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#626 Re: News » Update: Feast and Fixes » 2019-12-07 07:16:19

fug

Absolutely hilarious the update is called feast and fixes but you can't make feasts due to a bug.

Whipping cream to butter takes one use off of a bowl of butter.

Bowl of butter requires maxed usage to be put on the table. This renders players unable to actually make the feast table.

Issue has been posted for a few days already.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/519

#627 Re: Main Forum » Infinite map is so fun » 2019-12-06 05:17:26

fug
Spoonwood wrote:
pein wrote:

1 family would have a map, the eve could choose a location and the map could re-centre around it, then receive bonuses based on their choices and upgrades. the travel location would be relative to it and a minimap could allow choosing other locations to go
this would swap out the time consuming and luck-based search to a cost-based search, it could still be a fog of war and a limit of distance, so exploring neighbours would be costly.
also, each family would be on a map, and the map would be active until the family lives, then the countdown to delete that map based on how long the family lived. if people want to revive it, they could do it for a few hours (maybe base 24 then the hours it lived). only the people who ever played there for at least 30-40 min. then if no one reviving it would be deleted. this would get rid of the bad camps and to be replaced with new active ones. so people would always be close but the travel would cost some effort (maybe tickets, some food, some special items to travel) plus coming back would cost some more. wouldn't eliminate the need for other families just make it a bit more sure if they can afford a few tries.

I don't think that would work for servers consistently low pop.

>implying low pop matters for anything.

Main server working > nothing > low pop. If the game has to be balanced around low pop you guys might as well move to a private server.

#628 Re: Main Forum » Idea: one kill per life? » 2019-12-06 05:10:38

fug
DestinyCall wrote:

If a griefer Eve keeps respawning close to you on a low population server, is killing her really a viable solution?   Feral eves just keep coming back to cause more problems.  Kill the same griefer five times.  What does it cost him?  Life is cheap for a killer.  Strike him down and he will just kill again in a different village.

I would rather see the game develop a system that addresses the true source of the problem - the player controlling all those feral Eves and random murderers, rather than using vigilante killing as a bandaid solution.   

The bottom line is that killing is NOT an effective long-term solution for serial griefing.   It just pushes the problem player onto someone else and lets him continue to be a problem for people who are trying to play cooperatively.   And being able to kill (or be killed) gives the griefer a cheap thrill and the rush of danger that comes from being the hunter and the hunted.  It rewards griefing and creates a fun challenge for the griefer to overcome - how to stab all the girls before the dumb villagers catch on.

Low pop balancing is dumb. Balance around people in a real server. Maybe extend curse timer for low pop to make up for it?

#629 Re: Main Forum » Idea: one kill per life? » 2019-12-06 03:51:58

fug

Guys we're clearling looking at this the wrong way. We just need to scale it off meme score! By having a high enough gene score you clearly are able to remove inferior genes via stabbing being a very good human.

Scale everything off the score.

Tool slots
How long you can live
How many people you can kill
How many times you can click an object.
How many times a pump works

Everything!

But in all seriousness the new players are always going to prey to more experienced players. I can't wait for three months of limiting updates now that we're done torturing players testing oil.

#630 Re: Main Forum » [Discussion] Tool or not. » 2019-12-06 03:04:10

fug

I still think this stuff should all be grouped instead of every item being a tool since we're still having to get fixes for every single individual item.

I'd rant about it here but I've done it plenty and the bug list for tools was updated a night or two after the update went live.

#631 Re: Main Forum » Infinite map is so fun » 2019-12-05 22:53:39

fug
jasonrohrer wrote:

Is it impossible?  No.  In the past week, the record for a lineage is 94 generations, and several fams lasted 60+ generations (15+ hours).

The thing is Tuesday night there was a period where it was completely impossible to trade even if people wanted to.

You had four lineages with two being gingers, one being black, and one being white (and a brown eve trying to spawn but either failing instantly or wasn't being triggered) and even if the whites/west side gingers wanted to climb the tech tree the blacks were 8k+ east in a bell town and the browns would spawn 10k+ west of the blacks in bell town.

