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#301 Main Forum » I would become pro-fence if: » 2019-05-22 20:54:42

futurebird
Replies: 10

-you could quickly add a whole family to a gate
-when you add people or families to a fence you got a chime sound like you do with curses-- so you know you did it correctly
-the fence material decayed

I have found fences really useful for keeping out bears and mosquitos and other wild beasts. It's very hard to kite a bear in to a fenced area so they make that old form of griefing less effective. And as I mentioned before they make towns much more tidy if just a few people are committed to taking all of the trash out of the fence and making everything inside organized.

I think they may deter theft. No idea if they help with invaders, but the other reasons are enough to make them useful.

#302 Re: Main Forum » More building related tech » 2019-05-22 20:43:03

Agree both of these changes would be nice.

#303 Re: Main Forum » Make Killing not the only option, Interracial Marriages! » 2019-05-22 20:40:43

jasonrohrer wrote:

Thinking about something like this in the future.

Everyone wanted people to come together for the longest time.  "We're too far apart, we can never visit other towns."  Well, now you're close together, and there are problems.  It's not just the war sword.  There would be problems no matter what.  Resources are limited in a given area.

That's really great and I generally agree that the sword post adjustments isn't really the cause of all the (extra, kind of unmotivated) violence we've been seeing. I think it's the combo of Eves being close AND immune to curses. Now for most players the threat of being killed makes them avoid villages, but if you aren't in the game to raise a family and survive that isn't important and you can just go in to towns and cause all kinds of problems.

It's not even like there are a lot of people doing this. It's just a few I suspect. But, they are really persistent.

IDK if just having curses work on outsiders again would be the great though (didn't you find that curses never worked outside of a family?) But, I'd rather not have curses mixed in with "legitimate" raids. Like if a a desperate Eve decides to steal a little iron, she should NOT get cursed for that or worry about curses she should be worried about getting killed... that's more interesting.

But, I don't feel like there is any good defense or response in the game to Eve suicide bombers. Eves who aren't coming at your town to try to kill you since they think that's the only way to survive, but just for the LULZ, you know?

#304 Re: Main Forum » Make Killing not the only option, Interracial Marriages! » 2019-05-22 20:34:17

Keyin wrote:

I really don't think marriage should be a mechanic of the game because it's a social construct. Marriage is not the same for all cultures.

But swords that only kill people not in your family, fences that can't be destroyed by force, and tops hats are totally universal?

Eh. It'd be impossible to have a game at all without any social constructs.

I think it'd be fine to have marriage work in families too, but maybe you don't get the fertility bonus. Same kind of idea for same sex pairings.

Some other thoughts:
-It'd be nice if when people with different names married they got a new last name. That could even be the mechanic. You both say "We are NEW_LAST_NAME" while standing close together and you both get that name. You could reuse one of your current names, but you need to say identical names and pretty much at the same time.

-Don't want people to marry *just* to learn language. Perhaps losing the war sword power and getting the ability to curse would be enough of a deterrent? Maybe when you marry you become vulnerable to your existing family since you are literally making a new family line? A more extreme idea would be that you die at the same time. You literally can't live without each other.


Tangent:
My grandmother died at 98 her husband, my grandfather was in as good health as you can be at 99 when she died. He only lasted 3 months after she was gone. It was really sad ...but also really touching in a way. They were together for nearly 70 years... He said "Things just don't make sense anymore without her."

#305 Re: Main Forum » Make Killing not the only option, Interracial Marriages! » 2019-05-22 18:34:09

I don't know if "inter racial" is the right word for it but I have said that marriage would be a great thing to add for a long time. Marriage between anyone with different last names with the effects:

-Honeymoon period: you learn language from each other like you are a child for 3 years after being married. So you must talk or you don't learn each other's language.
-small fertility boost for man/woman pairings
-men can now have kids on the family tree!

I think this would be amazing.

#306 Re: Main Forum » Murder, Somewhat Quanitified » 2019-05-22 14:09:32

miskas wrote:

I think its time to implement Interracial Marriages....


https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … terracial/?

Right now people who aren't in your family have mostly negatives about them. But, if you can only marry people who aren't of the same last name there is a reason to *want* to be around other people and it'd balance the game.

#307 Re: Main Forum » Preventing the collapse of civilization -- Jonathan Blow » 2019-05-22 14:07:34

One way to force a choice in the tech tree is to use a mechanic like the springs. You need to build your factory on a spring, or on some other rare spaced out source block so it just isn't possible for every town to have every kind of mass production. You have to choose if you want to mass produce pies or wool or steel tools.

