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#201 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-16 07:56:02

pein wrote:

"'Well, the problem is that the cistern can either store BOWLS of water or BUCKETS of water. It can't do both. "

This is correct, however a bucket contains bowls of water as units. (this doesn't have to do with "container" tough).

The thing is, one could change the cistern to hold units as "bowls of water" and a bucket taking out multiple at once, however that would require a code/engine change as I don't think there is anything in the engine right now that makes one transition to multiple uses on the target object.

Buckets on soil should work tough... I just didn't yet get it 100% correctly. The details of transition object/category/engine as it is are a little hard to understand... at least for me.

#202 Re: Main Forum » Pssst. Next Update. SPOILER WARNING! » 2018-12-15 22:10:55

Sakkiyn wrote:

If we had rivers we would have windmills.

Windmills use wind and do not require a river, what you mean is a watermill.

Dunno what the first "machine" was, depends on how you define the term "machine" tough. Pretty much gray area on the lower end.

#203 Re: Main Forum » okay, so why do we have cars? » 2018-12-15 22:07:37

Well the idea is following, suppose tomorrow all tools and everything was gone, except libraries and knowledge... how would we restart things? The thing is, we probably wouldn't go the same route again, we'd really skip over things ahead, also the path humanity took so far is not the only possible way it could have been.

The one thing also to consider, this game focus on technology (re)development. The social development is not considered at all and yes of course supposing knowledge persisted only the tools being gone, we'd still have the ideas enlightenment, so there would me no medieval area, we wouldn't need to go through spanish inquisation again, we wouldn't need to do nazis again, etc.

PS: The old west only applied a part of the world anyway smile

#204 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-15 20:31:23

Tested it further, nope, broke, while it works fine with crops, now bowl with water + partial bucket with water (1 use) = empty bucket.

Dang!

#205 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-15 18:18:36

OneLifeData7$ cat transitions/660_-1.txt
1099 0 0

And works just similar. Unless I broke something which I'm not aware of, any issues with this?

Shall I make it a git pull request?

#206 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-15 18:11:16

OneLifeData7$ cat transitions/1099_-1.txt
659 0 0

And with this file the last use of partial bucket to empty bucket works as well.

Just need to figure out full bucket to partial bucket now.

#207 Bug Discussion » Things worn by players get deleted on server shutdown. » 2018-12-15 17:59:24

lionon
Replies: 0

Even when doing the graceful ctrl+z thingy.

IMO all players should be turned into bones on ctrl+z. No?

#208 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-15 17:32:14

pein wrote:

it's a container, basically a bowl is also a container and a bowl of water too
so it's a container in a container.

you cannot go 2 steps in 1 step

Sorry this is IMO nonsense in multiple ways. It's not a container, it's an item with uses and in case of bowl and waterpouch mapped to category "portable water source".

 OneLifeData7$ git diff categories/394.txt 
diff --git a/categories/394.txt b/categories/394.txt
index 474b9fcf..1debe714 100644
--- a/categories/394.txt
+++ b/categories/394.txt
@@ -1,4 +1,6 @@
 parentID=394
-numObjects=2
+numObjects=4
 210
-382
\ No newline at end of file
+382
+660
+1099
OneLifeData7$ 

If I define bucket of water and partial bucket of water it works already!

Mostly. It works with partial buckets of water with more than 1 use left, and it does reduce the amount of water in the bucket! However out of some reason I cant yet use the bucket with 1 use left (which would turn it into an empty bucket) and also the full bucket stays full making it an infinite water source, which also not desired.

I suppose there is still 2 transitions missing for this to work directly on the bucket?

Honestly I don't understand the system fully, yet.

But unless I'm missing something big, I don't see why this shouldn't work with minimal changes.

#209 Main Forum » Suggestion: (partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = wet » 2018-12-15 10:20:30

lionon
Replies: 14

(partial) bucket of water + dry planted [whatever] = (partial bucket of water/empty bucket - 1 use) + wet planted [whatever].

I suppose one should be able to spill the necessary water of a bucket to directly water planted crops. Would make life a little easier.

Unless of course there are more farmers than buckets available instruct them to use the conventional method using bowls as intermediary container.

