a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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oh, i had an unusually hard time trying to start a new camp, i probably didn't notice this was why.
I still think plains and swamps should be optimal temp, so sick of dangerous animals.
That was the naros, two families with similar names right now. My family line still appears to be fine, though we're down to only one of them still surviving, hopefully a lot of new shit about to show up in 5 minutes or so.
Edit: Made gen 20!
This is easily the longest family line i've had any meaningful credit for, though it made it down to only one of my 6 daughters carrying the line some time ago. It appears the family is really solid though.
edit again: appears update killed them
twin girls died with no kids, most recent elder deaths are 10 years ago, all adult deaths are Eves. And i'm doing other things now so missed a rare chance to play as Eve or in an Eve camp ![]()
sad, i finally get a family line that could go on a long time.
I think a vitamin system would be too abstracted and not really improve upon the current yum system, but I do like the idea of encouraging a more nuttitious, balanced diet.
Why not use food groups instead? Meat, dairy, vegetables, fruits, and grains. Simple foods would only satisfy one food group. Prepared foods, like pies and stews could give you multiple bonuses. Ideally, you would want to have five or six food categories, so people wouldn't be able to just eat one pie to get all the available nutrition bonuses in one bite.
More advanced towns would have more food options available for each category, as well as more combo foods, so it would get easier to max out your yum.
When Jason made the Yum system he said he's never like nutrition systems in games, even in a game he made with a nutrition system.
yeah I couldn't find the stdout.txt file, just the readme file that mentions it.
Is there a place I can upload my wild bug game? The wild bug game was 70MB.
But next time I'll watch that and then actually quitto getyou the small file.
As some of you know, i am quite the anti-Malthusian. And i'm always distressed by how many of my family lines die for various reasons.
This time, I was born into the 4th gen. Berries were out, there wasn't other food. I hadn't made a home marker.
My I saw my big sis in the wilds, and she said there was an abandoned camp with lots of berries to the SW, i didn't find it anywhere, varying between signs of life and new spawn.
I have a daughter in the wilds, and decide to head for home. I had to abandon another on the way.
anyway, I made it home, losing my daughter right before, but I found her again out looking for squash seeds.
Daughter and I come back, and with her help, I had a whopping SIX daughters live to childbearing age, and was the only woman in my family of my generation who had girls live to adulthood, at least 2 lines and I suspect 3 survived to great great great.
I was the kind grandmother who kept trying to make you all eat stew.
How is the camp doing, if anyone's been there? My oldest daughter Claire was amazing btw, she did a lot of childcare so I could get stew going, and took over when i got old with an infant.
wow, it being a 7 day cull makes it especially incredible how little people travel out of civs. If I run off as a girl I'm usually seeing newly spawning areas and no sign of human life well before i'm old enough to give birth.
I'm glad I understand how this works now, because it's definitely a good reason to try to get a chain going before going out alone in the wilds.
my memory from when it was added (for a while it was the center of human made objects, and there was little decay, so basically you spawned in huge cities where nothing needed to be done all the time) is that it starts at 0,0 and just does always get larger. I don't think a normal server reset should restart the spiral though, cause then wouldn't ancient walls and empty clay pits been everywhere etc?
Or did it change now so anything human eyes don't see for hours resets? [well, displayed on a humans screen, obviously]
even so, you'd think that would mean a new spiral would run into all sorts of land people have been to. Though, how lose to civs ones finds spawning rabbits is always surprising.
may be we can use the trash pit! a mechanic, that I haven't seen used much!
Yeah with the iron scarcity and some other rebalancing you rarely see them now. More things also despawn with time now though.
Back in the day (so, like 8 months ago lol) people used them for cages etc and they were all over the place, but at the time fewer things despawned and i believe iron respawned.
There is a surprisingly weak wiki section on Yum bonus.
Yesterday, when i was running in the wilds as a little girl, I got yellow fever. I feared i was dead, however, standing in the badlands with a yum bonus of 5 or 6 I made it out with 4 of 5 pips of food. So not only did i survive, it mostly only cost me standing around 35 seconds and didn't come near to threatening me.
Does anyone know how yellow fever effects yum, if at all? It appears I still had all the bonus food points, and they weren't taken away at all.
If so, that's a damn good argument for yum chaining in the wilds.
[I also really like the idea of a yellow fever vaccine, that is made from the blood of an infected person.]
which is generally everyone who died before out birth or rebirth as we lose name data on disconnect
How do you mean? I've been having the disconnect on startup bug still, and sometimes I have to restart the game 5 times before it works, and often i get named when i'm lagged out. I feel like i havent seen myself named forever.
Though, Jason was able to look at a game where i had a severe disconnect problem later on in the game, and i guess the server didn't know I disconnected...
