a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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fug wrote:1 soil was used for conserving on hoe usage.
I think you mean soil usage there, fug.
It's strange to call something like 2-soil tilling a 'noob trap', when probably most vets use to farm that way.
Two soil wasn't the noob trap, three soil was because no where in game does it explain you should be moving soil with a bowl.
Also bring back double soil tilling! Why was it removed??
Basically the original reason was because:
3 soil was used for farming if you didn't do pottery first (waaaay back when the game was released this was a thing)
2 soil was used for if you cared to do pottery before farming (which had been meta forever)
1 soil was used for conserving on soil derp.
He nerfed arctic farming and I explicitly asked if he would just move 3 soil farming to arctic only which he decided was okay but didn't want to actually change the code for biome blocking so he just left everything as 3 soil or 1 soil because "having a two till option left a noob trap."
Combination of not wanting to undo a derp update + the meta completely shifted from one of the options because it was basically just wasteful to do so.
Some might not view as necessary but a buff to the current "end-game" transport, Cars and Planes. Logically they should better than the horse.
There has to be room for the engine!111!! - Jason's response to asking about buffing dead higher tech content. Planes and cars don't really make sense though planes make a little but they're too easy to grief. Feels dumb seeing a horse cart hold eight diesel engines and a car hold only four.
I really dislike how the correct move for Eves is to move into a town. I always feel like this is a design fail when the game moves into the direction when the best style of play for early game is to just not do it.
Race specialization is also a fail in my book as I dislike essentially having to kill myself to the proper race to do things I like to. Universal translator is nice but basically worthless if there aren't other races around. Blacks are great if you want to help out other towns as horses speed up travel and are basically needed anywhere. Tans are boring as sin and I actively avoid them like whites. Gingers are my favorite but even with 18 skill slots I'm not going to touch the oil grind because fuck that.
Really wish we could have had a return to the infinite map without the strings attached. I also wish lineages worked in the rift where there would only be a few but really strong lineages to prevent all the <1 day lineages we're seeing again. You would have reasons to have roads as towns would mostly be known even if still abandoned often.
The game isn't bad but it isn't exactly good for anyone who has played. We're still fundamentally on the same level we've been on since the game start just with more gimmicks added.
Pretty sure they're using the tutorial Eve exploit that Tarr was talking about. Basically, when you play as eve in tutorial, your score doesnt go down no matter at what age you die. So you spend 3-4 minutes to make 10 lives as an Eve in tutorial, die to the snakes asap and boom. Your average life expectancy is now 15 years. Keep playing to 60 for a few normal lives and then, when you start gaining too little, do it again. By doing that you automatically boost the score of your relatives aswell, since the score they get from you is based on your average life expectancy. People are circlejerking the system.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's exactly how they've gotten so high in so little time. He recently patched that but there's still another exploit out there if you know what you're doing to rake in massive points but as long as tool slots are tied to meme score cbf releasing that one lel.
Yeah I had to undo some waystones near bear towns oil rig myself today.
At the very least they should be easier to remove (shovel maybe for normal, then elder notice for ancient) or at the very least only let an elder be the one to strike it with a stone to deny the removal. Had to baby sit the waystones because someone came over and denied all of them while I walked away to actually play the game.
Another suggestion is just don't let them be built on floors. This means you could just put some snow floors around oil rigs or floors around normal things to prevent blocking.
Of course, not letting them block at all would also solve this issue as this exact issue only exists with things that go ancient (walls, bell tower bases, and waystones) which means one idiot can block things as a town is dying to fuck future generations.
I mean yeah, I was the only brown lineage on the server. In what world would I not walk to the main city on the server?
It makes absolutely no sense for Eves to start towns if the server isn't fresh especially if they're one of the required races for climbing tech. Eves shouldn't be out there making Eve camps because you're required to meet up with other families to succeed so as soon as you spawn the "correct" play is to just walk east until you find people or a city. Having race specialization basically makes making new towns silly unless the old towns are incredibly crappy.