#210 Re: Main Forum » Tarr's breeding machines » 2018-12-14 20:06:31

Tarr wrote:

human pens.

Haha just that term alone.

#211 Re: Main Forum » okay, so why do we have cars? » 2018-12-14 15:42:20

Falsewall wrote:

Running over a snake and needing rope to fix a course cart it is a pain.

Given that while you are on a horse cart you completely immune to mosquitoes, boars, wolves and bear I find the snake a fair tradeoff.

#212 Re: Main Forum » My experiments with the new hammer and a new ungriefable pen discovery » 2018-12-14 14:32:58

kiln + pickaxe = adobe rubble
adobe rubble + water of bowl = 1 adobe

The only thing I'd take care of is to make anybody near the smith or even working there aware you move it, and to have already the new kilns in place until you destroy the old smith. Otherwise they think you're a griefer.

#213 Re: Main Forum » My experiments with the new hammer and a new ungriefable pen discovery » 2018-12-14 12:02:34

pein wrote:

i never understood why people put the farm so close to kiln

Because for the eve camp its all they have, so why put it far apart?

IMO it's fine for the eve camp, what isn't done enough is once the camp grows to a town is to make a new kiln (or two) further away, a little more outskirts and move the smithy and then take down the eve-one.

#214 Re: Main Forum » My experiments with the new hammer and a new ungriefable pen discovery » 2018-12-14 11:24:01

BTW: A pen shouldn't IMO be larger than someone without zoom mod seeing the full thing at once... otherwise even well intended people can't tell well anymore how many shorn/unshorn sheep there are.

#215 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: Dog names » 2018-12-14 08:37:37

CrazyEddie wrote:

naming dogs good

Certainly no harm, I'd just take it further and like to put name tags on everything tough. Like recently played with a small group (<10) on an empty server and I'd really liked to know which of the backpacks where the ones I made in a previous life...

#216 Re: Main Forum » /die problem » 2018-12-14 08:18:40

xclame wrote:

This is the reason the die command exists in the first place. If I don't want to play in your camp no matter what you do I WILL be able to kill myself, there is nothing you can do against that.

Challenge accepted!

(See Tarrs birthing prison...)

xclame wrote:

stop making your farms away from water, your farm should be near water, not directly under the forge and 20 tiles away from water, not only do you make using the forge horrible you also waste so much time having to go for water every time)

Well this is not even the biggest issue, at least if you make it to buckets the distance doesn't matter so much. But if the main village is right in the cold greenlands I tend to suicide as well if it's obvious this is an early gen village and my mother (likely to noob Eve) doesn't have a surname..

PS: I believe on should be able to /die at any stage of life (e.g. due to imprisonment or due to having to leave because of IRL things) If below 3 -> SID, if = or above -> hearth attack.

#217 Re: Main Forum » Tarr's breeding machines » 2018-12-14 08:13:02

Ya, I had a similar idea of lock-em-up-breeding to save endangered lineages. Albeit I wouldn't have done it so clever as Tarr but simply put them in a room.

At the same time, this is so wrong and immoral on so many levels...

#218 Re: Main Forum » okay, so why do we have cars? » 2018-12-14 08:10:43

Lotus wrote:

Cars kind of remind me of dogs.

So you can make one tech tree branch to a mean pit bull car army to attack a whole town? smile

Well I'll just wait to see what the update brings before I give my comment on it.

My impression is, what is tried to achieve is more interaction between towns and better transportation ought to make this more doable. The bigger issue tough is, there is no (good willed) incentive to interact with another town as each and every is 100% self contained.

There isn't even relative production benefits of other places. Forgot how it was called in economy theory it's been a while, but it was shown that even if place 1 is more productive with good A and B than place 2, but on place 2 for example good B is relatively more efficient to make than A, while on place 1 it's the other way around, still both places gain by trading.

#219 Re: Main Forum » Griefer signs detected against plausible deniability » 2018-12-13 21:17:33

CrazyEddie wrote:

It's the exact same output, except that now and then you trade one more bowl for one more fleece.

The thing is, without sheering the last sheep that one bowl you had to "trade" for one fleece, it would have become 1 fleece *and* a dung *and* a shorn sheep if you would have been able to give a lamb.

It is just waste to sheer the last sheep.

