a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Honestly i agree. My main point is that there are healthier options so players have the best of both worlds and the original towns are not lost.
Running away from a big town and usurping its spawns is selfish. Most of these towns took an incredible amount of hard work and cooperation to get to where they are now. Throwing that all away because you think its boring is no excuse. Its just as easy to build an eve settlement close enough to the city that you get the experience you want and you can let your kids know where the original city is if they want the city life.
So why do people go so far away from towns? I presume they either dont know any better or its due to some personal glory. "I founded this town" kinda thing. In reality you are spitting in the face of your eve and the countless people who came after her who built the original town into what it is.
A healthier way to do this would be to found a town 100-300 tiles away on a fresh well site. Its close enough that your kids could travel back and forth without the risk of wandering their whole life. Like i mentioned though i suspect most people want to build "their" town from scratch.
I also think its funny when the pseudos take a horse cart, shovel, and axe with them. That initial rush to craft the base materials for smithing and rush those tools is the fun part of the eve experience imo.
So to all current and future pseudos out there. Dont expect future generations to stick around. If people are aware that the camp is a pseudo they will likely spend most of their life trying to find their way back to the original settlement. Most of the time finding it or the remnants of another one and moving the family there. Abandoning your settlement for a better future for them and their children.
Often i end up in pseudos in terrible spots as well. Places where there are no tarry spots or iron veins for hundreds of tiles.
Long story short, there are healthy ways to pseudo and toxic ways to pseudo. I notice more of the latter on average. Instead of abandoning the city countless people worked hard on why not expand the empire with your new settlement. Make sure its reasonable to eventually connect the towns and that future generations know which direction to travel.
Im a broken record at this point but ive made so many bells and started so many tower bases only to have them lost due to this sort of thing.
Yea, i notice this a lot. It can be quite infuriating. Ive started half a dozen bell towers and they have all been lost due to this kinda thing. I find a lot of the time pseudo eves run away from town to start a new settlement leaving the town to rot. Its harmless if it isnt too far away but often they take tools from the town and a horse cart and travel way to far to feasibly find your way back.
I was born into the booker fam in one of these psedo eve settlements. I was so confused at what had happened and the family was almost killed off due to the weak state of the camp. Luckily i found my way back to a sister settlement but never found the original mega city the eve likely founded. Its sad seeing countless hours of hard work lost due to people doing this.
Sigmen rubber will decay so you need new rubber to keep tire art /tire horse cart
Also Newcomen will need rubber replacements or something like that
He WILL change that with the update
Not looking forward to this, in addition to everything else. Will likely take a break for a while until refinements are done.
I think being able to pick up and drop things in any biome is an easy preventative for potential griefing. Griefers already hide things in jungles and i imagine this will become a huge issue. Another big issue could be griefers filling all the buckets with latex with no ability to process it. Honestly this update is only going to make griefing easier and the game more painful for anyone who actually wants to play normally.
This is more likely to turn into "give me all your rare resources and ill give you my knife in your belly"
I guess its time to dust off the old pirate hat.
All i can see this doing is artificially killing off civilizations. Only jungle civs can make rubber now and they also cant tap oil?! Snow civs are basically useless. Desert civs have a huge advantage being able to make horse carts and mine oil.
Beyond the racist undertones this poses an incredible amount of mechanical issues to the game as well.
Like pein mentioned people dont trade, ive never seen anyone trade in this game. I have seen people raid and steal a lot though. I have no doubt that's what this will turn into.
Currently towns are too far spread to trade or steal even if they wanted to. So it will likely turn into a bunch nomadic fams following the fault lines using and running out of water as they go. Towns like that wont motivate anyone to put effort into building them up.
I found a big issue with the rift was people would give up on building or progressing a town because they knew it would be wiped away in a few days. This would pose the same issue. Why put in any effort into a town when your family is just going to move on when they run out of water.
Sustainable towns will become incredibly rare and the experience of the game will be even more narrowed than it was before. Tool slots were already a huge wrench in the machine, if this gets implemented i imagine it would be an even bigger one.
