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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#151 Re: Main Forum » Village math » 2019-01-02 23:43:11

Tarr wrote:
Naked in Neutral      4.8 sec/pip             746 pip/hr
Insulation 67.3%      8.3 sec/pip             433 pip/hr
Coat & all furs      12.4 sec/pip (ins 86.75) 291 pip/hr
Clothed + rug        18.0 sec/pip (ins 100%)  200 pip/hr

This values are creating crazy formula with least square aproximation of quadratic function
C3CHvvW.png
Would it mean, that at certain added insulation, the hunger would be even stronger than in naked state? I must be missing something!

#152 Re: Main Forum » should we open up to magic? » 2018-12-31 01:35:27

The only magic available in this game should be the one related to spawns and possible resets. What spawn magic? Like lineage bans, or respawning in place of happy old-reason death.

However, I am not utilizing this magic. I always try to fit into new situation and it ends up with me making basic sustain for the village all the time. I cannot progress technology, as other players are usually not skilled enough to sutain my efforts.

#153 Re: Main Forum » OHOL photography » 2018-12-18 01:13:57

karltown_veteran wrote:
Glassius wrote:

Why you do not use

[img]html_link_to_picture[/img]

only url code?

Can you see this? https://imgur.com/a/wzA3upj

jgEjOep_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
With small adjustment, yes. When you are on imgur with your picture, right click this picture and choose open in a new card. Then url from this new card smile

#154 Re: Main Forum » The People You Meet In This Game » 2018-12-18 00:49:18

Tea wrote:

In my opinion, there is no such thing as MINE (BP, clothes and knifes are another thing) in a town. Everything can be used by everyone.

2p7uic.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator

#155 Re: Main Forum » To make the game even harder, it needs to be made easier. » 2018-12-17 23:52:10

MultiLife wrote:

3. Identification system: being able to set a title for yourself as your profession so others can see it and talk about it, ask about it, bring apprentice to you etc.

4. Town info board/job list/sign. Just something to at least list professions even if it doesn't show names who is doing what. Players can check themselves who they are lacking.

About professions, they are already here smile Blue wool hat, wolf hat, aprons, red cross aprons, straw hats... The only problem is crafting them smile

#156 Re: Main Forum » Necessity od day/night cycle or seasons » 2018-12-17 23:47:37

Yes, this is the thing. Do others have time to reason with you? Then why should they listen to you? Or anybody else?

I was thinking about much simpler solution: resting furniture, like armchairs, coaches, beds, hamocks and tents. Resting there should for example, increase temp. After resting for 30 seconds it would give you a 5 minutes bonus "rested", which would decrease every hunger pip by 2 seconds. It's just a proposition, of course.

Making them on desert would be pointless, because players do not need more heat there. Making them outside in other biomes also, cause they would raise temp not enough. But, if they would be placed in buildings in colder biomes, they would help to manage a perfect temp. So it would be not so strong towards parenting, leaving desert and making building usable, as day/night cycle, but still something. I will wait a little for feedback from community and maybe even jason about it. Somewhere deep inside I feel, furniture would be better because of much smaller complexity. But man, a torch giving light in dark...

#157 Re: Main Forum » Necessity od day/night cycle or seasons » 2018-12-17 23:09:09

I didn't want to talk about all consequences, as I wanted to keep first post clear. If daytime had warmer biome, it would be easier to stand still and stare at others work at day. During cold night in building there would be talking, like

- I wanna do smithery. Who want to learn?
- Me!
- You will need a lot of iron. I will catch some. Do anyone has a horse cart?
- There is only a riding horse. We need to make sheepsaddle at this moment. But there is no gooseberry
- Hi little baby, to you wanna keep gooseberry farmi a little, for a sheep to eat?
- FU

Staying together at cold night in building has purpose. Communication and preparation logisitcs for the day.

How do you want to teach by showing, when as shephard you have to run all around and farm wheat, compost, make buckets, ropes, steel blades for shears and so on. Efficient players are a microcosmos for they own. They do not cooperate and do not schedule work for others to keep others organized. Not only because they refuse to communicate, but because they have to do everything on their own, as nobody listens to their requests and they are not in the city middle when others requests tham for something.

