a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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I have some problems near town camps. I got murdered more than five times as a toddler when I asked “town where”, generally those people act like crazy. So I only stay in a camp like that when my mother is reasonable (like you). I wouldn’t say with the twins for instance. And also, when someone steal a cart full of tools to start a camp, I just suicide and try to reset her cooldown if it’s possible, because I had problems in the past with people stealing pies, carts and tools to start a camp and they kept going back to steal pies without bringing plates back. But taking a bowl, even three bowls is ok. I think people is just scared of camps, because, generally, the camp starter is so egoistical that’s peanut worth spending one hour helping her. But it’s jut a hypothesis, because I’m not sure if it happens to someone else.
Had a couple children that when asking about where and how close the town was, just because they were worried about iron. I usually scout an iron vein when attempting a offshoot camp, and find a suitable place nearby. You shouldn't need to bring a cart, plus you'd have to wait too long and just limit your distance and time before having children. A backpack and a cart is all you need. If the town is suitable for such adventure, has excess steel and newcommen/loom etc, you should be leaving with at least an axe, shovel and one bowl, but simply that is enough with a low impact. You should be going out far enough and attempting to be a completely self reliant establishment. Running back and forth to take pies is opposite of what you should be doing. Obviously if you are spawning in as a baby to a mother starting a new camp with tools, you don't know what condition she left the town doing so. It might not have been a damnable offense. All towns have to come from somewhere, and the possibility of a stable town rising from an expedition versus an eve camp is much higher. Instant suicide in attempt to mess with her baby cooldown is a little harsh, if thats what you meant, also little petty.
I don't see too many egotistical eves myself, and generalizing it to why people are shy away from startups feels off. Combinations of lack of knowledge and possibility of survival are probably more likely. If they are able to quickly asses the area around them, bad location might play a factor. Early camps do need a lot of direction and immediate actions, and there are some that don't like being told what to do or not to do. It creates some friction and they are already on razor edge, so everyone knows they are a gamble, many choose to avoid it outright. I would say that more lineages are lost by a huge margin, by player opt out, than any other causes like food shortage, griefing, lack of girls
Make poop decay
Nerf compost to give less baskets
Give way to get fleece without making poo
Add storage container for poo
Make relocating poo not a negative
All of these options tackle the issue. Not sure which I prefer.
I completely get what you are saying but at the same time, you'd be making buildings more expensive than they already are simply to counteract a niche grief. Also whether or not there is actual griefing seems like speculation. Sure a couple of the experienced griefers that know the game well enough might be doing this, and one playing session of doing so across multiple towns might make it feel like its on the rise, but does your average griefer do this? Just almost feels like the times I have watched someone try and repeatedly shear the last sheep pre dungpocalypse, even though the pen is made out of adobe oven bases that could be fully dismantled with a bucket of water and a rock, making the walls into kilns that take picks to bring down. Were they griefing, very much yes. Was it the best grief they could manage, not at all.
This would help mistakes by a long shot, as the dread of an accidentally misplaced wall is real, because its .5 iron down (reforge scraps) and you look like a fool that doesn't know what they are doing, but for normal building its just more steps and more resources for little payout. Making normal play harder, just for the potential to stop niche negative play, is realistically entering into a police state. The rules become strict and unbearable, just to stop the outcome of uninhibited minority actions.
Shorn sheep fed berry carrot bowl makes dung and fleece, just bowl of berries or just carrot gives just a fleece? Elegant solution.
If poo was easier and less costly to move around not sure if we would need decay. I have always been in favot of having a more dedicated tool for compost, and to ease up on the shovel.
There are a few ways that I do this.
Did I accomplish the goals I set out to? I usually look over a camp between birth and three and pick out projects that I want to achieve by certain points. How many of those I was able to do, and do well, over the life is one measure.
Was there a specific personal connection such as teaching an intricate task? Giving someone the knowledge and practice to be confident in a task is very rewarding for me, as I don't seek them out, so they are rarer and special.