Instead of slowing down progression with updates like this please consider advancing the tech tree so we have more to build towards. Hitting those advancement benchmarks is extremely satisfying. Please add more elements to strive for instead of making current benchmarks more annoying and tedious to complete.
Yea i think the distance measurements need adjustments. It makes no sense for it to take 10 years to run a kilometer or two. It would make more sense if it was multiplied by 1000. I would have traveled 1500 km instead of a little over one.
Sorry i quoted the wrong peep, I switched it around so its proper now.
OHOL players in the rift: WE WANT FREEDOM
OHOL players w/ freedom: WE WANT THE RIFT
Its a minority who want the rift. Most of the statements ive seen being pro rift have had more to do with elements of the game that are weaker without it. I think the increased player base since it went away speaks for itself. Ive seen more effort put into towns and cooperation since it went away.
This game was not built to be a griefing sim. As it stands griefing is the easiest and cheapest way to play this game. I find that most people who grief are either frustrated with the game or dont appreciate the work of others. Violence in this game only gets in the way of progress.
I personally dont find being chased for 20 min with a knife fun. Most skilled griefers dont kill but instead sabotage elements of the town and watch it crumble around them. Its beyond annoying. I dont enjoy spending my entire life countering a griefer instead of progressing the town. This kind of adversity is toxic and contradicts the MO of this game. Its a small person who enjoys playing that way.
Every new empire begins with the age of the pioneers, courageous individuals with passion and vision who conquer new territories
I think you're a bit confused here. Empires have never begun with pioneers. In fact there have been many cultures and empires destroyed by pioneers. History does not remember them well and there are resentments persisting to this day because of their actions. Visionaries on the other hand, sure. Through military strategy and persuasion they united territories. Alexander the great or Qin Shi Huang for example.
I think an easy way to fix this issue is to make the eve spiral tighter. So we are forced to deal with each other. As our territories expands we run into other families and unique interactions can be made. Perhaps this overlap will cause more scarcity and force players to war over resources and territories. Maybe a family is forced to venture into the unknown to build a new home to escape the chaos.
I traveled 1.5k yesterday to find another civilization. It took over half my life. I think we can all agree this is too far of a spread if unique interactions are going to take place.
But yeah survival is for sure too easy at the moment. The only reason families end typically is because of griefing. You can often see at the end of a family tree that the last few children were killed by a relative.
I was about to mention something about your fam. Even though survival is much easier now, families are still incredibly vulnerable. Especially when the player population drops. Seemed like all the longest running lineages this week died out around the same time. Likely by the same hand.
If one person wants to kill off a family they dont have to put in much effort. With the rift when a family died off it would bolster the remaining family's spawns and make it more difficult to kill them off. Right now i feel like every family runs a little thin and it leaves them all vulnerable. Im pretty bummed that so many awesome towns have been lost because of this vulnerability.
I think an easy fix for this would be to ratio the amount of families to the player population. So if the population drops and a family dies out it would bolster the others instead of opening up new eve spawns. The populations of families have been so low that i have yet to spawn as a male the past few days, making exploring for other families a liability. Ive only had one male baby as well.
In terms of danger and excitement factors i think this could be mended by making the eve spiral tighter. So families have a higher chance of running into each other.
In terms of navigation i think if we can set up a bell tower it would work essentially like the rift borders, perhaps even better. Working like a compass and would make finding lost cities and towns much easier. Ive tried getting a bell tower going several times in several towns the last few days but it seems the families died out before they could be completed. Ill keep at it though.
Smith > farmer > baker
Each of theses jobs feed into each other and if any one of them fails the others atrophy into not being able to be done. Without a smith you cant maintain a farm. Without a farmer you cant bake. Without a baker sheep and wheat cycling has no pressure.
If bakers focus on compost management as well as baking the whole situation gets a lot more stable. The tech tree is also built for that to be efficient.
I find one of the most important things in this game is to give what you take. You use a bunch of iron, find more. You set up a mine, make a bucket instead of taking one. You use a ton of wheat, plant more and make soil for it.