I had a Chinese mom yesterday. She was kind. I probably should have stayed around to teach her, since she said she was pretty new. But I decided to run off and try to start a new camp. I did at least make pies to run off with, so my mom saw that.
I ended up only having one daughter who stayed, and she had no kids stay, but my daughter was a noob and i kindly taught her important things, like making fire.
She was noob enough she cut my long straight shaft for firewood at least once, i think twice lol. I saw it the second time, then explained when holding the next one. She also saw me make some pottery, and do some basic agriculture. Live to be 32, which isn't bad because we were in a really treacherous spot for mosquitoes and wolves. She ultimately starved right next to berry bushes.
Check this out:
I was Kim in this game, and actually started a new camp that was possibly successful, but my niece got a last name somehow, and it connects her to a different family. Does this happen if you are named by a woman holding you who isn't your parent?
I've spent quite a few lives trapping rabbits. Honestly, I'm never going to be someone who does a lot of high tech stuff, it's not who i am in real life, i can operate machines but my interests are in agriculture animal husbandry, etc.
I'm always trying to figure out what's best to do to help a family survive, and giving the women backpacks is a good option. i mean. people still inexplicably starve all the time, which shouldn't happen with a backpack and pies, but there's not more I can do about that, than giving a player a backpack with a pie in it.
As a man recently i've been more often taking a horse cart to gather iron and look for lost civs.
But if I'm in the city, I usually spend much of my life just making sure things don't collapse, and i end up taking care of the berry bushes past childhood a lot, which is just annoying.
I end up doing a lot of composting, or delivering a lot of grain to the kitchen, etc. Basically kids tasks no one else is doing.
I have played as a baker quite a bit as well.
Recently I've been playing as a stewmaker, including growing the crops. It's surprisingly hard to get people to eat stew, but i'm going to try harder. It's a lot less stressful having one task, and as long as there are stewpots, none of the good players will starve in a food crisis...
...but still, unless i leave camp, I just can't stop myself from spending a bunch of time keeping up the gooseberry bushes. I'm gonna try harder to get my kids to do that, because kids who are living among the berry bushes should be at no risk of starvation, and i have terrible survival rates.
Maggie1Life wrote:I think of dumpling. Rice is rather hard to farm because it technically grows in water
Growing rice in standing water is not required. But rice can tolerate it while most weeds and insects cannot. Its a weed/pest control method. Has some other synergies as well. But its not required.
As for asian elements, good luck. Its virtually impossible to get jason to add anything reasonable or sensible. If youre lucky he'll add chopsticks. But they'll be deadly with no cooldown.
I was going to add this. They only grow rice in water in some areas. and generally they've done all sorts of landscape alterations, like terraces on hills with walls and whatnot, so it's not usually just growing in a natural swamp, it's somewhere humans are letting the water in and out of.
There's no reason you couldn't just have it grow like wheat. However, another simple option for rice would be that it can be planted in a shallow tilled row but takes two water, possibly another water added after it sprouts. With how scarce iron is, and how much time we spend composting, it would be nice to have a type of agriculture that used more water and less iron and soil. This is the basic premise of growing rice in water, that you haul less soil and use less iron and labor keeping it free of weeds.
Also, this would be more complicated, but rice farmers often rely on fish production within the fields for pest control and fertilization and protein to eat. [this practice is less common due to chemical fertilizers and pesticides, and its having negative health results for farmers.]
A simple way to incorporate this would just be to have a fish there after you cut the rice, and the fish has to be skewered out of the pond before you can replant.
BTW, the agriculture in this game now is relatively similar to traditional Chinese agriculture anyway. It pretty much had to be to match Jason's vision for the game, since the Chinese fed a huge population without soil degradation, and the hope is that areas don't inherently have to ultimately be abandoned due to resource loss.
The Chinese (and Japanese and Koreans) traditionally gathered a huge amount of soil and organic matter from the wilds, i believe with application rates usually around a ton an acre. As well as very intensive composting.
They also had an extraordinary amount of canals, which would be cool, but would be hard to implement. Pulled a lot of soil up out of them, and they served as the main highways.
While rice would be cool, because I want to see agriculture diversified further [though I know other people are tired of food updates], i don't think there's any inherent reason to pander to Asians. There aren't any meaningful reasons the things in the game are foreign to them.
fragilityh14 wrote:i still want to be able to use them as a resource. Lots of fertility in a corpse. both could be an alternative method of making soil, but also grind them into powder.
I really want bodies to have a purpose later on as a lot of cultures have used bodies for various types of medicines and fertilizers.
It makes me sad the game is flat, because in China there's this area, or at least used to be, "The Gravelands", where they farm on grave mounds, where they've put thousands of years worth of ancestors. I keep wanting to be able to do that, but there's no obvious way i can think of to add height to this game.
