a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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I LOVE THIS... but... what came next... it was so sad...
Or against weather even, since getting wet makes you lose temperature, and fires don't go along too well with water.
What if fires lasted longer inside? And I do think Spoonwood and others are right about buildings not really giving the kind of temp bonus that makes them essential. A house with a fire in it should be perfect temp on every tile... not too hot near the fire and too cold away from it.
Fires outside work in a really logical way, you get too hot if you stand on it too cold if you move away ... it makes sense, but this keeps happening inside as well so buildings end up existing mostly for organization. Which is more important than I think you and some others are recognizing. The more I think about how *clean* I was able to make fenced towns-- the more I like the idea of using fences in that way. I just wish I wasn't putting people at risk of being trapped...

It's just really easy to poke holes in fences. So, like walls I think their main value is organization. I'm saying that feces *are* useful. Just not to defend a village. In this image everyone thought the fence was doing fine, but it was full of this and many other holes.
OK I just had and idea.. what if you tie who the sword works on to fences? The people who own an area can use a sword on people in that area. (determining what's inside vs. out might be hard)
I'd only like this change if you could batch add people, and then you could add strangers if you liked them. And if you didn't want to get stabbed just stay out of fenced zones.
In fact you could make it so the sword is the enforcement mechanic not the gate, so gates don't lock people out, but if you are inside a place you don't own you are vulnerable to deadly attacks. That seems more realistic to me. A kind of home turf advantage.
I think fences would be more useful if you could batch-add everyone with your last name. I don't know if it'd do much for village defense, but they are great for making a town more organized. It's clear that trash and bones go outside the fence and that the areas inside should be tidy. It makes organizing a town much more enjoyable. Were it not for the risk of someone using the gates for mischief I might even build them for that purpose if I ever get up the nerve to start playing again.
It might be an interesting dynamic if there was some sort of trade-off between security and trusting other families, but there isn't. There is no benefit whatsoever in letting foreigners live. Zilch. Nada.
Not totally true. Meeting new people is fun and I have chosen to trust every outsider, because it's more fun and because playing with the languages interesting and that captures some of the things I like best about the game. If I get killed I shrug it off and roll again. Which isn't really a normal or immersed way to act. But I just have a hard time getting excited about playing "hate the outsider" or being the hated outsider in a game.
Just because I trust outsiders less than my own family doesn't mean I care about my family. I think the language update gives you reasons to care about your family. It's a really neat update and it makes me so sad that it's being overshadowed by rather contrived sword.
Again: I don't understand why I can't use the sword on anyone? The reason seems to be so that one person will come and kill another family (lets face it these people would have killed their own families if they could, but the magic of the sword keeps them from doing it) But-- victory, I guess, we have conflict between families! (but only because that's the only way the sword can be used.)
The sword creates an incentive for people who want to kill a bunch of players to go further to find those players to kill. It didn't make them care so much about their family that they were willing to kill for them.
I like the other families. I like the other languages. I like being closer together. I don't like the war sword.
Same. Or at least I don't like it at it's current power-level or the restrictions on who it can and can't kill, that just feels artificial somehow...
I don’t think if swords stay in or not is a question for a community vote or for me to decide (but if you asked me I’d say get rid of them) Part of creative work is knowing when not to give an audience what they want. I have respect for those kinds of choices. The “red wedding” on GOT was really hated by many fans but it was the kind of good artistic choice that makes a story memorable and important. That said, going for shock value— just because it’s shocking with no real deeper meaning or genre to subvert is juvenile and boring. A lot of Jason’s choices skirt line on this distinction for me. The combination of the race based segregation, swords and language feels like someone it’s trying to stop me from being kind, like I’m being boxed in to a xenophobic stance by game mechanics. I don’t like it because feel as if I’m being told “oh no what will you sweet little doves do NOW?” —um not enjoy the game as much and die a lot?
I’ve mentioned before that recent changes have lead me to be more detached from the game with all the random murder it is healthiest not to be emotionally invested and let yourself really *feel* the impacts of all the deaths instead I laugh like I did as a teen at dead baby jokes. Nothing wrong with that kind fun but I thought maybe this game was going for something deeper. Now, I don’t know.
... Waging war could work like this:
You have a war sword. It can't be used against anyone.
But then a person from a different family kills someone in your family with bow or knife. They can still not kill you with war swords, but you can attack anyone in their family with yours. You can wipe out their entire clan if you wish.
But, the moment you kill someone from their family with your war sword, now their war swords are activated, and they can kill anyone from your family.There could be a note on the screen of every family member: "Currently at war with the Johnsons."