Towns are quite fragile and deficits can destroy them. That's why its important to try to maintain a surplus whenever possible.
Would be cool if milkweed didnt need water or used less soil. It is a weed after all.
That is how it works though. The higher your score the slower your food bar shrinks with age. You can maintain quite a few pips in your bar by sixty if your score is high enough.
Jason made a response about signs a while back, i wish i could find it so i could quote it.
His main concern from what i remember was having signs everywhere cluttering the map. This doesnt seem as much of an issue since the rift has been removed imo.
Another concern was that signs could be used to write profanity. Also that players have no choice but to look at the sign compared to notes.
Its the players choice to read notes and if they contain profanity they are easily erased or can be hidden. With signs they can be locked and they are blatantly in your face with their message.
Signs are a hard thing to regulate so i think that's why the difficulty in making them is there.
I do think they could be a highly effective tool and should be easier to make but im not sure how profanity and misuse could be managed. Maybe instead of a lock you could instead have a timer on it. So once the timer runs out it can be edited.
Perhaps you could only lock it after 5 min without any edits. You could hit it with a round stone to lock it and after a certain number minutes it unlocks. That way people could edit and remove profanity easily and manage the signs without much trouble.
I like the idea of having an unlimited source for making letters much like fences. The decay and editing timers on fences do a good job and deterring abuse imo.
Let me know if you have any ideas on how signs could be managed if abuse is at play.
Good stuff. Sorry my post was hard to quote. I tend to ramble and forget to put in breaks, ill do my best to do that in the future.
I think for the most part i was confused on what you meant. I by no means think the genetic score system is perfect. I quite like what you are proposing. Especially the less babies for lower scores. Thanks for clarifying.
Since the beginning of human kind its been up to the parent to choose their child's name. If the child doesnt like it too bad. I personally have a middle name i hate and a last name that was made fun of all my childhood irl. But do i blame my parents? No, it had significance to them and a heritage behind choosing it.
The concept that naming someone something could be "griefing" is literally the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Its a game and names are only a small part of it. Unless im cursing i barely even pay attention to names. I often forget my own name because it has little purpose beyond being a catalog. We could be given random numbers and what would that even change in function? Nothing.
Sure, it adds to the roleplaying elements but thats pretty much it. Limiting player choice because it "bothers" someone without an actual functional reason is silly. Honestly super long names bother me more since it limits cursing until a late age. If someone named me something silly at birth i would likely just lol and forget about it in five minutes.
Limiting others freedom of expression because it "bothers" you isnt a good enough reason imo. I personally use unconventional names that are adjectives that should not have a gender but i guess they do.
I like the idea of being able to change your name at a certain age. I hate restricting player choice. This game is about creating a civilization and its up to the parents of that civilization to define it.
If someone wants to break gender norms and name you something the opposite gender would normally be named thats up to them. I rarely saw that anyway and personally run into the annoyance of gender restricted names more often.
Refrigerator mechanism would be cool. I got into ark big time back in the day and rushing to the refrigerator was huge.
House wise though, i would want a general storage space in the main area. Depending on heat dynamics either a hearth area in that main storage area or in a close by room, whichever was more efficient. Then i would want a workshop, likely a forge. A small kitchen, with a refrigerator if that got implemented.
I think cribs could be a really cool mechanic. Could provide additional insulation for babies, so that would be near the hearth wherever that may be. Then a fenced yard to store materials and tools that are actively used.
This is all presuming personally property, inheritance, and capitalism is given to opportunity to not be toxic. Otherwise it would be borderline hoarding and if anyone left the house they would likely be stabbed.
Personally i like the communist anarchy we have going, its much like the incas back in the day with an even looser social structure. We dont have monarchies or government entities regulating food or resources and its built on the trust system, which i find really beautiful. Especially since its the most efficient system as of now.
It would be cool to have different societal structures be given an opportunity to shine without being a liability though. As it stands unregulated communism is the most stable. Inequality kills and disables people from contributing to society as it stands. Not sure how this would be stabilized but it would be nice to have societal structure vary depending on what people want. There could be revolutions to reformat society which could make for an interesting dynamic.