Still, a buried grave could turn into a tilled row after an epoch or something. Then the one use iron is worth it, as you'd otherwise have to til it.
as always, everyone is undervaluing time and labor, and also, just trying to enjoy the game. The idea is definitely not that we eat the same thing all the time and have no food variety.
The bonus and having to eat less frequently are worthwhile. Also, at least some of us don't want to wait til we're at a couple of pips to eat. I remain convinced this is why so many people die of starvation with so much food around.
The real problem here, though, is that nothing can be compared to mutton pie because it's a necessary byproduct of making compost, so if you have soil and are staying alive, you have mutton and wheat. The solutions to this would either be A) make poop come from sheered sheep [which creates a similar problem with the scarcity of wool, in that it is now a byproduct you have a bunch of] or B) multiple ways to make compost.
also i thought there were 5 corn per corn plant, and 2 bites of popcorn per bowl, i'm not one to be obsessed with doing the math in this game, and I'm also not sure how one calculates the value of eating a carrot compared to its value for compost or mutton pie. It only takes two carrots to get like 21 soil. It's hardly going to kill a civ if some of them are eaten instead of using for that purpose.
The problem is most definitely people who accomplish nothing in their lives and griefers, not the dietary choices of people who eat diverse foods. One productive player seriously produces a bunch of food in a lifetime, if they are devoting themselves to that.
i still want to be able to use them as a resource. Lots of fertility in a corpse. both could be an alternative method of making soil, but also grind them into powder.
I like to play carter - and if bowls of stew could go in carts I'd definitely share them around town. It's really weird to me that some bowls can go in the cart but others can't. I recently plastered a house and was super annoyed when I realized bowls of quicklime or plaster can't be carted.
There's a post on the OHOL suggestions subreddit asking Jason to add at least one more stacking item each week. We need more cartable bowls of things, too.
Oh, another thing I've started doing.. force feeding people yum foods, then telling them what they just ate. If greifers can do it to destroy yum chains, I can do it to increase them. I usually do this with a bowl of greenbeans or popcorn. I gave stew to one of my adult daughters recently, and she was really surprised by how many pips she got. I think that made a convert to the benefits of stew.
Oh man, i should totally just go around feeding people, and mentioning yum. you're right it's unlikely any noob hanging out eating berries is going to be upset about it. Though, greenbeans are the only ones with enough in the bowl for that to be super practical (besides pies where much would surely be wasted), which comes back to our stacking issue.
Something to remember here is food isn't actually that scarce. People worry about overpopulation, but i an agricultural village that's only of bad players.
in my life i produced the 4 bowls of stew, did 3 sisters farming, as well as making a fair amount of compost and spreading soil, taking care of quite a lot of berries, and doing all sorts of odds and ends as necessary.
I'm not a particularly efficient eater, and i clearly produced massively more than a lifetime worth of food.
People who haven't yum chained don't actually understand how worthwhile it is. Maybe not if you're spending all game doing it. But a green bean bowl can be eaten from 6 times. if everyone only uses that as part of a yum chain of 6, it's ultimately produced 5 over the amount it's normally worth.
A bite of popcorn is what, 1/10th of a corn plant, so 1/10 a cup of soil, and 1/10 a cup of water, one use of hoe? and we have fire powered wells now and compost produces what, 21 bowls of soil out of what, 4 1/3rd cups of soil and, and 3 1/3rd cups of water and 2 1/3rd uses of iron implements? AND you get 4 mutton pies per compost batch. If anything, the main argument against other foods is that mutton pies are a byproduct anyway.
Point is though, soil is not actually scarce if someone takes the time to make compost.
And how could stew be a bad food? it takes one squash, one corn, and one bowl of beans. so 2 1/4 soil, 3 1/4 water, and one kindling. I'm not sure how many uses it gets, but it's, but quite a lot, and it's cheap to make.
Regarding numbers of plates and bowls: that is an issue. In that same game I did spend my last hours collecting some clay, there had been kind of a chronic shortage of plates and bowls, especially as my bowls of stew were getting left all over.
i would add, in another game i ran to the kitchen area to tell people berries were out, both so they would know for necessary things and so no one would expect them when low on food. Once i said it was scared of getting stabbed for being a berry eating noob. Fortunately the person just told me were stew was, and I was able to say I was informing them because i was making compost, not starving.
Seriously though, to anyone decrying chaining the yum bonus. by the time you get to 10 it is enormous. I was playing up my yum and went through like all my fertile years on one chain. Granted, i was wasting some time running for onions and whatnot.
But in a camp where people are doing jobs, there should be a lot of foods. These small foods like greenbeans, popcorn, mango slices, bread, or heaven forbid, eating a carrot, can create a great chain that leaves you way more productive.
