a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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I do as you do. I ignore drama and try to stay away from people killing each other. I don't worry too much about griefing; I know it happens, but I just do my best to work around it.
Now and then I see someone who is definitely and obviously just flat-out murdering people, and in those cases I'll try to stop them.
In your very first picture ("floor alone barely add any heat") your two cases are actually the same. They both contain the same amount of flooring in the 8x8 grid around the player.
Whether the tile you're standing on is floored or not doesn't matter. What matters is the total amount of flooring in the 8x8 grid around where you are standing.
If you want to test the effect of flooring and compare like-for-like, try standing on an 8x8 section of flooring without walls, and then on an 8x8 section of empty tiles without walls.
Edit: Woops, where did yaira's new post with the new pictures go? That's what I was replying to, but now it's gone.
This discussion has gone straight into the crapper.
Carts are useful for that, and (like baskets and bowls) under-supplied.
But I had in a recent play an iron vein I made into a mine.. and got iron. And iron. And iron. Stack after stack, till there were 57 of them next to the mine. My question is now, is this normal?
Like many other items in the game, an iron mine has a "number of uses" parameter and a "chance to use" parameter. See https://onetech.info/944-Iron-Mine
Each time you pull an iron out of the mine, it has a 20% chance of using up one of the five uses. So on average, each "use" will give you five actual uses. The last use is special, though, and has a 100% chance to use. So on average you'll get five actual uses out of each of the first four "uses", and then the final "use" will give you just one actual use, for an average of 21 uses.
But if you get lucky, you could get a lot more, or a lot fewer if unlucky.
You got 57 that time because you got lucky.
When you go looking for iron, plan to collect ground iron. If you spot iron veins while you're doing so, use rocks and limestone to make giant lines pointing towards the veins. That will make it easier for you, or someone after you, to find the vein again when they come back later with a cart and the mine kit.
This seems like a much better idea. Much easier to understand, which in turn means it will feel much more "fair".
It also means that hot vs cold is really just a bit of chrome, a bit of visual flavor. Effectively, all biomes are now cold, but some are called hot, and when you enter them the temperature meter is flipped.
That's probably fine.
Edit: No, I'm wrong, at least somewhat, because fire in cold biomes is good but fire in hot biomes is bad.
I might be missing something here, but floors alone shouldn't reduce biome temp effects unless you're in an enclosed airspace. Maybe there's a bug in the code there.
Any 8x8 area counts as an "enclosed airspace" even without walls, because the simulation grid is only 8x8. The boundary is assumed to be open, which means the boundary insulation value is very low, but the floor still counts as boundary insulation as well which brings it back up to a low-but-still-useful value.
The code can't tell whether you're in the middle of a 15x15 floored room fully enclosed by walls or in the middle of a 15x15 floored platform with no walls at all. In both cases the insulation of your airspace will be:
( rAir * 92 + rFloor * 64 ) / (92+64)
And because the airspace is entirely floored, the biome temperature contribution will be reduced by the airspace's insulation value.
Floors alone won't reduce the biome temp if you're standing close enough to the edge of the flooring (two tiles east or south, or three tiles north or west) so that your grid extends out beyond the flooring.
... at least, that what I think the code says. I may be reading it wrong. I haven't tested any of this myself.
yaira: on your 28-tile example, you weren't standing close enough to the door for it to have any effect.
The 8x8 grid around you extends four tiles to the north and west, and three tiles to the south and east. The door was outside your grid, so it effectively didn't exist.
we also need ways to transport adult animals like a wagon.
The obvious play here is to make pigs loadable into airplanes.
For easy reference, here is the commit and the details of what was changed:
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … a0b898f7b8
Donkeytown threshold (which was fixed at a current curse score of 8 before) now goes down as a player's total curse score rises. Once they hit 25 total points, it goes down to 7. At 55, it goes down to 6. At 65 down to 4. And 75 down to 3. Note that there are only 27 people in the game with a total curse score of 55 or more. A very tiny sliver of the total player population. So, we now wait for the worst players to anger fewer people before sending them to Donkeytown. Fixes #204
Get well soon, Jason. All the best to your family.
I have the /die currently working any time within the first 2 years (will go live soon), whether held or not.
--It always results in a lineage ban
--If your mother ever held you, even one time, her birth cooldown is reset.
--If she never held you, her birth cooldown remains.
My gut tells me this will be a good system, but I guess we'll find out soon enough. Thanks for thinking about these kinds of things!
I would add one more thing: If you /die before, say, ten seconds then her birth cooldown is reset, even if she never held you. It's completely legitimate for a good mother who wants to keep her children to not have a chance to pick them up for five, even ten seconds, if she's in the middle of something critical. If the baby quits before then it shouldn't be a knock against her.
As for why I prevent players for disconnecting, and force them back into the same life.... How else would prisons be possible?
... and this, to you, is a good thing?
