the server folder, there are a bunch of configuration files that you can edit to control things like whether or not you randomly spawn, whether you always spawn in the same place, where exactly you spawn, etc. By default I believe you will always spawn in the same location, but if not you can edit the value in forceEveLocation.ini . You can also give yourself an extended lifespan by editing lifespanMultiplier.ini and/or epochSeconds.ini which might suit your purposes even better than Eve-chaining.
Thanks to Awbz for building and packaging the server for Windows.
Hey so ive tried doing this with multiple different versions of the full download and on all of them, nothing happens after running runserver.bat, and if I just run the server exe, it says its waiting for a connection on port 8005 and then when I connect with the client the server crashes. What do lol?
There is lots of talk about small food updates, people want a specific food or crop, but I hear few compelling reasons for why to actually add those foods aside from variety. This game will go very badly if things are just tacked on, so every new technology or product will need a reason beyond itself for inclusion.
BIG YUM ENERGY
With the way yum works, few people use it, but with the large number of possible foods it is very unbalanced for those who seek out yum, which isnt terrible, not everything needs to not be magic, and there is an argument for a balanced diet, but if you hit 20+ yum its kinda crazy, as eating a balanced diet irl does not let you go days without food with no ill effects. Adding in more foods with the way crops are grown now adds to this, so if we are to add in new foods, they should require considerable labor or resources and technologies to produce. I propose there be a difference between the berries from domestic and wild bushes, like carrots, and that all raw domestic foods provide no yum. Only prepared foods will and they will provide varying yum based on the difficulty to produce. A food's yum will depend on how many food groups it includes. Items with only one ingredient type (bread, bowl of bean or berries) will only provide one and can only push you up to 5 yum, foods providing two yum can only take you to ten (single ingredient pies and whatnot) and ones containing many groups will provide 3+ and take you further(up to maybe a cap?). That would not include say berry carrot pies, you need a meat in there. Another system could be similar, but the groupings would just be decided based on the difficulty of producing the food. Eating a basic domestic food should kill your yum bonus as well. It could even keep track of which ingredients you have already eaten in your chain, and subtract a point or two leaving at worst one yum if you have already eaten all those ingredients in other foods. Sugar from honey should be the "ultimate" yum adding many points to the foods it can be added to. Maybe there could even be a penalty for too high of a yum. Dental caries, or cavities are far more common in developed countries with a sweet tooth. Hitting a really high yum could increase your hunger rate to offset how unbalanced yum gets at a high level.
Domestication, the flowers and the bees, nightshades, container growing
Because its a game, with limited time, lots of abstractions must be made, so it is fair for at least some crops to be domesticated the way they are currently, you just get a seed from a wild plant and there is your domestic crop. The problem with adding in more crops is that only the food and harvests are different, but getting the first plant is essentially the same. I propose we bring some sex to the game and talk about flowering plants and bees. Jason started down the path with seed stratification and roses, getting multiple unique domestics from one wild plant, but we can take it further by adding a flowering cycle to a some plants before they fruit, and require pollination for them to bear fruit. Right now I see two plant families that would be great for this mechanic: brassicas and nightshades. Tomatoes, eggplants, chilies, potatoes are all nightshades, and while none of these plants were domesticated from an original plant, but instead were domesticated from plants that had already long ago split off from each other. Since we are in the spirit of abstraction, we can just pretend they were all domesticated from a single species(and ignore potatoes). There would be say three different wild nightshade plants, which would each bear one or two berries that are inedible and can be planted. At the same time, there would be wild beehives, which would send out one or two bee's at a time to a fixed distance in search of flowering plants. The initial three nightshades would look basically the same, and would after fully growing go into a flowering cycle, and if a pollinator comes to it during the flowering cycle, it will bear fruit, and if not go back to the pre flowering cycle and wait again for the next time. These plants would produce no food, perhaps again just one or two berry like fruits. After fruiting, there should be a fixed chance that the plant would need to be fed again like a berry bush before resetting its cycle, and dying if not cared for in time. The next tier would be to grow the plant in a clay container, which could say be made of three clay, and be reusable if the plant dies. These would bear an additional fruit, but would now be annuals and need replanting after harvest and also would be necessary to further domesticate the plant. Now, the next technology would be to make a brush, which should require an iron for the brush, and potentially more for the brush making tools(this could be used also for say brushes for painting on signs instead of having to handmake letters). You would need to do a hand pollination of each of the three plants to the two other plants so, A + B, B + C, A + C, and after one of these pollination occur, the plant will produce different seeds that would lead to the next three plants, basic tomato, basic eggplant and basic chili. These also would only be able to be grown in the container and would also require pollination. Note, hand pollination would be the only one that would produce new plants, insect pollination would just let it go to the fruiting stage but those fruits seeds would still make the same plant. Back pollinating these with two of the original plants will further stratify into two kinds, for tomatoes say cherry ones with many little fruit, and larger ones with just a few per plant, two kinds of chilies and two kinds of eggplants. The final tier of these plants would come much later in the tech tree, and im still fleshing out the idea, but they would be vining ones which require lots of infrastructure such as trellises and would grow over more than one tile(same mechanic could work for grapes too one day), and would be very labor intensive if grown in soil(requiring multiple bowls of water and soil per growth cycle, but would (now this is where we get into fantasy land) if grown say aquapoinically, require little labor at the cost of infrastructure. This would be done through clonal propagation by cutting the plant with shears, and maybe some other step requiring tools before planting the cutting.
