a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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It still eliminates a one town system which is a huge problem. It's no longer qin town or bust.
Eve CAN make her own startup now and not have everyone just run to the bell. Sure it's STILL better to group around a bell to an extent, but now the world outside of the bell will definitely open up. The Eve actually has the option, "should I start my own place? Or should I go find an abandoned well" which is better than "oh I'm eve.. better run to the bell"
I see the positives too here and I've seen quite a few people not liking the ONE city policy that tends to happen now. I kinda didn't like it either.
Also tarrhed, anytime I'm ginger now I'm going to find a way to bring fishing to the other villages for ya. I'll do what it takes and set it as my mission.
My issue comes from if poor city planning occurs (most cities) then it's impossible to do family fishing villages as you'll be infertile (which is awful.)
Now instead of just qin town you'll have a bunch of slum like villages connected to a m ain big city or worse yet you'll see a bunch of noob villages where smart players flee to the big bell town to actually ignore the issues at the new player village. The fact you need to find an usused spring near a badlands, which is close but not too close to a big city makes the whole fun of fishing communities fade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R26u2qAQ57s&t=1s
The fishing area kind of sucks due to size but you cannot tell me that isn't the perfect overall setup. You've got a close knit family unit working in tandem to support each other and make sure everyone is successful. This isn't possible now due to you'd be infertile trying something like this and that's absolutely dumb.
Your homeland should cover a larger area to allow something cool like mini fishing village but this isn't possible because the main bell wells will screw insiders AND outsiders.
Less restrictions, more family related updates like fishing.
Yeah, we haven't moved to the next level of worries because we're still too busy figuring out the balancing of water.
I guess it's your own fault if you're doing water based things instead of moving onto the waterless master race objects (fishing, table making, wall making.)
Farming is for the plebians.
I imagine gingers making a wall around their town with property gates and live independently. Let other families suffer, it's not their problem. Someone could play as brown one life and give enough rubber supply to the ginger's family for their whole life. Another time as black and give them many horses.
I also imagine let's say a brown family's person reborning in gingers family. He/she steals all the kerosene and brings it to his/her previous life family, because he/she may feel more connected to that previous fam.
I don't think there will be much trading, just helping other families because of said connection from previous lives.
This is incredible smooth brain thinking. What if we just steal from our future lives! I'm sure that'll work out well :^)
Working together supplying each town with whatever they're missing is the smart move instead of trying to lock random shit up because dumby mcdumb is going to steal it to support his mud hut village.
I mean I don't fully understand the update
So far I read that you only get kids if you are home
that won't include males and old people or anyone who doesn't want them anywaywas a part in the updates where Jason said go home or make a new home
so I guess you can pseudo evethe minimum distance would be 4 well sites on 200 tiles, that's not always possible but can be managed I guess, one horseman can just set up waystones and bells
it's just more restrictions and no mechanics added
It's about fixing the exploit of smart players just grouping players up to avoid the shitty racial restrictions. More crap, less fun essentially. Basically kills off any little fishing villages unless you move them really far from town or anything like little homes near towns.
Prepare for everyone to dick around the berry farm so they can potentially have kids instead of working.
Not sure why, but I just picture four towns as close as possible with a stockpile in the middle.
This is the most likely outcome. People just dump resources in the middle and the other races either hangout in the center and walk out for kids or take X and leave Y.
What I (believe happened)
You clicked the snake while in a good biome which automatically bit the horse and kicked you off. Obviously would take testing but if I recall clicking (and not being in) a bad biome treats you as being in it so if you're zoomed out and click a snow biome you automatically drop an item and get hypothermia.
But yeah, could literally be anything.
DestinyCall wrote:If you get to first place, you will be born wearing a Jason hat.
Really ?
No. You spawn in and realize you've cared too much about a meaningless mechanic instead of trying to enjoy the game to the fullest. Kek
I don´t usually follow Spoonwoods train of thought, but in this case the amount of water produced per oil is in my opinion not the problem.