Did my children and their childrens' children succeed, and were my actions part of that? You can never know for sure, but lately I have been having loads of great grandchildren and also lot of my kids have been living to 55+. How many generations that exist after me is a statistic I am fond of aswell as looking through the few generations after me and seeing lot of old age deaths. I usually play in newer camps and eve camps, usually am gen 1 or two, haven't Eve'd in a bit.
It's a combination of all of those that make a life standout to me. A life that I ended up not doing any of the goals I initially set, a life that all the girls died out, but also gave me opportunity to spend thirty minutes with a new player and teach them smithing from the ground up, is a really good and successful life. A life that all the kids knew what they were doing, I got to build a really cool Pen+Bakery, and there was dozens of old geezers after my time, that is also a successful life.
I'm hesitant to make the max life longer than 60 minutes. The game does what it says on the tin. 2HOL is boring, to me. It's just too long. I could make it shorter, by default, and then family lines living longer could "unlock" full lifetimes closer to 60. So, 40 is the default, and after your family lives 24 hours, it goes up to 50. And then at 48 hours, it goes up to 60. But 40 itself is "long enough." I'm not sure the extra time really matters, or is a strong enough incentive.
Really agree, even if you were to do two lives in the same family back to back, you'd at least be going growing phases again. Like you said it's One Hour One Life, it would be odd to have it operate differently in game.
What if the entire crafting tree was "filtered" uniquely for each family? These guys can make tinder, but can't make a hatchet. These other guys can make a hatchet, but not tinder. These guys can smelt iron, but not copper. These other guys can do copper and zinc, but not iron.
Only the things that your family can actually do would show up in your hints, and only those things would actually work.
(In general, I've avoided this kind of "forced specialization" because I can imagine it being frustrating.... if you "know" how to fish, but your character doesn't know how to fish, and must observe someone else fishing each life, in order to "learn" it each life... would just be tedious. Going through the motions: "Show me how to fish (again)" This has been suggested many times, by many people, including by the great Richard Garfield himself.... but I have very strong doubts about this approach.)
I would fear that wouldn't be immediately intuitive to new players that are learning. Understanding they are doing it right, but it doesn't work, would be frustrating at first. To experienced players, there would be many projects they might like doing, but can't do at all, because it's locked out, which would also be frustrating.
While I do wish I could go back to some families, and I would be happy to be in a good family for generations, I also worry that families will be killed off not because they are bad, but just because people want to play as Eve.
Griefing would be more harmful than ever, I believe, and some people who were not griefers before and that would just /die will now grief so that they can Eve. And there is the issue of griefers that do not succeed on ending a family and then get another shot at it because they keep being reborn in that family.
All in all, it seems like a fantastic mechanic in a perfect world where everybody is nice and happy to be part of that family. That isn't reality, though.
Players determined to Eve, could still self ban with /die and be banned out of that area/family, but players that don't necessarily need to be an Eve, but just like starting new camps, would have a place in a big town. To increase the longevity of the family, and the main town, you would need to have small colonies around your cities, and need people to start them. That with a stronger family tree visual and tracker, people would have pride in their cities and their family for branching out. You would want your families to succeed, you would want to take care of the young and the old, because they are your connection to the towns and colonies, it's a symbiotic relationship. There are ways to implement griefer control. Murders can ban them out of the family so they wouldn't respawn, or if there is a way to tell if the baby just came from the town and who they were before, you could just not feed them. Thats why I thought of having the ban kick in not based off time, but deaths in a family add up and then ban at a certain amount. Griefers would be removed pretty effectively by starving them out a few times.
I really started thinking about this after the lineage ban changes to area. It was the idea that someone in your camp could run away from the town and you get birthed to them and just come back. Well then I thought why not make a little mini base, nursery and farm. Once the kids are big enough to journey back and be useful off they go. A baby colony. It just naturally makes sense if you want your family to live as long as possible, if that's your goal, to have more than one sustainable camp. Any collapse in one will only effect a portion of the population, and if they were close and connected, an extra shovel to do compost in a time of need would be possible. Babies into the family would be spread between the two camps so there wouldn't be booms of food usage as heavy as they can be sometimes. If there is respawning in the same town for a couple lives, a smaller amount of people would be plenty efficient.
