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#51 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 16:02:57
FeignedSanity wrote:...
it makes the game more noob friendly if there are more purpose built storage. A newbie would instinctively know that food can be found on a dining table next to the oven. Then the newbie gets to learn examples of food you can make.
Pies in wooden boxes are a bit weird, and honestly without mousing over it, taking a basket out, and then inspecting it. you would NOT guess they are pies. I used to think they were some kind of sandal (i know, i;m not the brightest light bulb in the universe). Newbies WILL struggle with this, as I did, and currently my brother too lol
Part of good design is that the objects imply their function well, not necessarily needing to spell it out and hold our hands
Yeah, I commented a bit on this in an earlier post. It makes sense from this perspective. But you'd need the player to learn anyway. Wouldn't specific containers still be kind of spelling it out? But I suppose at that point, it's an intrinsic game mechanic.
I do see the value in this now, but I don't think it outweighs the benefit of having a container you can just store anything in. That is where we'll have to agree to disagree.
#52 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:57:49
FeignedSanity wrote:...
Thats where you're actually incorrect. Try spamming milk one life and watch closely for people drinking it. Or even stew, check how many different people eat it.
New players learn berries and can easily see pies and carrots are edible. Bowl foods? Not so much.
I guess from a new player's perspective, I understand that. But wouldn't this simply be a matter of education? And wouldn't they have to learn that "food is in the pantry" just as much as they would need to learn "you can drink milk". I guess it would be easier to explain, but I personally don't feel it's complicated enough to warrant easier explanation. But I might be being overly optimistic.
#53 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:54:08
Universal generic storage is boring, dont you want to see a village with more diversity of items, houses with beds, chairs, closet.
A kitchen with a table, pie stand etc
Also how does it add clutter since it can store items?
Sure, I wouldn't mind seeing beds and chairs (provided that they actually have a use). If they're just there for looks, you've got the wrong address. Also, these wouldn't count as storage.
If we're talking about specific storage (toolboxes for machine parts, a pantry for food); it would add clutter in the sense that you couldn't store "clothes in the pantry" for example. If you want to store a couple of clothes, maybe some food, and a tool or two, you'd have to make it's own special container. Unless you had enough to completely fill up all the special containers, you'd be wasting space. I figure you get what I'm saying without having to spell it out completely.
#54 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:45:35
FeignedSanity wrote:Dodge wrote:...
...
I disagree enormously. A dining table adds to aesthetics and actually functions as a food display, allowing people to see those items as food.
I suppose it might very well be more aesthetically pleasing, but just seems unnecessary. Also, I don't think people need help seeing stuff as food. I don't see very many times where someone would go "I guess that apple isn't food, because it's not in the pantry or on the dining table". Food is food no matter where it is stored?
I get the aesthetic thing, but aside from that?...eh.
#55 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:41:00
First of all, regarding decay, that's after 10 hours, unless something is broken. 10 hours is 40 generations.
Regarding "exploding," are you talking about at the 10 hour mark?
And yeah, it does sound like there could be some other, side-effect-free way of making reeds for baskets.
Almost all of the decay update stuff was put in place before Eve spreading, like a long long time ago. The reasons for that update were good back then (people were respawning close together, and life was boring once everything was done). Those reasons are mostly gone now.
Yes. At the ten hour mark, baskets explode some of their contents. In another half hour, they jettison the rest. This is very annoying for something that's meant to be stored. But I think them breaking is good for the economy (use for extra straw from pies, after you have a few compost). But I think they should be breaking on use, not after a time limit (as explained in the suggestion).
#56 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:37:11
Issue with baskets in box is you have to remove the basket then remove the item from the basket and finally put the basket back in the box.
So having storage that you couldnt put baskets in but would have 6-8-10-12+ slots would be much better, dont need a 100 slot container.
It could even be specific storage for different items, like a pie stand, barrels to put corn, tomatoes, peppers etc. A tool box to put all the small mechanical pieces like fuel nozzle, piston, steel valve etc.
A closet to put clothes in or even a hat hanger specifically for hats.
etc...
You get the idea.
It would help with organization since you would now what type of object is where.
I feel like specific storage would just add needless complexity and clutter. I think universal storage is the better alternative. I get that it's a couple extra clicks to take a basket out before you can get what you want....but it's a couple of clicks.
#57 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:33:44
That's just a little joke. While making more plates is certainly an option, you have to lay bread all over the place and that seems...off? A dining table that can hold 6 plates would be cool
Ultimately I think the beef here is mainly bread not being stackable. They fill up the kitchen floor and makes pie making more difficult
If bread is more compact perhaps wheat wouldn't be a big issue
Well I'm sure that there are a few people who legitimately think that, but I get what you're saying. Honestly, I don't think bread would last long enough to warrant storing it (provided people eat it before tearing into the pies and stew). But I wouldn't be opposed to "stacking" bread in some manner.
