a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Oh, don't think anyone's said this apologies if they have, but what about blocking an exiled person from exiling anyone unless they unfollow first, or maybe it just hides their exiles while they're still attached with an upstream exile against them. Basically means that a king can immediately clear out bogus exiles by exiling the offender unless the offender chooses to break ties
There is a question about people UNDER an exiled Baron, and what happens there. They aren't (currently) seen as exiled themselves. They did nothing wrong.... I think I may need to fix that. They should be highly motivated to stop following the exiled Baron, right? Not just slink along under him and trick people into seeing them as allies. Maybe they could get "half an X", or a black \ over their badge...
Yeah downstream from an exile def seems worth surfacing, sounds reasonable.
Exiled by downstream seems like it deserves the same kind of similar but visually distinct treatment, not quite as important as exiled by upstream but still essential especially if upstreams can undo downstream exiles. A king should have access to the information about who's exiling who in their kingdom.
It doesn't even matter that much with two competing hierarchies. It's not enough to exile the competing leader: his followers can temporarily follow you to pretend that they are on your side.
Mostly related to this, or specifically, to address the issue of spies switching sides... Could we get an indicator of how long they've been following that person? It would be nice to mouse over and see if they've just switched or been born into it for their whole life.
Switches will legitimately happen of course, so there's still room for espionage (eg, no I'm not a spy officer, my previous leader died recently) but it would make it less trivial at least. Leaving your leader and proclaiming allegiance to someone new and then switching back should have -some- kind of consequence or limitation to how it's done. Maybe a cooldown, maybe a limited number of pledge tokens you spawn with, though even just having a visual timer reset is something at least
jcwilk wrote:Kinrany wrote:oh, exiling doesn't prevent a person from being your follower
I think you meant "leader" not "follower" right?
On that note, does exiling someone make them unfollow you and be unable to follow you until they're redeemed? Presumably also unable to follow any of the exiler's follower tree?
Haven't tried it yet but I'm already very into it. We need more recursive shit fosho
Exiling and leader-follow status are separate systems. This allows for your trusted leader or trusted follower to get exiled by a higher-up, and you can be like WTF, and go to the higher-up to protest.
It currently says YOUR EXILED BARON STEVE or whatever.
Will make sure it also says YOUR EXILED FOLLOWER MARY
There is a tiny information hole here, and I'm not sure how to patch it. You don't know WHO exiled someone, so you don't know who to go to in order to protest. You just know that either you or someone above you did it. And the full information here is hard to provide, because it's complicated. You could be exiled by a long list of people, so we can't present that info on mouse-over.
I could make REDEEM pass downwards. So if a Baron exiles someone, the Count, Duke, or King above them can redeem them, overruling the Baron's exile. So you can always appeal to the supreme leader for help. Well.... actually, maybe not. I guess individual people's exile lists should be inalienable. Or.... maybe... submitting to a leader means you give up the sanctity of your own exile list? If that leader keeps overruling you and redeeming people, against your wishes, you can always stop following them, or convince your leaders to stop following them.
Well the "long list" that exiled can only be among your chain of upstream leaders right? So why not just show the highest leader from the list, if they redeem or get unfollowed and one of the lower leaders is now the highest leader that exiled them then it can change to show that person at that point.
I don't think a king would see that a duke had exiled anyone right? So it would be weird to let the king redeem someone who looks to the king as if they're not exiled in the first place.
My earlier suggestion to let upstream leaders see that someone has been exiled by a downstream follower (but in a visually distinct way from how their own exiles or exiles from upstream leaders look) would fix this tidily, along with doubling as a way to surface a griefer to a king without having to find them and communicate it as per the original intent of the suggestion
With a working govenment body there also has to be incentives. Right now in this game there is no "meta". There is really no goal other than to survive and reproduce if you can. The only thing that makes people do work in town is so they could survive. This is why many small villages work so well, but when you become a big town people start to get lazy from the surplus of foods and other materials. If this were a game where it give incentives to actually work, then we might as well get a functiong government. Also, with the updates of wars and not being to able to understand other families it seperates people which just causes mistrusts amongst different families. I would definetly like to see a point based system (not the ranking system)/currency in the game. I dont know what you would do with currency but it would be quite interesting with the implications it can bring in.
Currency can be anything you want it to be. Oil is probably already a currency of sorts but trading doesn't work in ohol at the moment and without trading there can be no currency. Adding gold coins in would not add currency, it would just be useless objects that nobody wants
jcwilk wrote:DestinyCall wrote:Why not allow exile status be fully visible to everyone?
It is a useless feature if nobody can see it.
Because if you (or your mother) haven't elected to trust someone then you don't care what their opinion of anyone is, and griefers would 100% always mark everyone exile
If I don't care about exiles, what's the harm in letting me see them? It won't change my opinion of the exiled player. And who says I trust everyone in my current hierarchy? Sounds like these things can get monstrously large and interwoven. Chances are good that I won't actually know all my leaders personally, especially if I've inherited them.
Just tell me who exiled that person and I can back track to find the griefer, if the exile feature is being abused.