Aquaponics
Aquaponics would be a huge endeavor, I envision each container being outfitted with a valve(could be the same one used for oil wells), and would be able to connect to two copper pipes, for input and output. You would dig special pits, that would join together if adjacent, for the pond, and would have to seal it with plaster for each hole. An intake pipe would be put in one tile, and an effluent pipe would be put on another, so at minimum a pond would require two holes. These pipes would be like floors so items could still be set atop them between the rows. A pump would be crafted from from some of the diesel engine parts, along with a rubber diaphragm, and added to a diesel engine. Somewhere in the system, two cisterns each with a valve would also need to be attached, one to the output line and one to the input, with the output one being filled with regular water. A bucket(or multiple) of water, and one fish would be placed in each empty pond, or just one and the others could populate from the one. A cycle would go something like this after the system is built, fish are in ponds, and plants are planted in each container. A worm would be fed into each pond, which would change the pond to a smelly pond (ammonia). The diesel pump would activate(or need to be activated, maybe upgrade able to auto action with computers one day), and would pump a buckets worth of water into the system, watering 10 of the plants, and turning the pond back into its normal state. This would have a 10% chance of draining one unit from the water cistern, equivalent to one bowl of water per cycle, to account for evapotranspiration. If there are not enough plots that need water when the cycle is run, the excess will go into the other cistern, and will immediately go to the plants when others become available for watering(cistern mechanic would need to be changed since they deal in buckets of water not bowls). Each plant will need a unit(or more) of water for each stage of the growth cycle (vining plants will require per tile of the vine per stage of growth, but would only use one container). Each time the pond is returned to normal, there will be a chance(im thinking 25%) that it will transition to a pond with fish and eggs, at which point the adult fish could be fished out, and after some time, would mature back to the original pond. Non flowering plants could also be grown with say the exception of wheat and berries because, yeah, and would function the same, Carrots could now all be plucked save for one for seed, since there is no more tilling. There additionally should be a chance for the pump to break on each cycle, requiring a pump repair kit (rubber diaphraghm + crankshaft or whatever).
The worms and the Bees
Worms lovely worms, no organic farm or aquaponics system would be complete without them. Its a shame that they were once a part of compost and are now just fish bait, but this is the dawn of vermiculture! A special worm box would be constructed, and filled with worm bedding and a worm. Worm bedding is made with shredded paper(shears + paper, or even shears + stack of papers), a bowl of mashed berry and carrot and a bowl of water and would produce three units like a pile of soil. One unit of bedding and 1 worm would after some time turn into a box of vermicompost, from which one basket of soil(enough to replenish one bush, and one row of carrots and part of a wheat) and one bowl of worms can be grabbed. Im thinking 6 worms in a bowl and they can be pulled out or put in one by one as well.