I agree wb steve is very entertaining but comparing him to twisted is silly to me. They are so different. When i first started playing watching twisted helped me learn so much. I could learn a lot without the risk of being slow or a liability in game. He's a great educator and presents a lot of information in his videos. He also highlights the changes and progress of the development of this game better than anyone imo.
I really like the idea of increasing or decreasing spawn rates dependent on score. I dont think that high score players should have an advantage on lower score players though.
Are you proposing that the top 25% exclusively spawn to each other? It shouldnt be easy to keep a high score and in fact i think it should get harder and harder the closer you get to the top.
I understand the increments get smaller and smaller as your score gets higher but if the top genetically fit players are always together, isnt that just going to make things super easy and lock out the rest from spawning reliable kids? If they are truly the most highly skilled mothers it shouldn't be an issue to manage new players.
I understand not wanting players who abuse the system or will tear down your score. So perhaps there is some kind of grace period. New players with under 20-30 hours and a low score would spawn to the most highly scored mothers available, but not the other way around. Perhaps after that grace period its just random.
I really dont like the idea of making it harder for lower score players to raise their score and making it easier for higher score players to gain and keep theirs. I think keeping the pros with the pros and the riff-raff with the riff-raff could do that.
One of my favorite things about this game is that you can start with nothing but ambition and perseverance and create a better life for yourself and your family. I think genetic scores should reflect that. I also dont like the idea of segregation. Separating the new and bad players from the pros just seems silly.
You would have these insane power house towns (which honestly would be glorious) but then you would have these ramshackle towns with a bunch of new/bad players struggling on the opposite magnitude. It would likely be filled with noobs and griefers and would likely make the game even more abrasive for struggling new players.
Maybe im not fully grasping the concept of what you are presenting so if im way of base let me know. Love the idea of having spawns affected by score though. I think new players really struggle with babies and often let them die or kill themselves trying to manage them. Would be great to see something like this implemented.
I was thinking something along the lines of breaking out various aspects of play - i.e., things that satisfy different 'itches' on the gamer psychology side - and making them individual gene scores. Like so:
1) Longevity gene - personal (+ ancestors) age of death, weighted by family distance over 3-5 generations
2) Family gene - current meme score but only based on descendants/cousins, weighted by family distance
3) Altruism gene - survival of nearby peaceful non-family, like 2 but for all others 'nearby'
4) Capability gene - crafting done, influenced by number of different activities tried and objects produced
5) Fitness gene - Yum and eating habits score, higher scores from more Yum/food variety. Berrimunchers tank here.
6) Socialization gene - social interaction system score (i.e., weighted good/bad votes you've received from other players). More on SIS later.
7) Violence gene - kills + deaths ... maybe inverted? more violence = lower score? Or could just be used as a negative factor, there are bad genes...
8) Exploration gene - tiles seen, maybe bonuses for meeting new families and learning language?Different gene scores could influence different gameplay aspects - Fitness could extend life (like current genetic fitness), while Capability could influence tool slots (or other skill-limiting mechanic). Or multiple genes could be used as determiners, like the mean of Longevity/Family/Capability could be used to determine Eve status.
The reason I think a system like this would help is that different types of gamers want different things from the game (any game). This helps to give all of them things to do. Achievers can point to their ability to survive, raise a family, or whatever they want to achieve (though it might be hard to get high scores in all areas). Explorers can literally get rewarded for exploring the map, or the tech tree. Socializers get rewards for being social (although doing a few other things than chatting would help, too). Killers get to at least point to one thing they do well, I guess? I only adopt that play style in games where it's appropriate, and it's not often appropriate in OHOL.
Ok I LOVE this. It would be quite hard to implement but i think you highlight one of the major issues ive been having with genetic score. It is only influenced by one corner of the ohol experience. Being a good spawner is important and keeping your family alive is also but it is only one aspect of the total.
There are so many important things at play that keep a civilization going. Sometimes you're in situations where overpopulation could kill the town and you have to regulate how many babies get produced. Sometimes these sacrifices are necessary for the betterment of future generations instead of simply supporting the immediate.