Yeah but then you have to do work every time you see an exile. When exile is based on your tree then as long as you trust the people above you (there won't be many) then you can trust an exile indicator and react to it immediately, rather than after they've already killed someone or stolen something or whatever. I would probably just completely ignore exile indicators in big towns if it was from anyone in the town rather than the handful of upstream leaders since I'm not going to spend half my life tracking down faulty exiles and trying to figure out if 10 different exilers are griefers or idiots or valid while the actual griefers getting exiled are running around griefing
oh, exiling doesn't prevent a person from being your follower
I think you meant "leader" not "follower" right?
On that note, does exiling someone make them unfollow you and be unable to follow you until they're redeemed? Presumably also unable to follow any of the exiler's follower tree?
Haven't tried it yet but I'm already very into it. We need more recursive shit fosho
Why not allow exile status be fully visible to everyone?
It is a useless feature if nobody can see it.
Because if you (or your mother) haven't elected to trust someone then you don't care what their opinion of anyone is, and griefers would 100% always mark everyone exile
I'd like it if leaders could see that one or more of their followers has marked someone as exiled. Not in the same way though, so they can be like "oh wow one of my hierarchy indicates this person is no good, i should investigate" maybe it even says who marked them. Basically automating the process of hunting down the Supreme leader and communicating an exile candidate. "sister" allies should not see anything about exiles marked by other sister allies.
Killing your exiler will not free you from your exiled status, unless that exiler has no leader to inherit your exile status.
Hey for this one, does it mean when you die, the exiles float upward and get attached to the leader of the dead person? Wouldn't it make more sense if they floated downward and attached themselves to the followers of the dead person?
+1, something seemed off with that couldn't put my finger on it but I think you've got it
I guess for fixes you just have to grief things in hope that gets his attention vs all the github posts.
Quest accepted: Get Jason senpai to notice the need for improved property mechanics asap
Scooters are easier to make. Two desks, one stick, three tires and a binder.
Good luck getting that to be anywhere near running speed offroad though
Got the title of supreme emperor before the simple title of Dad.
Feels memey and full blown roleplay instead of "realplay."
The realplay element of it is marking trusted and untrusted people for others without having to track everyone in the village down and keep typing the person's name in. It's pretty easy to dodge detection as a griefer even after being caught by one person because it's so tedious to try to escalate it as a thing anyone should care about and remember. This seems like it makes that process much more trivial
The lack of a governing body is anarchy. The is the natural state of most OHOL villages. No laws, no government, no leader. Perfect autonomy and no accountability.
As long as everyone knows what they are doing, it works great. But if you have a lot of new people, the system collapses pretty fast, due to lack of coherent direction.
Personally, I'm not convinced that any form of government is necessarily better than anarchy, especially in a small village. But a single GOOD leader is, theoretically, better than no leader. A bad leader might be worse. And too many leaders tend to create inefficiency and waste too much time, good or bad.
Ideally, whatever method is used should provide real value to the village by reducing waste, coordinating large projects, and helping people work together more effectively. If forming and managing the government and laws would take too much time and manpower, it is unlikely to be worth your time to setup or maintain a working government. Right now, we don't really have the necessary tools to facilitate most traditional forms of government. Communicating ideas just takes way too long and it is too difficult to create and enforce customs or laws.
A bad leader could be better than no leader though... Depends on your metric. Like a leader who is obsessed with building buildings and doesn't give a shit about producing food would be kind of an idiot and not looking out for the village, but it may very well be a better story than everyone quietly and efficiently doing tasks they've done 50 times before in 50 other villages.
Or maybe a leader who stages public executions of lollygaggers, not optimal at all but certainly memorable.
jcwilk wrote:An interesting example, and it reminds me that I still haven't really figured out why with so many clearly intelligent, passionate, and motivated members of the OHOL community there aren't more player run servers out there given that everything is open source... Like I don't get how Jason isn't concerned about losing money to this and how he doesn't. Not to criticize his hard lean towards open source at all, I'm as big a proponent of open source as they come and am thrilled that everything is open, just curious about how he manages to not make it conflict with his need for revenue.
Well, if I recall correctly, Jason was planning to sue the OHOL for mobile people before they rebranded it as You Are Hope and did some other things.
It might be relevant to put these links here:
One City Server: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4868
Community Crucible Mod: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6794
Huh delicate line i guess re: lawsuit.
Thanks for the links! I take back my spoonwood shittalkings
We just need a few more Jasons and then all our dreams will come true
http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report
Not sure if this is what you're looking for. BS2 is short for big server 2 which most players are set to spawn to. 2hol is separate and i dont keep up with the goings on with it either. Heres a link that should give you an idea.
Got it, thanks for the info and links. I knew what it stood for but I thought it was not the main server from the "2". Interesting about 2hol, looks like they're accepting money for it also which makes sense given server costs but seems a little complicated given that presumably 99% of the code is borrowed, but I guess that's typically how open source stuff works just not as used to seeing it in games. Cool stuff
Um... This is amazing. I love how as I was reading it i was thinking "oh it's a joke about bloodstone circles and gathering power" with an m night twist that it actually is not a joke
jcwilk wrote:Find me a successful game where major design decisions are delegated to the players which isn't some superficial fluff like 8bit mmo.
