a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Cars and planes do have lots of potential, and the fact that they are not yet feasible reflects their prototype nature. These cars are still crude cars, after all. I'm guessing that Jason has some plan to turn both of these into beneficial investments for towns after an upgrade or two. Nevertheless, some issues such as the fuel consumption based upon time and the easily-griefed nature of both vehicles limit their use even with upgrades.
But also, even buffed, there is little reason for a city to invest in a plane. To have gotten to that tech level you will have needed one of each race in your town regardless, and even if you need a new seal for your pump after all your rubber-farmers died, it would be easier to seed a town than trade with it. Radios allow people to signal ahead in theory, but the massive amount of time required to make one and the fact you don't know who you're talking to makes this almost impossible. The main use for planes or cars would be as migration vessels: to take the people from one town and move them to the next. Or perhaps even as tourist-vehicles? If that proves to be the case, extra player-carrying capacity might be the most useful thing to upgrade a car or a plane with. An upgraded car that could seat two or three people would be very useful for ferrying people about. Similarly, big planes could be used for entire town migrations, allowing a high-tech civ to keep moving west as their resources ran out.
Specialization has definitely made crafting of both Airplanes and Cars a chore; but families living with each other is still not entirely necessary for planes/cars to continue to operate. Their main requirement is the rubber for the four wheels, and then the kerosene to maintain their operation. Additional rubber for operating the Pumpjacks in the winter biomes, too.
This is an entirely separate discussion, though, as Jason would have to tackle that on its own rather than do both Cars/Airplanes AND the Biome specialties at the same time. I still fervently disagree with the method he carried it out, as he is essentially forcing families to be next to one another and to spur on the constant multi-racial megatowns. Imo, he should have made the resources easier or more plentiful for the specific races, rather than completely locking off that content to other tribes.
What if working in a Specialty biome required 5 Tool slots, for example?
Again, digressing from the purpose of this post.
Honestly I think there should be an instant-transport option at some point in the tech tree, probably not super deep into it. Think about how long it takes to traverse 1km, even with a fast vehicle it's well over a "year". Who the hell takes a year to make it through 1km of wilderness? 1 game second should be plenty to traverse anything less than 100km -on foot- if your character is assumed to be hustling, given that a game second is a bit less than a week. So IMO it seems extremely reasonable to have some mid-tier tech like a "caravan depot" which connects to other caravan depots and instant transports you as hungry work. Maybe you can link a "brochure" to a caravan depot and you have to walk it/drive it to other caravan depots in order to connect them?
But yeah 8 slots even seems on the low end for how much of a bother it is to build a car. Two people with horse drawn carts sounds 10x more desirable, all things considered, aside from the fact that you need two people but how long does it take to recruit someone compared to building a car? If we could add a massive trailer to the car to hold many more things then maybe it starts to make sense, but I guess the whole tile-to-tile interaction limitation puts a damper on that.
We have instant transport with the Airplane, and doing this costs 1 pip of a Kerosene tank. 2 if you assume round-trip expense. It's also weird to judge the costs of a tank of Kerosene. Since each pip is worth 7 Buckets of Water, flight has to be very efficient for it to be worth sacrificing that many buckets of plant growth. It's really only feasible for what I would consider "Tier 5" Towns; towns that have become so wealthy and powerful that they possess aircraft that can be used to farm long-distance oil, and where The tanks of Kerosene are as plentiful as Steel.
For comparison, the current Bell town that has been active these last few days I would consider Tier 3, and is constantly teetering on the edge of collapse due to griefing.
Strong objection.
I've seen it all.
Idiots standing around as a griefer slowly murders people one by one.
Idiots standing around as a griefer, revenge-stabbed, gets healed, while the avenger gets stabbed themselves and dies.
An entire town forming a posse to run a thousand tiles to chase down a griefer stealing the town's Kerosene supplies.
An entire town watching as the town Doc patches up a victim, before all of them (~12) stab the attempted griefer and watch them bleed out.
An entire town devolving into chaos because inter-family grief causes a back-and-forth stabfest, until both sides die out.
