a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
Any examples of people attacking Jason? I haven't seen any real attacks myself. Maybe they're emails, or in Steam?
Full on attacks, don't see those often, but in tongue and cheek quip, its easy to /smh at Jason on here or discord. The gaming industry as a whole has been fracturing over the past few years. Big developers make games and features that when gamers actually play/use, they are so dumbfounded by the lack of insight from the developer, that there is backlash. Its like watching someone who has never owned a car, try and design one and tell you its a ferrari. That knee jerk reaction to be rather candid with our expressions towards developers I think comes from there, which is also why Indie developers are on the rise.
Also it takes a lot more effort to break something down into focus points and talk about it, than it does to just say "This update sucks, Jason has lost his mind, this game is dead"
I direct you to the proliferation in our younger generations use of .... TLDR ..... Taking less than thirty seconds to read through a few paragraphs is a chore to unfortunately to a lot of people, and I doubt their ability to have construction discussions is quite low.
I didn't ask about how to make people care about projects in the game, or about their lives in general.
I said that baby lives are cheap, currently. Adult lives are not cheap, because it takes investment to get there. Very few people commit suicide at age... 39.... in the game.
I wish you felt a baby death that acutely too, somehow. How do people invest in being a baby? How do they earn it? How do they have a stake in it? Right now, it's as cheap as pressing a button, and it serves as a re-roll mechanic each time.
They still feel connected. If I don't care at a certain level of about the life in general, why suddenly care about the starting point? Since it is a game with its limits that have to work for a large group of players, if I die as a kid and I actually cared about being where I was, I can get back. It's really hard to have a system that doesn't trap players in lives they don't want to be a part of, that also can't be manipulated to serve the player. It cheapens the death/life of that child for sure, but it's also rare that when I spawn in and I see a town and my first feeling is "Oh My God! I really really want to play here!" Thats the trickle down effect of the sandcastle theory I posted above, which gives two angles of approach. On the baby side of things, the only thing I can think of is, that when you are born, until you come of age (12-14) the ban is in place. Forgetting to feed a baby in time, or having a loose bear take yours out, would carry more weight. Maybe you really needed that baby, you wanted it. Because you/they couldn't keep them alive till a teenager, even if they wanted to, they are not coming back. Keep failing at keeping babies well and you are directly threatening your towns existence because too many players will be blocked from the list.
Stopping people from playing is probably a bad idea.... but maybe there could be some bonus for playing the life you're handed. Like... a "super baby" token that you get once per hour, or something...
And yeah, Tarr, you must be right about me being dumb.
Absolutely a terrible idea if players cant choose if they want permadeath mode on or off basically. As to the token, the super baby, I am all for tokens, but I want to see them earned from other players. Part of the reason /bless has come up so many times in the past 6 months or so, is because people want ways to express gratitude. There is an overwhelming amount of negative ways to effect a player, but very few positive ones. At least ones that are built into the game, hard work, gifts roleplaying and just straight complementing someone is there, but there is no tool that YOU have given us to share positivity.
Just my two cents, but I have had this thought many times and now seems like a good time. It can be a struggle sometime to care about my life, and what I do in it, because of how quickly it all goes away. My hours invested throughout many towns in a day, are gone the next. I am not talking about whether or not I get to enjoy the fruits of my labor, its that nobody does. That bakery a stranger and I built together, gone. That jungle nursery I taught someone how to build, gone. That terrible looking berry patch, why fix it, it will be gone in a few hours unless someone rediscovers it and repopulates it.
It's like going from making a quick sandcastle to making a replica of the venice board walk. Both will eventually go away in time, but you don't put the time and care into making a beautiful sculpture right as the tide is coming, you build a shitty sandcastle you won't remember for months and years to come. Well after building shitty sandcastle after sand castle, I really don't care about them specifically as much anymore, still like making them, but it's not as special anymore. This is human nature.