2 hr trip back and forth just to get some rubber would be ridiculous by all standards and isn't difficult at all. As grim posted there is/was a bug that screws up the spawns of Eves which then makes a giant gap between the normal Eve spawns which can visibly be seen on any sort of detailed map.


It feels dumb that Eve play is once again about going and looking to find a city instead of trying to make a city from scratch because if you don't run into the right colored people you fail. All this limiting doesn't make the game feel any harder it just feels tedious because you can't figure out a way to make the game difficult for people who have nearly a year and a half experience.


The game isn't ever really going to be "hard" for any of the vets and just trickles down to the new players who join in. Why not focus on adding interesting things instead of focusing on half working gimmicks?

Tools still don't all work how they're supposed to and some tools seem silly (looking at you lasso especially when learning it by cutting it.)
Still can't recycle all the steel items and iron can't be recycled.


I get it'll take a lot of work to fix things but you're constantly adding more and more partially broken things on top of each other.

#632 Re: Main Forum » Auto-orient on ancient walls. » 2019-12-05 22:14:51

fug

Also would be nice if you aren't going to fix auto-orient to at least address some of the issues.

For example:

-Can't stand on a N/S door and close it. However, a west-east door can be stood on and closed/opened.

-Arctic buildings don't have E/W variants which means you have to either import doors or make really weird building styles so the doors work.

-Only E/W fences can hold horses which is sort of annoying as any other fence style is only aesthetic vs the usefulness of E/W.

#633 Re: Main Forum » Jason, we would need some rewamp on transportation methods » 2019-12-05 16:54:36

fug

Landing pads had to decay in both an infinite world and a rift because of all the possible troll pads. You could literally intercept planes by just making a troll pad which causes the pilot to need load in which at the time gave someone time to stab them while they loaded in. This was also incredibly cheap to do so you could either just spread them evenly in different directions as a sort of spiders web of traps.

Basically now that you can "pick" a spot if you have a map you might be able to have landing pads not decay but you'll still just lose the plane to the first idiot to jump in. bUt uSe fEnCes!!1111! yeah don't do that. Just hide it at a specific coordinate away from a place and only tell others within the discord who are trusted otherwise they just get stolen.

In regards to cars only going on roads that's too much effort currently to do to make them useful. I'd rather a steam/diesel power train be on rails since that makes more sense imo and tracks can be made multiple at a time. Since the flat rock nerf for everyone other than blacks I wouldn't ever want to make roads in the current game.

#634 Re: Main Forum » Infinite map is so fun » 2019-12-05 16:47:33

fug

Issue with the infinite map is he literally waited one week before adding a gimmick to make the game be in a pseudo rift.

I have no idea why he implemented something that should have been a rift update (requiring families of different tones) into a world where he hasn't made it exactly possible for all the families to be close (if they even exist.)

Low pop hours its possible to not have all the skin tones + have duplicates which frankly makes the tech tree impossible regardless if people are close or not.

We have the issue where something is absolutely fucking up Eve spawns and shooting people too far which puts a giant jump gap in between families.


Basically poorly designed gimmick + bugs in new eve spiral =bad. He should have let players actually experience life outside of the rift instead of just trying to corral them into a self made box.

#635 Re: Main Forum » Eve Spiral Too far apart » 2019-12-04 08:38:01

fug
DestinyCall wrote:

Frankly, I think that the game should just not be balanced around needing three other families when we can barely support six families during peak play times.

It's dumb.

I mean I definitely agree the game shouldn't be balanced around having all the flavors of the rainbow. I'd rather the races do something special like gingers catch special fish, black people get faster or more patient horses, and tan people grow more/better fruit trees.

There's no reason to trade in the game even with all these stipulations he's put in. You either move in together or die.

At least giving people special items that aren't required means there's a reason to not all live together meaning maybe people would trade.

"Oh, you have special fruit trees we can't get saplings from how about I give you some of our special fishing bait for them?"

Of course things have to be worth making but it is clearly a better idea than how its handled right now.

#636 Re: Main Forum » Eve Spiral Too far apart » 2019-12-04 08:18:08

fug

Towns are currently way WAAAAAY too far apart as of the bell town living and Eves spawning further and further from it.

1vPBa1D.jpg

Taking a peak at the server population (really off hour but the point stands) we have four families which seems pretty good except we have some MAJOR problems.