If we expect a town to develop any sensible way of actual civilization (just as the premise of the game) we have to expect a water and resources surplus and not the other way around. Big cities and empires benefited in some way or another from resource abundance and not from scarcity. Given that oil is a) Region limited and scarce b)Hard to find and c)Non renewable i´d say there is no problem with that much water.
Of course you only argue about a number because a small group of people think the game is "not challenging" if there is no scarcity. In this sense this game has progressibely abandon its premise from civilization building to surviving. I you truly believe in the premise about civilization then you should recheck the numbers:
Shallow well 1.3 cistern average
Deep well 3.3 cisterns average
Newcomen pump 12.3 cisterns average.Do you follow the patern? Every step is about 3 to 4 times the step before. That is obviously related to the needs of a growing town.
Now we are facing a drop from 46 to 26 cisterns worth of value in water from an oil rig.
Why? Because people like you find it boring and unchallenging when theres too much water and nothing else to do.I say the problem is in the second part of my last sentence: there is nothing else to do, meaning exaclty what everyone has been telling from six months ago: WE NEED CONTENT.
If we had a nice way to use the water in construction, crafting, art, cooking and others there would be nobody bored about too much water. If we had a decent alternative to use kerosene (cars and planes are laughable) then we would have an actual choice in terms of water or "something else". But no, nerfing water is the best way to keep everyone on their toes and doing something before they note we haven´t had a tech improvement since a year or so.
Seriously, I love Jasons latest attempts to fix old stuff but this is a big dump on everything.Do you really think nerfing food bonus and dropping about 50% water from the oil rig is "boiling the frog"?
Food bonus wise the server has been fine on ripping it off for months as can be seen by myself and others talking about it. At the point 50+ berry bushes is sustainable for multiple weeks it means there's literally zero pressure what so ever on a big town. People have zero idea what so ever where their water is coming from, how they got it, or who is even doing it in the first place. If in Jason's vision of the game places die then oil is the thing that has to kill it.
I'm by no means here to be the fun police and say the game has to be X hard and has to be played Y way but I was specifically asked what is causing towns to never die and it's how much water is produced by oil. If people can comfortably live on berry bushes even when they're 4 pips a bite that says water is much MUCH too plentiful. Saying we need all these extra resources are needed for towns to develop beyond farming is just clearly not true. Unless you've got a bunch of loafers or an Eve camp you should almost always have more than enough food to go around.
However with food nerfs he should also be buffing stuff like insulation values and dropping the rate of pip loss. The game shouldn't be focused on just eating (lower food values only does this) but should make food costly (raising minimum drain rate while reducing food values). Basically, you eat the whole bush at once but might only need to eat like that every 3-4 minutes.
In regards to boiling the frog I think he should just do it in extremes then reel it back. Pull the scab off with the bandage when you rip instead of slowly pulling back the bandage every few days. Making the game more difficult for the sake of being hard is pretty silly in my opinion though because it never hurts the veteran players. While I'd rather we use water for more tasks than nerf it if he's going for the quick option its to just nerf the thing because content is still a few weeks away.
TL;DR:
Nerf oil + food, raise pip drain rate from 6.8 to 8.8 or whatever you feel is right.
Do things in extremes instead of baby nerfs.
If towns are supposed to die then oil has to eventually run out in a reasonable area.
Food hasn't needed the invisible food bonus for literally forever.
Oil is getting nerfed because one rig was producing so much water that one rig was worth 46.2 cisterns worth of water. Do you not see the problem with a single rig producing that much water?
IMO property fences are too OP. Let's be honest, people use them only to make animal pens. Making an animal pen with property fences is too easy and way too fast, it takes only a few moments to make a pen.
They were useful in times where we couldn't trust other families and had to make walls, but now everyone shares everything. People could even curse someone for hiding stuff in a property.I would like to disable them for now.
Btw, a funny story of Jason playing and trying to make a property for him and his kids. It just shows that people don't like when family stuff isn't shared. Jason eventually got killed.