I've been getting my domestic life squared away, getting things cleaned and organized, knocking things off my to-do list, keeping the house up, making a large number of small improvements that are slowly but surely bringing order to the chaos - physical, mental, social, personal.
When I have some time to indulge in escapism, I play OHOL... because I can do the very same kinds of things, and succeed at it. It makes me feel like I can accomplish things, make improvements, tidy things up... and that feeling gives me a boost back in my real life, and helps me feel like I can accomplish things there, too.
When I don't play OHOL, I play Katamari Damacy for much the same feeling.
I haven't tested it, but based on the code and Jason's intentions, cold+insulation+clothes will always be better than hot+insulation, or hot+insulation+clothes.
Hot+insulation+clothes is now better than hot+insulation, because clothing no longer makes you hotter on hot biomes. It still makes you warmer on cold biomes, and it still provides protection from biome shock, so clothing really is an advantage on all biomes. That's new as of a couple days ago, though. When the temperature update first came out last week, clothing on hot biomes was a liability.
You could also tweak the biome temperatures, making grass/swamp/plains/rock a little warmer and jungle a little cooler. You could increase the hidden food bonus. There's plenty of little knobs you could nudge here or there. But as you say... should you?
Nerfing desert was good because it eliminated the monobiome meta and made clothing important. The nerf also removed a crutch... but the crutch wasn't necessarily bad and perhaps shouldn't have been removed without some further compensation.
The game difficulty was at a pretty good place with the easy-living desert. Early game was hard for newbies, late game was comfortable for newbies as long as there were a few pros to carry them. The pressure was low enough that players had opportunities to roleplay and to explore the tech tree. That's not the case now. The pressure is high. Newbies have a hard time surviving, and everyone has a hard time doing anything other than focusing on survival.
Is that the pressure level you want? Maybe. But the increased pressure has changed the game's aesthetic, and I don't know if you'll be able to appraise the change adequately by only looking at data. There's a subjective quality that you'll need to experience, and you'll need to hear other people's experiences of it as well.
stew wrote:You have to consider that a lot of oldagers die at something like 57, that will as starvation.
I mean you get to a point where it's just better to suicide in your elder years rather than to hit 60. I could reach 60 every life if I really wanted but my ability to work goes down significantly unless building yum chains to keep me working until the very last moment. I'd rather just suicide and come back as a baby to collect my gear and return to working.
You must recognize that you are something of an anomaly, yes?
Most people have a higher investment in the RP aspect of the end of their life.
I don't believe the Eves are really that far spaced, but I don't know for sure.
Each new Eve spawn along the Eve spiral is 250 tiles away from the previous spawn on the spiral (although the actual spawn location is randomly placed within 50 tiles of the designated "spawn point").
In my list above, "fixing the compost cycle" takes up just one line, but within that one line there is a huge amount of dependencies, complexity, and work. DestinyCall did a good job describing what's involved in detail. I'll add a short summary:
Sheep pen
Constructing the pen
Killing a wild mouflon and domesticating the mouflon lamb
Fixing the pen when someone breaks it
Sheep tending
Making lamb food
Feeding lambs
Shearing sheep
Killing sheep
Butchering sheep
Making wool
Keeping the pen clean and clear
Berry farming
Carrot farming
Wheat farming
Compost making
Tools needed:
Shovel
Knife
Shears
Sharp stone
Branch
Bowls
Drop spindle
Knitting needles
Baskets and carts (optional but helpful!)
Bow, arrow, and rope for the mouflon lamb
Other tools for pen construction (depends on type of pen)
Most of the items on this list could be expanded even further. The point is that there is plenty here to keep anyone busy, and lots of things that can go wrong and require fixing. But the compost cycle is the heart of a viable town; everyone in town should be aware of its condition and should take urgent action to keep it going whenever any part of it breaks down.
What I look for, in order:
First, the bare essentials:
Berries that need tending
Soil that needs hauling
Water sources that need development or maintenance
Compost cycle that needs fixing
Any of these items (especially the last one!) can have any number of dependencies that are broken and need fixing. Maybe there's not enough bowls to farm effectively! Okay, make bowls. Is there a kiln? Kindling? Fire? Clay? Do I need to haul clay? Are there baskets? Do I need to plant wheat to make baskets, or can I find wild wheat or reeds? FOR GOD'S SAKE WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NO SHARP STONES !!!!???
So you can live a busy and productive life just making sure that the town has what it needs to tend the berry farm!
If berries, soil, water, and compost (and everything that those depend on) are all in good shape, then I turn my attention to some things that are almost always under-supplied. People make just enough of these to minimally function and then don't make any more because they don't have to, but the town will always work much, much better if there's a lot more of them:
Baskets
Bowls
Milkweed
Buckets
Carts
Backpacks
Aprons
Kindling
Firewood
I suppose after the recent update "clothing" needs to be on that list.
After that I'd make sure that there's plenty of pies and that there's someone doing the baking (and the associated tasks, like fetching plates and hauling mutton and cleaning up wheat etc).
