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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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#251 Re: Main Forum » My current issues with One hour One Life » 2020-01-07 16:33:27
I confess that I have not thought too much when I have exposed this idea
Currently the player who runs / die several times in less than 1 hour is because he is looking for very specific conditions of birth
On the main server, if we let this happen, we will get the massive / die we are currently having
but in a low population server this is different ...
In a low population server, you can create a city race selection button or EVE selection ... because it does not affect families and lineages too much
#252 Re: Main Forum » My current issues with One hour One Life » 2020-01-07 15:41:27
Idea: what if when a player executes the / die command more than 2 times in a row, does the system automatically place it on a low-population server?
#253 Re: Main Forum » My current issues with One hour One Life » 2020-01-07 13:01:49
JonySky wrote:Applying this logic (illogical in a survival game) should we create 3 buttons before respawn?
- 1 button: born as EVE
- 2 button: born with the XX race
- 3 button: born in a city with high chances of survivalI think there need to exist conditions on such buttons since it's a multiplayer game. An Eve button without something like players needing to live to 60, or maybe have a high genetic score comes as a better condition, sounds all too dangerous to getting exploited by griefer Eves.
JonySky wrote:If this were implemented ... get ready to have the most boring game ever!
Jony, I basically have as close to having such buttons in low pop servers. Especially on the one I usually play on. It's probably less than a minute, and like one /die or two to make some other choice to force playing as Eve (or at least has been... I had an experience that suggested a bug with womb cooldown or something). Or I could walk or ride to someone else's town and set up those sorts of conditions. Or I could insist that I only go to deserts were I black in a life or something like that. The lowpop game doesn't have deficits in potential interest because of lack of choice.
Such a choice screen would also come as a matter of choice to even select in the first place. I don't advocate removing the basic 'login' button where players get thrown into random situations, with them almost always being the child of someone else. I don't see how some players choosing such would ruin the experience of players who never use /die.
JonySky wrote:These players are just looking for an easy survival game and I think this is incompatible.
No family has lasted longer than the Boots. I don't foresee any family lasting longer than the Boots were the buttons you described got put into the game. And I think the Boots family didn't last a week, let alone a month, or a few months. There exist many conditions which make this game into not being an easy survival game.
I agree that a selection button before spawn can partially solve this problem ... but it should never be as effective as it is / die
/ die is negative for the rest of the players (I know it doesn't affect the mothers, but if all their children do / die ... goodbye with their lineage)
/ die cannot be counteracted in any way
Spoonwood: the option you have adopted is the correct one (use a low population server)
Nor do I expect the indefinite survival of cities, I have not really thought about it when I talk about this problem ... I only think about the helplessness of many players when they check their genealogical tree and see 15 baby suicides
#254 Re: Main Forum » My current issues with One hour One Life » 2020-01-07 11:36:18
I wholeheartedly agree with Slinky about making your own town being a lot of fun. There exist reasons that some people have who resist that move, but I'm starting to think that such issues wouldn't bother you Starblazer. If Slinky's instructions on how to play low pop aren't clear for some reason that I can't think of, check #7 comment that I made in the other thread in case it's clearer. If you come onto the discord, low pop players would probably invite you to their towns also or suggest other groups you might play with.
Starblazer wrote:All of my work now being held to 2 maps all because of, not a game feature or mistake made by players, but because of other players wanting to be a certain race at a certain village.
Not sure this would be a (serious) problem if a choice screen existed for something like current generation of the town, or the race of a player's character, even if limited to advanced players.
Starblazer wrote:Eventually it would stop and my little village dies because the people did not want to play the game how it was supposed to be played.
Alright, but blaming the playerbase writ large is useless (and your next comment suggests that you weren't doing that Starblazer). They won't change and they get to choose how they play in the end. Using /die is not griefing, at least it's not likely to get used to intentionally destroy lineages or make civilization building more difficult most of the time when it gets used. Sigmen's point above should get noted, because runner babies come as more destructive to lineage survival than SIDs (Sudden Infant Deaths). There's a mechanic called 'womb cooldown' which runner babies exploit.
It's not reasonable to expect people to play a game where they get forced into limitations that they don't want to play with. It's also not reasonable to expect people to play a game where their probability of success is already low to their perception. And enough people use /die, I think, because they believe that their probability of success low if they don't use /die. It's also not reasonable to expect people to play a game with unnecessary hassle. And expected unnecessary hassle comes as another reason, probably, why people use /die.
