a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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To my knowledge the newest version should have fixed yhe saving issue. Are you launching it through the exr or batch file? Try running it through the runserver batch file as administrator and see if that fixes it for you
Are you using awbz windows based server or the linux based one?
Replace nursery fire with everlasting fires. Either that or place carts in starter camps. Wouldn't want to break the fun of starting a new camp because thats my passion in the game but give them a nudge for a better chance of surviving
Damn yeah you are completely right about the fact its a crafting resource like a tree and should be seperate from food. Good thread.
Agree on some sort of way to get rope other than milkweed. The only way we have to store anything requires 4 to 12 bowls of soil, 4 to 8 tool uses and 4 bowls of water, which adds up quick.
Solid point spoon. Typically someone doing something like this would just be a minor inconvenience and eyesore till fixed. In this case it would render the entirety of the building useless, which is part of the concern.
To Tarr, yeah I wish neutral buildings were better, but if they were wouldn't they make these jungle and desert buildings useless? In a sense the higher reward for mastering a more difficult habitat fits well.
Multi generational plants would be very in depth to code and track. Also involving RNG into farming is a big can of worms. I don't think wild milkweed should regrow for two reasons, one there should be a downside to picking the biome clean and not cultivating, and two milkweed plants would be in the way of building.
There should be some sort of gain to putting in the effort, soil, water and tool use into domesticating the plant. To my knowledge its the only plant that does not change its behavior after cultivation.
Not sure if any style of rug will look pleasing repeated over and over in tiles. More flooring options that behave differently would be more ideal. Such as stone floors would cool better than wood floors in this specific application. Unfortunately stone floors are way to expensive at the moment. 49 rocks to dig up to do that room in stone floors is sadistic.
Or learn to share and not kill over 2 straw.
Yeah..... /endthread
Hmm thats what I would worry about heavily, is the general user to not understand the cooling/heating property of buildings and claiming it doesn't work simply because they aren't closing doors. Still though mad props for getting a desert building up, and I do hope it is used.
The visual noise of the rugs is quite hard, I usually don't like them in anything but a nursery for that reason.
Personal opinion also is that 7x7 is a massive room, and there is little reason to use them especially as a bakery. They end up turning into a junk room that holds all the random stuff from a town, and have tons of traffic. If it becomes cluttered you have what, possibly 30+ tiles of objects to clear out, rather than a dozen or less. A room like that I would say would be better suited to hold all the extra tools and organize food for yummers.
Pretty sure mental energy going into what we should even fight over/for before how to fight would be better idea.
The game currently does not allow for non-lethal violence. I would just punch him, but instead had to kill him, only because I wanted to protect my property. Me and Jason want property to become real thing in this game. It will happen only, if we defend it!
It's the fact that you were seeking violence over a rather mundane event is the point. Doesn't matter what level of violence was used, or what level you wish you could have used, you still wanted to use violence to teach a lesson. You have lowered yourself and we are kindly pointing it out. Also you mentioned you were frustrated because a group of anonymous people playing a game together online did not value your personal efforts on the same level you did. Another slightly cringe worthy point honestly.
If you hope was for an echo chamber and general agreement, this was not the venue you should have chosen.
As to property, pretty sure Jason is mulling that one over to give us a better tool against griefing other than kill on sight.
Although I agree that the Flowering Milkweed phase seems odd, it does let you know at a glance that you will be getting a fruiting phase that will produce seeds in twenty seconds or less. If anything make it so when you pick it during flowering stage it goes right to a stump instead of being debris for a minute before being a stump. It's actually quite annoying when someone picks a dozen milkweed plants in a farm all at the fruiting stage stopping you from using that tile for 11 minutes as opposed to 2 minutes.
If you are wanting to buff milkweed/rope I'd say make natural milkweed give stalks and domesticated milkweed just give a thread. Milkweed is one of the few or perhaps only plant that when farmed doesn't change it's behavior. Seeds are the same, product is the same, does not regrow, does not leave a hardened row. I think that is part of the frustration of milkweed, there is no way to manipulate it through player action other than to just plant a bunch of it.
I also like the idea of an official practice server with actual 'tutors', though that'd probably be doable on an empty server with eve chaining now that I think about it? One could feasibly set up a practice town through eve chaining on an empty server and invite new players by having them select the server. So long as you're fertile, they'd spawn to you as a baby first rather than another eve, right? Wonder why nobody's tried that before.
I have done this a few times by accident when breaking out the of tutorial area. Although it took the person I found a few moments to realize I was a real person that was in their tutorial area, when the confusion was gone I brought them to the extra area and taught them smithing 101.
The problem I always have with sticking to a mono-job life is that most jobs are interconnected with each other.