Murder is a necessary part of the OHOL experience. Not having it would be a severe detriment to, yes, the storylines, even if you want to joke that they aren't relevant. Knowing that people can, at any time, try to kill each other, but willingly choose not to, is a gameplay element in and of itself.
Cars and Airplanes are a very interesting, but difficult, part of the game to balance. In this thread I will argue for a modular upgrade to both, and an upgrade to the Airplanes’ landing strips, while highlighting the potential griefing that this could, but isn’t guaranteed, to include.
In theory, cars and airplanes are supposed to provide even better forms of transport to conventional vehicles.
In practice, they are considered a massive burden to the town, because the moment they are made, they will almost inevitably be stolen and vanish from the town either due to griefing or newbies dying with it out in the wilderness.
Oil and Kerosene used to be unlimited from Pumpjacks, but this is no longer the case, making them expensive to operate.
Race specialty biomes further constricted Pumpjacks’ operations and construction.
Tire Carts/Horsecarts were buffed from 6 -> 8 slots of storage, while both Car/Airplane still have 4
In my previous buff request, I proposed Rail Tracks be 1:12 Steel-to-tracks, which eventually became 1:8, and they have seen consistent use to this day, albeit still for specific purposes.
It is my opinion that Cars and Airplanes should receive an expansion to their carrying capacity, much like the Tire Carts/Horsecarts. The Crude Car should have 8 large slots and 3 minutes operation time, while the Airplane should have 6 large Slots. This would differentiate the two even further to their specific uses.
In addition, I think the following changes should also be considered:
The Car should have an option to be upgraded using a new item, “Treaded Tires”, which would be standard tires given another layer of rubber, Lathe’d into treads, and then cooked in the oven.
The upgrade gives the car 10 storage slots, 400% Movement speed, and maybe 4m operation time.
The Airplane’s landing strip should be able to become permanent through constant use;
If an airplane lands on a landing strip, it becomes: “Landing Strip - successfully used”.
It will still decay in two hours.
If an airplane lands on the same strip again, it becomes "Landing Strip - established route" and no longer decays.
Villages rarely opt to use, or even have, excess adobe spent towards a second set of kilns to specifically do Newcomen work. More often than not a secondary kiln site is placed, also outside, and specifically for firing clay bowls/plates to keep the "main" smithy focused on metals.
I wouldn't say that it's been explored, really. Since smithing iron is pretty adjacent to then dumping on the Newcomen parts, more often than not I'll see the smithy being stuffed on the east side with a box or two for storing the newcomen metals, or otherwise a bunch of spread out baskets (usually the latter). Would two sites both focused on steel, that are indoors, be able to work? Ehh, maybe, I guess in your case it has.
However, springy doors are non-negotiable. They are necessary for slowing down griefing, and automating the pathing in/out of the nursery and central rooms. If those rooms have permanently-open doors, you're losing out on a lot of potential food savings, and opening up your village to getting doorlock'd.
Post the image to Imgur, and then link it here using [ url ] the url [/ url ]
Could we maybe get...a different SFX from *DING* regarding Hierarchies?
Anyway, just having kids shouldn't get you a follower. That would make every grandmother a Countess automatically.
You should directly inherit your mother's leader. Her Baron becomes your Baron, etc. And once you're old enough to speak, you can peel off and pick your own leader or become a loner.
I know people would go nuts with this, and try to become king by getting Dukes to follow them, and there would be lots of drama around it. I'm just struggling to understand how any of it would be real.... well, maybe no more real than such things are in real life. The army only listens to the king because they listen to the king....
An alternative to having anything pop up could be the text boxes? Someone more important to you vs. a complete stranger could have completely different-sized text, or even the color/boldness of the font.
A "peasant" hearing the words of the king would take priority layering over others' text?
Oh, okay, obviously above King should be Emperor...
Should there be hierarchies right away in the game?
What if Hierarchies could only be formed once someone wears a crown? From there, then people could only follow others who are following someone else, and so on...
That would maybe help to keep the flow of the game "Tribal" in the early sequence, and slowly transforms into "monarchic" in the sense that has been discussed in this Topic so far.
It would also maybe justify more game-associated features being implemented in association with the hierarchy.
