a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Lol. Love this.
I have thought that horses, dogs, wolves, and bears should have been edible for a long time. Yes im a monster but if i was starving and it was life or death i wouldnt hesitate to eat a horse or dog.
What heals tragedy is time. Joking about it and trying to dilute it isnt going to do anything. The scars from history last a long time and take a while to fade. Trying to normalizing it is a distasteful and naive effort.
Toxolotl, I agree about improving society, but to what end?
If you build a great house for your grandkids, but they all die of starvation before they even get to live in it, what's the point? Where's the legacy?
The only "end" there's ever been has been the next generation. We don't know why we keep doing this, and it doesn't really make sense, but it's all we've got, so we keep doing it.
In real life, people build up society for one other reason that doesn't directly benefit their offspring: to bolster their reputation and thus attract high quality mates. Skyscrapers, fast cars, symphonies, mathematical proofs, and even funny jokes..... all the crazy stuff that men (generally) do to differentiate themselves from the pack.
And yes, this aspect is definitely not represented directly in OHOL, but in the bigger picture, "attracting high quality mates" is the same thing as "high quality offspring."
So, yeah, offspring. Full stop.
Yea i agree. I dont think it should ever matter more than your children. If you spend your life working and let all your kids die you should be docked but maybe not as much as you would if you let all your kids die, didnt do anything beneficial or griefed with bears and etc.
Grouping them would also guarentee that new players would hardly ever get to be eve or be born to eves. In the early days of playing eve runs and early settlements were what really got me intune with the fabric of the game.
Big towns can be really overwhelming and for fresh eyes it can be hard to see how everything interlocks. At least that was the case for me. I think diversity of lives is an essential part of this game and i would hate to see more options removed due to genetic score.
Or maybe do the opposite - the highest genetic fitness players should get all the new players.
Those players are the most capable at keeping people alive and able to handle the responsibility of caring for our game's true children .. the noobs.
I like this idea
Did someone say "players with the worst scores get born to players with the best, and vice versa"? Lol. My main point was that i think being productive and beneficial to society should count for something.
Sometimes you have to choose between work and children and with the current system its going to always be children. In real life working hard and building a legacy is something you can pass onto your family. I dont think it should count for much but it would be nice if it counted for something.
In theory you could have something like letting bears loose docks your score where as killing them adds to it. If you hunt down a bunch of bears (letting them out and hunting them) you could see gains. Like 1 part negative points for letting them out and 2 parts positive for hunting them.
A system like this could benefit workhorse moms and deter griefing even more. I think pro moms who truly deserve to be eve could easily manage babies and work and would see a boost from both ends.
Good to hear, just learned about the sid baby thing. Very pleased about that.
Also how can i be triggered when im posting dick butts XD
Very logical, my mistake. Social justice has been around forever. Sure SJW is a new term but that doesnt mean the concept hasnt existed for a long time. Social justice warrior is a term for someone who fights for social justice. You keep bringing up all this social commentary and ideology and someone might be mistake you for one as well. ![]()
What has any SJW brought in to this world? Silenced opressed majority that is boiling inside provoking the next race war?
Dealing with tough issues by making fun of it is best way to deal with it.
You ever heard of the civil rights movement or women suffrage? I personally would consider that bringing something to the table...
You seem equally triggered by others being offended by a symbol. I agree society shouldnt be filtered or oppressed in their expression but CatX's referenced post makes a strong point. I recommend letting your personal offense go, bring up your valid point about the cultural aspects of symbols and freedom of expression and leave it at that. Attacking others for their beliefs and belittling them is just as distasteful as what you are offended by. Some might even call it a pathetic cry for attention...
Toxolotl, the maths behind genetic scores changed:
I know it has changed. It's not as easy to spike or drop but it still needs some refinement in terms of consistency. Since the change i havent spiked or dropped in score like i had but i also havent changed much in score at all.
It still feels quite flip floppy to me. With the old system i had gone from 700th place to 1st in about a day. Was i trying to improve my score then, no, i was building roads and dumping my kids back at town when i had them (Sorry kids).
New system seems a lot more stable in those regards but it still seems quite luck driven. I dont think /die babies should count against the moms score at all or any death out of their control or influence.
Yea i think structures need a massive buff. I really miss perfect temp and making buildings efficient at creating near perfect temp would be great. Could encourage more building which I'm all for.
Big buildings housing a bakery or smith could be really cool. An emphasis on the structure and layout of a town is something i feel has been missing from the game. Beyond keeping raiders out there is little purpose to walls.
Another odd thing that has been bugging me for quite a while is that diagonal walls are highly inefficient. I know the gap mechanism is essential for sheep pens and such but being fixed to square builds really limits creativity. Ive thought about just planting trees on the inside to save on stone but that leaves it vulnerable to griefers and with the current water situation it would likely be a waste of resources.