In my last life I've received a job: collect iron. There was already a cart horse ready, but no stanchion kit for mine I eventually find like 8 biomes from home. Every bucket was constantly full of water. I was communicating to others to leave one of 3 to empty it, but I got ignored. So it ended with me sheparding for dung, making compost for milkweed farm, making rope and finally getting this stupid rope. This simple task took me a lifetime, but I finally made 4 stockpiles of iron and even converted half of them to wrought iron. The city ended with 4 crucibles before my old age death. How easier would this game be, if somebody new how important for me is to acquire this stupid bucket and to make milkweed farm...Which eventually showed up in greater numbers, after I had to start them on my own...

#158 Re: Main Forum » Being a nurse is more enjoyable than I thought » 2018-12-17 21:49:46

It remembers my most memorable gameplays, where I was a teacher. Too bad, developing a settlent is too hard currently, so parenting is possible only in advanced cities sad

#159 Main Forum » Necessity od day/night cycle or seasons » 2018-12-17 21:30:04

Glassius
Replies: 7

Reddit suggestion

What are the problems?
1. No parenthood. Efficient players are spending entire life working, but not teaching. This is a good strategy as everything can be learned outside the game: from forum, YouTube and onetech.info. Newbies, people wanted to experience the joy of learning from others ingame and roleplayers are not teached. Children are left on perfect temp spot, while their mother wanders around doing their business. The best is, if child is carried around to learn a start settlement. Solution: make staying together for chit-chat a meta, so efficient players won't consider this time as wasted. This would increase ingame communication, relation and possible make room for gambling smile
2. Useless buildings. Why bother, when fireplace, desert edge and city deserts are so much better to use?

Solution:
Dynamic temperature system, preferably day/night. Seasons would also need to apply dynamic biomes changes, like snow, gold leaves at autumn and so on. As great as it sounds, it seems as too big work for now. Maybe in future.

How it would look llike:
1. Lets make a day for all biomes warmer and night for all colder. This way, the need to eat during day would be decreased in most biomes, while they would make players looking for shelter during night. This may mean trans biome migration, but seems to complicated for meta.
2. Lets make diurnal temperature variation in every biome different as they vary in real life
tundra - no variation, freezing all the time
swamp, jungle - small variation, due to high moisture
grassland, praire - average variation. Almost perfect temperature daytime, much chiller nighttime. Perfect places for cities
desert, badlans - highest variation. Desert too hot daytime and freezing nightime. Badlands freezing night and perfect at day.
3. To indicate night, apply darker screen and less colors. Things may be visible, but dark and more monochromatic. Night can be little shorter than day, due to twilight effect. Make smooth transition.
4. Proposed timings: 3 minutes day, 30 seconds dusk, 2 minutes night, 30 seconds dawn. Full cycle in 6 minutes, people dying of old age may live for 10 days.
4. For realism aspect, this would also need a lightsources, possible with different effects. Lets make oven, hot coals, kiln and forge enlight area in red, while all fireplaces in yellow, preferable with different strength.
5. Apply real life temperature gap according to model picture below from this site about diurnal temperature variation:
t_diurnal4.free.gif

#160 Re: Main Forum » Mini guide: car making mind map / backward engineering » 2018-12-17 15:05:06

I thought I am spending too much time on thinking about game design and future changes. But I am not nearly halway psycho like you, pein smile

Very nicely done. What program did u use for picture? GIMP?

#161 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: Irrigations system (with some drawings) » 2018-12-17 02:32:16

This is great idea! I still believe Jason would introduce waterworld in future, with lakes, rivers and sees. However, such big sources of sweet water would make newcommen pump neglected. However, if such a newcomen would automatically irrigate a big amount of tilled rows without need to run with bowls and bucket, it would still be viable option smile

#162 Re: Main Forum » Infant Mortality, Nurseries, and Newbies (TIPS) » 2018-12-17 02:26:15

There are basically 2 things to consider: diurnal temperature variation and amount of light available. My proposition: 3 minutes day, 0.5 minute dusk, 2 minutes night, 0.5 minute dawn. With temp food in halfway from the worst to the best you got an adult to survive 4 minutes with full hunger gauge at beginning. Kids with 4 bars would survive on it from 10 to 80 seconds, depending on temperature. Adding some safe margin, it means newborns would need to be fed once-twice per night, and adults after breakfast may survive up to the evening without food.

1. Diurnal temperature variation:
t_diurnal4.free.gif
Which means, temperature can be rising between 6am to 4pm and decreasing the rest of day with a constant rate. This would make a time window: 11am - 11pm the above average temperature work period. This physics also explains, why people evolutionary developed preference for just after dusk activity rather than right before dawn.

