a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Good to hear it happens occasionally. I really miss the harrowing elements of this game. They used to be prevalent in almost every life, especially in the rift. Sure it was stressful but it gave a dynamic to the game that has since been lost. Griefers also rarely griefed in they way they do now. They had many different avenues to grief that didnt have extreme impacts on the overall survivability of a town or family. Knicks and bruises vs going straight for the jugular. Its a lot more satisfying to get beaten down then stand up and overcome that hardship. There isnt anything satifying about having a town disabled within a generation that results in hours of recovery just to get back to the state it was in before the damage. If the ginger town gets hit and the supply of oil is disabled it basically kills late game for the server. None of that is satisfying.
As dodge mentions there are some folks who would prefer this game to just be exclusively a cooperative and friendly experience. Those kinds of systems only work in single player games, or games with such rigid structures any ability for people to be disruptive are disabled. But even then people find exploits and holes to dig into.
Given how much this game is ruled by the human element and given the amount of access players have to the fabric of the game i dont see that ever happening. Think about human civilization, has the world ever existed where it ran exclusively upon cooperation and friendliness? Expecting that to change in this game is like expecting humans to change, its a nice thought but we do have to accept the world we live in and do our best to survive. In my perspective all of the mechanics that have been added to control or promote behavior have only make things worse, more destructive, and boring. I hope we can see the game return to a place where the human elements of this game are not filtered or suppressed by mechanics anymore.
When i used to have an upsetting life, it would remind me of some element of society that has occured in the past. Wars, slavery, betrayal, murder, raids, bandits, being a refugee, etc. As upsetting as those lives could be, they gave me a unique experience and a look into the psyche of what it would feel like to live in those circumstances. That isnt part of the game anymore. And there are abundant elements that have no tie to reality while disabling those older harrowing elements. Stuff like leadership, kill mechanics, homeland, biome restrictions, and previously tool slots.
One day i hope to see the human element set free.
https://youtu.be/xpXabRngjho
Thats likely going to skyrocket with the sale.
I miss this.
Easily solved if families had a population cap. More families with less people creates a more stable experience.
Planting outside of biomes though?
Old towns are pretty easy to find. Just follow the band east of whatever type of town your looking for and look for dry well markers. In my experience old ginger towns get cleared out of their oil and trucks almost instantly. Not hard to find and there is a pretty large population of folks moving things from dead towns west without roads. Roads would only speed up that process a tiny bit. The issue is distance. Traveling long distances to get things from dead towns takes a while, so you would need a long road. Two tanks of oil is 70 buckets of water or 70(technically 82) iron ingots. Pretty large cost for a landmark and something you cant transfer to new civs. Like i mentioned. If you prepped for like a 5-10k road and only used one tank then it would be pretty valuable, but anything under 1k is a pretty big waste.
Yea honestly if you're not prepping for the path of the road the paver is a waste. Its probably the most expensive thing in the game. It costs the equivalent of 35 buckets of water to run each time. So unless you clear for several kilometers ahead of running it its probably going to waste resources. Plus the amount of time you would need to clear for it wouldnt likely be made up with the 50% bonus speed. Plus towns and fams have been moving insanely fast. Seen them move 1-3k a day. So unless you are paving 10k sections every few days you are likely wasting vital resources and aiding in the death of towns and fams just to have to road lost in a day or two.
I love how this thread went from "help with road plz" to a battle about semantics.
Couldnt agree more dodge.
Yea that was because the rift wasnt optimized for an apoc tower to trigger. So everyone died thinking they could eve after it. But the eve window didnt open and the remaining moms were flooded with babies. Or maybe it was just because it was my blood that triggered that apoc, who knows.
In a cut throat world about surviving it makes sense there would be risk of your family dying or some lunatic trying to kill you and your family. Death is the easiest thing to undo, you just click respawn. In comparison cursing is pretty hard to undo. If someone is serial griefing sure, it deserves a curse, but cursing because someone named their kid or just because they were suspicious of you doesnt warrant a curse and honestly would prefer to be stabbed over it. Ive seen people randomly throw accusations around and have everyone in town curse them with no evidence by them saying "curse this person, they did this". Might as well just stab them and be done with it vs a potential 90 day ban.
I stand by my statements. A lot of these restrictions remove a lot of emotion from the game. Sure i play low pop, but mainly because i like to see my collective effort last longer than a few days. You can really stretch the potential of late game and have full ability to experiment and learn without risk. Plus i really only started playing there after tool slots and biome restrictions. I dont like restrictions.
That being said, the main issue i have with bs2 in its current state is that its grown monotonous and everything goes away faster than its made. The restrictions have turned what used to be exhilarating and unique lives full of drama and conflict into just doing tech to have it vanish. Even towns you invest in will likely be gone in a day or two. Even though we were stuck in a box, the rift gave more precedence to towns. Often towns could survive through updates and you could really see them grow into powerhouse cities. Your effort wasnt lost and made a huge impact in the long haul. That first eve camp could turn into a fortress and house many different families throughout the arc, even into the next one. This is impossible now. Towns are race restricted and the forward push west by spawns makes resettling nearly impossible, unless you want to set yourself up to be at a disadvantage.
Killing really wasnt a big deal. Sure it could be annoying, but it made for memorable lives and it gave griefer types something they enjoyed without it being overly destructive. Now all we get is people sabotaging the well and disabling a town and killing it through tech. Incredibly boring if you ask me and ide rather just go toe to toe with them with weapons than have to spend most of my life cleaning up the mess they left behind. I had a lot of difficult and harrowing lives during the rift, and before the rift. I dont think a warsword level of killing is good. But the current system is almost as bad imo.
There was this perfect point in the rift. Before tool slots, where if the rift was taken down the game would be almost perfect imo.