If I am the baker, I need wheat and pie fillings to make pies. If there is no wheat farmer, I must plant my own wheat. If there is no shepherd or rabbit hunter, I must gather my own meats. Often times, if these key jobs are not filled, I will find that we are also running dangerously low on compost and the water supply is also critically depleted. So I start out just trying to bake a lot of pies and I end up doing five different jobs without baking anything at all. It works better if I pick a job like "cart maker" or "berry patch fixer" or "mosquito wrangler" but even then I'll get distracted when I notice that there's a bunch of uncooked pies in the bakery or the last shovel just broke and no one seems to be minding the forge.
Although true, it could also just as easily be false. The reason you need to shift jobs is because someone stops doing it, or no one takes it up after the previous person passes away. If more people were willing to devote their entire time in a town (usually their only time in a single town as well) to a single task, there would always be surplus for others to use. This immediately exacerbates the current storage issue though, creating generations worth of a resource is obnoxious to store, and makes it less likely for someone to take this style up. I had a life once that few minutes into the life I realized my ambitions weren't very strong, and most things that needed to be done, were being handled. I decided to spend nearly my entire life cutting trees and organizing the wood piles. Not sure how long that town went, but man did they have an absurd amount of firewood and logs to make whatever they wanted.
Also Destiny this should sum up what you are feeling pretty well.
http://i.imgur.com/D0uGijE.gifv
More possibilities to have settlements in other biomes than swamp/grassland mix. Relocating and entire settlement is quite a feat, and starting off its really hard if you don't have close water or soil. Giving us someway to make full towns in savannah or badlands or even tundra would be a fun change of pace.
in fact, if i realise that a player is roleplaying, chatting on discord while playing, twinning, using awbz to manage the game, then i am out, cause i see all that as cheating & destroying my gameplay
& there is no value for me to play with players skewing & actually destroing the gameplay in those ways- - -
Well thats rather extreme. I would say that every single life you play has at least one of those. Why so much negative energy towards people that come at the game from a different way. To me that appears that you are looking for any reason at all to give up on a group of people, which then begs the question why play an only multiplayer game.
Another thing to note is that an optimal player caan support a town during their lifetime but once their time is done, its done. Their can be a surplus of every resource possible but if the last girls don't understand their importance the town will fall. The entire game is complex sand castles with a constant tide ebbing to wipe it clean. If your last girl only knows how to eat berries and doesn't know to keep a carrot or something on them to avoid starving when venturing out means evryone is six feet under is huge.
Thanks for the insight Spoon. I haven't messed heavily with higher forging tech so was pulling that out of my ass a bit. Moreso i was referring to that if buildings were no longer such an investment they wouldn't need yo be so multipurpose. A room with a kiln just to make pottery wouldn't be insane at all. I hope for that, everything being so scrutinized for efficiency and the constant struggle to maintain things feels like an artificial difficulty curve.
a fine example of bad bakery space design
it might be enough functionality for a single player
but it's the overkill of dysfunctionality in a chaotic multiplayer, OHOLan oven or kiln put directly under a wall makes it inaccessible from above
put near a corner makes the working space unnecessarily crowded, while the whole space remains emptythen two doors from side but not accessible from above & under
again, in a single player it might be enough
but in a busy town it's just a time waster
if you want to make this even more dysfunctional, surround that building with fast roads, no stop gaps on doors, lol& then the nice looking idea of a fire "room"
i see immediately some mothers trying desparately to fit with their kids to that tiny roomwhy ? just why so little focus on the actual functionality of a bakery in a multiplayer game ?
what's the use of yum or warmth if the spaces are dysfunctional, stealing the limited in game time & making the production flow stuck ?
bad working space design
- - -
Thats part of the point. We are so constrained on what a building needs to be shaped as for warmth, that artistic and functional freedom is out the window. Buildings are rather expensive because they are attempting to be a survival element. Tarr is heavily pointing out that they are failing miserable at that goal as well, and should be addressed. Every single room is just some ticky tacky little box that has only two differences, the walls are made out of adobe, or they are made out of stone. Why people are trying to shoot holes in a proof of concept, that jungle buildings are WAY more efficient than neutral biomes, is beyond me.
an oven or kiln put directly under a wall makes it inaccessible from above
put near a corner makes the working space unnecessarily crowded, while the whole space remains empty
I personally don't understand this. Why is it that important to access the oven from all four sides? A crowded workspace does not always mean it can not be efficient. There does NOT have to be two people baking if you are doing it right. The below picture was one of the designs I have played with for bakery, that is not another stupid rectangle box, that also can pump out a ton of pies. There is three rows that can hold full plating, and the three column spaces on the left side can hold plates/rock/water/bowl/etc while you are making the pies. When you are going to cook, you lay down three baskets, one from each loaded box, in the space between the two lower boxes. Little right click magic on the baskets, which you don't need to move a single square to access all three, again right click to rotate cooked baskets for raw (the other reason you take one raw basket from three different boxes to speed this swap up). A single person can cook about 36 pies ALONE. If a second person were to join in, which would indeed be rather unnecessary but for sake of argument, unless they are standing in prep row, they will not block the baskets/oven/boxes anymore than you are.