Here's the story: http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewto … 853#p80853
If you set things up privately in the middle of town people are generally in the right to be annoyed, especially if you build something that isn't self-sufficient since you're essentially just restricting resources for no reason. I'd assume he probably built a bit too close to town if he really wanted a private property considering someone walked up on him doing it in the first place, and to once again make an assumption I couldn't imagine the place was big enough to really be useful. Obviously I wasn't there so I can't see the big picture but like most private property in game I would say it landed in the bad type of property category.
What I would classify as a good "private" property can be found in one of Twisted's videos which was something I personally built.
It is:
1). Far enough from the main town to not be an eyesore or take up space.
2). In general, it is mostly self-sufficient. You do need an axe/hoe/knife generally and some water IF you aren't gathering wild berries to feed sheep but due to the track line I always paid it forward for things I used/borrowed by sending them back food.
3). Allows players to come and go as they please. Generally speaking when I build a fishing hut/area I use snow doors so people can't take without being ginger, however I find most people don't just loot areas like this anyways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R26u2qAQ57s
Of course the place has issues because generally speaking it's too small for all the people you see in it, it might be a bit too far from town though thankfully the tracks work as a trail, and generally speaking not enough worms to go around so those extra poles are mostly useless.
Overall, I do think something like this is what Jason would like to see when it comes to family goals. You see me, twisted, and my other kids basically all working together in the video (though I'm doing a lot of the grunt work like yarn collecting + skewers). Each family member is either fishing, cooking, teaching, or raising children and honestly it feels really good which is why when I play I like to only play ginger female atm.
OHOL is not a game like Tetris, or Oxygen Not Included, or many others where one looks at an apparently static image with changes taking place to the apparently static image over time. Players will stand still when talking, or when a streamer talks to their audience. But, other than that they will often be moving, and the stop screen feature doesn't gets used that frequently. It's a big exaggerated of an analogy, perhaps, but the aesthetic appeal of a runner gets better understood through seeing the runner in motion rather than seeing a static photograph of that runner. Assuming that players aren't zooming in and out in Survive Together, and other things are similar, the dynamic nature of the games will often make Survive Together look better than some of the previous comments suggest.
The art is ugly and not in a good way. You're full of shit as always. It's okay for games to be unaesthetic but pretending that in its current form is going to be anything other than an ugly mess is a lie and you should be ashamed.
Ugly OHOL would still be ugly ohol. The first thing that caught my eye was the art and after watching the game it was love at first sight.
Ugly game looking like ass makes it harder to want to jump into even if it's the better version just like YaH is the better ohol but the controls are hard to get used to.
Looking at the main page Jason has led to the deaths of over 7.4 million people so he might have done something wrong unless you're one of those Jason deniers.
One person has you cursed it makes it a stalemate - You spawn as a normal Eve to prevent them from basically blacklisting you. Add in a second person and you're straight up sent to DT instead of spawning as a normal Eve.
And that sounds pretty bad. I'd recommend a github post to see if he won't do something about fixing this mechanic as yet again something is borked for low pop.
Spoonwood wrote:DestinyCall wrote:I'd tolerate the food nerf if it ended racial specializations, but we are probably going to just get food nerfed without enough water to deal with the increased food consumption.
Be prepared to watch a lot of babies die while spamming F。
These are quotes from dev-changes:
"foodScaleFactor applied with ceil (instead of lrint) so that a food never rounds to 0 (like foodScaleFactor of 0.35 applied to popcorn)."
"eatBonus and foodScaleFactor now decline over the generations from Eve. eatBonus starts at 4 and eventually reaches 0, with a half-life of 50 generations. foodScaleFactor starts at 1.0 and eventually reaches 0.5, with a half-life of 50 generations."
I'll start carving tiny little baby coffins.
Make sure you eat your 10 one pip berries because that's a lot of hungry work for all those dead babies.
Fun is: The experience you get when you teach a new player how to do something and it finally clicks for them.
Fun is not: Spending 15 real life minutes trying to catch a guy hiding in the desert as he kills all your sheep.