Edit: Maybe this could make it so that the three different types of crowns had a kind of purpose/use if they were actually worn by a "True" king?
Welp, looks like this post finally got redeemed!
hey guys, i'm returning. i'm probably not gonna join the discord for awhile until i become comfortable in the game. i'm going to be more focused on ohol. it looks like there's been a lot of changes. i like the temperature animations, and i'm excited to grow grapes and become a pisshead. btw, i'm sorry to the people who i owe an apology to.
- xoxo w0wma
p.s stone hoes are still the superior hoe.
Welcome back! Boy did you miss out on the latest two megatowns!
Maybe you'll get to join in for the third, when that eventually forms?
pein wrote:it's a meme, right now skewers the best
nah man, WEAK skewers are clearly the best option here.
I can't believe none of you are using Domestic skewers.
You put whipped cream on the pumpkin pie. And I think the bread/butter combo is supposed to represent stuffing.
I also feels it's a bit wrong, but for different reasons. I might be missing something, but it seems that a feast is worth less pips than its ingredients combined, even when you take out the flat food bonus out of equation. I know that the main benefit of the feast is supposed to be overflow, but it still feels a bit weird.
I made a thread a few days ago almost immediately after the recipe for it went up. Since that thread's mostly dead, I'll just transfer the numbers over here.
Ignoring the +2 bonus (which is currently +4 for EZ mode), both the Feast Table and its components are the same 320 Food Pips. I assume this is 100% intentional.
At +2 bonus, the Table is 336 Pips, and the ingredients would produce 368 Pips.
At +4 Bonus, the Table is 352 Pips, and the ingredients would produce 416 Pips.
1) This assumes that we are not adding bonus pips to Whipped Cream or Butter, since they are toppings for Sliced Bread
2) This assumes that both Whipped Cream and Butter are both made into Butter, and used on bread slices - even though additional bread is needed for one of the two.
3) If we removed Whipped Cream from the Pips value for parity of only using the ingredients presented, and nothing extra, the ingredients would be 336 at +2, and 384 at +4.
tl;dr you are partially correct, the Ingredient Pips == Feast Table Pips, but Ingredients are better purely because of the +2/+4 Food bonus.
The game's direction is going west, and slightly south.
Ultimately every person wants to experience "The City Life". It's the closest the game gets to separating the player from the constant Food-and-Water grind, because the Bell Tower towns tend to have a supply of Kerosene if they managed to invest the 25h required to build all the layers + 2 Gold for the bell.
The Hub (current Belltown) Was and is just that. It had a general farm area plotted, surprisingly-good sheep pens (using Trellis'es since they can never decay or be removed), was in proximity to multiple deserted towns that could be re-inhabited, and had tons of natural resources.
Within a 700-block radius, there were 4 Tarry Spots that could be tapped for Oil. So far, only 2 of them are fully exhausted.
If you ever wanted to learn a new skill, experience a different trade, you can do that without a lot of headache and asking "Where's the food"? Because there's dozens of plates and dozens of bowls to supply grain, flour, pies, turkeys, mutton, pumpkin, you name it.
That's honestly the other best aspect of a Bell Town. They are generally 'lax enough that you can do activities you normally can't in an Eve camp or even a Tier 1 or Tier 2 village.
So, the numbers are out for the Feast Table. My initial response is fairly luke-warm about it, and the equivalent value of food pips of the individual items vs. the combined.
Ignoring the +2 bonus (which is currently +4 for EZ mode), both the Feast Table and its components are the same 320 Food Pips. I assume this is 100% intentional.
At +2 bonus, the Table is 336 Pips, and the ingredients would produce 368 Pips.
At +4 Bonus, the Table is 352 Pips, and the ingredients would produce 416 Pips.
1) This assumes that we are not adding bonus pips to Whipped Cream or Butter, since they are toppings for Sliced Bread
2) This assumes that both Whipped Cream and Butter are both made into Butter, and used on bread slices - even though additional bread is needed for one of the two.
3) If we removed Whipped Cream from the Pips value for parity of only using the ingredients presented, and nothing extra, the ingredients would be 336 at +2, and 384 at +4.