Counterpoint, space station 13 is mostly designed by coders coding cool stuff and players migrating to the servers where the new cool stuff doesn't break gameplay
(I agree though)
An interesting example, and it reminds me that I still haven't really figured out why with so many clearly intelligent, passionate, and motivated members of the OHOL community there aren't more player run servers out there given that everything is open source... Like I don't get how Jason isn't concerned about losing money to this and how he doesn't. Not to criticize his hard lean towards open source at all, I'm as big a proponent of open source as they come and am thrilled that everything is open, just curious about how he manages to not make it conflict with his need for revenue.
Edit: also I haven't been paying attention to what's going on with bs2 and 2hol... Are those community servers or just his own experiments? Is there a listing of community servers somewhere if they exist?
Like is there not a community edition of the OHOL server repository somewhere? Is that against some license he uses or something? I suppose I could dig through the code to try to answer these questions but I assume someone has these answers off the top of their head...
Design by committee is a terrible idea. Brainstorming is fine, making suggestions is fine, making complaints is fine, but if you leave the final call up to players then you'll immediately get a broken nonsense game. Find me a successful game where major design decisions are delegated to the players which isn't some superficial fluff like 8bit mmo.
Believe it or not, there's a difference between gamers and game designers
Spoonwood wrote:If anything, at this point in time, players that suicide should get rewarded.
*raises eyebrow*
Classic spoonlogic
Amusingly enough, iiuc, the genetic score tweaks encourage killing your mother if you expect to otherwise die before she does, assuming she's old enough to probably give you positive points since if you die before she does then you get nothing from her. Definitely encourages giving gma the boot.
Legs wrote:testo wrote:"play the hand your dealt everytime".
Very often that means folding when you know it's hopeless. You never bet on a losing hand. This analogy only proves that infant suicide is very often the wise choice.
It is ridiculous as analogy but whatever, you are just trying to justify /die has a valid gameplay. I don´t really care in the end, but don´t feel wise because you are choosing to play only "winning hands". Has Jason said, the game is suposed to be hard. I´d be happy if the game had a 3 life/hour limit or even a hardcore 1 life/hour. But relax, that is just too unpopular so you all can be as picky as you want, choosing how to spend your ohol hour gameplay and which towns you want to play in. I can play with a mod and eat cooked beans for my yum, you can /die all you want. That´s the nature of the game.
1 life/hour would be pretty awesome... I'd be into that. Sadly most players would not and it would majorly throttle spawns even if they were and it's pretty low population already
Im talking about lone wolves who made strides on their own. Issac Newton would be a notorious murderer instead of the father of calculus we know him as if forced to work with others.
Putting a limiter on people like that only limits society.
You say we stand on the shoulders of giants but what happens when a giant cant grow past 8 ft. Limiting growth only enables stagnation and a frustrating experience imo.
I like challenges. Ones i can grow and adapt to. Ones that feel good to overcome. There is no overcoming tool slots. Unless you plan on grinding for hours to get the right score. Only to have it taken away a week later.
Lets be real, the system is bad and benefits nothing. It only slows down progression just like the last few months of updates have. Instead of making interesting content all we get is sand on the fire. It makes thing predictable and boring. I dont see how anyone can enjoy this stuff. Especially when knowing it takes away from potential *real* content. Instead of wasting half a year on updates that serve no purpose other than to annoy players we could be seeing real content updates and balancing done in regards to them.
Boo!
Yeah, isaac newton is an interesting example, however, we're not producing things like calculus in OHOL... Knowledge appears to be already readily available to all somehow, it's simply a matter of creation of physical goods. I guess you could say that it's that "knowledge is readily available somehow" snag which kind of makes tool slots make sense? Like why is it that everyone just automatically knows everything from a young age, like what kind of school are they going to and where do I sign up? With tool slots it means each life you have to pick and choose what you're going to choose to excel at well enough to provide services around that skill to the village, only truly exceptional souls can master all tools... it's not a freebie, nor is it necessary to do everything yourself in a multiplayer game with cooperation as a central motif.
That all being said, I agree that it lacks a certain... oomph... like it's not exciting to be unable to do things, there's probably a "more fun" way to represent the concept of doors of other possibilities closing as you choose your life path, then again, that's a pretty depressing aspect of life and it's kind of interesting to model it in a depressing way haha yeah im torn about it clearly.
jcwilk wrote:OHOL allegedly takes place in a post-apocalyptic future...
No, it does not. I made a mistake when I said that multiple times. It takes place in the future, but there's no supposition of some apocalypse. How things start in a world with no signs of civilization anywhere save the strange monolith isn't fleshed out. It takes place in the realm of thought-experiments.
jasonrohrer wrote:The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.
It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.
But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans. So there was no apocalypse here. There are no ruins.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8576
If you have something that contradicts anything that I've said above, it would be interesting to know.
Thanks for clarifying, it was probably that which I was remembering. Noted, future non-earth, though why the f the time it takes place matters when it's not earth is beyond me