Once you get a factory going you'll have a glut of whatever you choose to produce. Since different towns will choose to produce different things you'll have trade.

#308 Re: Main Forum » Buildings double plus good » 2019-05-22 01:48:34

Can't wait to see what this results in!

#309 Re: Main Forum » Don't take life too seriously » 2019-05-22 00:52:17

DestinyCall wrote:

Now, now ... let's keep things civil.  There's no point telling Spoon to be nicer, if you are just going to turn around and throw insults at him.   Try to be the better man.

Agree. This is really out of hand.

#310 Re: Main Forum » Preventing the collapse of civilization -- Jonathan Blow » 2019-05-22 00:50:13

Spoonwood wrote:

I'm not sure what that even means.  My head is clear.  I don't like Jason just throwing a video out there like this.  Look, there was one person on discord, NOT me, who wasn't too pleased with Jason posting this because he's doing that INSTEAD of responding to several complaints.

Yeah, but I was just complaining on discord not derailing the thread. I've been involved with some threads about the toxic combo of "/die shopping" for a spawn locations, everyone being close together and the fact the being killed doesn't really matter to griefers. So, seeing this post *felt* like being ignored. But, yelling about it here isn't really totally fair (Jason may not have had time to read those threads, and these kinds of posts are fine.)

I'm not doing this just to try to be "nice" but because I realize that not everything that makes me *feel* angry needs to be thrown in someone's face. And you can *feel* angry at someone who isn't really doing anything actively wrong. And yelling at people to get what you want isn't effective most of the time with some rare exceptions.

And that's the last I'll say on this thread. Talk to me on discord or something. The thread has been derailed enough.

#311 Re: Main Forum » Preventing the collapse of civilization -- Jonathan Blow » 2019-05-21 23:52:22

Sukallinen wrote:

Listened the stuff, so if TL;don't listen -

A misguided guy talking about how he knows about couple of lost minor technologies (forgot damascus sword making one of the famous ones), draws line of civ's falling (yup I am quite scared, now when we have almost whole worldwide civ there's no other high-lvl civ to lift us when we fall). Then moves to how programmers don't know, say, processor architecture and such when programming in c#, Java or making webpages.

Yeah that point seemed way off to me as well. Also:

People are better education today than in any point in all of human history.

There are some dangers in specialization, true, but asking random people now about simple scientific ideas and you will get better answers than at any other point in time. The general knowledge base that people have is just better.

#312 Re: Main Forum » Jason Made My Playstyle Meta - WARMONGER META » 2019-05-21 23:47:12

breezeknight wrote:

@futurebird

the feature changes made with the last couple of updates, since the fences update are only the last straw for me...

- - -

I'm running out of straws too.

y8gW9I1.jpg

I've played like 4 games in the past few days. I was feeling cheered because 3 were reasonable. Then I stumble in to this.

Though I think I'll trying avoiding the "after school" hours and play in the AM only. If this keeps on being common ugh. IDK.

It's not just that there is so much death it's that there is NO MEANING here. Nothing. This was not an invasion. This was not swords. This was just people who know they can't get sent to donkey town as easily. I did manage to curse the one who was kiting the bears in to town (and not having much success due to the fence. It was funny to watch TBH)

But, we had griefer twins and two other griefers one who killed a sheep probably using multiple accounts and /die to target one town for maximum mayhem.

And of course some people got killed in murder chains as well. It was just so...

boring.

Why am I bring wood and making kerosine for this place???

#313 Re: Main Forum » Locked OPEN gate » 2019-05-21 23:33:41

Town halls kept the bear out-- so wild animal protection is a thing... but they didn't stop this from happening.

y8gW9I1.jpg

I could not sort out what caused the chain of murders but it seemed like it stared with a strange guy (NOT an eve and he looked similar enough to blend in) killing someone then twin red-head griefers got involved.

This town was under siege, sheep were dead, things hidden behind trees outside of town.

Down side of the fence is people don't leave the area much. I kept finding stuff while gathering wood. Also saw some woman who was building some kind of trap out of tower bases right outside of town but couldn't get anyone to help me figure out what was going on.

Later the murders started. I think it was the same two people maybe coming back multiple times with different accounts? IDK.

Would have been nice if I could have cursed one of those twins.
But all we could do was kill them and they will be back again in another life to complete their "project."

Don't see how wall would help here.

Though they did make the bear someone was trying to lead to town very confused. I was able to curse the kid leading the bear since he was in my family. So there is that.

Anyway it looks like every other game I play will be like this.