Such an implementation may be neutral to total calories consumption if people stay outside the whole day and night, thanks to linear dependancies. But the usage of shelters, bed, tents or bedrolls for the around dawn time would help to keep temperature perfect, keep people together and make chit chats. This would mean a less effort on farming with increased time for talking. And even during night, very determined player can keep playing. Full rabbit/wool outfit would be recommended for sure.

2. Available light.
AcdqMMJ.png
Thanks to twilight, we can enjoy sunlight for extra 2h24m every day, though much weaker. This would make 50% of time a daytime, 10% a twilight and only 40% a night. And even then, if dusk is at 6pm and temperature is decreasing from 4pm to 6am, you've got still around 40% time of night start when temperature is over average.

Personally, I would enjoy if night would mean only a small circles with our char or nearby light sources be visible. The rest should be covered with black smile

What does it mean? People would like to stay in building early morning, this is time to make food and consume before rest of the day. After dusk and twilight, they can still be active, at temperature above average, although only near light sources. Such a concept would introduce an extra cycle, more fun crafting (beds, bedrolls, tents for explorers) and increase ingame communicating, as staying still and talking sometimes would be a new meta.

#163 Re: Main Forum » Infant Mortality, Nurseries, and Newbies (TIPS) » 2018-12-16 22:55:24

I've got a deja vu. There are historical eras on forum:
1. Many threads with people complaining about nothing to do in camps. Jason introduced stew and sauerkraut.
2. Many threads about monodiet. Jason introduced potatoes and corn, tacos and burritos.
3. Many threads about griefers destroying villages trough multiple spawns. Jason introduced many strange thing experimenting between his concepts and needs of society. This resulted with donkey town.
4. Many threads complaining about lack of antigrief mechanics, Jason introduced decay and medicine.
5. Many threads about lack of technological advancement, Jason introduced industrial era.

Now it seems, we are at era of complaining about lack of communication between noobs and veterans, as keeping village alive is too time-eating activity to leave time for teaching. This is currently not a game about parenthood! My most enjoyable experiences are when I was teaching others smithing and shepharding. I expect more threads to be posted about it and I've got a solution, which would also make buildings more usable.

Day/night cycle! Biomes at days would be warmer as they are currently, making it a time window for work. Nights, with much colder biomes, would enforce players to build shelters in which they may cook, eat and communicate. Simply, time for practising parenthood.

I will make a comprehensive suggestion about it. Please, consider it.

#164 Re: News » Update: Internal Combustion » 2018-12-16 22:36:49

We do not need buildings smile Every time spent in building is not spent on civilization running. Every resource used for building, is resource not used for civilization running. This is Nash balance output of current mechanics smile

#165 Re: Main Forum » Natural bug repellent » 2018-12-16 22:35:44

The main issue: Jason wants to keep jungle balanced, as this is a biome which should provide high profit (bananas) for high risk (mosquitoes). If we are applying counters to mosquitoes, we would also need few bananas or more threats. I would add jungle snakes and jaguars smile

Also, bug repellent is a solution for jungle town, but not for people exploring jungle alone. Alongside bug repeller there could be also a hat with mosquito net.

Fun fact: Malaria was a big problem all over the world, including North America and Europe. During American Civil War 1 316 000 people got sick and 10 000 died. In I World War it strikes 80% of soldiers from both sides in Macedonia fight zone. With invention of DDT, malaria was eradicated in USA and in Europe.

#166 Re: Main Forum » OHOL photography » 2018-12-16 22:07:56

Why you do not use

[img]html_link_to_picture[/img]

only url code?

#167 Re: Main Forum » To make the game even harder, it needs to be made easier. » 2018-12-16 21:56:43

lionon wrote:
pein wrote:

better communication, and bigger FOV might work

I agree.

Communication, communication, communication!

So, there are two types of players: efficient and RPG. Efficient are sparing their time for settlement development and neglect teaching, as early settlement is constantly on the edge of survival. They finish game when face high tech city with plenty of resources and nothing to do. They continue playing only for game mastering (pein) or to check new updates (me). Other players cannot learn from them, as they are only working.

RPG players are griefers, newbies, religious members and so on. The most memorable example is Aurora.  They contribute a little or nothing to the settlement, why they contribute a much to the relations and drama. They are the masters of communication, but in terms of learning the game, they have few to say. Sadly, many of them believe the fairytale this is a game about civilization building and parenthood. At this point this is not true, because of lack of communication from efficients.