Applying this logic (illogical in a survival game) should we create 3 buttons before respawn?
- 1 button: born as EVE
- 2 button: born with the XX race
- 3 button: born in a city with high chances of survival
If this were implemented ... get ready to have the most boring game ever!
This is what is being achieved by using extremely / die
These players are just looking for an easy survival game and I think this is incompatible.
#255 Re: Main Forum » My current issues with One hour One Life » 2020-01-07 10:33:14
long ago / die was used to teleport to other cities immediately
Then it began to be used to appear as EVE
And now it is used to change race ...
/ die is broken for a long time and I have always believed that it ruins the experience of other players and their lineages
This is a survival game ... we shouldn't be able to select either the race or the city where we live.
/ die is exactly the same as a family selection button where you want to be born
And you know how much fun ... you can't counter anything ...
If you are of a certain race, or live in a city of difficult survival, or just your baby wants to be EVE ... you will get a lot of suicidal babies ....
So are the players in this game ... "survivors" hahahahaha
/ die should be limited to 1 or 2 lives every 40 minutes
#256 Re: Main Forum » Bountiful Berry Bystander and the Blushing Bowman » 2020-01-02 16:18:03
Legs wrote:This town is still killing it. The berrymunchers love me and feeding sheep is easy. Stay jealous.
?? I passed through that town yesterday and it was dead.
possibly there weren't enough berries, jajajajaja
#257 Re: Main Forum » What needs do you satisfy by playing this game? » 2019-12-24 12:56:52
Morti.... +1
#258 Re: Main Forum » What do you guys think should be next focus for the game? » 2019-12-24 10:45:40
Spoonwood wrote:Jony has good ideas. Also, not likely to happen ideas.
Not likely to happen ideas are my favorite kind of ideas.
I also don't trust any changes to be made with all this
It's sad because I think the game would improve significantly
It would not be necessary to penalize the players to prevent cities from evolving so fast ... we could implement a winter so that the crops die (food shortages) could also create various types of clothing for winter and summer ... it would take build buildings not to die of cold (NOT HUNGER ... ONLY COLD)
Shared transport allows us to move an entire population to another city more quickly ... even wars take place with these new implementations
Rivers would be the new roads to unite villages, forest fires or other natural disasters should be a reason for collaboration between players (if implemented correctly) and it would not be necessary to force racist mechanics
Anyway I think that OHOL will become a simulator of cooking recipes ...
sad
#259 Re: Main Forum » What do you guys think should be next focus for the game? » 2019-12-24 07:25:48
Improve the game engine to:
Add Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter
Add shared transport
Dynamic events (new trees grow, new wells appear, areas that become desertic, mass animal migrations, forest fires)
Rivers and seas
Diseases and medications
Balancing the technological tree (if we have airplanes we should not have an adobe forge)
Remove the limited skill boxes
#260 Re: Main Forum » How do you feel with the game nowdays » 2019-12-23 10:40:08
I have long since quit the game ... The game has become very repetitive and boring for me, maybe in the future I will play it again, but now I don't see the game making sense.
The cycle of cities is ALWAYS the same ... (water runs out, end of story)
Jobs in cities are also repetitions one after another
The limitation of skills has increased this feeling of repeating tasks
I am a player of Batlefield, age of empires, RUST, DayZ, League of legends for many years and I have never had the feeling of repeating the same thing in every game.
Many updates have been made this year, and I appreciate Jason's work, but the game is far from being "addictive" because sooner or later you get bored of always doing the same, or living the same stories.
The game engine is very limited and that also limits problem solving and adding new content.
For example the implementation of the weather, natural disasters, diseases, shared vehicles ... etc.
The network code for months is demonstrating varied problems and has never been definitively solved
This generates "patches and provisional solutions" similar to the current PVP system.
Most updates that he had this year are based on writing options (/ love .. curse xx ... own this ... or the recent hierarchy ...) writing in this game should be used only to communicate and not to perform varied tasks (every time we write a command we lose 6 months of life)
Some time ago I proposed a menu of circular options as in RUST ... remember that the games are international and for everyone (we do not oblige anyone to have to learn a thousand commands to play OHOL)
All games have errors, bugs, problems in the netcode, implementations of updates that are deficient or not properly tested, limitations in the game engine ... but the difference with OHOL is that it is not being solved as it should.