#58 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:30:42
I would just like to point out that you don't NEED to turn every single grain pile into bread, nor am I suggesting that. I'm only referring to the extra grain left over when the rest has been turned into pies. If you add grain storage to stockpile a ton of grain until you have stuff ready for pies, then you'll make bread a niche food.
I think most of the problems with grain just stem from ignorance about bread.
#59 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:24:24
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I dont think making 8 breads every time I need to make a boxful or cartfuk of baskets is a good tradeoff , people need the plates for pies for one thing, a vastly superior food.And I don't need a resident bread muncher to clear the plates. His job is to be naked just outside the kitchen to continuously much down on bread. Totally weird shit
Why not? Just make more plates if you're in such low supply. Baskets last for 10 hours. The bread you would make from those baskets wouldn't last nearly as long, I promise you. I don't get why it'd be a bad trade off. If your goal is to only make more baskets, then the bread is basically free food at that point. Why complain about free food? Because it takes up plates? That's a silly reason IMO.
Also, you don't need a "resident bread muncher" any more than you need a resident berry muncher. You just eat it. Bread is usually the first thing I always eat and it usually disappears pretty quickly; and I certainly don't dedicate my life to just sitting outside the bakery munching bread all day, I assure you.
#60 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:12:08
Have you ever actually tried? Totally impossible. You'll be lucky to get like ten baskets made in a lifetime if you take care of the grain, and ten baskets is a drop in the ocean when it comes to actual needs of a village.
I have actually, have you? Any time I see grain piles I turn that stuff straight into bread. It gets eaten up really quickly. Now the problem comes when people have way too much food (which happens fairly often). When you got three crock pots of stew and 24 pies, sometimes people neglect eating the bread. That's the only time it lasts, from personal experience.
#61 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:09:59
baskets decay (they should, but longer-lasting options are wanted)
I disagree that baskets should decay. I think they should break if you're using them (taking stuff out, putting it back in), and remain (like chests) if you're not.
Full details posted here: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6547
#62 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:07:42
There's not enough people on the server to eat all the bread it'd take to remove the grain clutter from making sufficient baskets for one small family.
This is just factually incorrect. Besides, you can eat up bread surprisingly fast.
#63 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 15:01:26
Now, the baskets might not seem that expensive given that two straw isn't hard to grow, but the problem is that you're creating two tiles of grain clutter in the process, and when you add the third tile you need for the basket itself you're basically just spinning in place if you try to reduce clutter by making straw baskets. This can be solved by making grain stackable, preferably within a storage item like a crock pot or a cloth bag, and by giving us a decent sink for grain. How about making pigs eat grain instead of corn, and adding recipes that make pigs actually useful?
Personally, I've always hated the argument about stuff like "grain clutter". Mash that shit in a bowl, add some water, and cook it. It's basically free food. You don't need a sink for grain, people need to eat it lol.
#64 Re: Main Forum » STOTRAGE UPDATE » 2019-05-29 14:58:55
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That said, I may be missing something.Is the main complaint that there are simply some things that can't be stored, at all? Or some things that would be nice to stack, that don't stack?
I see this, about making more stacks:
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/269
I created this issue about the storage issue specifically. Please help to fill it in:
My biggest problem is that baskets explode when inside chests. The chest is wonderful, amazing, fantastic, but if you put a basket in there, it becomes a time bomb (like baskets). This is part of the "seemingly ignored" suggestion I was talking about in the other thread.
Suggestion I was referring to: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6547
Other than that, rope is an expensive commodity, and buckets are very valuable. Hard to use such an expensive resource on a lot of boxes when buckets are so valuable.
#65 Re: Main Forum » Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs? » 2019-05-25 18:31:21
Shameless bump because Jason is on 
#66 Re: Main Forum » Hey Jason, will you make it possible to remove dry ponds? » 2019-05-25 18:30:19
Yeah, will do this. Can someone make an issue about it here, if it's not there already:
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues
Also, I'm not intentionally ignoring anyone. There's a mountain of information to comb through, though, and it's very hard for me to keep up.
And hiring someone to comb through it wouldn't help, by the way, because if I'm the one doing the work anyway, the bottleneck is still there, and they would have to present the best ideas to me, and that would take time, and how would they decide what's best? And hiring another person to help with the actual work is probably an even less practical idea.