The burial thing sound very interesting. If you would really want to be reborn to that family, make sure to get buried by them. But what about those people who will bury all those bones outside of town ?
Someone also had the idea of marriage being a way to marry into a new family. Family A's last female died and are asking for a girl from Family B to marry one of their sons. There could be a priest asking "Jane B will you marry John A & John A will you marry Jane B" and if both say "I do" Jane B will now belong to the Family A. That way, more families could live next to each other and could support each other if their linage is about to die out.
I would also like to see a possibility for people to start a new family of their own. Either through marriage (they could change their family name and be the Eve and Adam of that new family) or by moving out of their town to start an outpost or a neighbor town. Lot of times outpost die out because most of the people are born to the bigger towns.
Just some ideas.
The problem with burials is that you would need to wait to be able to be reborn until they bury you. What if you died when there was no shovels, too bad. Also you would need a know you were buried from the menu, otherwise you could accidentally be spawn in a different town because you clicked the button 10 seconds before they buried you.
Two Ideas well kind of...
Death Ban - X deaths in a lineage/area bans you out of that area** This resets after X hours. Your family is cleared and the area restriction is lifted. You could spawn back into the family, but it is not guaranteed
You will spawn as a baby to the closest relative in your family, if eligible fertile female is available, starting with mother or sister and working its way down. You could be your "brother", you could be your "grandson", you could be your "niece" or end up being your "cousin" twice removed.
/Die - Enacts the death ban instantly thus keeping player choice
The Death ban would help keep the new starts in place, while still keeping the pace changing. Three strikes and you're out would give players three hours in an area before having to leave, and be a part of a new family. I would put the reset at a pretty high amount, 24-48 hours (realtime not game time). Towns would definitely be more stable and longer lasting with these changes, hence calling for a day or two area ban. I also say area because I think it would be cool that having split of towns from same family would give you a chance to come back at a relative distance from the original town and family. If the original family were to ever die out, you would be able to go back and restart that town, but if you never split off, thats it, it is gone. If eligibility is also affected by natural births and baby cooldowns, making sure all the kids do well in the town would be a little more important, because players couldn't return for a second and third life, if there wasn't good amount of females.
Give the player the same name they had before plus an affix when they spawn as a baby. You'd recognize the name, plus the fact they came out named, that they were just in your family and not a new entry. As you recognize the names, you'd notice the ones that also have been around for couple lives today in that same town. When you come down those final minutes of your last life, saying goodbye would be hard. Right now its just aww that guy/gal was here for a whole hour, good bye I will miss you - immediately go back to what you were doing. This would be an, oh shit, that dude built the super pen and both bakeries, and now he is about to be gone. She was the one that got all the horse carts and started making the cars, who is going to fill her shoes? Oh man, that was Psykout from the forums, and since we had time we did a lot together and talked a lot, I wonder when I will get that chance again.
Bigger mega cities would need to be surrounded by smaller camps just outside the area ban to ensure their success. Without them, the strong players that have been in the city before, wouldn't be able to get back in time to stabilize them before collapse. If the area ban was all the way up to 48 hours, pretty much with no colonies, everyone would eventually get banned out of the town and it would go extinct after a slow slow death. The fragility of a new camp would still have ripples inside of the civilization. Keeping connected to your colonies via radio would actually have a use, as knowing whats happening in either would important. Oh the colony to the west just had a compost breakdown and don't have any iron? Someone take a car out there with some for them. The main city just said goodbye to its mechanic, and needs a new replacement, and a new one is flown in.
A real kicker, or possibly stand alone, that could be added to the mix.