They get angry at each other, as efficient do not tolerate playing and tech experiments, as this is using out necessary resources. RPGs are getting lost and confused and often leave the game for others with better story tell.

The solution is communication, but how to enforce it? Introduce day/night cycle! Jason may make a night much colder, which will force players to build shelters, in which they need to stay to keep warm. Maybe even beds and tents, to make chit-chats during night with perfect temperature. To counter this shorter time window for work, days may be much warmer, so people are easier at keeping temp balance and working. This would put more time for communication, drama and teaching.

I will make a comprehensive suggestion about it. Please consider supporting it!

#168 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-16 11:17:17

I think a multi uses transitions may be a viable new engine mechanics. Possible uses:
1. Combining stacks of plate, bowl and buckets
2. Fast filling bowl of berries by using a bowl, both empty and partly filled, on berry bush

#169 Re: Main Forum » Non-wound ailments » 2018-12-16 05:21:37

I love the car crash idea. It would make roads necessary, or you gonna get hurt on tree, rock and so on smile

#170 Re: Main Forum » To make the game even harder, it needs to be made easier. » 2018-12-16 05:06:37

Unfortunately, it seems Jason is now pushing the technology tree towards, because he promised to develop this game only for 2 years. He may not find time to apply changes to early tech tree. It saddens me a much sad

#171 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-16 05:00:42

I've just posted in on Reddit as suggestion

pein wrote:

so it wont happen

Buckets and cisterns are not containers. They have uses, just like shovel. People were dying in this game, because they were unable to water plants with bucket. It is grotesque and drama, but should not be possible. Using a bucket would just trigger a transition. But Jason would need to add transition to every object using bowl of water and pouch with water to make it work the same way.

A completely different thing is using cistern with bowl and bucket. Jason would need to apply below formulas, most possible changing the engine:
partial bucket with x uses + water cistern with y uses    ->    partial bucket with x+min(y, 10-x) uses    +    water cistern with y-min(y, 10-x) uses
empty bucket    +    water cistern with y uses    ->    partiall bucket with min(y, 10) uses    +    water cistern with y-min(y, 10) uses
full bucket    +    cistern with y uses    ->    empty bucket    +    cistern with x+min(y+10, 100) uses
full bucket    +    empty cistern    ->    empty bucket    +    cistern with 10 uses
bowl with water    +    cistern with y    ->    mepty bowl    +    cistern with y+1 uses
bowl with water    +    empty cistern    ->    empty bowl    +    cistern with 1 uses

And also immediate transitions below
partial bucket with 10 uses    ->    Full bucket of water
bucket with 0 of uses    ->    empty bucket of water
cistern with 100 uses    ->    full cistern
cistern with 0 uses    ->    empty cistern

This engine change would make cisterns much more valuable, are they would be possible to use even without buckets.

#172 Re: Main Forum » Thoughts on fire » 2018-12-16 04:18:56

Make a suggestion on reddit wink

#173 Re: Main Forum » Idea: Domestic Goose Feathers can be used for arrows » 2018-12-16 04:13:13

Reddit suggestion

I would spread this idea for fun purpose smile Basing input information
1. It is possible to catch wild canadian goose alive bare handed IRL.
2. There is now a probability mechanism we can apply to hunt goose and other animals.
3. We could put use for catching net.
AvRIjex.png

So, possible actions would be:
1. click on Canada Goose Pond
    -> 10% of catched and hold canada goose, just like with domestic goose
    -> 90% of Canada Goose Pond - swimming
No feather obtainable this way
2. Releasing a goose, both wild and domestic, would make a feather left in hand.
3. Both wild and domestic goose should be possible to be killed on stomp.
4. Released canada goose would change to flying canada goose, eventually disappearing from the server.
5. The same flying animation would make possible to arrive a new wild goose from nowhere to pond with ideal water level with a rare chance.
6. Both types of killed gooses should give you a feather during preparing their dead bodies
MTwfoFF.png
7. Shooting a canada goose pond with with arrow gives below outputs with chances
    -> 30% of killed goose with arrow, obtainable with no issue
    -> 30% of killed goose with arrow, floating on water. Obtaining it would make you wet and decrease temperature level for some time like minus isolation. Removable at any campfire
    -> 30% of Canada Goose - swimming with no arrow, because it sank smile
    -> 10% of Canada Goose - swimming with arrow outside the pond, to pick it up
8. Using a catching net on Canada Goose Pond
    -> 90% chance to catch it alive
    -> 10% of Canada Goose Pond - swimming and empty catching net in hand

