a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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I've named a son Ra after Sun Ra.

Space is the place.
@grim, why return to home marker every time ? Why not after going SE, go N, and return to home marker SW (the NE home marker route), saves time and gives extra area searched (if you want to use that pattern).
But sry, have nothing to add-except was born to wannabe-eve w/o bowl but with pies and such, the place looked so bad I seeked out (after making some bowls and fetched carrotseeds to her and new kin) where she started from- it was nearby, two old ppl there I guess they quarreled or something). Finding the large camp was rather easy then. I don't know how to search by name or anything the like so didn't even know if I'd find anyone alive.
Greep asked me the same thing with the last.thread, and its probably more of a personal preference thing. I dont think it's ever been completely tested, but I feel like you travel faster in a diagonal and can actually cover more ground quicker. I shoot from like north east, jet through my home marker and then go south west. Then the other two directions making an X.
While you could just go from north east to south east, I feel like it might take longer. If something like a town is directly east, there should be signs north and south of it. If I run diagonally and do see those signs, then I will push north or south to find it.
You biome lock people and I guarantee you never see a car made again in this game.
People don't travel more than 100 tiles outside the village for anything but iron and alum.
Now you want to make everyone travel for a resource that isn't going to be there 95% of the time?
Welp guess my prairie family has mastered rabbits and wheat... Too bad that's all we are going to get because there's nobody else around us and nowhere else to go.. hope you like catching rabbits my son little jimmy, cause that's what you're going to be doing this whole life.
As far as pencil man milton's definition goes, he pretty much proves that we have free market in game. How many people who use the iron for tools actually knows where it came from? How many people eating those berries will never make or even question where the compost they used came from? We all do a job for a final outcome, and that outcome is civilization.
Hey all, since we are probably not going to ever use coordinates to find others practically again, and since Jason wants it basically impossible for villages to connect (Area ban, how needlessly huge the eve spiral is) I am updating my previous explorers post..
Have you ever been the last of a once thriving village, or been birthed to an eve who had no idea what she was doing?
Well rather than talking to your brother and uncle about the town being dead, or trying to pathetically tell your mom she started in the worst spot, or intentionally stepping on a snake, Ol' Grim's got an option for ya. Go out and find something or someone!
Thanks to thundersen (and others) I have finally begun to develop a system for searching that will net you the best results and increase the chance of you finding other established towns, both living and dead. Ill try to break this down into basic parts
So whatever circumstances placed you in this scenario where finding others is now your goal, the first step should to always choose a starting point in which to search. The very first thing that should be done is place a home marker for reference. Now that you have a start, The next step is knowing HOW and WHERE to travel.

Using birth coordinate data mixed with eve spiral info, the best route is heading diagonal directions of NE, SE, SW, NW. Spawn points are often only 250 to 500 tiles away from eachother diagonally (albeit they can be at different times..Ill touch on this in a moment) What I do is choose a diagonal direction and head at least 700 to 800 tiles that way. Only 500 if looking for other live people. If nothing is found then I head back to my home marker or starting point and travel the opposite diagonal direction another 700-800 (or 500) tiles. All that distance traveled you SHOULD be looking for signs of player presence in the landscape ( Cactus bearing flowers or fruits, family rabbit holes, geese eggs ect.) If you find something worth stopping the searching at this point by all means check it out. If nothing is found, head back to start and travel the other diagonal directions you haven't gone yet.

OK, now that you have traveled all four diagonal directions and hopefully found old eve starts or signs of activity (sharp stones, old graves, ect) but probably not too much else. In the hypothetical example I am using lets say every star point is a sign of activity you have found. You must now find which diagonal direction has given you the most results, and then go that way (that is why its important to travel the full 800 if looking for older ruins, even if you found something before that.) The diagonal direction which gives the most signs of activity will usually keep yielding results when gone in, and sometimes seems to lead you into older ruins of previous days.
If you travel in a half diagonal, half north or south mix it is possible to actually ride in the rings of eve starts.