Fun is: Choosing your own path and building something greater for everyone to enjoy.
Fun is not: Remember you screwed up a tool slot somewhere and now have to spend the rest of your life missing out on what you wanted.
Fun is: Helping Eve slowly start and grow a family that we keep on moving along.
Fun is not: Looking at your character model and releasing you're the wrong color.
Fun is: Building a small family home and working with your children to survive off the land.
Fun is not: Walking around for 30 minutes looking for another family because they're too spread due to an apocalypse or lack of knowledge of locations.
I can't give you a straight definition of "fun" but I can tell you what isn't fun easily. Some of your worst updates have been exactly that - not fun. The rift, race restrictions, tool slots. All of these drained the creativity out of the game for the sake of some "fun" that was never found.
Some guy wants to hunt rabbits, so he's using carrots and berries to make bait.
We're low on compost, and the sheep need feeding too. Even just straight up eating the berries and carrot might be a better use of those food resources (three cooked rabbits is 36 food, where the berries alone would be 42 food).
In that situation, would you say, "Feel free to use our last food to hunt these rabbits?"
Imagine a situation where the proper management of resources meant the life (vs. death) of the entire town.
That is currently an imaginary situation, except in Eve camps.
Well, another example might be making the first diesel engine, when we're about to run out of water, and then using that engine to make a car instead of a pump.
Maybe you don't use a property fence to protect your engine while you work on it, but you use some system to manage it, to make sure it's used to save the village and not lost or stolen or misused along the way.
"Did you know there's a bunch of wild berries in the southern green biome? You can take a bowl down there and even collect up wild carrots so you can make bait." Or I'm just going to go grab a cart and start hauling berries + wild carrots because why would I sit in a starving town? Maybe a new player doesn't know any better but it's very clear that they also don't go and tap the abundance of free resources.
In Eve camps I just tell my kids to go collect eggs so we can cut down on adults having to eat low pip foods while boosting ourselves past the soft cap. If my kids are too dumb to fetch them then I'll do it instead of starting steel tools since dead kids don't need a shovel. Sometimes, you just let the kids die because killing everyone is worse than whatever score negative I can get from one or two children.
In relation to the engine thing just wait to make the engine until you actually need the thing instead of making it and sitting on it. You don't need the engine for the oil grind, and even if you're out of water you only need 5-6 buckets worth to whip up an engine anyways. And even if someone puts the engine on the car you've specifically talked about fixing this exact issue by talking about allowing us to just remove the engine from the car which fixes the issue too.
The only thing that cannot be reasonably solved is something like being the last person in a town as I can't clone myself. If I leave I'm better off just living with my new family or just trying to ring a bell or tidy the place up.
I'd tolerate the food nerf if it ended racial specializations, but we are probably going to just get food nerfed without enough water to deal with the increased food consumption.
Be prepared to watch a lot of babies die while spamming F。
Haha just build buildings dummy hurr durr durr.
Again with the nerfing of stuff for the sole sake of muh difficulty without adding anything interesting or fun to the pot. This has pretty much been the theme since the end of the rift - nerf the fun, replace it with """difficulty""" in hopes of making things better. I can't imagine how much ass the game is going to feel like in the midweek let alone if Jason gets sick or goes on vacation.
Fug, what is the reason that managed resources are so much less efficient than unmanaged resources?
I don't think that "bouncing between lineages" has anything to do with it. Throwing resources in a communal pile is something that you do now, in this life, and not across lives. You're not paving the way for yourself to wander in as an outsider and take from that pile in your next life.
I'm trying to come up with a thought experiment. Suppose you are baking pies, and half the people in the village are well-dressed, and the other half are naked. The naked people are burning through food much faster and wasting your pies, but does it matter to you? If they are your genetic relatives, you want to keep them alive regardless, so they don't hurt your score. And what are the chances that we actually run out of food, sometime soon? Probably pretty low chances.
I think there's a general feeling that the way we spend these resources doesn't matter. Efficiency and "wise use" doesn't matter.
