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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#226 Re: Main Forum » irrelevant updates/content being made new/better » 2019-05-28 03:16:51

Ever built a fence from scratch, Jason? One that no one can get past without your permission? It's also not easy.  wink


Wattle and daub is a rather simple building method and I think pine panels could we re-worked in to something that captured that craft of making a wall of sticks then putting mud on it.  I just want to see the neat art created for these structures used more often, they look really cool, and it's a shame they aren't around. Really for modern people everything is hard. I've made a clay kiln and let me tell you you don't just slap some balls of clay on the ground with a round rock... and firing plates? hooo boy.... no joke. They need to stay in the stack for like a day and then half of them come out cracked if you didn't dig pure enough clay.

I enjoy the process of making the pine panels as much as anything else, but using rope that way *shudder* when I could make buckets or carts for my town. I just can't do it... that means something isn't balanced correctly.

#227 Re: Main Forum » irrelevant updates/content being made new/better » 2019-05-28 01:29:12

Another reason people don't use pine walls is because you can chop the walls down with an Ax. Every town has and ax and it's just too easy. You can't chop the bellows or the firebow or even a regular bow with an ax, but pine walls are fragile AND expensive.

It's a pity, they look really nice.

What if you could move a pine wall by digging it with a shovel? So they are easy to move around and in the early days towns could move the walls around then... when things get settled you'd add the adobe and get something that lasts longer.

Pine walls should decay rather quickly and either use much less rope (fewer than one per wall) or not use rope at all.

You could use an ax or flint on two long branches stacked together and get a wall frame, then add pine needles to the frame to get a pine wall. Then place with steaks as you do now. It will decay (to one kindling) in like 90 min... unless you add adobe to make it last.

Use a shovel to unbind it from the ground and move 'em around. Plan your town!

#228 Re: Main Forum » Big change to the way /DIE works (family skip list, Eve overload) » 2019-05-28 00:56:42

I don't think the change is live now. You become Eve faster and more often than ever it seems.

#229 Re: Main Forum » Murder, Somewhat Quanitified » 2019-05-27 23:45:45

Lets see if the new changes to /die and Eve spawning help with that last graph. No more "choosing" to be Eve just to go kill people...

#230 Re: Main Forum » Jason, I would love to play !! » 2019-05-27 23:43:17

Have you gotten a lot of curses in the past? The first time you get sent there isn't isn't for 5 hours...

#231 Re: Main Forum » What to do to attract new players? Advice for Jason that he never aske » 2019-05-27 23:40:23

The sims??

The sims is a game about lifestyle fulfillment. It's about consumerist fantasies setting up the perfect house, the perfect clothing, it's really all about *stuff* the human interactions are on the level of your average discord chat, funny, not very serious and with very little that's deep or meaningful. The Sims would never have you be *born* to another player, because having the freedom to customize your own stuff is the game's big draw.

I really hope OHOL never becomes anything like that, it just wouldn't be challenging or interesting in the same way and if you want to play the sims it's right there.

I know exactly what you mean about people falling in to the trap of thinking that violence makes a game "hardcore" people who think that someone who plays the sims and pokemon go can't be a real "gamer" I do think some people in this forum fall in to that trap, but I don't think that's what Jason is doing? Like not at all.

I just think that he's going for more depth and putting players in challenging positions which I both appreciate (when it works) and HATE (when it fails)-- I do think he's fallen for the idea that violence is the easy road to greater depth, but lots of creatives fall for that. Many deep stories have violence, but not all violence is deep.

The way the war swords worked at first was terrible. But, they have grown in to something more interesting, if less "game changing" --the language update just keeps getting better and better. I always like it, but having played with it more and more I love it.

IDK. things were really terrible a week or two ago. And people will always dislike ANY change to something they like. So having a game that people like AND changes all the time is hard. But there have been some really good changes:

-seeing the number of years people have been dead when you hover over a grave
-stacking carrots
-language

and now we have a really good change to the ways that Eve's spawn. I really hope it works.

That all said I don't think it's the little changes to the game that keep it from becoming more popular. It's the lack of promotions. We need youTube contests and basically Jason should hire some sort of promotional firm to just get more eyes on the game. If you go some of the more serious newspaper columnists and magazine editors to look at it they might write a feature on it just because it's so unique. IDK if Jason is sending out press releases I get the feeling he's depending on word of mouth which is never going to be as effective as having help from someone who knows media...

#232 Main Forum » New meta?: Take a cart of iron to a new town when the last girl dies » 2019-05-27 23:20:33

futurebird
Replies: 1

I was a guy and the smith in a little town just getting started. I worked hard all my life but sadly at the tender age of 30 I realized that there were no more girls in our town, no more babies, it would be abandon. So rather than sadly tidy the town and bury everyone I decided to take the horse, load it with iron and set off to find some place that was ALIVE. I would give them the steel and wrought iron that I found and smelted and at lest my work would not be in vein. Perhaps they would kill me, but probably not when they saw my fabulous gifts!