Saolin wrote:Correct. I've hardly ever used the /die command. I used to when I'd get abandoned in the wilderness when born to a Mom on horseback. But since genetic fitness was implemented I wait until I starve now to punish them for it since they were making me take the fitness hit anyway, lol.
When /die was introduced as a fast relief against situations where you're abbandoned by your mom but, with the later twists, its usage is being avoided precisely in those situations
I honestly blame the high level forums for the /die issue. Jason was willing to let people choose their lives (which would have solved the die issue) but instead was talked into the life token system which still leaves us with plenty of /die babies along with a host of other issues such as:
-Running out of lives when the game is hectic. Basically, anytime the server goes into freefall the game can be unplayable for players either due to the massive famine, too many babies, or any issues of that nature.
-People still spam /die since once you reach ten deaths its free. You heard me right, it costs you about 3~ points last I just died my life expectancy to 0 but all these points are regained and more once you start living to 60 each life again. The only thing blocking you from this is the mental block of having to lose a "bunch" of points to get to this point. Sure, it would take three hours of solo lives to get those points back but you've got to remember you're going to have children who will also boost (or lower) your score.
-Now we have using /die to be the right race which feels dumb. I personally only like to play as ginger now since they're the only ones who get to do activities I find myself enjoying (fishing, building) which means I don't ever want to be the other three race options even if they have my favorite model in a different tone. Death is cheap because I don't die unless I want to and score doesn't matter because in the current meme score format is just about playing constantly to get high rank (aka more skill slots because rofl at people taking that thing seriously.)
Instead of having races have parts of a recipe make it so they only have access to finished recipes.
Gingers get stuff like fishing/shrimping in arctic and regular ponds (trout/bass for fishing, crawdads for shrimping), salted meat variants of foods for more yum foods, and maybe a cosmetic or special crop.
Tans get stuff like more fruit trees to "trade" saplings of to others. Let them grow nerfed banana trees, mango trees, figs, lemons, oranges, coconuts. Just don't balance them like mango trees for christ sake. Mangoes would likely at least be viable if they started with fruit as then they'd be the default firewood tree due to produce food as well. Also for browns you can give more vegetables make this the exotic food race where they spice our lives up with yummy new recipes.
Blacks get horses, special mines so that they become the dye related race where it's easy for them to give you many different colored sets of clothes. Toss in horses and horse breeding, and maybe something else special and boom now we have more interesting races instead of what we have now.
Tans are boring imo because you're so limited in what you can do (you can fry foods by yourself and pick bananas/grow tomatoes), blacks are needed but boring alone (you get horses which are always of great but I don't live lives to place horse collector.) and whites don't get anything but the ability to talk. At least gingers can make unique towns, can build mostly freely, and obtain food in a way that is pretty chill (though breedable worms would be great.)
My feeling is it was an accident initially, that became intentional when Jason decided to leave it as is instead of fixing it.
Pretty much this.
Basically he added a biome restriction that was bypassed by either two hitting, three hitting or planting things that didn't leave shallow rows. Someone reported this bug and I explicitly asked for it to come back because it allowed for little winter towns to exist (which imo are neat little places compared to all the boring samey town types.)
He then updated it to accept tilling of 1 or 3 in arctic BUT removed the two hitting because you need to add extra soil since you have to import all the soil which seemed reasonable. Unfortunately, then he decided he just wanted soil to be 1 or 3 because he didn't want to fix the issue then passed it off as fixing a noob trap.
3 soil tilling was only meta at the games very very early stages where people were carrying water to soil instead of soil to water via water skins. 2 tills existed as a means of saving soil once the meta was established to make your bowls right away and start farming after which made 3 soil tilling a new player trap.