In addition to the table existing, if a Griefer is alive while it's created, and are young/old, there is a high likelihood they might try to grab a plate and eat it, effectively burning all of the extra Pips that the +40 would provide. Lots of risk with the table being there for the first 8 people that eat from it.
Do I like it? Hell yeah. But as a hard food pragmatist, the time investment on setting up the table & assembling the ingredients isn't valued, except for the compact nature of the Food Pips provided. I would plead in the case of the Food bonus that the Feast Table should maybe give a bit more food for the effort + losing out on the bonus pips.
I would also argue for the Feast Plate being unable to be picked up until Age 13+, to prevent young spoilage of the Pips.
Got another email about griefing today.
The guy was trying to save his town from a lone griefer, but he couldn't convince the noob players in town to team up with him and help.
1-v-1, stopping a griefer is still pretty hard. You run slower when you chase them alone.
Sure, they run slower too when chasing you, making you as an expert player relatively safe. But they can still pick off noob players who don't know to run when they hear murder mouth coming.
So in the email, this lone griefer hung out outside of town and picked off unsuspecting noobs relentlessly, along with stealing stuff, etc.
As I've said, killing is a necessary ingredient in this game... otherwise, how would you dispatch such a griefer, even with majority consent?
But one person unilaterally picking off unsuspecting people is not the reason killing is in the game. It's an abuse of a necessary power.
Assuming that such griefers are in the extreme minority, it would seem like a hard limit on killing, per player, might help. Maybe even one kill per life. Maybe after doing it, your character just can't bear to do it again, which makes some sense thematically.
And if a town faces a few griefers, they need a few good men to dispatch them, a different posse leader for each case. The guy who handled the last one is on break.
The other idea is to make unilateral killing completely impossible. Maybe you need a posse of 2+ to do it.
This would undercut gate-guarding, though.
In fact, even a killing limit would undercut a gate-guarding career somewhat.
In general, I want to leave some kind of unilateral killing in the game to permit lone players to stake claims and make threats. You know, "Get away from here, I've got a bead on you with my bow, don't come near."
If there was a limit of one kill per life, the lone player would only be able to fend off a single invader...
I hate griefing as much as the next person, but you've said so yourself that murderers/griefers have a role to play in the game like everyone else.
If combat restrictions were to start being placed, such as the 1-Kill or the 2-Posse, I think that would give further incentive to players or "gate guards" to be equipped with those Batons I mentioned a little while ago. Non-lethal methods having less of a restriction on how much they can be used.
It would be another tool the griefer/murderer could use, sure, in whatever odd circumstance they're able to get hold of one while stuck in the murder-state of killing another player. But from most scenarios, if 2 players are prepared to murder an entire village down, then the Baton wouldn't alter that scenario one bit.
Yeah it'll likely be wine and feasts this update since he talked about feasts before and that was the whole reason for allowing upwards of 99 stored pips via overeating.
Was hoping for more alcohols at once but you get what you get
Well, no point wining over spilled grapes.
DiscardedSlinky wrote:As long as you don't have a home marker set it will set your home marker to the bell tower.
So literally everyone in the game has access to the bells. This forum post is useless.
Thought only mod users have access to the bells. Yes this topic is useless then, sry
Tho maybe vanilla users should have better access to bell towers... It's hard for them to go anywhere without making a home marker.
Agreed. Belltowers not giving the proper direction ping is a bug that should be address, at minimum regular Joe Schmoe's should 100% of the time receive the coordinates and visual direction (The arrow and amount to travel).
There's a very intricate and delicate history between Map coords, Belltowers, and relative coords.
Back in the olden days, long before Rift (Dec 2018) Griefers were tearing the map a new one. Because there was no /Die or life restrictions, griefers would cycle themselves until they became Eve, pulled the map coordinates from Birth (Yes, the client would give the player their position on the map), travel to the nearest existing town, and then proceed to grief the shit out of everyone and everything.
In addition, other players would actively use that in order to try and keep certain towns/cities alive persistently, or stash resources/griefing "kits" at specific coords on the map that they'd be able to find in the future.