Yes if it is a one time issue it is quite easily repairable effectively you just wasted one dung and 4 mutton (because if you would have given that "to be traded" bowl to a lamb instead of  a shorn sheep, you would have gotten more).

But to come back on the topic... this was what griefers do, I've watched them doing this, and yes with success... sheering the last sheep again again, while others try to repair the damage by given it a bowl. While there might be some fleece piling up the town gets deprived of soil and soon the berries and carrots become unavailable to it and it all breaks down. On older towns this can be a quite an issue for the distance to travel to get the wild ressources to start it again.

Sheering last sheep is bad. I hope we can agree at least on that even if there are different oppinons on how bad it is.  Ok?

#220 Re: Main Forum » Griefer signs detected against plausible deniability » 2018-12-13 20:42:43

Sorry, lets start with extremely same starting point, to make it clear:

Starting point: You got one wooly sheep and one bowl of berries/carrots.

Action scenario one:
1. Sheer the sheep.
2. Feed the shorn sheep

-> Result: 1 wooly sheep, 1 fleece.

Action scenario two:
1: Feed the lamb.
2. Sheer one sheep.

-> Result: 1 wooly sheep, 1 fleece, 1 dung and 1 shorn sheep (worth 4 mutton)

Just by turning around the order of things in a way to never have all sheep shorn you get way more output.

Yes I'm all in favor of changing the game physics in this regard. But as it stands the difference is that bad.

#221 Re: Main Forum » Griefer signs detected against plausible deniability » 2018-12-13 19:41:54

CrazyEddie wrote:

Nope. This is the correct comparison:

Sheared sheep + berries/carrot = Wooly sheep
Lamb + berries/carrot = Wooly sheep + Dung

You don't get the 4 mutton until you kill the wooly sheep, and that's true in both instances.

Not quite.

Lets have two scenarios.

Scenario one.

Initial Position: You have one shorn sheep.
Operation: You give it berries/carrot.
Result: You now have one wooly sheep.

Scenario two.

You have one wooly sheep
Operation: You give the spawned hungry lamb a berries/carrot.
Result: You now have two(!) wooly sheeps *and* a dung!

And that additional sheep is worth 4 muttons with the use of one indestructible tool that also doesnt take much time.

See it's a bigger difference than just the dung.

Sheering the last sheep is just awfully bad. And yes fact is, it is a common griefer tactic as continuing the sheer the sheep that someone just made wooly deprives the town of dung (and mutton pie). Additionally the good minded people will bring all berries and carrots to the shorn sheep to restart the compost cycle.. until there is none and the griefer can go full "muhahahaha" mode.

#222 Re: Main Forum » Starting to hate the game » 2018-12-13 19:09:48

CrazyEddie wrote:

The population in the game has short-run rises and falls due to the real-world day and night cycle. This will never change. When it is rising, more lineages will be created (i.e. more Eves). When it is falling, more lineages will die. This will never change.

Weeeell it depends on how the population per lineage factor is changed or kept.

Instead of spawning lots of new lineages it would also be possible to allow existing lineages to grow and shrink in numbers instead of creating lineages and wiping.

Also I'd wish in case lineages have to get removed as player numbers shrink there would be some mechanism to have the more successful or the more circumspect survive (i.e. getting the valuable new births). Right now its more or less pure RNG...

#223 Re: Main Forum » Starting to hate the game » 2018-12-13 18:11:36

Maybe we could have "guilds" or "friendship circles"... so when you get born and one of your friends is online and fertile you will become their kid. Also as option set it you will only birth friends...

So we'd have "random" lineages of random people and lineages that would only consist of a friends-circle. Advantage, have only players you trust, disadvantage less players more likely to wipe if your circle goes altogether offline.

#224 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion: Dog names » 2018-12-13 16:58:03

Dogs are uncool, it would be cool to make them cool next to their only current use which is griefing... like give them any use or make them at least a more permanent accessory to a town.

#225 Re: Main Forum » Pssst. Next Update. SPOILER WARNING! » 2018-12-13 16:42:42

Pessimistic guess, in the end it will just nerf the newcomen pump with kerosine once again and make the techtree yet more complicated to get on the equivalence of current efficiency...

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