I could totally see that as a secondary server, almost like a permadeath feature. I say shelf that idea, not trash can it.
Abundant resources on the map, but death carries a large penalty. You'd play there when bored or maybe your first game of the day.
It's also interesting that the "last fertile female" situation makes the problem even worse.
In the game as it stands, all mothers are equal, and they get weighted by YUM and warmth. But they are all in the pool of consideration for an incoming baby, as individual mothers.
Thus, a village with 5 fertile mothers has a 5x chance of having a baby compared to the village with only one mother left.
There's a kind of feast-or-famine dynamic here. As a family has more and more babies, they tend to have even more. As they have less and less babies, they tend to have even less.
This is probably correct, to treat mothers as individuals. An alternative would be to treat family lines as units, and give each family a weight, and then pick a destination family for a baby first (and pick a mother from that family second).
Eh you could make it slightly more likely to get a girl if you are one of the only fertile females left. Part of the need to sit around a fire and yum a bunch is to get enough kids to get past sids deaths and boy births. If you hit 35 and your sister dies without having kids, at least you could still work on stuff, hoping that 20% extra chance of getting a girl will carry you through.
I still think there should be fertility rituals lol.
Do a strange dance to pray for more babies!
Eat some weird foods!
Active things would be fun, I think.
EDIT: I guess contraception medicine would be interesting if you decided your town had too many babies and you really didn't want to deal with babies today.
Perhaps a totem that could be built that gives a small bonus to fertility aside from yum and warmth. Would give you something to do if there is just a bunch of males sitting around the last female at 37yrs old just waiting. You kind of work on stuff, but kind of don't, because the end is nigh unless a girl pops out and stays.
Perhaps look at how many of those babies played more than 2 lives in a sitting versus one to two lives per sitting. I think part of the idea about area bans killing towns is that players that are playing a lot in one go, don't end up back in the same places, and the lineage is left to casuals to keep it up. Even that logic is flawed though, as one powerplayer stops playing for the evening, there are two more that log on and start playing their sessions.
Psykout wrote:The only problem with burial bringing people back is how long it takes to be buried. You either have to arrange a funeral so you know you will be buried right away, or play the guessing game of did it happen yet before you choose to respawn. If it acted to shorten the ban timer, it would need to be from 1.5hrs to 1hr, otherwise people would feel inclined to suicide after thirty minutes somewhere else to get back as soon as possible. What if burying someone made the timer go from playtime to realtime? That could work nicely.
I used to call for ways to get back, but really it can do a lot of damage to people trying to make a town survive, because people are choosing to go back to one town. Often I ask myself, do I want to get back to keep at it, or just to see what happened.
What if when you are buried you can "ghost" your gravestone and see whats happening there, but not be able to be seen or interact with them. Last five graves can be ghosted too before it starts getting overridden
Oooh, ghosting would be great too! Especially if maybe you could just go back for like 15 min of real time or something...I also like the idea of being able to interact with items in a very small way as a ghost, like maybe you can wiggle them without being able to move them from their location, or make a basket or a bucket float for a second. Maybe animals could react to you or people could see you when they're high on shrooms...just to make it spooky.
I'm probably getting to far into this, but I think being a ghost for a bit would be a fun way to check on your town's progress without diverting human resources from other towns.
Yeah this is an easy concept to get too far into, which is why it would be cool to be able to levitate stuff and such, but little too much. Lot of the times I don't necessarily want to play a life there, just see how it shaped out. Same feeling as when I forget to take a picture of something I did, I die and realize and am sitting there say "Son of a.... god damnit"
I made an adobe grave shrine to my mother yesterday, an eve that found a terrible camp and tried to reboot it. When I knew it wasn't going to work I took down the adobe I was using to enlarge the pen to make the shrine. Got my nephew Eric to bury me, finding him when I was 59 and telling him it was time, and both of us heading over with a shovel and a flat rock was really fun and cute. Forgot to take a picture and man, I just want to be there just to see it and take a snap, and thats it. I was fine with my two lives in Bada the other day, I didn't want to play four lives to try and keep them going, I just wanted to see what happened a day after I died.