-Two of the families are ginger, one is white, one is black. No browns at all on the server which means the tech tree can't be climbed any further than deep well. Once the whites/west side gingers run out of water they've got to move or fetch it.

-Holy shit are people way too spread. Pika gingers live 10k~ west of the bell, Fran whites live about 8k~ and Dobbie blacks + Kontz gingers live at or very close to the bell. How in Gods name are people supposed to trade or do anything if the needed specialty family (in this case dobbie or the nonexistent brown family) are that far away? Even once a brown family spawns the blacks are too far away to help them do anything and the gingers/whites are useless on their own basically.

If you're gonna push the idea people are dependent on other lineages you can't have people spawning a lifetime+ away from each other.

My suggestion is to have the Eve Spiral (I'm not calling it an Eve Zigzag that sounds stupid as fuck.) reset itself back to 0,0 after going at least 3k out. According to Pein the lineages are moving around 1200 tiles a day with the current spiral which is about 5~ minutes walk meaning after a few days the Eve spiral would soft reset back through towns and areas already built up.

If you dislike the idea of the spiral always cutting through the same town areas then I recommend just having the zigzags shift every time it would reach the end. Start going west then once it hits 3k shift north from (0,0) then east, then finally south, then repeat. About every 2.5 days or so the spiral would shift naturally while leaving players still able to make towns outside of the spawn area.


Basically the game shouldn't be balanced around needing others if they're a 50 minute walk away.

#637 Re: Main Forum » Idea: one kill per life? » 2019-12-02 14:09:04

fug
StrongForce wrote:

Killing being hungry work would be good.
If you don't get fed after killing you starve while in murder debuf

If you're nude you die. If you're dressed its possible to survive hungry work murders which just means nude people need help murdering people and normal people can survive with zero issues.

Hungry work just tries to mask the issue of reactive matters being too weak and the players needing a bunch of proactive solutions being put in place (certain trees are 100% needed because even after a year and a half we don't have a means to skip them, sheep and other animals could be killed within seconds but you can't keep an eye on them without locking them all up which is pretty ass, etc etc.)

The best solution is just making cursing be a two way street imo. If someone is trolling constantly do you really want to be born near them or they be born near you? Obviously there's an issue if you over use the curse feature but you shouldn't be cursing people every time you have a token nor over after every minor issue that pops up.

Hungry work just deters good players from doing annoying tasks as well as trolls I know I certainly don't clean out sheep pens anymore and cbf to cut down trees 9/10 times due to not wanting to have to constantly eat.

#638 Re: Main Forum » Idea: one kill per life? » 2019-12-02 10:34:24

fug
Dodge wrote:

Maybe as soon as someone joins your posse one time you become an "approved guard" for the rest of this life, giving you the ability to kill in 1vs1 but if nobody joined your posse ever then you cant 1vs1.

So lone griefers could never go on a killing spree unless they can convince someone to join their posse at least once.

edit: and for the case of the single player defending his property maybe 1 vs 1 could be possible but would inflict a non lethal wound that prevents the attacker from grabing stuff for x time and a second blow would be fatal.

or 1 vs 1 is possible but you can only gate keep (cant move) and it only kills if the person targetted moves towards you, so a victim running from you would not get killed by a bow for example but if you move one tile in the direction of the person targetting then you get shot

How does this solve the issue? I've had my (very dumb) new son help a griefer because she convinced him to say "I join you" as she ran me out of town with a bow. If the goal is to allow someone to be better by being an approved guard then it should be an elder that approves you not some random kid that can finally say "I join you."



Back to the issue at hand even with six seconds as long as you're within 1-2 tiles you can out maneuver someone you chase with a bow to kill them even at 75% speed. As long as you're smart you'll kill them and due to new players not having any sort of mods they'll fail to see people behind trees and etc. 

The biggest issues are you made combat a mess + there's no reason to play hero as it normally bites you in the ass to do so. Specifically speaking last time I stopped the troll stealing things from town/killing the entire town (besides the smith) turned on me because they thought the "curse you" phrase cursed the individual player reading it. Unless you specifically care about the place being griefed you might as well let someone kick over all the new players castle because otherwise you run into "killing is bad, so you must be killed" new players, or the type who see blood and instantly curse without asking what is going on.