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In my mind I was also thinking what if I could meet a girl in that town, and she let me name one of her kids? That would be nice... But I tried to focus on riding and avoiding snakes.

In my travels I found so many towns that had failed, I could have filled my cart with iron and tools 4 times over!

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Perhaps, if I was young enough when I found the vibrant town of my dreams, I could come back and gather all the resources!

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I could be the strange foreign hero who no one could understand, but who always came with gifts and a smile. Everyone would like me... especially the ladies... But I tried not to dream too much because as I rode on and on... I realized that I was growing old.

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Would I even find a lively town filled with people before I died?

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I kept going and just as I knew my time was close I saw the signs of a town.

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I didn't get to ride in like a hero and show them the iron. I didn't get to meet a girl and name her child. I didn't get to make another trip to bring back more riches to my new home. But, I saw a little girl in a white hat collecting wild milkweed just before I died and she stopped so I know she saw my horse.

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They will find the horse running just south of their town. They will wonder if the knife in my pack means I meant to kill. But, they will use the iron, and I hope they make many wonderful things.

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I died happy, even though I had to travel so far.

#233 Re: Main Forum » Big change to the way /DIE works (family skip list, Eve overload) » 2019-05-27 23:00:57

I'm really optimistic about this change being positive! Let's see how it works.

#234 Re: Main Forum » Controversial: Enslaving other families. » 2019-05-27 21:51:11

When your propose a game idea always think "would I put up with being on the other end of this? Or would I just quit?"

Games are wish fulfillment: why is the other person going to stick around to fulfill YOUR wish when there isn't upside for them?

#236 Re: Main Forum » What to do to attract new players? Advice for Jason that he never aske » 2019-05-27 03:39:18

I have never found anyone who taught me much of anything in game? I do a fair bit of teaching, but getting someone to teach is hard especially when you get beyond the basics. Has anyone here learned how to make an engine in game? I have taught how to make the pump... once. IDK I think some tutorials that didn't tell you everything but helped you to get started would be great. There is still a lot to learn and teach...

#237 Re: Main Forum » Controversial: Enslaving other families. » 2019-05-27 03:34:36

Why would you keep living such a life except to plot to kill the people keeping you penned up?

#238 Re: Main Forum » Newer Player, 30hrs+2weeks, Quitting » 2019-05-27 03:33:16

That's really awful. There is def an issue with players not being supportive. And making stew is one of those tasks that people just don't appreciate enough. Oh your making the pump? Cool what was that you were eating again?

Anyway. It sucks that people were so rude. I hope some of them see this post and understand that there is more to being "good" at this game than knowing a lot. You need basic interpersonal skills too. I don't care how pro you are if you are rude and will drive people away from my town I'll take the noobs over you.

#239 Re: Main Forum » New skin suggestions » 2019-05-26 16:26:57

There aren't enough black people and there are no Asians at all.

#240 Re: Main Forum » What if you stayed with one family until that family died out? » 2019-05-26 15:19:28

That's a cool idea, miskas. If you are buried with a grave stone you get tied to a family and will go to that same family every other gen if it's possible. A bit softer than what I had in mind but it would help anchor towns by having some continuity of the population.

#242 Main Forum » All artistic work is storytelling all stories are wish fulfillment » 2019-05-26 15:13:18

futurebird
Replies: 4

Story telling is the oldest human art form, it's the mother of all other forms of artistic expression. From the first hunters and gatherers who embellished and dramatized their experiences in the wild around an ancient camp fire to the video games, movies and books that we have today people have always created art to tell stories.

The statement "all stories are about wish fulfillment" bothers some people because of course some stories are very sad and dark in their content. But wishes and desires are complex. In a tragedy terrible things happen, but what makes telling and hearing such a story satisfying is that, unlike in the chaotic often meaningless series of events that make up real life, in a tragedy terrible occurrences are given significance and reverence. The hero has died, but we all know how brave she was, how she suffered, horror and destruction are given importance and weight that isn't guaranteed to exist in the real world. To tell a sad story is to say that even suffering will not be forgotten. And that is wish fulfillment.

But what about the notion that "all art is story telling?" This is probably the more controversial statement! What about abstract art? What about Duchamp and his strange urinal? What about the works that resist coherence? I would argue that the essence of telling a story is still there. Each person who interacts with a work of art makes a story and when we really love a work of art we say "this speak to me" that is, it awakens a story.

But I want to talk about video games. Video games are art. It's ridiculous that this needs to be said, but even though they have been around for nearly half a century people will still ask "are video games art?" as if this questions were not settled. The more interesting question to me is "are video game the next primary form of art? Will they take the place of film as film took the place of the theater as the theatre took the place of the campfire in the hazy past of human history?

To me, the answer to this questions is: obviously yes!