Diagonal roads were huge and saved on so much potentially wasted material. Would be nice to see walls given the same opportunity. If pens were not completely reliant on the gap mechanism i feel like this fix would be easy but since its so essential i have no clue how it could be a possibility. Any ideas?
It would be nice to null a curse if you have already cursed that person. I have cursed the same person several times within hours of running into them and just wasted tokens doing so.
Asphalt should be a byproduct of oil refining. Instead of getting a tank of kerosene and an empty tank we could get a tank of kerosene and a tank of asphalt. And then one tank of asphalt makes ten tiles of road, or something like that.
I really like this idea. Maybe a bit more of a speed boost over stone roads. Perhaps they decay as well if people dont tred upon them for 24 hours. Since asphalt is quite soft, to make up for that speed boost. Cool idea, i think something similar has been mentioned before. A good way to encourage road building.
Roads are quite easy to make. Flat stones are quite plentiful if you know where to look. With a rubber tire horse cart its easy to make a long highway chain in one lifetime. It will be even easier once the rift is removed.
I find removing the tiles more of a pain. There are plenty of people who are too lazy to cut down a tree or shovel a stump or wild plant to make clean roads. Cleaning up roadways like that takes a massive toll on a pick axe. Not to mention my ocd.. uh i mean... any attempt at reformatting them.
Would be nice to see a pick axe be able to remove 50+ tiles instead of 15 or so. If anything it would be nicer to see cobbled stone be extended for floors and walls since it is far more expensive to produce, especially since tool slots have been introduced. They are harder to transport and take three different tools to produce, where as flat rock you just pick up.
I love all of this except eve runs being dependent on genetic score. Genetic score counts for almost nothing and relies on having competent players as kids.
You can spend almost all your life with a new player, teaching and taking care of them but leave them for a few minutes and they die, bringing down your score. Dump a few veteran players at age three and suddenly your score goes up considerably. It's pure luck.
Refinements need to be made to genetic score evaluations before it influences any more aspects of the game. Tools slots are enough of a hindrance already. Limiting players is only going to make the experience more mundane. Either make genetic score easier and more reliable to grow or make it influenced by other factors like societal progress.
If you make a huge difference for a town or family that should count for something. It would motivate players to not just simply sit around having babies but to make strides in providing for society as well. Perhaps food and resource processing could count towards your score. Individual score would count the most and perhaps a fraction of it would be influenced by what your children and grandchildren provide.
I dont understand how your mother dying can bring down your score and the fact that anyone who dies after you die counts against your score. How could you even influence something like that? Long story short it needs to be refined before it influences any more aspects of the game, as it stands its quite broken.
Coconut Fruit wrote:When I want to use a chisel for example, there is no way I would walk around the town and ask someone to use it for me.
If the game was different you would go to the builder shop and buy the cut stones.
So how do we go from a bunch of idiots running around to an organized society with shops, police, restaurants etc?
Simple answer: The player base has to want to do those things.
Personally i prefer this communist anarchy we have going. Its far more efficient and it is actually quite organized.
It should be the player base's choice to play how they want to. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to make capitalism more desirable without forcing people into a play style. In my experience most people who have attempted capitalism in game do not cultivate external resources but instead steal from their town and hoard items. I have yet to encounter a non toxic form of capitalism in game. Measures should be taken to encourage more diversity in play styles without disabling people from choice. The human element of this game is what makes it interesting. Restricting freedom and forcing players into a format is only going to make things more predictable and boring. Another main issue is for capitalism to thrive there really needs to be a common currency. Since the closest thing we can get to that is the barter system the backbone of any attempt at capitalism is going to be weak. I think a cool common currency could be tool slots. If you could trade tool slots that could create a really interesting dynamic. Personally i would rather see the tool system scrapped because i think it restricts too much freedom but it could be an interesting alternative.
This forum post was made to discuss the tool system and player's opinions and experiences with it. If you want to discuss something not pertaining to tools slots and your experiences with them i suggest you make a new post on whatever subject you wish to discuss. Thanks.
Dodge, it seems like you would like this game to turn into something completely different than it already is. Instead of complaining about other people's opinions, changing the subject, and stirring up pointless arguments you could try respectfully swaying people to your point of view instead. Just a thought.
This is just a game built to be entertaining. If people have differing opinions that is good. Resistance makes us stronger. If changes effect the degree to which people find enjoyment out of the game it is important those things are addressed.
Dodge i would love to hear your positive experiences with this new update.
Building an engine takes a significant amount of time and i don't think its unreasonable that a person could build one within their life time. What is kind of silly is that the process might take considerably longer with cooperation since the update.
Plenty of people dedicate a large portion of their lives to a craft but find passion in something else and change professions. Being able to change your mind or redirect your life is an important part of the human experience.