You best bet is to just curse a troll and kill yourself (which sounds dumb) so your next life they aren't born around you. Normally they'll die before you so if you curse and live you risk dealing with the same crap next life around.

Keyin wrote:

Think of the cases where half the town is in a discord group(quads). An individual has no hope of defeating them. The mob is in total control.

Quads have to speed up a random person as no one in a group can speed each other up (otherwise twins+ would without a doubt be able to massacre a town without any resistance.)

#639 Re: Main Forum » Family genetics and fatherhood » 2019-12-02 02:17:19

fug

Dads aren't allowed due to creepy rape uncles/incest/yadda yadda.

Regardless how a father figure could complete the family unit or make males feel more useful the trolls ruin it for everyone.


I'm not even sure how hard it would be to implement something related to this but keeping it simple would be best.

Mom holding baby phrases:

You are the Dad (closest male)
_____ is your father (specific male)
You are not my baby (remove baby to allow for adoption by other moms/dad)
_____ is your mother (specific female)

Then do regular disowning names for fathers

You are not my son/daughter (disowns closest related child)
You are my son/daughter (adopts held child)
I am not your dad (held child)
_____ is your mother (specific mother)
_____ is your father (specific father)

Just make it where players can deny/remove themselves from being labeled someones father/mother if they don't want to be and allow others to fill that gap if that's what they want.

#640 Re: Main Forum » So uhm, how do you trade for oil? » 2019-12-01 18:24:50

fug

As stated it's better to either steal stuff from one town or to give it freely rather than sit around trying to figure out an exchange. Better yet, if you find a town that's a different skin tone you might as well just move in and start doing what your race does best (since going back to the original town is mono race.)

Gingers can't get to oil by themselves so they might as well not even make towns when spawning as Eve. Best bet for them is to spawn in and just walk to the closest town in hopes of finding brown/black population as otherwise they'll be just sitting around praying to run into two different races vs tan/black which only needs to specifically find the other.

Trade update really just slowed the game down for the sake of people not bitching about how stale late game has been since forever. You can't have a stale late game if most towns can't reach it.

#641 Re: Main Forum » Auto-orient on ancient walls. » 2019-11-29 21:37:02

fug

Also there's issues with snow buildings because of auto-orient. You can't make doors on the N/S walls which means you either have to make a fully vertical building (ugly as sin) or import pine/wood doors so you can walk through your buildings. FeelsBadMan

#642 Re: Main Forum » Family Name Change After an Eve » 2019-11-29 20:20:44

fug
wondible wrote:

Nobody can name themselves except eve. A member of a Burns family must have been nearby, who name the anonymous child.

Basically this. Eve didn't name her child before herself but a nearby Eve/Family named the child which means the name passed down was Burns instead of Sorrows.

#643 Re: Main Forum » Well wine is never getting made » 2019-11-29 05:12:16

fug
Grim_Arbiter wrote:
pein wrote:

grapes are the best pen corners

+1

Sauerkraut crocks are easier as long as your family ain't ginger.

#644 Re: Main Forum » Well wine is never getting made » 2019-11-28 21:10:24

fug

Yeah I definitely think it should be more related to a whole recipe rather than the annoyance of content being dead because you can't find the other race. I'd rather it be where blacks can only do something like glass, tans get pumpkin pie, and gingers have fish/shrimp. Obviously it needs to be balanced a little or each needs other recipes but trading for end products makes more sense anyways.

Otherwise we're just going to be in the situation where if someone off color comes to town you just have them fetch a bunch of their specific resource (salt water for gingers, all the desert stuff for blacks, and rubber/palm kernels when tan.)

#645 Re: Bug Discussion » cant till piles of 2 soil » 2019-11-28 21:06:26

fug
eajorstad wrote:

Not a bug... happened in this most recent update:

https://imgur.com/a/iIBS1Je

It's an oversight on his part three soil pile tilling is only supposed to be for the arctic biome and not all other biomes..

3 pile is supposed to be arctic only as a compromise to perfect tilling in the snow.