#314 Main Forum » Locked OPEN gate » 2019-05-21 20:51:39

futurebird
Replies: 3

Fencing a town like it's a big house with the aim to lock out "bad people" is the wrong move. But having a boundary around a town can be a good idea it does a few things:

-Makes it clear how far trash must be carried to be dumped
-Makes graves with stone kept in town more significant
-Limits the locations of entrances and exits so that theft is harder
-Makes it clear what parts of forest should be preserved like a park and makes tree farms more noticeable.
-Keeps towns from getting too spread out

The problem is if you build such a fence someone could slap gates on it and create either a trap or just a great annoyance by blocking a key exit. My idea is as follows:

-----fence-----[adobe base] [tower base] gap with road [tower base] [adobe base]----fence---

This means the exit needed to be blocked is much wider and sever tools are required to make it a totally sealed property fence. Even if the road is torn up and the gap blocked using water, or a shovel it's possible to open it again. A town with 4 such exits, each centered on the 4 faces of the  fences would get the (modest) benefits of fences and not face the downsides as easily.

Since many people really want to build fences rather than wasting both of your lives putting down and pulling up the same fence why not try this compromise idea and we can evaluate it's defensive value over the next few days?

Also please don't kill every Eve on sight. If she has a bow that's another matter (see pein's post) but, let's not let the worst among us bring us to their level. If you kill Eve's on sight you are killing harmless nice people most of the time. It's not worth it to put someone through that just because there are more griefers living as Eves.

#315 Re: Main Forum » A system to replace cursing "block" 3 players. » 2019-05-21 19:09:20

Tarr wrote:

Most players you would want to block have multiple accounts anyways. You would mostly be looking at blocking 1 to 2 people max with a three block system.

It's very likely that there would be other people in any village would would want to block those same people and the preferences of the village taken together would cover multiple accounts.

Killing griefers does little to deter them.

#316 Re: Main Forum » Murder, Somewhat Quanitified » 2019-05-21 19:06:19

Psykout wrote:

I don't like staring at the icon on my desktop pondering if its worth it not to double click it.

I feel much the same.

#317 Re: Main Forum » Eve etiquette » 2019-05-21 17:06:16

Guppy wrote:

I was in that family a few hours ago, did anyone else notice the graves south of the village that said they're like 1450 years old?

I think you were my kid! I kept going on about "where's the oil" and you told me about the graves. They were very strange. That town was wonderful.

#318 Re: Main Forum » Jason Made My Playstyle Meta - WARMONGER META » 2019-05-21 17:04:26

JonySky wrote:

now it is less repetitive than before and very good stories are generated!

The language changes, being closer together have had positive effects. But, the closer spawns the inability to curse people outside of our family and the ability for anyone to become Eve just by spamming /die are a toxic combination.

Might as well just add a "I want to grief" check box when you log in and you'd spawn as eve and could get on with causing as much trouble as possible. And if you die? If you get killed? Why would you care? You're just Eve you didn't build that much: start over and do it again.

#319 Re: Main Forum » Murder, Somewhat Quanitified » 2019-05-21 16:57:21

Agree. The fences probably aren't a good solution or even helpful since there is no easy way to add large groups of people to a gate so they end up being traps even when used with the best intentions.

I've been trying to give fences a go and not just reject them. But I've yet to see them do anything but cause problems.

Even if you could add whole families at once I still don't see how you are going to have all the gates closed at the right time-- and if an friendly Eve comes by what are you supposed to do just stare at her over the fence and not come out? I'm not going to do that.


The swords are mostly fine now. It's the "let's spawn people you can't curse near you AND let's have and an easy way for anyone for force themselves to spawn that way (using /die)"

it's catering to griefers.

And the vast majority of players are not griefers and I don't think griefers are a good "threat" since their goal is to ruin your enjoyment of the game. The whole concept of trying to employ griefers as if they were some kind of new wild animal threat ignores the fact the whatever will make people quit in disgust is that griefers will do.

#320 Re: Main Forum » Murder, Somewhat Quanitified » 2019-05-21 16:48:22

The problem is the new "kill Eve's on sight" meta. I don't even know if it's justified but even if it is justified from a game perspective not giving people a chance because "they might have evil kids" is an ugly dynamic.

So, is the related "Kill all other families in multi- family cities" though that one is more rare, possibly because people realize it would be a two-way blood bath that would often kill BOTH families.

There are lots of towns with families existing in peace. This meta is talked about a bit more than it is played out.

But the cause griefers exploiting being eve to avoid curses isn't the right or most rich starting point for intra-city and family conflict.

So, to me the problem isn't the sword as it is now on it's own, but the combination of close spawns, no cursing non- family member AND the sword.

Really the sword isn't even the main issue anymore. The Eves are using bows.