Beekeeping is an ancient tradition, and without effective pollination a number of crops are economically infeasible. But glorious honey and beeswax await. Natural beehives will spawn rarely in green biomes, which can be poked with a skewer to produce a honey stick , giving one serving of many pips(10?). This will anger the hive though and send a swarm at the attacking player for one minute(im thinking effects similar to yellow fever), up to a certain distance from the hive and then despawning, and only targeting that player(griefers are real so), so you better be quick if you have a sweet tooth. This will leave a damaged hive which will be repaired after some long period of time and will spawn subsequent swarms at players who get within say 3 tiles of the hive (but still target locked) while it is damaged. At camp, construct a smoker by hammering a hot iron bar into a charcoal canister(would be at the end of all the other iron items) and attaching this to a bellows, add one unit of charcoal and hit it with your fire stick and then you will have 5 minutes to bring it to the hive. You will also need a net hat (tied skewer + wooden disk > wooden ring + wooden disk and big ball of yarn + wooden ring +knitting needles gives net hat). Wearing the net hat will prevent bees from attacking you, other players in range of aggro hive will still be attacked though. Take this and the lit smoker to the hive, which will produce one incapacitated hive. Grab the hive and leave the smoker(or put in pack), hive cannot be put in containers except plate and go fast, as hive will die after (3?) minutes. At camp, hive + plate will give hive on plate and using a knife will produce a carved hive. Grabbing at this will give you a queen bee which must be placed into a Bee box. This is made with two boards and a rope. The box will require four frames which can each be made by adding a short staff to boards and then adding a rope. Put the four in after the queen and the finally the top (and you will have the base hive. The hive will send out bees to flowering plants in range, I feel that one hive should be sufficient for say 20(or less everything is up for debate) plants. Each time a bee visits a flowering plant, there will be a 20% chance for one of the frames to be filled, and when all are full you will have an oozing hive at which point the frames can be removed. Domestic bees will not attack players, except when you go to remove the frames, which will require your trusty net hat and smoker. Incapacitate the hive, and then remove the frames one at a time, put on a plate, and then cut with a knife to yield empty frames and plates of honeycomb. Add the four plates to a crock, put one on top and add a stone to press it. This will yield one bowl of honey and three bowls of beeswax. Honey must be collected before a hive will resume pollinating. Return the frames and put the lid back on and the cycle resumes. One hive is not enough though, so you can add tiers to the hive allowing it to send out one more swarm of bees to pollinate at a time. Only the frames in the top hive are accessible but adding the second and third tiers will allow it to collect honey faster and expand the range. A bowl of honey would need to be added to a glass jar, and to be eaten as a basic food a honey spoon would also need to be made. A bottle of honey would have many many servings, and provide only one pip, but a whopping 3 yum, and will become an ingredient in future baked goods(which would also have that big yum energy. Beeswax would potentially have many uses, but the one I propose is the hour candle, which would be a flame source that stays lit for 60 minutes. Put all three bowls of wax back in the crock and put on a fire, to produce melted wax. Use three glass jars to remove wax, and add a rope to each before they cool, if they cool before adding, holding jar of wax to fire will remelt. Empty jars can be reused but candles have 1/3 chance of breaking on candle burning out.
So I know this is a lot, would not come at once if not ever, but if we want food updates, they need to be part of a larger system of foods with interwoven dependencies, that utilize the new technology we have been given. Maybe Jason already has all kinds of plans that make this irrelevant, but we should really be talking about this kind of stuff. What would you want in a food overhaul? Do you like this plan or do you see a totally different direction? Parts of this could be applied to other techs and even farming, pumps bringing water to a cisterns at your baking and smithing stations, irrigation in a wheat field leaving a hardend row after harvest instead, or even put it in a berry field. We need a food update to end food updates, or a series of them and then leave it there save for future balancing as the game develops further.
If we do any food updates, Id like higher tech tier foods with say, a large variety of low pip foods for yum chaining. Maybe rice one day,but I think gunpowder or silk would be better for an "asian update". The problem is, in real life there are a lot of good ways to do a lot of the same things(like produce food), and with a game like this, its better to have more tiers of things than many essentially equal paths, until later in the development when he can go back in and add in those extra paths. This is a big part(at least I think so) of why Jason doesnt let us do things like make ropes from fleece, it makes milkweed completely obsolete, and unbalances all the technologies that are dependent on rope. Its hard to balance the resource dependencies, when there is only one path up the tree, but even worse when there are multiple independent paths that can lead to the same end product. Rice is a staple food like wheat, and would need to be able to replace it in the right circumstances. This is hard because compost would need to be completely reworked, which would change a civs iron usage so iron would need to be re-balanced and so forth. I read an analogy about the tech tree that I personally would like to see one day, Right now its a tree with branches, but instead it could be like multiple parallel vines that branch into each other at various spots, its just such a big workup, so thats why my vote is on new tech vs more food. On the other hand though, rice could maybe be woven in as part of the fuel cycle. We could use the rice hulls to make charcoal and woodgas in a pyrolosys rig, and have woodgas powered planes and cars, there is no point now while oil is infinite, but he could change that and I see one day either Jason adding in (or someone else making a fork
) for aquaponics, and rice + fish aquaculture would make for a great starting path on that kind of tech tree. This still is a compelling argument though for waiting on rice since something like that would be such a big change to the game.
Also, I dont know any stats about it, but this is the video of it being completed https://www.twitch.tv/videos/379920308
The current apocalypse is not at the end of the tech tree. Not even close.
Okay that is true, I should be more specific. The tech level needed for the apocalypse leaves at minimum 24 hours to get to the rest of the tech tree. It only takes a couple gens at worst from the time the first knife is made to build an airplane if the people in that village want to do that. Jason has been busy with other stuff, but im sure that he will update the apocalypse in some time to require more advanced tech.
Also, since the apocalypse is something that Jason wants to be at the end of the tech tree, once it gets larger, that will mean more time to keep a line alive, so who knows, maybe the tree will get deep enough that it will without outside coordination require more than a hundred generations to get through the whole tree, which is good for RPers, its good for long liners and its good for tech nuts.