Like i mentioned in my previous post i think there are healthier ways to promote cooperation and communication in game. Between the language update and what DestinyCall has mentioned communication is difficult and can be a liability in many situations. It would be nice to see more updates that encourage communication and cooperation without making things more frustrating than they have to be.
OR change the pace of the game then...
Also "artificial" tool limits, can you really learn to be smith, sheppard, tailor, baker, engineer, farmer, builder etc in a single life IRL?
What's really artificial is being able to learn an infinite number of things in a single life, having one person that has 20 jobs is the real artificial thing.
It's not unreasonable for someone to have twenty jobs within sixty years. Especially if they dedicate years of their lives to each one. What is kinda unreasonable is only being able to learn how to use six to eight tools within sixty years. I personally like the pace of the game, it's exciting. The real issue i find is we reach the progression ceiling very quickly. Instead of trying to stagnate that process wouldn't it be far more interesting to extend the length of that progression?
I agree Mirelli. One of the beauties of this game was the only limit was our understanding. Putting chains on something like that seem fruitless to me. I understand its in an attempt to create more cooperation but as a result is creates blunt operant conditioning and restricts the ability of players to achieve their goals. There are healthier methods of encouraging cooperation without cutting off a players leg so they are forced to lean on another.
I agree tremendously. The eve experience has degraded bit by bit for a while now. Once the highlight of the game it has eroded to the point of barely mattering. For a while the momentum of an eve run could make or break a town or bloodline. One of my favorite things about this game was hunting down a viable spot and forging the foundation for future generations. At first i wanted to see my bloodline succeed but grew tired of petty things like that and only care about making the region a powerhouse no matter who is there. Its a beautiful thing to see your influence effect future generations and how it carves a mark on society. These are the reasons i continue to play this game. How i fell in love with eve running goes back to when the server glitched out (everything you built would despawn within five to ten minutes and food was unlimited). What might appear as a hellscape to some was a beautiful opportunity for me. I was still pretty new to the game at the time and it gave me the space and leniency to explore and discover uncharted environments and resources i had never witnessed before. It gave me an understanding of the different biomes and a thirst to explore i had never experience before. The result of this glitch was a rag tag family adventuring through the wastes discovering unknown lands and banding together against any environment. We stuck together conversing and sharing our knowledge and perspective while maintaining a nomadic and perilous existence. We traveled kilometers together, exploring and discovering uncharted lands. I miss these elements of the game more than anything. I used to take pride in the fact i could hunt down a city within half a kilometer in any direction. I dont know how many ghost towns i found back in the day but it felt so good to stumble upon them, no matter how simple. Long story short the old eve runs were something to behold and lately its felt like they have been stripped of their glory. It took skill to build a civilization and it took skill to hunt one down, now it only feels like luck and all ability to make a difference is consumed by this stupid tool slot bs. If effort was put forth to create the same exigency for middle to late game as apposed to subduing early game this game would be charged to a completely different magnitude. Probably one of the most unique and amazing games ive ever played and honestly glory to you Jason. The criticisms come from a place of love, at least from me. You created probably one of the most unique concepts for a game with endless potential. Never give up on it.
In terms of the cold residence. From what i understand alcohol thins the blood and allows your circulatory system to still function under extreme temperatures. You also loose heat faster while its in you system but that's why the saint bernards were trained to cover you to increase your body temperature. Normal body temp of a dog is 101-102 F.
That's good to hear. My concerns lie more with that overlap and our ability to fill a void if needs must. If your baker is old and there isnt another to fill that void it fall upon another player to teach someone (usurping their tasks) and spend essential time simply doing that without the ability to show what needs to be done. I dont like the restriction and i would prefer a mechanic that promotes inclusivity and learning as opposed to something that exiles a player from completing a task.
One of my favorite things about this game was its lack of limitations. We built our skills and knowledge off of experience. Over time we grew to the ability to conquer any task set before us. It felt great. With this new system ive felt nothing but trapped within it. I loved being an overseer of whatever village and having the ability to swoop in and stabilize the situation no matter what was happening. With this new tool update that feels impossible. Ive had a hard time playing since these updates. I want to teach others but sometimes needs overseed wants. Limiting players and forcing them into boxes only creates a frustrating experience imo. I want to hear your pros and cons within this new update and how they have effected your game play. I personally dont play this game to exclusively smith, farm, built or etc. I want to do it all if its necessary and filling that void feels good. I dont understand why the restriction of those things is a good thing. Let me know how you feel and how these updates have effected you.
When i run as a baby its because i want to /die out of the way so my mom doesnt have to deal with my bones. Teasing the mom and making them chase you is another matter all together. When i see a baby run i let them.
Yea i agree. No one really knows what will work or what wont until its tested. Antagonizing each other isnt going to get us anywhere.