It isn't really rational or good gameplay for eves to attack cities if they want their kids to survive. Trying to integrate or striking out on your own makes more sense.

We are allowing irrational players who don't care about the goals of the game to dictate the style of play, and that impacts good Eves, and makes village life oppressive and paranoid.

#321 Re: Main Forum » A system to replace cursing "block" 3 players. » 2019-05-21 13:58:54

Spiegel wrote:

It just needs a cooler name. Blocking sounds so. . .

So. . .

"Player mute"

"avoidance curse"

Really, I suspect that there are only maybe 20-30 players out of 1000s who consistently ruin my enjoyment of the game. I'm not talking about noobs, or drama queens, or even people who get in to fights that end with murder. I'm talking about *pure griefing* people who aren't invested in the game, who break the immersion AND block my ability to play because they think it's funny to make other people unhappy or angry.

The sword is no use against such people since they can be in your family and don't really care about being killed *at all* right now a lot of them seem to be playing as Eves since they now spawn close enough to drop in and annoy other people without being worried about curses.

Without the curse system we'd have a real mess. I think it's an effective system, but it's clumsy and LOUD.

Since this type of curse is silent it would also stop chain-cursing and "curse backs" as well.

But when someone keep spouting racial slurs, spamming yoo-hoo, undoing my projects, hiding tools, killing sheep, blocking objects with their body and trying to kill all the girls or break the town food supply or water  I could know that would not have to play with that person again. I could avoid them. That would make me feel so much better.

Best of all: since the mute works both ways people have an inventive *not* to use it unless what they are dealing with is really irritating.

#322 Re: Main Forum » If fences are not viable, what does that mean? » 2019-05-21 13:44:03

breezeknight wrote:

i'd say ... again

stop to fixate on griefing


change the gameplay in a positive way - fundamentally


add more options for positive gameplay

reward positive, constructive gameplay

reinforce positive gameplay


stop running after the last griefing option occuring

be proactive
stop being only reactive !!!

if you would - every addition to the game would get a chance to shine & not just be another option for greifers to harrass other players

- - -

I think this is an excellent point and perspective and I'm going to incorporate it in to the way I offer suggestions. I hope that Jason and others notice this.

#323 Re: Main Forum » Jason Made My Playstyle Meta - WARMONGER META » 2019-05-21 13:00:21

I don’t think the game has gotten to that point yet Breeze but you are correct that it could go that way. The majority of my games 9/10 have been totally peaceful. Most people who play this game are not interested in war, object to going on raids speak up when people want to kill a friendly Eve. If the balance tips? if it’s really a game where you kill anyone different on sight and always raid rather than collaborate I’ll be gone too. I encourage you to play one game. See what happens. Random irrational violence has a big impact on the victims. But it isn’t exactly “normal “ no matter how badly the warmongering voices may want that to be the case.

#324 Re: Main Forum » Eve etiquette » 2019-05-21 12:49:14

Potjeh wrote:

Why would you ever want someone around you that can use a sword on you and that you can't curse? Kill all foreigners as soon as you see them, it's the only rational option.

Because people are the most powerful resource in the game. Killing fertile women who could keep your town going is dooming the town. For the most part you are as likely to give birth to an irrational murder as you are to have one walk in to town. I think everything Pein said makes sense, though.

I want more people in my town. I want their knowledge and hard work.

#325 Main Forum » A system to replace cursing "block" 3 players. » 2019-05-21 12:18:45

futurebird
Replies: 6

Each player would have 3 blocks EVER. If you block a 4th person the 1st person you block is unblocked. If you choose to block a player they have an effective birth area ban for your birth location. You also have an area ban for THEIR birth location. So if you choose to use all 3 blocks you would (at worst) be area banned from being born in up to 3 towns at any given time (but for that to happen all 3 people you blocked would need to be playing before you login)

Once you are born those 3 people cannot be born in your town. So you are less likely to encounter them.

The action of blocking is silent and babies can do it by typing the comment /Block FIRSTNAME LASTNAME.

Players who constantly annoy others might end up unable to be born to any mother when they try to log in. If this happens they go to donkey town until there is a town where no one has blocked them.

In fact 3 blocks might be too many. This system could also work with just 1 or two blocks.

There are a lot of players with zero or very few curses and a few with a great number. If the distribution of blocks is similar these players would be kept away from the people they annoy.

Since blocks are removed when new blocks are added over time a player who stopped being annoying and griefing could work their way off of block lists and have many more places to be born.

Basically, it'd be kind of like how you can block someone in a chat or other social network. But, with a limit on blocks to keep the number of places people can be born high.

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