Example:
New update - We will implement new gestures: force the player to write commands ...
Result: it works ...
New update - War / peace: will force the player to write
New update - Maps: will force the player to write again
New update - will implement hierarchies and force the player to write the command again
With this we have saved the implementation of a circle of options and will remain so until we have to write so many commands to play that the community begins to complain
With the PVP, the shared vehicles and with a multitude of mechanics something similar happens ... not improve or a temporary patch will be created to solve the problem
Another great example is the weeks of balance in the game to force us to play in a rift ... until the numbers of OHOL players did not go down to historical lows, it was not decided to change strategy ... so no ... that not well.
Although 1000 more objects are added, they will feel bad if not done with some consistency ... (cooking in a fireplace and being able to drive a plane is absurd)
Today we still don't know where OHOL is heading ... I only see a lot of updates without a clear objective.
Killer robots ?, nuclear bombs ?, industrialization ?, where are we going?
#261 Re: Main Forum » Another Reason Why I Won't Be Playing on BS2 » 2019-12-10 17:15:42
I'm already sharpening my knife ... I can't wait to kill monarchs!
Creating any advanced object in OHOL has become a nightmare ... the skill boxes and the limitation of races is odious for an advanced player ... from now on I will devote myself to raising wild pigs and killing monarchs!
#262 Re: Main Forum » Jason, we would need some rewamp on transportation methods » 2019-12-05 17:52:44
I don't think cars needed for roads will work.
That said, the balancing of cars and planes hasn't felt right ever and I think needs redone, so Pein has a good point.
Because cars and airplanes have been out of the evolutionary logic of the game
We have cars but we are cooking in a fireplace.
I have always believed that it was a big mistake in the game to implement these articles
When they were implemented I felt a little cheated
Here I saw that Jason is not going to follow a normal evolutionary order and we were going to have magic items to hide the engine deficiencies
The next "logical" step would have been to create shared transport for the migration of cities (for example Western Carruages) ... but as the engine does not allow it, it was decided to create a car, which is faster and more complicated to create, but not there is more real benefit
#263 Re: Main Forum » Idea: one kill per life? » 2019-12-03 17:28:57
Jason, I don't understand you ...
People have long complained about griefers and murderers and you argued that murders were necessary in OHOL
You also incorporated war swords and get genocides from entire cities
People complained and you justified war swords as "rich gaming experiences"
Now, someone has sent you an email and you decide to limit the murder to a single victim for life ...
I don't know if you comment on these ideas in order to create controversies or you just don't know where OHOL is going ...
If you want some advice ... I would concentrate on improving the game engine,
concentrate on allowing new mechanics such as shared transport (which the community has been requesting for a long time)
It is also more important to improve the current netcode to avoid jumps and client / server desynchronization
#264 Re: Main Forum » We're getting wine but could have more » 2019-11-27 14:33:32
Sadly, feasts didn't make it in before I left for vacation.
Next week, though.
For now, you just have a nice-looking empty table to build!
Jason, have you thought about adding presses to make wine?
to create clothes we need looms ... why not use wine presses?
the process would be a little more realistic
#265 Re: Main Forum » We're getting wine but could have more » 2019-11-26 17:55:13
My land (Catalunya) is a country with a strong tradition of good wines
Traditionally the wine was obtained with presses and barrels or with large open barrels and many people stepping on the grapes
Making wine with a spoon is very strange and unrealistic
#266 Re: Main Forum » Problem: No Buildings For Farmers » 2019-11-25 17:02:32
JonySky wrote:2.- Crops with different results (currently 100% effective)
Not entirely true since we have a 20 % risk of getting a pumpkin for every squash plant
true! ... I was thinking about carrots and berries
we must have the possibility of increasing the percentage with some objects!
#267 Re: Main Forum » EZ mode » 2019-11-25 16:59:30
It is not necessary to nerf the food to give emotion to the game ... (this only causes to eat more and have less time to perform tasks)
There is a lot of food in OHOL, reduce it with pests or with extreme weather
this is being talked about in another post ....