I didn't list "smith" anywhere here, because steel tools are a dependency of nearly everything listed above, so if all of the above are in good shape that means you've got all the tools you need. If you don't, then you'll need to do some smithing (or find someone who can) in order to fix compost, fix water, grow milkweed, make carts, get firewood, etc. While you're at it, make sure there's a backup hoe, shovel, and axe, so that when one breaks work can continue while someone makes a new one.
And, of course, if there's not enough iron to make new tools, go get iron. That'll take about half your productive life, so good luck with that.
If all of the above are in good shape, then your city is stable and mature, and you are free to indulge your creative urges. Pick something that interests you and learn to do it, either by trial-and-error or by watching someone, and then practice doing it for as long as it keeps you entertained.
And finally, every town is always in dire need of cleaning up. You can spend life after life after life being productive simply by getting rid of clutter and moving essential items back to where they belong. It's a thankless task; no one but you will ever know what a difference you have made, but rest assured, you have indeed made a difference.
Wait.. is the grass inside of the room with the jungle square warmer than a similar room with just grass squares? In other words, if inside of a room, can a jungle (or desert) square make the grass squares warmer with everything floored?
The only effect a biome tile has is on its own tile. If you are on a grass tile, there is absolutely no difference between the tile next to you also being grass or instead being desert.
... assuming you're standing still, of course. As soon as you move, the biome of the tile you move to matters a great deal.
But the heat or cold generated by a biome tile has no effect on any other tiles, no matter how close or far, no matter whether enclosed in a building or outside.
But finding ruins/other cities is not in jason's vision for the game, and it is very rare.
Jason does want it to happen occasionally, just not often or routinely. And that's been my experience - it does happen, but not often.
I said this:
floors are so much more important than walls - every floor is counted four times when adding up the insulation totals, whereas each wall is counted only once. It's right there in the code: floor insulation values are quadrupled.
But I was wrong. I looked at the code more carefully and now I think I understand it better.
It's complicated to explain, but essentially walls are counted three times and floors are counted four times. So floors are more important than walls, but walls still matter.
Not having walls close to you reduces your insulation quite a bit, which in turn reduces the effectiveness of the fires and the reduces the effectiveness of the biome reduction.
Being near an open door will completely kill the biome reduction, but it only has a small effect on fires, because it only has a small effect on the insulation, because the walls (and floors) still count.
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Spoonwood, I hope my last two posts here will help you figure out how to optimize your buildings. I myself have no idea what will work best; I've only tried to understand the algorithm.
The algorithm doesn't know about the room, it only knows about the aura. Nothing outside your aura affects your heat, ever.
The aura is blocked by walls, but it leaks through open doors and gaps (including diagonal gaps!).
If the player is on the orange tiles, the aura has no way to leak through the walls. The part of the aura sticking out past the walls is not included in the player's airspace (aura is different from airspace!). The walls are also not included in the airspace! Since the airspace is completely floored, the biome's contribution (either heat or cold) will be reduced. If there are any fires within the airspace, their heat will be concentrated onto only the few tiles that are within the airspace, which includes only tiles inside the room (which means the fires are more effective).
If the player is on the blue tiles, the aura leaks through the open door. The part of the aura sticking out past the walls will be included in the airspace because it connects back to the player through the open door. Since the tiles outside the room are not floored, the airspace is not completely floored and so the biome's contribution will not be reduced. If there are any fires within the airspace, their heat will be spread out among all the tiles in the airspace, including the tiles outside the room (which means the fires are less effective).
Note that if the player is standing right in the center so that their aura doesn't touch any of the walls, then those walls do not affect their heat and effectively do not exist. That lowers the total insulation of their airspace, which means that fires won't be as effective and biome reduction won't be as effective. If the player moves one tile in any direction, their aura will touch the walls (some of the walls), and the walls they touch will now exist for them, which will increase their airspace's insulation, which will make the fires and the biome reduction more effective.
The Point: What if you dropped the "special case" temperature shock and removed averaging. Go directly to biome temp, but evaluate it as often as you do averaging. This would be a simpler implementation and easier to understand. You might even be able to optimize it to not process when the player is stationary (though this wouldn't process fires appearing/going out etc.)
I like this suggestion.
The current benefit of clothing slowing down your adjustment to the equilibrium temperature isn't really much of a useful or interesting effect. The important effect of clothing now, just as it was before the update, is the heat it adds, not the heat it preserves. And the paradigm of progressively reaching equilibrium rather than instantly reaching the tile's target temperature doesn't really add much to the game.
This would result in simple-to-understand mechanics, and dancing between tiles wouldn't let you reach perfect temperature.
If you think about it, clothing slowing the rate at which you progressively move towards equilibrium is a third-derivative mechanism. Clothing changes the rate at which you change the rate at which your food bar changes. Does that degree of indirection really improve the experience?