I also don't get why people hate on bread so much. You almost always have extra piles of grain lying around. It's a convenient food for people to eat, helps with yum bonus etc. The math of it doesn't seem to be messed up to me, when you figure grain is usually a surplus item. Also when you figure the old and young and not wanting to wait til you're about to starve. I remain convinced people are dropping dead because they're scared of wasting a few pips, when food ISN'T SCARCE [well, of course it is in the economic sense, it isn't in the sense of there being a shortage]
I'm gonna play a few more games as a stewmaker and see if i can convince more people to eat stew. Even if dropping off bowls and saying "eat stew" doesn't seem to be enough.
I've realized this is also really worthwhile early game and everyone waits. these seeds are easy to collect, and for 6 soils and three tool usages you can get a bunch of food.
Also i'm going to start trying to force my kids to work in the berry fields, as opposed to letting them do whatever. Adults shouldn't have to do that job because it's a waste for people who can go farther from food, and my kids are always dropping dead of starvation, which there should be like no threat of in the berry field.
Anyway, we really, really need to be able to stack and carry mixed and matched bowls, and put them in carts. If it is the habit to be leaving stacks of food bowls near the berry fields etc Even three to a basket of full bowls would be better, though it would look goofy. It's also pretty ridiculous that we're running back to grab bowls of grain one by one, like wheat was never transported in woven baskets?
We really are wasting too much energy maintaining large berry fields, but they have to remain full for compost and sheep, and people eat way too much of them granted, i probably eat more of them than I should, but mostly only when i'm working on the field or it has a yum bonus. Still, if i've made a bunch of batches of compost and fetched water and moved bowls of soil and watered them etc i don't consider it a problem if I eat some of the berries.
A thing to remember here is Jason's intention was to create a system where we didn't just eat the same thing constantly, like in our carrot farming days etc. He did a pretty good job with the yum system and whatnot but there are two problems
1) Tons of people who play this game just are obsessed with numbers and efficiency. The idea was that eating a variety of food would make the game more realistic and less monotonous
2) More importantly, mutton pies need to stop being a necessary byproduct of survival. The obvious solution to this is that sheep produce dung when they go from sheered to wooly, instead of when lambs grow up. This also allows a vegetarian village that only keeps a couple of lambs for wool...we've all wanted cultures to vary more.
Recently, in several different conversations i have seen it discussed that you can't get people to eat bowls of food. With the yum bonus, having different bowls of food around is very useful.
Some people decry seeking the yum bonus, but if in a life you eat a pie, a berry, a stew, a green bean, a bread, a carrot, a mango slice, a popcorn, etc you're really optimizing.
It isn't that hard if there is diverse food around the camp.
I recently have made some efforts at delivering foods, and also played a game as a stewmaker, [including the farming] doing some delivery and saying "eat stew" when i set bowls down.
in a medium sized village with at least 15 people around, only one of four total stewpots I made was emptied, and i ate quite a lot of stew and filled bowls and set them all over [i also made compost and cared for berries etc, it didn't take me a whole life to make 4 pots of stew]. Really, seemingly only in the kitchen did they understand to eat the stew, and even so, they seemed reticent to do so. The village wasn't starving, but still, I left stew bowls around and pretty much no one ate them.
So, why aren't people eating food?
well, for one thing i was worried I'd get yelled at by the baker for "stealing" pies, despite that I was making food just off screen.
But also, maybe people have just been yelled at so much about what they eat they just stand around berries despite that everyone hates them for it [and it's infinitely frustrating to feel the need to take care of them as an adult, because it's the perfect kid job].
With the yum bonus it makes sense that people eat more things. We just need to train the player base to do it. The practical thing, is making it feasible for delivering food and collecting bowls and plates to be a job.
The big obstacle to this is a lack of stackability. If a person can carry 5 bowls of different things and set them down, we can teach people over time to actually eat different foods.
Cause it really is ridiculous that stewpots just sit there and almost no one eats what is one of the best in town foods.
squash seeds and some others already do this. that's why you see bowls with seeds on them. That carrot and milkweed seeds can't is just ridiculous.
You can also plant wheat from a bowl of wheat seeds btw
The disconnect on startup bug still exists for me, though it's somewhat more sporadic.
I got a wild bug notice, with it doing the exact client lag thing. I emailed Jason at the fastmail email, i didn't write down the contact info in game cause it reconnected
It wasn't a waste. You worked together with some awesome people and you fought the good fight. Congrats.
Yeah the line made it to my great great granddaughters, there wasn't more i could have done.
I really think it suffered from the nightly logoff, because my daughter had 4 daughters live to childbearing age, for like 64 years of combined fertility or something, and had a total of 12 children or so.
Whereas my daughter and I both had 10 children, though only one of mine lived to adulthood, though the circumstances were harder than my daughters impressive 5. [I never have 5 children live to adulthood.]
it really seems like the snowballs can just be removed completely, it's absurd way to be able to kill someone, and only causes problems.