This catching net may also have more uses inf future:
1. Remove possibility of loosing worm during fishing. Other outputs, escpecially catched fish, should receive more chances smile
2. Use on other person to make him immobilized (also the catcher). Then lasso with third person and you got tied player, ready for interrogation smile

The problem with all the cities being big berry farm is the issue of usability of Bowl of Mashed Berries and Carrot and Bowl of Mashed Goosbeerries and Carrot. We are giving it to compost, to sheep and it is the best baby food, as it produce large amount of small hunger-filling berries, so babies are not wasting pies and tacos on their small bellies. I think, this is not a good thread to discuss it.

#174 Re: News » Update: Internal Combustion » 2018-12-14 23:42:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/6v3qMsx.gif
"It took us 4000 years to advance from stone-aged tech to the iPhone the first time around.  If we had to start over from scratch, naked in the wilderness, with nothing but rocks and sticks, but we retained all knowledge, how long would it take the second time?"

It took us 300 000 years, according to new findings smile

jasonrohrer wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/6v3qMsx.gif
The more closely I study this stuff, the more baffled I am about how we ever did it in the first place.  How long would it take the second time?  My current best guess:  Forever.
As in, never.

It is easy, if you know human societies can be modeled with mathematical models and there are three major models:
1. Paleolithic. People are stuck in Lotka-Volterra equation and are depending on what they can hunt and gather. If they are too efficient, they will eradicate the area and finally meet a population collapse. This is why we were hunter gatherers for 300 000 years and we developed agriculture only after ice age end 10 000 BC.
2. Malthusianism. People are producing food, and with proper soiling they can sustain high population forever. However, every extra food is transformed into more people to the point the population is so dense, most people are on the edge of starvation. In this state every pair of hands is useful, so people are reproducing as much as they can. Prosperity is possible only after big disaster, like war or famine, when the few survivors have much resources for themselves. The prehistory, ancient and medieval times are the constant repetition of building a thriving civilization and apocalypse collapse.
3. Capitalism. The population density and sophistication of economy is increasing the competition between people to the point, where people start favoring quality over quantity. Since XIX century the economy is growing much faster than population and it seems, we escaped the Malthus trap and we will not reach again the state of near starvation.

People would need to repeat this process if we had to start from scratch. But it would be so much faster, if we conserver our knowledge smile

#175 Main Forum » 2 important questions: dynamic timers and comprehensive life cycles » 2018-12-06 21:23:21

Glassius
Replies: 0

We're all interested were is this game going. To have better understanding I want to ask these two question to you, Jason

1. Do you consider applying dynamic counters? I've got two propositions with possible impact:
a). Currently, wheat sprouts need 2 minutes to grow to unripe wheat. After applying dynamic counters, it may depend on the area, so wheat in grassland may grow in 90 seconds, in green biome in 150 seconds, 5 minutes in desert and 7 in ice biome. This way, it would be more interesting to plan farm design, as the dessert/swamps borders would be one of the worse for farming.
b). Simpler compost making. Replace original dry compost pile making to new one using only trash pit and straw (or reed bundle). Also, change original Composting Compost Pile timer to crazy 15 minutes! But, make the timer decreasing everytime you put there something organic, like the godly bowl of mashed berries and carrot, but also simple corn, popcorn and dead lambs smile With proper maths, an extremely motivated players may decrease timer much below 4 minutes, but usually it would be a longer task. This I do not consider as easier task, because there is a need also for trash pit to do. But it would be more immersive soil composting.
huolg1h.png
c). Or this below, to make smith apprentice job more important:)
ScOpkdU.png

2. There are some life simulation things applied only to one creature, only people having 2 sexes and dying of age, domestic horses not reproducing, only sheeps making dung, hunted seals not providing food and so on. Do you plan to add such a features to other plants and animals? You know, make them actually growing in the environment and reproducing? To make below actions possible:
- bring 2 new rabbits, male and female, to repopulate the grassland
- plant only one milkweed in green biome, it will eventually produce more in the area
- hunt down all wolves in badlands, to increase sheep population to prevend pine sprouts from growing into trees

The second one would be much, much, much harder. But, if you plan so, people skilled with ecology of population simulation may help you with proper maths.

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