Old Age Deaths
Living past 40 enables an area ban. Dying of Old Age would clear this, unless the Three Strike Death Ban has been activated
Saying goodbye to someone that has lived three full lives would be sad, but heartwarming. Watching someone starving to death running towards a berry bush when old on their first life would be tragedy. Also my favorite thing about this.... Old Peoples' Home. We would have a reason to care for elders and make them rooms for warmth and food to nibble before they pass. Burying yourself and making a tombstone would be like a right of passage, that you didn't screw up, and your final burial next to your other lives would be the town funeral.
As a standalone, you could make it so living to old age is the trigger to respawn indefinitely if the town lasts, everything else would be rather normal. I prefer the mix
P.S also removing griefers would be possible by starving/killing them out with a group effort, and would ban them out of your area for a long long time. Passing information to colonies about troublemakers would be useful as well.
One more comment I think that in real life often wars are a function of the ruling class. Kings and presidents wage wars, ordinary people are only as invested as they can be taught to be by propaganda. So, in culture you need to have class before you have war.
We have crowns, but they don't have any power. And who wants to play the game and not be in the ruling class if you start that dynamic? For it to work you'd need a ton of people to play as "followers" and that isn't really appealing gameplay.
I think the most we might see are Hatfield's McCoy's type feuds. But a feud isn't a war. It's just escalating small scale violence over mostly nothing.
This fits for a roleplay sense, but not in a practical sense. Simply it boils down to, there is no reason to fight over resources. War is expensive, and in OHOL a comrade that dies isn't just a grave, but a potential enemy respawn. It will always be cheaper to attain the resource organically, rather than through opposition. Until towns can specialize in a tech path allowed by their home biome and get by, there is no reason to seek it from someone else. We currently need a little bit of every resource to get to the point of stagnation that would make a brute force method enticing.
Oh. My mistake. It just seemed kind of dated and disconnected from the game.
Quite the opposite, we are currently constantly scraping the bottom of the barrel when a town reaches a certain tech level, and he is trying to think of ways to refresh that, which is awesome, scary and exciting at the same time. The topic itself is really really broad, and I think need to be picked apart separately. The basics of war, having something to fight over, is not implemented. The time it would to take to prepare to take a thing from someone else to better yourself, is better spent just getting that yourself without the conflict. There is no point in going after a town that say has a lot of iron, and suffer losses, rather than just finding that iron on your own. That goal is far out of reach to me, there are a lot of puzzle pieces that need to be put into place before that picture becomes real.
This topic stems off of Jason's topic, but wanted to make a new, to keep focus on Jason's topic in that thread, but to open up discussion about the state of the game currently.
Where's the heated town meeting where we decide to load up the covered wagons and strike out for greener pastures?
-The only permanence in this game is the towns we have and those only last so long before being completely lost. Why would you ever care about a family if you both know the surname is likely to be lost in a few hours after you play and a few hours after that the lineage is likely to just be dead. We can't even get a lineage to last longer than two days without it being wiped out to griefers/rng/sids so it's hard to really care about a family unlike a town which you might come back around to visit within the week before it gets culled. We have no reason to work against other players in this game and in fact doing so just hinders both parties so why fight besides for roleplay or fun?
This is a real statement, but doesn't have to be. Lineages die because we attach them to a single town, and don't see the value in attempting different ways to keep the family going. Your best bet currently is to fiendishly set the town up to attempt to handle nocturnal fertility and potential griefing. As players, we care more too see a town succeed, whether it is because we want to end up back there later, or just like the idea that our efforts lasted, usually the former.
I question this concept frequently. I have tried to open discussions about pioneering, setting knowledgeable kids out into the wilderness with resources to start new camps, because it can be quite strong. But it's overshadowed by town mentality. Straight up, if you are in a later stage town, if you were to send out children that are skilled eves with clothes, backpack, and starter tools (Axe,Shovel,Chisel,Adze) they have a really high potential to make a camp that should last many generations, if executed right. If you leave a camp at three to five years old with this setup, you have a lot of time to find a spot, and start setting it up really well, before you can even have your first child. The trouble is, is that it holds little value in a meta sense, but why?