*THINGS TO KNOW*
Horses are your friend. Even if you dont have, or find a dead village that doesn't have a horse, If the tools are there to make one its advised to take the time to get one.
You have a better chance at finding non related LIVE people the younger the generation you are. A generation 2 or 3 person has a waaaaay better shot of finding others non related than someone generation 30.
It takes roughly 4 to 5 minutes to travel 800 tiles on foot, so if looking for different no relation people travel 500 tiles in each direction FIRST not 800 to maximize the chance of finding.
Avoid jungle! It might not be the fastest, but if you can go around a jungle or go through it at a very shallow point it is highly recommended.
If no horse, cart, or backpack, at least make a basket for your traveling.
Hey you're back! I was going to rewrite my exploration thread now that the coordinates are gone. I wouldn't have been able to write that first one without that old plot ![]()
I usually have faith in you jason, but you gotta understand how it can look to someone who buys this game and see something like this

This was actually one of my first times ever playing this game. My mom handed me this and said "well I guess the games broken.." Thankfully I checked the fourms and saw that it would be fixed the next day or so, but some people would see something like that and get turned off.
Sure it was unlucky timing to start and not everyone had an experience like that, but not everyone who plays this game knows its ONLY you working with all this stuff.
I remember at a local design meeting here in town, my designer friend Jared Johnson came up with a list of important player roles in a village:
--Farmer
--Baker
--Smith
--Builder
--Herder
--Cook
--Tool maker
--Hunter
--Trapper
--Griefer
Tailor is missing. As a new found tailor I am hurt
Haha
Im usually also herding though when I get the cows for milk and yellow dye.
Milkweed seeds in a bowl will also not cart.
Now do it on shrooms ![]()
Getting all the way to 16 gens with the deep well seems a little problematic to me, and some of these deep wells weren't even close to empty. I don't think I ever saw a town with more than two deep wells. Some of these places had other Newcomen machinery around, just not pumps.
I can hammer out a newcomen pump in a life no problem, but there are a couple reasons not to.
The town might not even last long enough to drain all the water in the first place. Maybe nobody got the iron or spent it all on those other pieces of machinery.
The town might not even use it after you make it and pass it on. About 50% of players right now wouldn't be ae to fire up a charcoal (let alone diesel) pump and fill a cistern, so it's nice to have wells of all tech branches for people that just know deep wells or basic wells.
But historically, where did last names come from, before the solidified to track male lineages? A lot of them seem to be occupational. So it does seem that individual men picked or were assigned last names at some point, and then those names were passed down after that to track male lineages. It kinda boggles the mind. There are so many last names in the world (millions), and each one currently has a unique Y chromosome associated with it, essentially, which means that at some point long ago, there were millions of unique men starting lines, but where did they all come from, and how did they become unique?
Yeah basically last names were usually job titles carried over to name.
Smith, Miller, Baker, Taylor(tailor) all work names.
My friend is an english guy with the last name baker, and when you look at his family you can totally imagine his family being bakers by profession in 17th through 19th century london. They're genetics are crazy and they all have rather fat faces no matter how skinny they actually are.
My last name in German translates to roughly "fly fishing" so somewhere along my families history they probably were a little fishing community. And all this is before they even sailed to America in the 17th century.
I had an idea for families that I was going to make a post about but ill break it down here.
Have family specialties.
I am eve grim. I choose to smith. Now every tool my family makes has a less chance to break because I passed my smithing expertise to them. It could also be like.. I am eve grim, I choose to bake. Now any cooked food gives a bonus (maybe a doubble yum?).
Less off-the wall is something where OHOL is always played right around the center, instead of an auto-spiral exploring further and further into fresh territory. Resources will run out, and people will need to go further and further on their own, which will eventually become impractical. Though migration would still be possible. Migration itself is an interesting story, but much more interesting if you're migrating into a civilized area rather than endless wilderness. Early OHOL was effectively played this way, and there was a major milkweed shortage in the middle of the map.