#268 Re: Main Forum » Problem: No Buildings For Farmers » 2019-11-25 10:56:35
There is no reason to implement greenhouses without first implementing:
1.- Pests (insects that eat berries, for example)
2.- Crops with different results (currently 100% effective)
3.- Extreme climatology (heat waves or intense cold that affect crops)
4.- insecticides
5.- fertilizer for better crop production
I would love to see an improvement in the aspect of agriculture!
#269 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: way stones » 2019-11-21 20:55:11
Jony, I hear you that it was frustrating, but that "story" sounds like an excellent one to me. It's supposed to be very very hard. You had to think on your feet, and you ended up failing, in the end. Success doesn't taste sweet if there aren't failures along the way. And most importantly, you had to interact with a bunch of people in order to solve this puzzle. Some of them didn't cooperate.
This doesn't feel all that different from a quest in Zelda, where you have to go to see this guy to get a chicken, but he won't give you a chicken unless you first bring him some milk, but the dairy farmer is sick and needs medicine. The difference here is that no one authored the quest. It emerged naturally from the situation. Another big difference is that every quest in Zelda can be easily solved if you just keep playing. Here, there's no guarantee that a solution is even possible, currently. These aren't hand-designed NPCs that will always cooperate with you. They are real people. You might bring the dairy farmer medicine, and find that they have changed their mind, or that they have died.
Essentially, here's what this game is: A collective roguelike.
By "collective," I mean that the "player" playing the game isn't an individual person, but a whole group of people working together and spread over many hours and generations.
The "player" in this game is a village or family line. The death or failure condition is when the village or family line dies out. The village is the organism.
It works this way because "death" of an individual player always happens on a fixed time-line. A life is a life. Surviving to 60, after you get the hang of it, is almost always possible. However, surviving to 60 in isolation is pointless. The point comes from the survival of the group.
If the group survives 12 hours or 24 hours or 48 hours, that's a really big deal, and a big success. That is the equivalent to making it to the last level in Spelunky or some other roguelike.
And your own individual failure doesn't mean your village failed in the end. There will be other smart, motivated players who will continue trying to solve the problem you tried to solve.
And I'm sure you learned something from this experience, so next time, you will be even better at it. And when you finally save your town by making a rubber gasket someday, it will feel amazing.
To look at it another way, saving the town with a Newcomen pump is an expert activity. It should be very challenging for experts. Previously, any expert would just "go through the motions" and make the pump. After making one pump, they could make 100s of pumps in future lives, with no issue. That is boring. Going through the motions isn't even really playing a game. That's the reason expert players get bored and quit, because the challenge is gone.
The challenge is back.
Jason, I couldn't answer you before
As you know I am a long time player and I know how your game works
I know that once a single player could do it all in one life
I spent a few days on a secondary server creating my own city completely alone
and I also know that this has changed and that now my job is only a small part of many jobs in a family with many more individuals.
you tell me that having changed all this I had to interact with other players and that is good
It is good if you get what you are looking for ...
But it was 10 minutes before finding someone willing to do it ... and at the end of the process the griefer soiled the note with a "this note is crap" and left without more ...
10 minutes lost, 10 minutes in a 60-minute game ...
It is good to collaborate with other players to get something, of course! ... but it is frustrating to spend 10 minutes to get nothing
Is the frustration good in a game? ... I guess in small doses it can be ... but in OHOL the dose of frustration is huge and continuous
First frustration is that you will almost never see the fruit of your work
Second frustration is that when you want to perform a complicated task you will not have the skills to finish it
Third frustration is that your children decide to commit suicide or starve to death
Fourth frustration is that you don't have all the materials to achieve your goal
Fifth frustration is when you are using an object and someone takes it without returning it
Sixth frustration is looking for an object in the city disorder
I can continue but I don't think it's necessary ...
there are too many frustrations in a 60 minute game
You tell me that I'm sure I learned something with this experience ... and you tell me that next time I will be better at it ... and that one day I will succeed and save my family
Jason, I honestly didn't learn anything, I only saw the same disorder and the same type of player as in other lives
people who are working is their tasks without caring about the tasks of others
people looking for the destruction of the town (griefers)
people who do not look at the real needs of the people
also many new players who are still learning to play
I was lucky that this boy helped me to make paper and nothing else
there is nothing else I could do to make my mission of getting the newcomen bomb a success is pure luck ... just that, chance
If my city has run out of water, only the chance of having the right people can save the city
this eliminates the figure of the hero, or the savior of the city and creates another frustration
Anyway, why have I explained this story? ...
to visualize all the problems of current exploration and commerce in OHOL, and why:
1. So that finding a resource and trading with it does not become an eternal task (encourage trade)
2. so that players do not end up frustrated by all the things they cannot do and disappear from the game
you propose a new map system ...