We had talked about doing something like
3 soil = arctic farming
2 soil = iron efficiency
1 soil = soil efficiency
But then he just decided to not remove the biome restriction thing and removed 2 soil tilling from the game.
i constantly transport tools , backpacks, ore west.
i made a lot of that long road to the west.
i placed a lot of waystones, they serve ORIENTATION, by breaking monotony of a long road. They also make for a nice pen someday.
with waystones you can more easily tell at WHAT PLACEW alnong a long repeating straight road you are.this works fine, as ollman family is roughly half of the server population now.
Don't be dumb. I'd say its about time he introduces a higher tech way of replacing flat stones whether it be concrete (something like multiple use road fillers) or something just as simple as a way to make big stones into multiple flat stones. Basically, as we get further along we should see buffed ways to produce things instead of nerfs to current systems.
I don't think Jason is trolling us. That implies he is tormenting us on purpose and I believe he is genuinely trying to improve the game.
But I do think he is rather painfully out of touch with what people actually want/need.
Yeah, I don't think he's purposely out of touch so much so as he's out of touch via just not playing the game. It's no different from how players like me who sunk 2k hours into the game can have issues understanding how new players have issues. He plays the game one way, and can't see how we see things.
fug wrote:Why would you ever make extra froes? Nothing makes me cringe more than a bunch of extra froes and adzes just sitting around existing forever.
So I told an experienced low pop player who is not me and who has a large well-organized city about the pine floor change and she told me she knew, that wooden floors look better. I think I agree with her on that. Pein has argued elsewhere that we shouldn't underestimate motivation. Also, I constantly see players on streams not wearing shoes at all. So, if you're going to make a lot of buckets, carts, wood flooring, and clogs, extra froes and adzes make sense. But sure, if they sit around forever, that seems rather silly.
One froe averages 101 uses hence why they last so fucking long. Same goes with the adze though at least in its case to make a shoe requires two uses vs one. It's not very reasonable at all to make multiple froes because of this and the adze might as well not have extras on hand.
Extra froes are for people who don't use the search function on mods.
Extra adzes are for lazy people too.
Make extra shovels/hoes/axes and the rest should be on demand minus maybe files.
DestinyCall wrote:My biggest problem is that it is a pain in the ass to convince someone to keep making hoes for me. We have plenty of iron, usually. If no one is actively working the forge, it takes a while to find someone who has the necessary skill set.
I miss the time before tool slots.
...
Steel hoe should really have more uses. They break more than any other steel tool and RNG can kill them faster than a skewer. I've seriously had one break after six uses.
Yap i feel that. Just thought about making a run and spamming ton of shovels, hoes, axes and some chisels/froes. Dont get it when people smith they just do few tools or tools on demand. We should have shit ton of the basic tool available all time if not low on iron.
I mean c'mon smiths do your craft!
Why would you ever make extra froes? Nothing makes me cringe more than a bunch of extra froes and adzes just sitting around existing forever.
The berry bowl has different sprites for different numbers of berries. The bush has a different appearance depending on how many berries are left on the bush.
Couldn't using the empty bowl on the bush return a different result depending on the current state of the bush?
I'm a little fuzzy on how transitions work but that seems possible.
...
Also, that video was most likely from 2HOL or another modded client. To my knowledge, I don't think the main branch of the game has ever supported picking berries with a bowl, but that is an option in 2HOL.
Base game had the ability to pick berries by the bowl but with all things in game it wouldn't rip berries off a bush with <6 but would take all six if the bush had 6-7 thus wasting a berry. I'd honestly rather waste a berry here and there for the ability to skip clicking 12 times to fill a single bowl.
Isn't it supposed to fill the "+" bar now?
If that's not the case and there still is food waste then that's a bug
The problem is you waste food via overfilling an already full person and put those pips in their banked storage (which removes all but what their age group can hold.)
This means you can feed full pies to a baby or whatever for +4 pips which wastes the whole pie. Not only this you can just shove all the towns food into one of the hell spawns via mass forcefeeding.
No idea how to trigger it nor having the willingness to find it when we still have a bunch of QoL stuff unfinished from previous updates.