Anyway, a finite or fixed map of some kind could create a new "meta meta" arc in the game, where civilizations rise and fall for a while, and interact and conflict with each other, but eventually the whole thing crashes, and the server wipes the map.
And there's still a question about why anyone would care to fight over the limited resources along the way, up before the meta-meta crash.
Looking for thoughts here.
I'm in support of this.
While I like finding a over 7 day old lost town that some eve happened to spawn in (shouts out to kate town) the eve spiral is too damn big jason.
If you had your property fences in the old apocalypse town or 8 eve town, where mostly everyone was gathered, then you would have seen all kinds ove conflict over ownership.
Yeah, what's the deal with lag in the last week?
I played today, and saw no lag.
Though I did get a connection drop twice (but was able to reconnect instantly). I've never personally seen a connection drop before.
When I have a moment tonight ill try to link a vid of twisted here where he sees the character lag and ill timestamp it.
I feel like it's a problem with the connection drops as well, and I get hit with them a lot more often than i usually did. I can reconnect,but its still bad to have it happen 3 or 4 times a life like I have lately.
Well, I can make the 60 seconds longer. I'll make it 5 minutes for now.
The point is, people used to be able to curse you by name for a whole hour after you died. I'm pretty sure that was mostly abused.
The family thing is a shortcut to "stop it from being server-wide". This is what stream sniping is all about (knowing someone by name from the stream, even if you aren't in their town).
I could also make it so that you have to be physically near someone to curse them. However, limiting it to inside a family does a few other things:
1. Allows wars/rivalries/raids/etc between families (something I'm looking to encourage anyway).
2. Maybe encourages you to build a tow-wide fence/gate, to keep out griefer Eves.
3. Is a step toward weening you off curses as a way to deal with griefers, now that you have fences (and will in the future have other mechanics too, maybe).
Multi-lineage towns are possible, but I don't think they're the norm, currently.
You say that but there have been many times the griefers would come into discord complaining about getting cursed past thier comfort level.
The curses after lives helped punish them. If someone went around town killing only fertile females running into the wild, and coming back and killing more, I would write their name down and curse them again when I got my token back.
They know how to grief to a CERTAIN limit and abuse the curse system. Now you're just giving them more room to wiggle around punishment..
Also the horrendous lag in the last week has not helped. Pvp when people fly across screen and disappear in front of you is rough. I also stabbed someone 3 or 4 tiles behind me while chasing in front of me.. so something is off there.
Game looks like crap with the zoom mod, so it will never be official.
The hardcore players don't get this, but part of the game's widespread appeal is the close-in, personal nature of the whole thing. Being able to see the characters and their interactions.
And furthermore, this is what makes the game so great for videos.
Note that none of the most popular videos are using the zoom mod. Even Twisted, as into the game as he is, does not use the zoom mod in most of his videos.
In other words, if this game shipped, originally, with a 2x zoom by default (20x14 tiles visible instead of 10x7), I'm pretty sure the game would have made half the money that it made, and that it would be dead by now with no players or community.
So, yeah, if you're hardcore, feel free to use the zoom mod.
But please realize why it should not be rolled into the official game.
Fair points and pretty true.
But you can't see yourself adding a guard tower or some kind of looking tower eventually? If its something built, it shouldn't hurt the original view, and can be used as a tool.
This likely one of the better designs I can come up with that's mostly reasonable to put up in a village.
http://i.imgur.com/7YyLsm5.jpg
This new design is a combination of cold and hot buildings which allows a room to have a fire without cooking the heated room or having to do weird tiny rooms/leave the fire outside. The only real issue with something like this is fire placement within the room as with the hallway I put on the building moving the cold room fire to an inappropriate spot will heat the hot biome room. To combat this issue either a door can be added to the hallway or a special tile such as a bear rug or stone floor could be placed where the fire is now. Fences were used for a cheap sheep pen to ensure sheep could be added near the bakery without much hassle.