I comment that this is complicated, and should not complicate it, you should make it simple and agile for it to work
the system that you propose to me I can replace it by mounting 3 pieces of road towards the city every certain boxes
This is a task that I can do since I was 3 years old (the one that proposes no) and I can create it with resources that I find in the middle of the map without any special tool (the one that proposes no)
because the solution of the 3 boxes is not done, because it is frustrating and boring
because the system you propose will not be used ... because it is frustrating and tedious
Finally you are the one who rules here, I'm just a player who gives ideas, just like everyone else
I'm not here to argue, just to enjoy your game
But if you don't want to make more updates than anyone else ends up using, you should value more the opinions of your customers ... (the players)
and if you doubt the opinion of your players, Try doing the same as me, maybe you have better luck!
P.S. My city died 5 generations after me
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=5524843
#270 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: way stones » 2019-11-21 18:00:00
Way stone makers kit:
--1 cart with 4 blocks
--Backpack with:
----Map back to town
----Chisel
----MalletThis allows you to head out and plant four way stones pointing back to your town.
Fill another cart with blocks and repeat.
In one lifetime, you could easily plant dozens of way stones pointing back to your town, making your town impossible NOT to find.
Keep in mind that in your city you should have: horses, carriage, chisel and mallet, paper, pencil.
My experience tells me that you can start putting stones at age 35 (leaving your city, not putting stones)
You will have 25 years (25 minutes) to locate another family with resources, place the information on the map and on the stone, you must return to your hometown and inform your family members of everything (which surely will not listen or interest you)
#271 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: way stones » 2019-11-21 17:24:14
JonySky wrote:Jason, let me explain the life I just lived, to analyze the current problems with commerce and cities
I was born in a family (brown skin) that had all the tools created but we were missing a newcomen pump
it was not still life or death, there was still water, but it was necessary to start creating the bombCan't get the rubber up and you can't use any water to even make the attachments for the newcomen engine, let alone consume it for an oil rig, let alone complete an engine. Families clearly need a few buckets of water in reserve locally somewhere before even trading, or smiths need to run all around getting those buckets to get that water.
You think waystones will fail, a lot of people think belltowers will have more of an impact now to help this along, but they currently take 25 hours minimum to get up, which at 30 minutes per generation, is 50 generations, and at 20 minutes per generation, that's 75 generations. If belltowers were scaled back so that the 2nd-6th stages took 1 hour instead of 3 hours, and gold was available to everyone, it's 15 hours to get one up after the first stage gets laid. That's more in the range of 30-45 generations since the belltower gets laid. Alright, that's probably still too much time, isn't it? So scale back stages 2-6 to half an hour. That's 25-38 generations. Nope. I don't think that's fast enough, is it?
Alright, what if the belltower system was that stages 2-6 could immediately get put on the belltower after the first stage. That's a little more than hours. So, 20-30 generations maybe for belltowers to get up. Which I think seems like just enough time.
Any thoughts on that concept Jony?
I think the bell towers will be used to obtain cities with different types of races ... but it will not generate trade
I also think the griefers will take advantage of this ...
The work of the merchant must be a task for a player and we cannot depend on a campaign to trade with an item
There must be one (or several) people dedicated to trade,
the cities have a lot of disorder and if the figure of the merchant and the trading post does not exist, there will be no trade
I see the whole work of commerce as a task for 2 or 3 people and a place dedicated to trade
1.- the explorer: look for distant families and valuable resources for the city, also draw a map with all locations, also be responsible for transmitting it to future generations or family
2.- the merchant: Thanks to the map generated by the explorer, it transports the objects to the foreign family and exchanges it for others that are needed
3.- The translator: help the merchant or the explorer to talk with the foreign family
The trade must be done in a place enabled and prepared for this, this place must provide security for change and tranquility to be properly understood
In the story I have explained before, I have shown several problems with trade:
1.- Trade needs are only known to players who try to create objects such as engines or advanced tools
"Unfortunately" the game is full of new players who do not visualize the real problems, nor the real needs of the cities, this forces the merchant to have high experience in the game (forces 2 tasks in 1) and we do not have enough boxes of skills for 2 tasks.