If you are in a town that needs more than 36 pies cooked in a single kindling burn of an oven, you have bigger problems I can not even fathom.
Yeah I'm not sure an 8x8 is too efficient for most high tech smithing. You can definitely however make an efficient forge room/pottery room in the rooms without too much overall hassle. I think you either devote "two" rooms to doing high level smithing at worse with something like a working forge + newcomen at the top side of the room and something like its charcoal producers/cisterns along the bottom side of the room.
Obviously the building I've been working on isn't 100% efficient as it's more of a fun little project while I work out the kinks. I really like the thought of having hallways between certain rooms as posted in the image since it makes the building less of a giant blob. One of the biggest issues I've been running into is that you basically need all springy doors otherwise players will just leave the door open and roast you and themselves.
One, if buildings ended up being cheap, having a room just for pottery would not be a stab-able offense. You could end up with a room adjacent to another, that one is the regular smith, and one does newcommen and lathe stuff. Also very much yes on the hallways, there really is a lot that can be done with the building mechanics already in place, throne room hallway that is like six tiles wide with stone corner walls as pillars going down it, hell yes. We essentially can build castles that would look like Legend of Zelda, but don't because it takes enough resources to simply make an 8x8 room. As to the springy doors, honestly I just wish all doors worked like that and didn't need tech. People are more likely to close a door on someone walking right behind them IRL than they are to leave it open. Closing a door when walking through it is a basic reflex, and in game its such a tedious step.
P.S* In the bakery above I would not attempt to store food or have a fire inside of it. In a live environment I would maybe put boxes along the walls on the outside to store the food after it was cooked. Too much traffic in a workplace is super annoying, people are usually pretty good about staying out a smiths way, same should go for a baker. Lot of times people feel like they need to "help" when you start an oven, and that is not always true. Idealistically in a large town that is producing almost all the food available, a mess hall food storage room would be great. Signage and everything to denote all the different pies, crocks of stew and broth. But alas, settlements don't last long enough for this or are too disorganized for it. The game of telephone that is OHOL is a heck of a hurdle for ambitions such as this.
From reading through all of this it has become very apparent that buildings are struggling for identity.
On an organizational point, they have strengths if they are designed well to suit their purpose. The downside is that if they see any overlfow they are confined and it breaks the system. This is why one side of the fence says they just take of room you could use.
On the functional side, the constraints of getting optimal value requires a significant effort or planning. The building has to be this size with a fire this many tiles away. Other choice is to build in an uncommon terrain dealing with the mosquitos and heat until you are done.
My thoughts are to either make buildings more temperature friendly, or cheapen their cost heavily.
If they end up being treated purely for aesthetics or organization, let them go up faster or able to be sized whatever the architect decides. Get rid of half adobe walls and one adobe is a wall. Add another resource to plaster to balance it out. Make a way to get two walls out of a single rock. Froe and mallet on a log is a big stack of boards not a single stack.
If made more functional, better heat without fire. A plaster walled, wood floored room is a decent shelter by most survival standards. With any heat source you are optimal temp; fire, oven, kiln, etc. When in an enclosed room clothes bonus is negligible. If there is a fire in the room, or at least farther than a few squares, naked or not both at the same temp. Out in the wilderness, clothed versus naked is a big difference. Sitting around a fire indoors not as big of a difference.
+1 to the frustration of people not thinking of clothes as communal just because they are worn. I have had to slowly collect iron or adobe one basket at time many times meanwhile the nanny and her baby she is "guarding" like fort knox are fully clothed and packed up even though they are straddling a fire.
Its right up there with lack of communication amongst the camp. I had one life that i spent thirty minutes struggling to get rope to make a bow and get a goose for the file, as all local milkweed was gone and none grown. When i finally got back with everything, turns out someone was already working on that project and no one knew and half my life was wasted, well all of it because i suicided afterwards because i was down with that town.
I find that I can be very productive and in one life in an eve camp forge all the tools needed, plant the entire berry farm thats needed and build a decent pen that wont need to be resized for a long time and isn't basic square with corner entrances. This falls apart if there is food not being made or brought to me. If I have to break away and forage food then one of those tasks is challenging
Milk is a super good food for those that know its food. I have played the part of milkmaid before, setting five to six buckets around town near nursery, forge, farm etc. In twenty minutes or so i would say maybe four bowls were consumed out of the six buckets. Two of them were by me.
Same with stew really, i have seen kids running around like crazy saying there is no food because the berries are empty. Place of death, right next to crock of stew.
The tutorial needs a revamp. You can show people complex foods without showing them how to make it, leaving the learning experience in game. Part of the symptom of oversized berry bushes and dozens of rows of carrots is simply because a large portion of the camp don't know whats food and not, and how to chain them for yum.
Yeah unstable walls would be a really good way to go about it rather than having mortar. Buildings took off with cut stones in carts and I would hate to see that take a backstep