Buildings still take quite a lot of time to put up without having access to a horse cart at the time of building but this project took about an hour and a half to fully complete (first life was doing wall work, second life was flooring and putting up the pen.) I think times could definitely be cut down by getting help earlier and making sure to have a horse cart available when it comes time to move stones.
I woulda helped again if i was there!
Also wtf is that green dot in the picture? Above the corner pillar on the left.
Edit*
That's a snowball huh tarr ![]()
But someone might use the fences appropriate lel.
Seriously though, the fences should decay if the kindling piles are left on the ground after like ten minutes. No one in their right mind is going to walk around and pick up 100+ random fences especially when they can be placed just as fast as you can try to pick them up. The game already suffers from a bunch of random clutter everywhere and this update just adds for even more unwanted clutter.
Agreed, and I hope it does get cleaned up.
Yep that'll do it. Like the tutorial bug with getting trapped in the cut reed bundles
My experience was literally just those people building outside of town building and just taking whatever resources they wanted from the town, back to their land.. I mean its normal in this game to take from town.. but maybe it occurs at double the rate as usual now..
Just a lot of old fence relics, and looted sites.
I did have a guy yell at my daughter for being in his yard, and had to run and grab her.
I think they said keep it... lol
I was there earlier today before the update and dyed some hats blue and battled a griefer. Ill give you the fam name when I get home in a few hours.
Before that I have no clue, but like you said it's oldddd. Pre locked bugs man, i thought they were gone forever!
You know my thoughts on this spoon. You're gonna wear one of my yellow hats one day, whether you like it or not ![]()
Why do you think that "property rights" entails "starving off" the rest of the village?
The grocer owns the groceries, and you can't just walk in and take groceries. The grocer is apparently hoarding all of the food, and starving out the rest of the town. In fact, the only way I can get food, currently, is to get it from the grocer. And yet, almost no one in western civilization starves to death. How is that possible?
Even in communist regimes, food was not just free for the taking by whoever wanted it. It was tightly controlled and rationed.
In a well-functioning village, who eats the pies? The 3-year-old kids? The grandparents? The griefers? If the pies are just sitting there, there will be a bunch of waste.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
The key word there is "needs," not "wants," let alone, "wildest dreams."
Your right people dont usually steal groceries, but they will steal the expensive things like razors and baby formula. Then resell them and go buy groceries from the same store.
People always abuse the system or try to shortcut the rules, its human nature.
Even in those communist communities people still starved. It was often abused and worked around as well.
If your stuck with people of the same needs you should have the same abilities.. But it's not that simple in life or this game EVER, because everyone else has different abilities, needs, wants, and wildest dreams.
The reason we have any progress in this game is because we mostly understand what we want, and do it until it gets done.
jason put these in fan art ![]()
Yeah, so the story of the queen who "claimed" the bakery during a low-pop time is exactly the kind of interesting dynamic that I want to create here. Why is this bakery yours, young lady? Oh, because your great grandmother claimed it, when no one was looking? Does that rightfully make it yours?
This kinda stuff:
https://youtu.be/fasTSY-dB-s?t=408
Note that killing someone to clear their gate isn't the only option. You can also threaten them, either individually or collectively. There is stills strength in numbers. So if, down the road, the village decides that this "royal family" doesn't own the bakery after all, they have options.
That story is currently impossible in the game as it stands, because you can just walk off with the pies, and it doesn't matter what people claim about ownership. Yes, walls and locks are possible, but these things are trans-generational projects.
So, I'm looking for a way to bootstrap this kind of stuff without completely overhauling the entire building system in the game.
While this is one way to get people introduced into the idea of what you are trying to accomplish, I dont think its going to carry the weight you want it to right away.. my only advice is make more rare items.
You gave an example of pies. If they own all the pies big whoop, i can easily make another bakery and churn out the pies in my life.
Now if they own something I cant feasibly get in that life, or something that I could only get through passing down(something more physical than property rights) you will see more of what I think you want.