It's been reported to github but I believe we've come full circle where the only way to get fixes is to post issues onto the forums instead of the github again.
I kind of wish that donkeytown still let other griefers spawn as your children (it doesn't right?) so that it made kind of a good place / bad place dynamic. Why not let the players who cause outrage have outrage together? xD
You can still get babies as a donkey it's just rare to have 2/60 people so disliked that their both exiled at the same time. Getting sent to DT in the current version of the curse rework is pretty much reserved for 12 year olds and people with an IQ of a potato.
How many DING messages are you faced with currently?
Tool learning messages and new player messages, but that's it, right?
I mean, for this, you'd want some royal trumpets or something, I suppose. But I don't have any trumpets around here. That ding was made with a chime I have at home. Bell tower was made by slowing that chime down. Curse sound was made by making a discordant chord with that chime. Hunger sound was a chord on my Uke.
Slinky isn't complaining that we have a million ding sounds but the fact you could possibly spam the order command and start ping spamming people. You can't leave a group you've inherited from your mother until you're like 13/15 so this means depending on how often you can issue an order depends on how many pings someone has to listen to for about 1/4th of their life.
A good example of how to spam pings in this fashion is when two mischievous old people start spamming war/peace.
Can you unpack that Wuat? Seems to be working fine on this end.
I think I did that on purpose.... if you want to farm in the arctic, you need to import a LOT of soil.
There's no reason to till 3-piles otherwise, right? I mean, outside the arctic, why would you do that?
Because it's three till EVERYWHERE instead of just arctic.
You can only ever do 3 till OR 1 till now instead of the 3 v 2 v 1 method we talked about.
Males being useful in any sense? Idea has to go straight to the trash. Repost with a meme gimmick system that will be ignored for three months before fixing then it can be usable.
Useful males coming in spring 2021.
fug wrote:Got the title of supreme emperor before the simple title of Dad.
Feels memey and full blown roleplay instead of "realplay."
The realplay element of it is marking trusted and untrusted people for others without having to track everyone in the village down and keep typing the person's name in. It's pretty easy to dodge detection as a griefer even after being caught by one person because it's so tedious to try to escalate it as a thing anyone should care about and remember. This seems like it makes that process much more trivial
Seems a lot closer to a bunch of the other gimmick updates we've gotten in the past that don't go far enough and will be abandoned next week in search of the next gimmick to add. Except the part where the other gimmicks at least weren't a bunch of fluff titles and added something a bit interesting to the game.
Another week of check back next week to see if anything interesting is being added or broken content getting fixed up though I guess for fixes you just have to grief things in hope that gets his attention vs all the github posts.
Got the title of supreme emperor before the simple title of Dad.
Feels memey and full blown roleplay instead of "realplay."
fug wrote:Elsayal wrote:Is it not possible to add the last 1/8 from another bowl of butter ?
Nope, never needed to move butter from one bowl to another until this weird situation came up.
So you say nope but didn't try, huh ?
Well, it IS possible.
It's ofc not the best way but it's a workaround until it's fixed.
Yeah cbf testing at 4 am on a work night unfortunately. I knew exactly what the issue was preventing it from being made normally (7/8 charge butter being made when whipped cream is converted to butter) but obviously didn't think about the part of moving butter from one bowl to another.
In 2k hours of play I can't say I've ever wanted to move butter from one bowl into another bowl of butter.
fug wrote:(it has 7/8 charges left.)
Feast table requires 8/8 bowl of butter which is not currently possible in game due to Jason not getting around to fixing the bug that does this.
Is it not possible to add the last 1/8 from another bowl of butter ?
Nope, never needed to move butter from one bowl to another until this weird situation came up.
Posted to the news post + discord but here is why you can't make a feast table:
To make butter you need to use a skewer on whipped cream HOWEVER this removes one of the charges which means the butter isn't maxed (it has 7/8 charges left.)
Feast table requires 8/8 bowl of butter which is not currently possible in game due to Jason not getting around to fixing the bug that does this.