No iron change, no tool slots, no memescore, no homeland, no biome restrictions, no hierarchy, no kill restrictions, no generational food decay, no tap out range for oil or water, no eve restrictions.
It was pure freedom, and just your family and survival. I would take that game inside the rift any day over what we have now. Sure it came with dealing with people trying to kill each other from time to time, but for me, thats a small price to pay.
Those were the heartbreaking emotional hardships i was talking about. Seeing someone die and feeling the helplessness of standing there with a needle and thread but no pads teaches a lesson that would stick with you forever. It is very clear there are people who play this game who want to live in a perfect world. Im sorry to break it to you but a perfect world does not exist. Even if it did, it would be boring.
Games that seem 'perfect' have rigid structures around them that limit freedom and diversity. It limits the human elements that are really the only interesting parts of this game. You might not agree with me about the kill mechanics. But im sure you see how biome restrictions have limited diversity. All elements that have been added to limit freedom and force behavior reduce the diversity of experiences. In an attempt to make the game more diverse it has instead made it more monotonous and restricted. Kill mechanics are no exception. There is no "getting rid" of griefers so folks who think thats an option should just give up because its not happening. 2hol is a good alternative if you have a problem with that. All these kill mechanics have done is push griefers into a different zone. There will always be a new zone and it will likely be more annoying and destructive than the last. Currently i hate the resource griefing, ill take people trying to kill me and chase me around any day. Its insanely easy to outrun people if they dont have help. I mean seriously, you cant delete your problems and jason has given way to much leeway to the concept of it. At this point he might as well remove killing. What i have seen, is people cursing way more than the used to. People used to just stab people who irritated them and only cursed people they had serious problems with. Now you get cursed for minor stuff willy nilly because its the only power people have over each other. Old system was better. Tea was never saying insta killing was good, they only brought it up in reference and talked about the progression of the killing mechanics, highlighting the time period they thought it was best.
I meant like conflict driven hardships. Those dont happen, and its still impossible to invade another families territory and take it over. Being the last surviving female of your slaughtered bloodline carried emotions and feelings that dont exist in this game anymore. You held a resentment towards that family, a duty to future generations, and this ambition that you would one day take back your homeland in the name of your family.
The only hardships we face these days are technical ones. Emotional hardships hardly exist anymore.
Which band are you building the road?
Honestly i agree with a lot of teas points. The game isnt about building a utopia from scratch. Building this world without murder and griefers doesnt exist. And civilization is full of griefers, why should the game be any different?
The point about griefing being pretty much just random stabbings in the past was spot on. Now we have one of the most boring, destructive, and annoying forms of griefing. Back in the day if you were quick on your feet you could survive a killer. It felt triumphant overcoming them. Now its just, "oh no, someone stole the truck and all the oil".
I really dont get why people had such a problem with the killing elements. It was easy to deal with. And as tea mentions there was a certain point where it worked. It mirrored society and was driven by player behavior. Now its just driven by game mechanics. Everything that has been added to control player behavior has just made things more boring imo. Language, biome restrictions, memescore, leadership, and the kill mechanics.
The rift was more dynamic. It sucked being stuck in a box, but families and towns were given the time and opportunity to grow in character. Families would invade towns pushing the original fams into a nomadic lifestyle for a few generations till they settled again. These were interesting lives. Lives that dont exist anymore due to in game mechanics that block diversity.
Griefing in general is probably the most explosive topic surrounding the game. Any thread promoting its discussion will likely end up like this. Though personally i dont think your intent with the thread was bad. This subject will always attract folks on the far end of both viewpoints to clash.
With the current spawn cycling, if people didnt recover things from dead towns we would be restarting from scratch every 24 hours. Even some of the shortest rift arcs lasted longer than that and i doubt many would describe that as fun.
How would you feel if you pumped 72 tanks of oil and went back to get it, and people got mad at you because they want you to forget about your hard work and start from scratch?
Making things better for the next generation > starting from scratch
Only glazed over this but the term looting really only applies when someone still owns the resources, or the resources dont belong to them. I perceive this as either stealing from a living town, or taking items from dead towns outside your band. Sometimes this is necessary. But to preserve resources from old towns and move them west is smart. Even with people doing that, hundreds of hours of collective work is lost with movement. I think preserving that is a show of respect to previous generations. Sure its kinda lame to have a truck and kerosene in the first few generations but personally i would prefer to have a strong late game than a monotonous early game. The first 5 or so generations after eve are fun, but after that they are pretty boring. For me things really only get interesting once the mine has collapsed and kerosene is available.
Mods might be sleeping. Im sure they'll get around to it, and hopefully close this thread.
You're right, you won, we should just stufu.
Yea, i agree fug. Couple of points though.
If griefers were 70% of players they wouldnt be the ones in donkeytown. On average i would say maybe 5-10% of players grief. Hard to gauge though since a lot of the time griefers are repeats and not different people. A plane in donkey town isnt going to do you any good. The distance is easily travelled in a lifetime by racecar. I also highly doubt oil is being pumped in donkeytown. I dont mind griefers who have a fair amount of respect for the game. As in actually trying to spice things up. Either by roleplaying or by doing minor griefs like letting *one* domestic boar in the kitchen. A little bit of salt goes a long way, but dumping the entire salt shaker on something makes it inedible. Destroying hundreds of hours of peoples' collective work isnt fun for them. Spicing up their experience is sure, but killing families, killing towns, packing up all their important late game resources and dumping them, is not fun. Its honestly just a spit in the face and only fun for folks who find gratification in doing that.
Solid.
There is a possibility they didnt read through the entire thread before that post. Bit of a drastic ban, especially when compared to other posts in the thread. Hopefully its a short one.
Yea i think the one thing we can all agree on is that im the one being toxic in this thread.