I think the lineage statistic tracking needs an overhaul. It needs to be easier to see whats happening to a lineage generation by generation. Expand the graphics, show full trees that split off and dead end. Summarize deaths/sids/old age deaths better. When I view a lineage, I want to be able to see how many in that line made it to 55+, how many died of sids/animals/yellow fever. I don't want to dredge through the current system to manually track that, I don't want to have to click through all the females to see which of their kids had kids that had kids. When I look up my life, I want to easily see that all my kids died young, but my sisters kids had grandchildren that lived to sixty, and their grandchildren also lived to sixty, and question what they did differently than I did. I don't want to play investigator to see which child was the linchpin that got the lineage to gen 40, that should be easily noticed by seeing a full expanded tree. How many players even track lineages anyways? Perhaps if it was easily attainable, easy to digest, perhaps it would become more important and become a new focus. In my opinion, seeing the eve of a lineage, and the most current generation, is the most basic information possible. The rest is there, just sorted into a hoarders storage tote in the basement, not a pretty painting on the living room wall.

Seeing that, all the way through every step of the way, would be awesome. Add a sidebar in that shows: X players lived to 55+ Y Players were murdered, Z died before fertility etc is my dream. Maybe we'd care to start new camps, I want to refrain from the terminology of outposts, I mean fully self sustainable new camps that are not meant to be linked. This is even more powerful with the new approach to lineages with area ban. If a family was succeeding and branching out with new towns every few generations or so, you technically could live 3+ lives all in the same family before ending up in a new one. This is how you have lineages that last day after day, and have potential to be the new top lineage, dethroning the outside-the-game coordinated lineages like the boots line that dominates the entire All-Time Long Lines (side note, there should be ONE single entry for that entire line. Every kid that lived in that line should not be on that list, Nameless - Died at 0 years old of starvation should NOT be the top of that list.)
Second one is my favorite. Nice to see the designs, gets stale doing the same pens over and over.
Yeah the bakery side was just thrown together too see how it kind of fit, main thing at first was the pen with the carrot enclosure that shares an access point with the top entrance. I'd agree on doing boxes as the bottom row in a fulls setup. You could also reverse that entrance, move oven one tile to right, inside block to left and add another block inside two to the right of that one. Blocks the pen, and doesn't stick the oven too far out.
Reversing all the entrances creates a fun X shape inside the pen, and squares off the outside nicely. 

Quick VOG mockup of pen with added on bakery, with carrots enclosed in the pen. Really been digging the low profile pen entrance. I'd rather just make the pen a little larger, and have the blocking item be on the inside, rather than sticking off from a corner or using the five bush block as it sticks out really far.. One berry push per entrance is sufficient, but a second makes it harder to lock someone in, if thats a worry. I normally would opt for two at each unless the bakery is attached, giving you 7-8 bushes and three rows of carrots to use for inside the pen. You could do on the outside but meh, this design would be for aesthetics and functionality, not raw efficiency. Still get 38 tiles inside the pen though at 42 bell bases.
You know what pisses me off as a baker? Why is it rather common for pens to have a transfer box breaking up the pen that can be accessed from within and outside of the pen, but bakeries almost never have a box like that. I know we all hate people feeding babies in the bakery, so why not put baskets of pies in an external facing box that is accessible from within the bakery? Makes sense to me. Same could go for a kitchen.
I understand what you mean by this. I have added "porch" areas to store the food, but it still doesn't fully tackle the issue. Imagine a restaurant. People don't eat in the kitchen, they eat on the dining room floor. In this setting, it would be a mess hall. We don't make rooms just to store food. Not the nursery, not the place with an eternal baby warming fire, but somewhere adults go to eat, yum and load their packs, that is NOT inside where you create the food, and not just where boxes border the room to block off, although that could work. But a room that has storage for every food type created in the town, centralized. Right now, pies are over here, stew over there, maybe different pies are over here, it just spreads and sprawls out.