In an early camp, you might be pretty livid if someone wasted a burdock on a half-full baby instead of saving it for the Eve who is nursing. That one misstep might actually doom the entire camp.
Later on, wasting resources might matter long-term in the abstract, but it really doesn't matter right now, in any tangible way.
Of course, managing resources takes time (and thus resources). If the benefit of management is perceived to be dwarfed by the cost of management, then people won't manage their resources.
I've never been satisfied with how food pressure felt in later-stage towns.
I want to keep the naked people alive regardless because I would like to come back to the town in the future to continue whatever I was doing. It's better for me to start handing out even the most simply crafted clothing (straw hats, mouflon hides, rabbit shoes, rabbit loin cloths) than for me to sit around snuffing my nose at them. Maybe they're new and don't know how urgent clothing is? Maybe they're just lazy and don't want to make it but it's better for me to improve everyone rather than dicking on them for not dressing.
I don't even lock up my fishing huts on main server and frankly doing so does no one a favor even if they steal or loot the place as its helping someone somewhere with whatever they're doing and you know what? That's okay. I can restock it with nets, I can restock it with rods, and I can restock it with people. Me being selfish and gating off the ability for people to enjoy what I do is just plain dumb. On the other hand, any time I have seen someone make a private property its ALWAYS mismanaged with people taking in more than they ever produce. I bet even when you did a milkweed farm in your little fenced area you grew eight or so and thought you were making a "noticeable" difference.
I take a cart, hoe, bucket, and bowl and I can produce much more milkweed than I'm going to need so why don't I just give it away? Unused resources have the same value as nonexistent resources as a rope sitting in a box kept away is just as useful as the same rope not existing.
By keeping resources to myself and potentially killing non genescore family I only hurt myself and to be frank I've stopped caring about gene score as it was causing me to essentially afk instead of playing the game. I'd rather have 6 slots and play than to have 8 and be stuck in this loop where I play only to live.
http://onehouronelife.com/fitnessServer … il&id=1797
I'm 562nd out of 573 when I used to be in the mid to high 40's regularly. I've just realized how little I was enjoying the game when I focused on gene score instead of playing for good lives and I think I'll stick to the ideology.
But if you already know the stuff yourself, why would you want your baby to learn the same thing?
You probably want your baby to spend slots learning the stuff you don't know yourself, to complement (not overlap) your own tool set.
Because not all skills are useless to have redundant people knowing?
Shrimp net
Fishing rod
Axe
Hoes
Pencil
Shears
Mallet
Shears
Hot coals
Oven
Shovel
In all my lives I've been playing I've had multiple people always learning shrimp net, hot coals, and generally something like shears or knife due to how we've been living. All of these things are useful in a case where you're living in a small area with members of your family. Its fun to cook together else why would everyone rush to grab a pie when the oven is hot? You clearly don't need multiple people to cook but you almost always see people doing it together and the same can be applied here.
People give you a reason to bring a baby around with you from the fire and you act like it's bad for them to potentially learn your own skills and that just feels silly.
Higher cooldown just equals more bells you change nothing besides the multiple bell city being more meta. Again you think nerf without actually taking any real context in what it would do to actually effect the game (nothing at all.)
Adding difficulty effects only the people who are hit by it the hardest which are new players. You could give food values invisible negative values instead of positive and guess what? Veteran players would still thrive and new players would still starve out in the masses. Once you get over the difficulty gap this game basically becomes mind numbingly easy and every attempt to make it "harder" is just extra tedium disguised as difficulty. Making this game harder won't improve it at all in my opinion unless it's basically turning ez mode off (which still doesn't add real difficulty.)
The game should embrace the fun parts such as crafting with your family, raising kids, and finding your niche in civilization and really shining through. You have to do things that make sense to the players if you want to see something play out as we're not a bunch of idiots. Jason was basically warned exactly what the meta would become if he went through with racial specialty - People would just group up together and ignore the mechanic because self segregation and family loyalty aren't a thing in this game. You play for the city and if your kids decide to hangout with you that's awesome but just not how the game goes.