If you and your children sit around eating, having babies, and not doing anything for three generations your score will go up. I think that is a bit counter intuitive given one of the main purposes of this game is to build a civilization and work together for a better tomorrow.
At any rate i love the idea of having more qualifiers that capture the full spectrum of what keeps a civilization and family thriving. Also love the idea of having spawns being in ratio to genetic fitness.
fug wrote:Ever since the arc was created it has NEVER been beneficial for you to fight with other families as you set the rift closer to resetting which then wipes out anything you were fighting over in the first place. Donkeys don't get private towns just for being assholes it isn't supposed to be some sort of reward where you grief and get your own personal village on the main server.
Yes i agree, thats why i am proposing to make it so normal players can also join the hell cell if they want, so its not a private town for griefers or a reward.
Inside of it curses should be disabled. Oil and water would run out quickly and people would probably fight each other a lot.
People who like this kind of playstyle could play inside it on purpose and would not borther people that want to play outside in peace.
This is a really cool idea. I like it.
How about making nameless eves unable to give birth? It would give them some time to find a good spot for a town before breeding. I think current birth distribution system will make that all babies will spawn to new Eve until she has enough kids, that may make things complicated if an Eve hasn't even found a good spot to live yet.
That's the beauty of an eve run though. I love getting a squad going and hunting down a good spot. Sometimes spending my whole life finding one. Most kids wont be up for it but the ones that are are bad ass. This was one of my favorite things when the server glitched out forever ago.
You couldnt build anything because it would reset quickly. It basically turned into a family adventure where the goal was to stick together, explore, and keep each other safe. It felt so cool to be a roaming pack of nomads with no where to go but forward.
Normally this would be really hard but the server glitch allowed for infinite food, so you could feed an entire family off one wild berry bush. Its how i fell in love with exploring and eve runs.
I had like 20 hours at the time and its what really hooked me into the game. Over 700 hours later and here i am, still thirsty for adventure. So excited for the infinite map to return!
The more I think about it, the more I realize that all problems can be solved by making more things edible.
Infinite leaves are a problem? Solution - make trees edible.
Griefers keep eating your favorite axe? Solution - make griefers edible.
Don't like being trapped in a small box with ravenous cannibals? Solution - make the Rift edible.There is no problem so big it can't be eaten.
I dont think ive ever laughed so hard at a forum post. Thank you, Lol
Fingers crossed for locust sim 2020
What if genetic fitness was similar to an ELO where if a player with a much lower genetic fitness than you dies, then it doesn't effect your genetic fitness as much.
This would certainly help with climbing the ladder but i would worry it would encourage players to not take new players seriously. Once you get the new player notification you would know that even if they died it wouldnt hurt your score as much.
Anything that makes things harder for new players and makes the game less accessible is only going to hurt player retention.
I think new players with experienced mothers could be a good mechanism and perhaps you get a bonus if your offspring exceed their average lifespan. If a player's average lifespan is 10 min and you help them reach 30 min that is progress and i think progress should be rewarded.
If a player's average is 50 min that's kind of guarentee that you will get more points. I dont think we should ride on others coattails and i think there should be more reward for bolstering others who are struggling.
Alternative idea: we all devolve into crude giraffe people who stand around eating leaves.
Could be a cool spin off game. Imagine a world with 20x the amount of predators all tracking you while you and your family of giraffes try to stick together and keep your family going.
Oh and maybe the predators and giraffes are all different players. So you could spawn in as a predator sometimes and prey other times.
Ive thought about stone walls needing a decay function as well. Would be nice to see something like 10 hours they become ancient and unbreakable another 10 hours they become decrepit and need repair.
Perhaps decrepit walls never decay but they can be removed or repaired. This would give players the ability to edit builds and fix mistakes while still having ancient ruins.
I loved finding ruined cities before the rift. Would hate to loose that aesthetic but being able to reuse the stone and edit things around would be great. Would deter permanent hoarding or walling off vital resources as well.