High moment, forgot they eat them hahahaha, it never happens because we pen them that I totally spaced.... Hmm some kind of block that its there, but not accessible... takes too much inner space... I want something that is right there when you need it, can be cycled well if you want to pump out a lot of sheep, but won't clutter main farm or be gobbled by locust children....
I was hoping no one would be stupid enough to cart up the blocking chest, but then again.... Thought about doing just a adobe corner but wondered if something less blocking and actually usefull would be nice, without doing boxwalls because they don't look as clean. I guess I just don't like how all the farming seems to need to happen all over on top of each other. Each farming task ends up having its clutter, whether it be piled dirt everywhere, stacks on stacks on stacks of carrots, dried corn etc that I think it would be nice if they were compartmentalized. This has come up with having wheat fields near a bakery. Its not essential, but feels more practical. Anything to tempt someone to spend time on it before moving to another thing. Few people will devote a life to a single task, with the broader scope in mind. I have done it a few times, lumberjack, shepherd, dairy farmer. It gets tedious, but realistically in a long lasting town, one person spending an hour cutting trees and hauling back thirty tiles of piled firewood, would make a decent impact to the functions of the town, if they last long enough to utilize it that is.
This is why I think it would be cool to have mess halls, get the eater and reuppers out of production spaces. Lose the necessity to store cooked food near where you make it. Too often bakeries end up being made 8x8 and are both, and its annoying to work in.
Ehh good to see that they kept going for a bit. I put that pen together because there was a lot of adobe around. Been wanting to try out some pens that have berry entrances and have the carrots needed in there too, which is why I used the pond as part of the wall.
Modding isnt for casuals lel. If you're at that point, you almost certainly would end up coming into contact with the forums or discord. Downloading AWBZ from github is easy, one click, and then you have to extract it. If we had a steam workshop for this, we would just see a bunch of clients with various similar features that at the end of the day do nothing to change the actual game and just address client side QoL. If you want to promote AWBZ or some other client mod to steam players, then go on there and give them this link. You dont get a modding community because a bunch of players want mods, but because modders want to develop them and then people are like "wow thats cool I wanna use that". Most games(almost all of them) do not have the source code available, and all mods (if supported) are done through an API or other hooks that allow changes after that instance of the game has been built. This is an inherently slower and lower level of access to the software and you are limited to adding and modifying the game or software to what hooks the developer(s) put into that modding support. Some games store resources in xml, so you might get to modify values or sprites but thats that. If you want to do anything with this game, you are completely empowered by Jason to do whatever you want with it, including make money off of the game. Modders in many games would love to have that kind of access.
This is a really good summary of the whole idea. You would not be able to officially run many types of mods, so would need to have a dedicated server to use them. This is a game that ONLY really works with groups of people playing together. Splitting that player base more simply to mod the game is a terrible idea. There is simply not enough of a playerbase to start splitting them up, there is a reason the mega server was made, the game is more enjoyable if more people are playing on the same server together.
Cheaters and Jason's artistic vision are valid arguments. Just next time, do not argue that modding is very easy. It isn't. It's standard difficulty. Easy are mod managers. Say at beginning, modding is too easy and should be harder so there will be no mods at all.
The biggest and most used mod for OHOL is AWBZ. Reskins are done personally, there are not many that are managed by a content creator if any at all. Also it seems like you are forgetting something, just because there is a workshop does not suddenly mean lots of players will start creating content. This is a what came first, chicken or the egg, dilemma. Without a reason or commonplace desire for changes, there will be no mods. Doesn't matter if you have a digital storefront or not, they won't be heavily utilized, because it prevents you from playing on the normal server. You keep referring to Mount and Blade, a game that has a full singleplayer mode, and averages around 6k players a month, with easily 500+ playing official multiplayer servers at one time. They have the playerbase available, that making private modded servers would not affect the main servers heavily. OHOL does not have that. Lastly, literally to install AWBZ you right click your shortcut for the game, click open file location, copy/cut/drag files from the zip to that folder, and you are done.