TL;DR Giving players their precise coordinates on the infinite map made things a PITA for everyone the moments it got abused positively/negatively. Jason agreed with that stance and properly removed the ability for players to pull from the client where they were at in the map.
Shortly after this change, locating each other became a massive chore, and no one had a "point of origin" to work with anymore.
BUT, we got very lucky. Whatever's Hetuw mod was still being actively expanded, and I tossed out the idea "Hey, what if we made Belltowers the new points of origin?"
And so, Hetuw started logging the relative coordinates of Belltowers from your birthspawn, along with a myriad of other coord customization features to aid what I consider the true "Cartographers".
Maps didn't exist yet, so Hetuw was the tool to use to figure out where shit was in the world. The problem with this is that, without a Belltower, you had no idea where you were at and had to rely on pure travel to "map out" the territories.
Of course, that wasn't too huge a hassle; once a town had the tech available for Horses, you'd just get one, saddle up, and ride off into the sunset until you found landmarks/other civilizations and could plot the two villages on X and Y.
You also have to keep in mind, a new problem emerges the moment that there isn't a Single belltower on the map. If you're a fresh-spawn and a bell rings, and two exist, how do you know which is which?
You don't.
However, if both are rung, you can plot the distance between the two to re-verify. Triangulation, essentially. But if only one is rung, or worse, if the old one is never rung and only the new one is rung, people may end up going to the new Belltower instead of going to what they thought was the more-ancient Belltower.
In the grand scheme of things, Belltower coordinate gameplay is valid gameplay in my opinion.
if it counts my average lifespan to calculate my gene score gain in my 2nd life I have to get less score, not more.
Yeah I thought this as well but someone clarified. The gene score isn't actually based off of Fitness anymore.
It's purely based off of your personal "Expected Lifetime". A completely separate number from personal fitness. It does that instead for every individual and then gives the points.
So the belltower is actually useful. So much for all the wannabe pro's talking shit about gold.
Ehhh people talk shit about gold because it usually gets turned into crowns, and that devolves into "Unga bunga me want crown" and then half the town's dead.
Royalty RP can be fun in trying to organize stuff and get people to do certain things for the town, until the "Unga bunga" happens, or an asshat controls the crown and pushes the 'tolerable' boundaries.
Edit: Just for reference, I've been on both sides of the crown; I once led a riot that toppled a very ass-hat'y "Monarch" that just yelled at people while riding a horse; other times I ran around the village, tending the fireplace, distributing clothes/foods, making sure things weren't breaking down.
Why would Jason care how much food is being wasted?
For the same reason Jason would care about knowing how many times someone fails to put a gooseberry into a basket. /s
Knowing food "wasted" is as relevant as knowing how many food pips each food gives.
If he saw thousands of uses of Popcorn, he'd think that it's being used to efficiently eat.
But, if he saw that 80%+ of the Popcorn's food pips were being wasted, for example, there might be something else going on.
tl;dr Almost all Data is valuable. Waste is one of them.
Site http://onehouronelife.com/foodStats.php doesn't see wasted food, it just see number of eaten foods and then does simple math to show how much pips are that foods worth.
Food is wasted every while by kids and elders.
That's odd....when looking at past week stats, it seems to suggest that there's food wastage, as the numbers included don't line up with the Food pips we've earned.
Keep in mind the past 7 days fully include the new "EZ Mode" change from +2 to +4.
I don't know why foodStats wouldn't at least care about that kind of data, seems very useful for Jason to watch how people are eating when it comes to proportion of the food wasted.
Is there an x and y coordinate mod?
Yes, Hetuw.
Keep in mind that coordinates of the map are intentionally obscured by Jason from life to life. You have no way, at birth, to know your coordinates relative to the map. Your only known coordinates are simply where you were born.
BUT.
Belltowers have the unique function of telling you their X and Y position from where you were born.
Ergo, when a Belltower is rung, everyone w/ Hetuw can see the coordinate position of where it is relative to their own villages.
The one constructed here is the first for the latest map reset, and post-Rift, so we can finally navigate to the various towns w/o just Maps.
This is very big for town growth and tech development.