I recommend actually playing the game and seeing what its like instead of sitting on the benches pretending you know how it plays.
As Morti said fences are and have always been terrible for anything except free sheep pens. It makes zero sense for someone who is going to bounce around different lineages to basically horde items and be much MUCH less efficient than joining in with the rest of the town to create resources.
The amount of times I've seen someone put up a fence, take a hoe, and a full bucket of water is high enough and do you know what happens? They grow 4 milkweed or eight bushes, something so insignificant towards anything and everything its embarrassing honestly. It's better to just mass produce milkweed knowing on some level that some of its going to get wasted than to put up the effort to make a private farm that gets completely outproduced anyways.
Swords were literally created to force players to use fences and if you look back you can see the debate on how useless they were at actually defending people. Fences are/were dumb, swords were incredibly dumb, and honestly this weird Jason fever dream caused much more harm than good in my opinion.
Numbers where going down before all the updates you're upset about, so you're really looking in the wrong places.
Sure you can tell when you're not having fun but the reason why or what to do about it is a little more obscure.
One day: "We want to build big civilizations"
The next day: "Big towns are boring"
People like variety and under the current game that's just not very possible.
Everyone is shoved into big towns because it's not viable for people to run off and start new towns because of racial restrictions. This means mega towns are the only real viable way of play therefore "big towns are boring" because you're always stuck in the same few bell towns as soon as a bell gets completed.
Because "big towns are boring" people want to make new civilizations but as soon as they run off the smart kids will just leave to the bell since you can't actually live there. All the pseudo eves try to make a claim but it doesn't work unless she specifically brings another race over during her next life and notice how I don't say trade because they're basically one soul moving back to the same spot to be viable.
Next issue of course is racial restrictions in the first place because they cut a bunch of content without adding anything to make up for it. I don't know about anyone else in this thread but everyone knows I like to build fishing huts and go fish which means I can only specifically play as ginger if I want to enjoy my time playing. I was just afking for literal hours to not hurt my meme score but I came to the conclusion - Why the fuck am I playing ohol to sit in a little hut instead of playing? So now I just /die to ginger. Sure, I've lost two to three slots now but 5-6 works fine IF I already have a fishing hut built. The game is definitely more enjoyable now but at the cost basically only being allowed to fish vs doing anything else.
The game is boring/bad/whatever because Jason keeps taking things away and not filling the void he left. First he takes away 99.9999%+ of the map then leaves us to basically massacre each other for months, next he frees us just to impose a rift like feature where every family has to be close to each other to function AND he cut away content from all the different races. The game is basically about one player moving family A to family B so that new brown/black/ginger people pop up in the proper town instead of trade or any other goofy ass idea.
I like the idea of learning something from your parents, your family, the world around you.
Maybe you could learn from seeing what people around you do when you are a baby and if someone does something enough times and you see them do it (vision field/screen) then you learn it and could get that skill for free, having 1-2 slots dedicated to learning seems reasonnable.
But if nobody shows you anything then you lose those 1-2 free slots, so it's up to your family to either show you how to do stuff (have you around while they craft) OR dump you on the fire and feed you every now and then.
More realistically you shouldn't be able to learn more complex tools before the age of at least 6-7 for basic ones and then even later for the even more complex ones (unless you're specially gifted, very high genetic score???) but probably should skip this for now as it's not currently relevent to add it
Issue with this idea in my opinion is you're likely to learn either really random stuff if its based off default view due to most baby fires either being near the smith or bakery. As again the whole idea around this thread is to encourage children to do stuff with their family (stuff like fishing is a great boon in this area), try to remove the ability to have a completely useless tool slot skill set, and remove some of the derpiness from the system in general.
fug wrote:You might need someone to learn the file so people can cut bread but the file has exactly three real uses: Make a knife, make a saw blade, or change a key.
The file is also used when making funnels and wine glasses. Still a really one-note tool tho.