The only problem with burial bringing people back is how long it takes to be buried. You either have to arrange a funeral so you know you will be buried right away, or play the guessing game of did it happen yet before you choose to respawn. If it acted to shorten the ban timer, it would need to be from 1.5hrs to 1hr, otherwise people would feel inclined to suicide after thirty minutes somewhere else to get back as soon as possible. What if burying someone made the timer go from playtime to realtime? That could work nicely.
I used to call for ways to get back, but really it can do a lot of damage to people trying to make a town survive, because people are choosing to go back to one town. Often I ask myself, do I want to get back to keep at it, or just to see what happened.
What if when you are buried you can "ghost" your gravestone and see whats happening there, but not be able to be seen or interact with them. Last five graves can be ghosted too before it starts getting overridden
A larger town can support someone that is learning the game better, earlier camps need everyone to be working constantly. I learned by only playing eve camps, because I like to learn from the base up. Being able to live on my own to 60 gave me the confidence to be a part of a larger town without feeling like I was draining resources. Others do this the opposite, and want to learn when there is surplus around by being in later towns.
This really comes down to player preference though, I would say that its almost equal, those that like new camps vs advanced towns, and whether they are a new player or seasoned player, isn't a huge part of it.
And there's one person who SIDs 138 times, and ended up being Eve 76 times in one day.
That is a crazy statistic oh man, 76 times as eve, how long was their average eve play, 2 minutes? Don't know how the heck you fit that in there. Almost makes me think they were intentionally trying to /die before being picked up to grief mothers, but could be just a naive player that doesn't know about Eve chaining on low pop servers or something. Glad that you are seeing some of the stats on the popularity /die, and theorizing ways to smooth it out.
I would be wary of listing the name of the lineage as people have mentioned it could be used to target a lineage for positive or negative reasons, same for people being to force too many eves at one time. I think it would be better if it were either to select a generational preference and it randomly puts you in one, or you just see the lineage depth and select from there and one option for random with chance for eve. I wouldn't want to take away the randomness that exists, the mystery is always a good thing. Also to the ability to see how many active females in the lineage would be a double edged sword. If you go in depth to some lineages, often it is one single female that ends up keeping the lineage alive. There are plenty of players that would want to spawn into a lineage that has 0-1 fertile females to try and save them, as there are plenty that would never opt to be "Hope" in a family. Too much player choice there. I love that you are open to changing this though Jason, and the idea of generational preferences has come up before and it's nice to see you notice that and toy with the idea.
Final
Bada family tree Looks like I was gen 2... but got a little careless.
Ooh I love the way that tree looks, been wanting that kind of visual for ages for lineages, so much easier to see whats going on. Quite a few crazy branches on that one there, fun line to be a part of.
Thank you for making this effort. It's easy to just do what you want in a moment, without thought, because its easy to do so. It is very hard to start to climb out of the hole that logic has put you, but I assure you very rewarding. No matter what, I will still remember the time you wanted to abandon me just because I was a boy, because it taught me no matter what, someone can make a difference. That Demons line in a gathering of at least 10 said goodbye to their Nameless Uncle, when you didn't name me it no longer became important, that in every moment worked for the town and grew the grandest farm there could be, for the family. I am happy to have hope that you want to care past just making the name, to be a co-author in the early chapters, instead of the final chapters. If you can do it, don't follow my earlier advice and change your name and bury your past, but make the name of Toxic be a redemption story rather than a horror story.
If it was capped and reset after max, maybe eating same foods doesn't break it, but doesn't stack it either? As said, you can't eat if you have the bonus, so you would notice that when eating the same foods over you never start getting a bonus again. After X amount of time without eating a new yum food the chain also resets. Make the +bonus and the YUM/MEH graphic 10% larger or add some color to grab attention, and people would figure it out quicker.