As long as the swords are basically magic because they can't be used on everyone I see no reason not to do this. If someone starts a conflict with a bow or knife you can escalate to sword. But once you have done that the door to that kind of violence is open in both directions.
So we REALLY need to catch those babies and not let them run. Why are they so fast? This is going to make the "chase the super fast baby" mini-game even more horrible.
With the new update we'll be spending more time in towns with broken baskets, the rubble of adobe and fences, with that old decayed feel.
I was in a town in my last life and there were about 10 people there but it felt like just 2 or 3, the town was just so huge and there weren't many of us and not many kids were being born.
I always have a hard time thinking of what to do in towns like that. Nothing feels very urgent. There's often food, and water, and since there aren't a lot of people no reason to make more. Organizing isn't very satisfying. And the real problems that such towns have can be hard to tackle and get others excited about.
I decided to try to tackle a hard problem: the town had very little iron, there was some recycled iron, but not much at all. So holding out hope for a baby boom I prepared a horse and rode out into the wild, but what I saw was not "the wild" as I know it and love it... it was a wasteland. For miles about every resource was stripped, even bananas and burdock were scarce. I rode for 30 min and found one piece of surface iron and one iron vein so far from home that I knew I would not be able to bring a kit to it and mine it before I died.
Even the other abandon towns that I found were disappointing. Every item with iron was gone. What I did find was knives. Knives are an excellent source of iron and I brought 3 back along with the single piece of iron that I found in the jungle.
It wasn't a bad life but it was bitter sweet, by the time I got back most everyone was dead. The town was empty so, there was no one to enjoy my finds. I melted the knives anyway and stacked up some kindling and charcoal so that anyone else who lived there in the future could make kerosine.
So, my question is what would you have done with that life? How do you make the most of a tired old town?
As the iron runs out we can move to stone hoes, so farming can go on... but how will we cut down trees without new axes? How will we make new carts and replace wandering buckets?
I suppose you could take the car and get iron from even further away.
Or you could do a raid, but really I can't see killing for iron when the real issue was it was just so empty and lonely. If I found a living town I would have settled down to happily work there.
But, I'm curious how this scarcity will play out. I must admit, I'm tempted to avoid burnt out places and search for somewhere more lush... how are the rest of you felling?
Now having said that....
I really do think this is NOT the right time to introduce wars in this game, someone once said the current population dynamics do not support war or rather, items that allow one person to slay a dozen. It's simply ridiculous that a single person can commit genocide on a family with relatively little effort. In reality, and it should be close to reality at least with regards to war, genocide requires concerted effort from the attacking forces. The current server population cannot sustain this sort of events IMHO
I agree. I think it's a bit too powerful and not really at the same level as the kind of towns we have yet. I wouldn't say "never ever" to swords or other weapons. But maybe not just yet? They are a bit less worrisome since they have been scaled back a bit. And since they can be made back in to pipes the major reason why I didn't like them is gone.
I've been having a lot of fun with the language and closer villages, but the thing where everyone looks the same and you can't tell people apart and the swords not so much.
We need shelves too
Then we build a great library with massive hallways with rows of shelves. Fun
This is my dream! I love the basket libraries that people make some have even suffered and made a sign that says "Library" -- but even with the baskets and boxes if the town is very old the papers end up scattered and out of order... Maybe... if that kind of decay is part of the feel Jason wants you *need* to put books on a shelf or they fall apart after like 8 hours?
Though, I think they should just last. It would condense paper clutter, and make it OK for paper that isn't in a book to decay which is much needed. Just having paper decay would be sad... but we all can agree it becomes clutter.
The sword should kill anyone including family OR just not be in the game. IMO. I don't like magic.
I don't mind us trying this scarcity experiment... but, it ain't gonna end with trade and civilization... though there may be some interesting consolidation before it burns out. And I'm enjoying developing new ways to prospect. When it gets to the point that you need to spend more than 20 min riding out and 20 min riding back to get iron then maybe we should do an apocalypse and get more resources.
Heck. Maybe getting iron by car will become *required* to keep towns going. Let's ride this pony a bit further.
But there is still a ton of iron out there. I got 3 mines just today...
There are a lot a threads here that are... um... Just a bunch of drama and nonsense. And even though I find some of the threads amusing and others just annoying or boring... maybe it would be good if topics in "Main" had to be about gameplay, features, and in game experiences rather than long standing "beefs" and accusations and sock- puppetting.