The range of emotions and creativity in games continues to expand. Games have made me laugh and cry and they have made me think as much as any great film or book. But, games, because they place the audience in an active role, present unique challenges for creators: How do you do the work of wish fulfillment without making it cheap or easy? Many game take the easy route: you are the hero, loaded with weapons with the power of the gods you crush through "enemies" with little danger to yourself. You never really die, you just loose your stuff, or have to go back a bit and try again. It's fun, and exciting but it lacks depth. But, how do you entice your audience to take on real challenges? How do you make the experience of being weak... or even of not winning be a kind of wish fulfillment? How do you give death meaning and depth?

I think that OHOL has solved a small part of this challenge. The meaning comes from your relationships and dependence on others. You may die but the projects that your started can be picked up by others. Death can have significance because when the game is at its best your care when other players die to the rather harsh world you find yourself in... so you have hope that when you die others will care. For once, getting the top level gear isn't always the focus, you want to share that gear with your family. It's exciting to see a game that unlocks this kind of artistic expression without falling back on cut scenes and tons of passive content that make "playing" the game more like a movie. You are active the whole time in this game and you create the story.

I hope that future changes to the game will nurture and preserve this aspect of play.

#243 Re: Main Forum » Other games solve a lot of these long-term problems with regular wipes » 2019-05-25 21:28:34

*sigh*

The language alone wouldn't have done it, you are right about that, but the changes to cursing and the magic sword did.

Though really it isn't "people" turning on each others but rather serial griefers finding a much easier and safe-from-repercussions outlet for their sadistic brand of "fun"

If what we were dealing with were just desperate Eve's who can't talk, that would be super interesting and it is when it happens that way, but you can't just ignore how some people "play" this game with the aim of spoiling as much as possible.

#244 Re: Main Forum » Other games solve a lot of these long-term problems with regular wipes » 2019-05-25 20:47:07

Tarr wrote:

People are going to naturally flock together when players are close either due to resource scarcity like we see now or because players like to play together. Players would rather work in a big dying city than a self contained mini area if it doesn't have people in it. No matter what mechanics are in place to try to separate players some people will always come together as this game is best enjoyed in a group environment (such as a town.) While swords and language are meant to turn people on each other we will always have the urge to come together to work towards the common good.

Very true. Though, I have not yet really felt the pinch of scarcity just yet. There are so many abandon towns to loot it almost feels like there is too much stuff not too little, it's just spread out all over the map and I guess not many players like to scavenge and rebuild.

I was just in a town all by myself with 8 stacks of iron and steel, water pump, tons of farms, everything you could need. No one was there but me. I was so sad that it was going to waste I stayed baking pies alone for the rest of my life hoping someone would find it. A man came by on a horse but I could not understand what he wanted. Maybe he'll move his family there.

#245 Re: Main Forum » What if you stayed with one family until that family died out? » 2019-05-25 20:31:49

Well add marriage at the same time (it would start a new name/lineage)

I don't see griefing as any bigger of an issue than we have now. People could still use /die and if a griefer got cursed they would not be able to come back to that family.

#246 Main Forum » What if you stayed with one family until that family died out? » 2019-05-25 20:16:52

futurebird
Replies: 9

When you are born in the game as a "Jones" you will always be born to a "Jones" woman from that point on as long as there are fertile women in the line. If there are none, you can't get back in the game for a bit and would gain a new family. This would really make people care about their family since it's your future, not only will you live in that town again, but it's the ONLY place you can live.

As the population expands more people would be added to the family this might make towns more sustainable and stable.

#247 Re: Main Forum » Other games solve a lot of these long-term problems with regular wipes » 2019-05-25 20:13:20

Jason what if you did a 180 on the concept of lineage ban and area ban and instead of always hopping around you stayed in one family until that line died out? THAT would make me very invested in seeing the family continue. To up the steaks, once your line dies out there is a 1 hour wait before your can start in a new line. So each generation would need to insure they could be born back in to that family again or face not being able to play another game directly after. If you are born a "Jones" you stay a "Jones" as long as that family exists.

People who didn't like a family could use /die. Curses would still be useful for weeding out griefers (they could not be a Jones anymore) But when the last fertile woman who is a Jones is dead you have nowhere to go for a bit.

#249 Re: Main Forum » In your opinion, what is the weakest aspect of the game? » 2019-05-25 14:41:50

Spoonwood wrote:

Griefers.  And it should be possible to curse people from outside of one's lineages.

After that is not being able to get reborn into the same spot if 4 or more fertile females on the same server.


This would be my 2nd pick. But, I put it second because I don't know if arguing for these kinds of changes is going against the "game philosophy" or not. I would love to be able to visit my towns again, and it's a little more possible now. Only need to wait 3 hours. But most towns don't last that long. I think 1 hour is a long enough wait for people who want to come back.

#250 Re: Main Forum » Help your town last forever* with stacks of wood! » 2019-05-25 14:33:55

Spoonwood wrote:

Stanchion kits or pump beam kits?

I meant pump and beam.

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