That would also stop all the got dang baby shacking. I hate being shook, but if I need kids shake the baby I shall. Gotta eat the berry rabbit carrot pie as soon as I get one pip down!
EXACTLY that. Since the food bonus has to go down before you can eat again, in order to get a higher stack you feel compelled to eat with barely any pips down in order to get the fertility boost, or just a higher yum number.
Yes, there are some weird side-effects to the way it currently works (eating the same "food basket" in a different order, as you point out, results in different results).
However, I worry that any other implementation would be much harder for players to reason about. Yes, it is gamey.... but you pick up a food and see YUM or MEH, so it's pretty clear, and you get that nice little number. Also, building up a big chain is rewarding. When you walk by a cactus on happenstance, you're like SWEET, a cactus fruit! It maps closely enough to the attraction you'd have in real life to a food you haven't eaten in a long time. So there's a nice "jackpot" feeling there, when you see some interesting new food... it's close enough to the real feeling that it probably counts as real playing.
Completely right about that feeling when you see a cactus fruit, it feels nice because its a new food that you can yum off, but that breaks down immediately. The fact its an uncapped chain makes you look at foods either as awesome or worthless with no in between. Also it confines foods to only being balanced off of pips gained, rather than if it could be a extra yummy tasty food that took a lot to make. It's cheaper to just grow corn so people can get one yum from eating shucked corn than it is to make tacos or icecream. I feel like it would be a great addition to have foods be balanced around either being nutritious or yum filled, and would give you space for making complex foods that aren't dumpstered by the playerbase because its not cost effective from a pip stance.
Cap yum at 10
When reaching max of 10, next food eaten resets chain
Specialty foods give +2 yum
This is pretty rough with loopholes, and reasoning how raw and basic foods figure in I am not fully sure on so don't want to just throw out ideas. One ingredient pies I don't think should count, but rabbit+carrot or carrot+berry would. Something that makes us actively yum more, made it a more widespread and utilized mechanic. Every time you add a new food it makes an uncapped chain easier to do, to the point that you will eventually not need to eat for 1/3 of your life. By making it reset as part of the feature, you would want to pay attention to when you reset it and why. About to leave to find iron, get up to 8 yum and bring a couple snacks with to get to 10 while you are out. Leaving with max stacks could be sketchy if you are gone too long and need to break it in the wilds. That second banana might save you, or kill you in the long run, that sounds fun.
Also it wouldn't be as infuriating if someone accidentally or intentionally breaks your chain. Rather than ruining a lifetime of work, making you want or to actually murder the feeder (happened to me before), you'd just think "well I wasn't planning on doing that quite yet, dang it" It would pay off to have people actively making specialty foods for the town, you would be happy to see some tacos or burritos laying around to get a easier yum boost without overeating to get there. I hate wasting food to stack up a chain to increase my fertility, eating a raw or wild carrot with only two pips down just to see a little x13 on my screen. How much bonus food you get from the chain would most likely need to be reduced as it would be common to have a chain going, might be the best candidate to get rid of the server wide extra food value though.
It depends on the level that they are trying to grief. In my experience in this game because its near impossible without discord and forums to gain Notoriety, they get even worse with the "look at me" shit they pull. You are the best example of that with cursing streamers, which I personally, will probably never will forgive. It was absolutely disgusting behavior, and the fact you got enjoyment from bringing it up stains even deeper. If you truly feel like you can turn a new leaf, you have to personally atone for what message that sends to other people and wipe your slate clean with the only tool left, internet anonymity, because its way too soon for a lot of us.