Forgot a lot about glass stuff because I don't have the tool slots to do glassware most lives lmao.
Now, we may still be able to discover something valuable here about a fundamental mechanical problem (picking tools to learn as a child before you have enough information needed to make such a permanent decision?).
I mean to break the tool issues down quickly it looks like this:
Broken or nonsense tools.
- Healing only requires knife for most healing recipes. In an ideal world you actually need to know pads, sewing, + knife to cure but that has literally never been the case since the system came out. Sterilized knife is only used for snake bites vs arrow wounds where you need to sterilize the knife to treat the wound.
- Same issue with the newcomen roller where you learn the sword skill while recycling one into a rod. ??? It's a tax that has also been in there since the introduction of tool slots.
Unrefined groupings.
- Stone hatchet really either needs to be a freebie or covered under the steel axe. As of currently it's essentially just an Eve tax and late game is a trap option for players to learn.
- The whole smithing thing is laid out goofy as can be. You should be learning kiln + forge and not tongs + kiln to be doing smithing/pottery. Fixing this allows there to be a difference between a potter and a blacksmith which in the title example showed how these tools don't separate the jobs at all. Remove the tong tax and replace it with a proper tool.
- Stuff like fishing/shrimping should be grouped together like stone hoe/steel hoe and the various thread needles. Shrimping is basically for children as it has an age 3 limit and is renewable mostly while fishing has an age requirement and constantly requires the player to fetch more and more worms. A lot of things really should be grouped a bit better as more tools for the sake of more tools just leads to traps and crap options.
Permanent learning.
This is something that can be incredibly annoying due to how niche some tools uses are which makes these tools annoying to learn for only one use. Newcomen Drill I'm looking at you reaaal hard.
Permanence leads to having to choose between doing what is right and doing what you want. You might need someone to learn the file so people can cut bread but the file has exactly three real uses: Make a knife, make a saw blade, or change a key. This means if you learn the file 9.9/10 times you're picking it up to use once and then you're stuck with it.
So lets talk potential fixes:
Items that should be groups for tool slot management:
1). Shrimp net + Fishing rod.
2). Stone hatchet + Steel axe.
3). Knife + Sterilized knife
4). Literally all the newcomens should go under one thing. Fuck the newcomen tax which also requires tongs too.
5). Diesel engine tech should all be combined or at least water pumps + mining rigs. I can understand cars and planes being separated because you actually drive them but both water pump + mining rig is you just putting oil into the thing...
6.) Elder note pen + charcoal pencil. Elder note pen isn't a tool and it seems really fishy you can just learn to write with a pen at age 55 but pencil has been a mystery for your whole life.
Fixing niche issues:
1). Remove tongs as a tool. Replace tongs with forge (kiln should be learned when using pottery on it NOT when covering with adobe.)
2). Either allow for a fluid period for tools OR allow people to potentially forget a tool or two. It's incredibly shitty to ask someone to learn a useless tool to help you out (looking at you newcomen drill, file, and potentially bow drill.)
3). Current system requires you to basically run around picking up items to see who knows what this is why a title system was suggested to (quickly) learn who would have some idea of what tools a player has.
Stuff that just needs fixed:
1). Healing in general. Pads are only learned when crafting and maybe cleaning, you can't learn sewing on a human and don't need it. Sterilizing a knife doesn't learn sterilized knife but instead learns the knife skill. Treating anti-venom is the only possible way to learn the sterilized knife at the moment.
2). Shouldn't be able to learn weapons on ghosts, shouldn't be able to learn sword on friendly units, shouldn't be learning sword by recycling it.
3). Using an item on the kiln should learn the skill not just covering it with adobe. It feels weird I can do pottery with just tongs alone even if it is wasteful.
4). Do literally anything with the stone hatchet. Make it free or combine it with axe. It's existence currently is just to count as something against eves.
TL;DR: Current tool slot issues revolve around items that are too niche or have one use, some things don't even work properly, permanence with tool slots leads to bad types of choices and traps, and some stuff is just nonsense or should be changed/removed.