Threads that are posted here that stray too far from being on topic could be moved to the off topic forum.
And if people need to goof-off they could go there...
No, that's not a good idea, because then someone will try to kill the Eve or the Eve will try to kill all of the people in the town. Neither involves people playing for the sake of their lineage, it just involves murder.
That isn't always what happens tho. In fact, in every case I've had an Eve come to a town that I was in no one got killed except for when one of my uncles pulled a sword on the visitor and I killed *him*
I think that people will still work together and be welcoming *in spite* of the swords. The question is do we really need the swords to give those interactions weight. They clearly aren't useful as tools to further civilization building ... at least not now they aren't.
This will be interesting. Normally kids want to go to a big town if there is one. But will they be so keen to run away since the language changes. IDK lets see.
Having to split off a town to settle a new locations where the eves respawn anew seems like a good idea tbf, but if only we had the means of large population transport.
The frontier update maybe-
Oh I agree about transport and the fun of migration with your family!
Something like this?
Climate change/Over Farming Migration Crisis:
-areas that are intensively farmed (hoe used more than 6 times on one spot, berries that are watered more than 15 times) turn to desert and desert cannot support crops of any kind.
-this is a slow creeping process that takes two generations
-once the process starts it's spreads to adjacent tiles slowly taking over the areaThis alone would just annoy me as would crop diseases, just another dang problem! so at the same time as you add the problem add the solution:
-add two horse carts that can carry two people (or four people if it's women with kids) and 6 large items
-they are a little complex to build it takes about a generation to make a pair of carts.Because when the desert creeps in to your town the only thing to do is pack up and move the whole family. Some on foot some in carts a group migration to a spot ideally scouted by some of your better young explorers.
Or you could try to find an abandon town, or blend in to an existing town and learn their language and ways.
I've cursed one of my own family and killed them for attacking a visitor from another town. And I'm so ready to do that again.
It's really frustrating and the way that I've dealt with it is by not being as invested TBH. I try to enjoy the good stuff like learning languages and if people get killed I just kind of roll my eyes and move on to the next life.
I don't feel like boxing out people just because they are different. And my own kids are as likely to be bad apples as anyone else. I guess it isn't too bad to have a person or two with a sword in your town, but I'd rather make a car with that iron or drill for oil.
I'm glad for the recent changes, and I don't intend to let the fact that swords exist destroy the things that I like about the game.
Basket for paper? Box of paper baskets holds 12 paper.
they get out of order. And baskets decay... And books would just look so cool--
I don't find that after granting ownership that the conversation goes on or it leads to much of anything. Frankly a lot of people just ignore it until they are locked in or out of a critical location and no one can find anyone to open the gate.
The people who built the fence and were worried about me owning some of the gates wandered off without naming gate keepers making it hard to get out of the east side of town. I named a few and kept opening the gates when I saw them closed so I hope that no one will be trapped.

From JK on discord. Paper clutter really is a problem!
Paper should decay after 2 hours in to "old paper" which can be burned. After 6 hours "old paper" will vanish. At the same, time this change is made we should get the ability to bind an unlimited number of papers (and photos if they ever become in-game objects!) in to a book. Books should last forever. I even know how the recipe would work:
Making a Book:
put a rabbit skin in a bowl of water and get a "wet rabbit skin"
scrape with a flint chip and get "rawhide"
sew with a needle and thread and get a "book binding"
put a paper(old or normal) with writing in the book and it becomes page 1, add as many as you like in the order you want them or take them out of the "binding with pages"
whatever is on page 1 will be the title of the book
when the book is done sew again with a needle and thread and no more pages can be added. Now you have a "book"
Books can be stacked in groups of 4
Books can be dyed like clothing in any color
Books last forever, possibly even after an apocalypse
A Bookshelf made of a rope used on a stack of two boards can hold 8 books in two rows of 4
Reading a Book:
Pick up the book the title will be your speech bubble For example ":Town history and lore by Futurebird" Right click on any tile while holding the book, page turn sound plays and you "read" the next page. To put down left click where you want to place the book.
I've thought about this a lot! It seems like a novelty item, but it could create continuity and history for towns. And we need a way to bind dictionaries and books of laws!
I also played in a walled town as a member of the Angel Lineage. We had three exits but only one was protected by a gate, wich I couldn't use. Wouldn't it be convenient for village walls to be able to pass ownership to all members of a family at once? Maybe something like "Family ..... owns this" and then all currently living members would be granted access.
This is what I just said. (see post above)
Also I was in the same town.