If you're curious when the town split, my mom was the one who started the 2nd camp :
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4426209
Yay that was me! Glad to see its still going and people are getting to spawn in both camps, was my hope when I made it, to get the lineage a chance at lasting
Spoke too soon, they died out before the reset. What I wonder is if the lineage would have ended sooner without the branch off towns or not, or if it made no difference. Always thought that branching out helps protect against losing the lineage overnight or to griefers, and might allow people to have a second life in the lineage before the ban from first town wears off.
Since we shouldn't be relying on ponds long term can we look at a way to remove them for space?
Change them to wooden swords that stun the other person for a small duration. When used on another person they are dropped and can't be picked up by the same person for awhile, 30~1min+. It could be used to defend from attackers until they can be permanently dealt with, either by conventional means (bow or knife) or if 3-5 people also pick it up and attack the original target, they could starve the assailant through a combined coordinated effort. How long have we been asking for non lethal ways to use on others? A bit honestly. Can't recall a lot of requests for a weapon only meant to use on people outside of your lineage and town.
early horses seem to get lost all the time, if I plan on getting horses for a mid level camp that has food production going, I get anywhere from 2-4 just because I know they will get lost. Also in an eve camp early resources are really close, if a horse cart is a gift from god as an eve, you probably picked a pretty bad spot. I'd almost rather start with one single clay bowl so you can plant berries instantly upon settling, than a single horse cart that will be rode into the sunset by someone that doesn't know running over a snake will take it out.
Swords have been nerfed to have a 10 second cooldown (can't re-stab while the blade is still bloody).
You could nerf them to only being able to be used once per hour and we'd still have something to say. They feel out of place, and this idea that after the planet blows itself up that we'd be right back at it the second we leave the stone age, is really sad. The apocalypse makes sense because it takes coordination, intent, patience and dedication by a small group of people. Swords are just a toy for kids that get tired of their anthills and magnifying glasses.
Adding on to this after some thought. Paranoia of negative behavior feels like it has been on the rise. Twins/Trips/Quads are left to die 90% of the time. Loose knives are widely regarded as asking for trouble, making a bow is suspect. We start to trust each other less, and draw inward. We care less about our family, because of the high chance your bright faced new baby is going to put a knife between your ribs in the next ten to fifteen minutes. These things, these swords, is just gasoline on that fire, and it concerns me.
Seeing this addition, especially since it's for only outsiders, feels at the wrong time, not necessarily on its own a bad idea. I just wish we had something other than death/murder/language that convinced you to make villages close together. The water update could have been perfect for it.... Oil spots are also on a grid and VERY far apart, effort from multiple prospering towns would be needed to access it, but would supply enough oil for all of them for a good amount of time, until they all have to find the next spot to drill. To secure long lasting water source, you would need to travel neighboring towns, learn their language and convince them to join you and their other neighbors to get an oil well going at this spot kind close. Build a road between each other and the oil rig, share resources after the project is done, along those lines. It would definitely add the element of having a reason to need interaction between towns, because both of you have something you need, each other. I would rather spend time talking about positive links between towns than the possibility of negative ones.
What I wish is that things like trade and wars happened organically because the mechanics are diverse enough to allow us to build that up. Think of No Man's Sky, they didn't make a system to get players to make governments and a central system to congregate in and explore from, the players did it because it was plausible. This pressure to play the game in a way we are being told to, feels awful. Adding a weapon that can be used only on people outside of your family, making it so you can't understand someone outside of your family and making it so you can't curse someone outside your family is a hefty trifecta. It screams, do things the way I want you to, and it feels like its straying away from the original feeling of the game we have been playing for over a year or so. It would feel more palatable if we as players invested into this direction rather than it being shoved down our throats. At the minimum the language update should have been spaced out from swords by a few weeks at least.
Although I did really get a chuckle out of the thought that hearing a bell suddenly went from, ooh a town close enough that has been around long enough to build a bell is calling for others to join them and keep it going, to in one day to being.... 
Could we have a compromise with less permanent items like rabbits and ponds, with slight increase to expendables like burdock and milkweed?