Making mods more available is simple, fastly increase community and appeals casuals. Do you know that following external links on Steam gives you warning? Then repository, which causals do not know. Than download, extract (people Google how to extract zip!). Even finding Steam games directory is challenging to some. Every such a simple, easy step is the part of great learning curve we, forum users here, usually beat without problems. But if you want community to flourish, bigger player base, more cities, interactions, you must make it as easy as possible for Steam casuals.
This is just insanity. In my definition, someone who takes it upon themselves to mod a game, workshop or not, become more than casuals. Saying that people might not mod the game, simply because its a site based off steam, is you looking for ammunition. If you are using a newer version of windows, you don't even need to use an extractor. You just fricken double click the files. Same as that you can mount virtual images inside of windows. You can't preach that windows is popular because it makes things easy, only to follow it up with saying that doing a BASIC windows task is more than a common PC user can do. You are literally saying we should have mods on steam workshop for people that can not double click a file on their computer. Are you even thinking about what you are saying?
Best advice I can give you, in normal day to day life. If you are beginning or joining a conversation with the idea that either you will change someone's mind, or have yours changed, you are part of a discussion. If you are only wanting to change another's mind, you are leading an argument. Please stop arguing with us and listen to what is the majority, and adapt your minority opinion, or just leave it be.
Pros for modders
1. Github is for developers, not for majority of gamers. Most casuals can easy install something on Steam without any management, but not so easy from other sources.
I would hope someone who takes on the technical difficulty of this game, would be able to drag and drop files from a zip from github into their root directory. I understand what you are getting at, but as other said, its not a really good option for this game. Most mods that you are possibly thinking about would be required server side, which is such a niche thing, a private server essentially, that there would be little point to attempt workshop capabilities. Furthermore from a solo developer it would take a good deal of time implementing such a feature, that would get limited uses. None of want time taken away for something like this.
Put a cap on maximum yum and make the higher tech food give additional yum, +2 or so. Breaking the chain isn't as devastating if an advanced town because there is more higher tech food to yum off of, Eves can still yum as they normal would but wouldn't be able to max it out without starting to make pies. It would be nice to see yum as a mechanic that isn't this house of cards, but something you often reset and build back up. If a town is baking four different pies plus has stew going, it would be nice if we got a bigger benefit from that other than the same amount of yum you could get going through an untouched area. Also if across the board yum was used more, not sure if it would really change fertility much, smaller camps would be a little more competitive and big towns would and should be even playing field. This could open the door for food items that give a lower amount of pips but are really yummy, which is quite thematic.
My thoughts on this: stone hoes save time.
the Skewer have 5 uses and when the useful life is over, you have to go and find another Skewer
the time used in this process can be used to plant a new line of berry bushes or go to look for iron
The Skewer are not practical for me ..I also believe that the iron hoe should be the second / third item to create, after the ax or shovel if you need to create wells
I think the time comparison is very valid for new camps. Sometimes you get lucky and there is plenty of skewers, sometimes burning a stone hoe up to get the first set of berries planted is a better option if you can deal with the rope loss. Usually if I spawn in the very first generations of a camp, when I am real young I will go get a couple baskets of skewers for farming, or if natural skewers are garbage I will just snag a rope to make a hoe. Once you start getting into more carrot farming or start getting ready for stew farming, you will want a steel hoe for sure.
I believe milk town was a colony of another bigger town, my grandma had nothing besides steel tools and a cart, but no smithy anywhere. I built one eventually. She died before I could ask her which direction bigger town was.
Ha pretty sure that was me. I was starting colonies couple nights back with carts and tools. To be honest a couple people going out with some starter tools and starting a new town with a young girl is a surefire way to keep a family lineage going. That is, if you are trying to make a lineage go really far versus a town moving up.
Not a big fan of oven/kiln stuck in corner. It's ok for baking pies stored in baskets but for other stuff it constrict movment to much.
yeah that would be an easy switch to move it to center tile and move the box to upper left corner. Think that town might be dying out though.