2.- It is very difficult to communicate with your relatives to perform any cooperative task
3.- the coexistence with the griefers will always exist and that makes daily tasks difficult
4.- you need to create many things to trade correctly, but there is not enough time
5.- The maps must be agile and simple to create and use, because an explorer must find families and resources quickly and must be able to return to his hometown, he must also be able to create paper with the necessary translations to be understood.
The people of this forum are people with experience in OHOL, I ask everyone to try the experience of looking for another family and try to get rubber, sulfur, etc ... and to verify the problems they encounter to perform this task
If we want to promote trade, we must exolle Jason that he must simplify this process so that it is carried out naturally
#272 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: way stones » 2019-11-21 14:36:23
Jason, let me explain the life I just lived, to analyze the current problems with commerce and cities
I was born in a family (brown skin) that had all the tools created but we were missing a newcomen pump
it was not still life or death, there was still water, but it was necessary to start creating the bomb
my mother (it was not new) assigned me this task and as soon as I could hold something in my hand I started working at the pump
first I had to ask someone to create the tower of stones since I was still too small to lift stones and luckily a city boy helped me with that
I finished the wooden top quickly and at that moment I could finish the metal parts of the pump
when I finished this part of the newcomen bomb I was about 27 years old and started having children
I told one of my daughters (who was not new) that we had the mission of finishing the newcomen pump
but after a while I saw her in the city with a child in her arms and cultivating
I understood that it would be a lonely task
This is when I decided to create a paper notes to request sulfide from other families
when I tried to put the bowl on the fire I had no more skills left and I spent about 5 minutes looking for someone
so that I only put the bowl in the ashes ... this was very frustrating and tedious
I could only make one note and I decided to write the message "i need sulfure"
It turns out that at this point I could not write anything on paper either because this also requires skills (really?)
I was another 5 minutes looking for a relative who wrote the message "i need sulfure"
finally a woman (a griefer) wrote on my paper "this note is rubbish" ...
As you can see, only with this part of the story you can already verify that this does not work ... but let's continue ...
I decided not to get angry and I set out to travel to find someone to sell me or change the precious sulfur (although I didn't understand myself)
by then I was about 40 years old
My city had no horses and I no longer had skills for that ... (hell if I could not even write a note, how could I make a horse with a car ?? !!)
I started traveling west, there I found 3 early (dead) camps with no one
and at 15K I found a pale-skinned family that had not started camp for a long time but had already sheep ...
logically I didn't have sulfur
This family understood me perfectly (because language does not affect them, I think this is a mistake)
I decided to leave there but I was 53 years old and I knew that even if I found another city, I could never come back with the sulfur
I died looking for other families totally alone and away and in the middle of nowhere
I would like you to try the Jason experience, try to do something similar to this and you will realize that the game is currently very unbalanced in many aspects
#273 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: way stones » 2019-11-21 12:05:22
The problem with this is that trade should not depend on other generations, it should not be a generational job
The trade must be more agile (if we want to promote it)
The figure of the explorer must be able to find other cities and be able to show it to the next generations
If this task must be done by 2 or more people, it will rarely be used
#274 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: way stones » 2019-11-21 08:19:57
Anyway, if the exploration and use of maps is to be done through markers, I recommend something more comfortable for everyone (remember that we have 60 minutes to trade)
Use a blank map, a pencil and a knife ...
He will use the knife to make a mark on the firs
and with the map and the pencil in his hand he will write / mark (for example)
I think this option is more comfortable and agile for everyone
#275 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: way stones » 2019-11-21 08:09:51
I see it interesting, but I must tell you that I see it complicated for explorers, and I'm afraid it will be one of those things that is rarely used
As I have understood well, an explorer will need a chisel, a shovel, a mallet, a blank map, a pencil ...
Maybe it can be used for the creator of roads, but not for the explorer who is the one who should make maps
Also days ago I commented that the maps based on markers are not practical
I'm sorry Jason, I think this won't work