2 is supposed to be the normal for farming hence why he removed three piles (as these were noob traps)

1 is supposed to be normal for saving soil instead of iron (rift like situation).

#646 Re: Main Forum » Well wine is never getting made » 2019-11-27 17:28:54

fug
StrongForce wrote:

Wine is too op if used without copper
One Glas gives 5 pips
One bottle has 4 glasses
On crock fills 3 bottles
One water and one shear use is needed for one crock of wine
60 pips for one bowl of water and one tool use!!

Lowering the pips per Glas would be funny cause you could do drinking contests hahaha

It's 3 pips per glass
12 glasses per bottle
and 3 bottles per crock once easy mode comes off which means its 36 pips which gross at gooseberry speed without requiring the soil speed (well it's a little slower but still.)

It's definitely not op by any means considering you need a lot of resources (plants/glass/bottles) to really get anywhere on mass production. It's honestly easier to either kill a lamb OR make pumpkin pie (which is definitely much more op than wine by a long shot.)

jasonrohrer wrote:

...

Pumpkin pie is fine and even might be a little too good but its locked behind a certain race so that's more than okay. I think wine just suffers from the tedium of it only being able to be done in a top tech town (which there's likely only one or two on the server now with the race update) which means you can't ever do it unless that town has blacks at the moment.

It just feels bad having all these restrictions slapped on from previous updates then when we get some fresh new content you can't even do it whether you know how or not. I feel like this was just a meant to be a hiccup to getting to late game since you didn't want to move the cogs forward again. Can't have a stale late game if its much more difficult to get to the same exact spot most towns would reach a month ago.

#647 Re: Main Forum » We're getting wine but could have more » 2019-11-26 14:51:18

fug

Yeah it'll likely be wine and feasts this update since he talked about feasts before and that was the whole reason for allowing upwards of 99 stored pips via overeating.

Was hoping for more alcohols at once but you get what you get tongue

#648 Main Forum » Remove ability to add water to full shallow well. » 2019-11-25 04:19:58

fug
Replies: 1

Was able to completely remove a towns shallow well water supply in <10 seconds due to being able to add water to a full well.

Using the water gambling method (3% chance to go up or down a stage) and spam clicking you can essentially waste all the water on this tier of well. This feature is fixed on the higher tier deep well but shallow wells are vulnerable to someone just spam clicking until they essentially lose all the water.

I'd almost go as far to say wells should actually just have a hard limit instead of how it works now due to the potential to abuse this on both (deep well is less vulnerable but still possible, and shallow well is guaranteed to run out if someone does it.) Either hard limit wells or better yet just remove the ability to put water back into wells that aren't dry.

#649 Re: Main Forum » Why the arctic farming change? » 2019-11-23 23:52:44

fug

Thanks for the fix Jason.

Arctic biome is the only biome where things are really needed (buildings especially) which makes for a much more interesting style of play as things have to be fleshed out better than a normal village where you can pretty much do anything and be alright.

Can't wait until Monday to get back to playing in the snow.

#650 Main Forum » Why the arctic farming change? » 2019-11-23 21:56:43

fug
Replies: 11

As the tile goes why change what can be planted in the snow? We finally started to see some special villages pop up that broke the mold of classic same old same old villages with a few snow villages being formed. Instead of removing/nerfing/restricting these fun projects I'd do the opposite and recommend allowing the other races to set up their own specialty villages like how gingers could.

Jungle unfortunately suffers from having too many mosquitoes and takes waaay too much effort to fix the place not to mention the fact you can't do anything to fix the heat at all. A way to encourage jungle villages would be adding a set of clothing clothing and having cheap building material like gingers would be a start but going even further you probably need a method to kill mosquitoes too.

Deserts absolutely suffer from the same heat issue that jungles have but even worse so since it maxes out temp. We of course having the issue of expensive building material in the desert and the only boards material being made from dead trees which cost food to chop. I suggest cool clothing + sandstone building materials just how gingers have snow to build from.

Instead of killing fun why don't we work on making it better? These ideas could potentially give you an idea of where to search for races of people instead of needing to explore every biome tip to top as you'd know tans are likely to live in jungles, blacks in the desert, gingers in the arctic, and whites in grasslands/savanahs/swamps.

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