In other words, this stuff takes time. It just does. I will get through all of it eventually!
Wow great! I'll make one now, if there isn't already one.
I get the whole doing it all yourself. I just strategically waited for you to actually be on before bumping the issue to the top, and it still didn't get a response. So the probably of it just being missed seemed small. Which is why I put "seemingly". Hopefully I get an answer to it one of these days. I'll just bump it again for good measure >:]
Again, I appreciate all the work you do and thank you for the great game you've made!
#67 Re: Main Forum » Hey Jason, will you make it possible to remove dry ponds? » 2019-05-25 18:26:30
can you explain why you disagree on being able to remove wild berry bushes?
Pretty much the same reason as with ponds. While there is value in having a free gooseberry every ten minutes, I don't believe it outweighs the benefit of potential real estate. Especially with buildings being much more useful now. A situation where "Man, this is the perfect spot for the nursery, but there's these indestructible berry bushes in the way" is frustrating. Same goes for a forge or bakery. Space is one of the most valuable resources in this game, IMO.
Besides, it's not even a guaranteed berry every ten minutes. It's actually less than that, because the timer resets every time a berry gets picked.
This might be stupid, but what if digging up a dry pond gave us something we could add to another pond (dry or not) to speed up water regeneration in said pond? So we would end up with one or two ponds that generate water much faster?
I feel like that kind of works against the concept of early game water running out to force upgrading water lol.
what about being able to repopulate a full pond with a goose too? that way it becomes a strategic thought, do I want the space now, or do i want the village to have more feathers for arrows later?
I don't really feel like there'd be a reason to do this. Besides, flint (the other ingredient required to make arrows) is non renewable. So you'd be competing against that aspect. Also, feathers are easy to get. You'd just travel to an untouched swamp and poke a few geese. You only have to wait 30 seconds for new feathers. Just make sure to turn them into fletchings so they don't despawn.
Psykout wrote:I agree, the real estate thing is annoying. One thing I do like about dry ponds, its like a cistern for bowls of water. If you ever have been trying to run a pump and all the buckets are partial buckets, being able to empty one by dumping it into a pond is nice, but that is extremely low on the totem pole in my book.
Wrong. Please don't waste water by putting it back into ponds, as you can and actually often will lose water doing this. It's not a static storage item like buckets. It's RNG based.
Every time you take water out of a pond, there's a 20% chance for it to go down a use, with a total of 5 uses- similar to tools. The last use if 100% chance to drain it. You definitely DO NOT want to be putting buckets of water into a pond because of the very real chance that you won't get it back. The only time you're guaranteed to get it back is if you put a single bowl of water into an empty pond.
Thank you for taking the time to point this out so I didn't have to.
#68 Re: Main Forum » Hey Jason, will you make it possible to remove dry ponds? » 2019-05-25 10:11:16
But muh bi-hourly bowl of water! It is what I use to kickstart abandoned towns... dont have the kerosine to use their pumps but the ponds have refilled. This would be almost as bad as when it became possible to remove wild berry bushes.
... seriously though, to the ppl who remove wild berry bushes...just build somewhere else or take them into account when building instead of digging them up.
Free food is free food. Free water is free water. Stop building in the swamp
I think being able to remove wild berry bushes is a great thing, and the same concept would apply here. While I respect your right to your opinion, I disagree on all accounts.
Although, if Jason were to refuse the removal of dry ponds, I'd be in favor of removing the ability to dig up wild berry bushes. Just for the sake of consistency.
#69 Re: Main Forum » Other games solve a lot of these long-term problems with regular wipes » 2019-05-25 09:01:52
I appreciated that video. Thank you for sharing.
#70 Re: Main Forum » Why is the map so unnecessarily big? » 2019-05-25 09:00:20
Since we are spawning close to each other, what purpose does a practically infinitive map serve?
I personally feel it is more of a novelty thing. If I recall correctly, Jason once said something along the lines of it being several times larger than Jupiter (Earth?). It's like a wow factor. If you take a minute to stop and think about it, while not practical, you could just keep going and going into the vast expanse. You could even reach the edge....in theory. That thought is probably appealing to Jason.
#71 Re: Main Forum » Hey Jason, will you make it possible to remove dry ponds? » 2019-05-25 08:38:58
would removing them have potential benefits?
like digging for ressources in them?
Otherwise, free water is free water.
I suppose it could. You could get a clay, or something out of it. But I'm not saying that they should just vanish once they're dry, just to at least have the ability to remove them. A single unit of water over the course of two hours is not without value; but I don't believe it would be as valuable as potential real estate.
#72 Main Forum » Hey Jason, will you make it possible to remove dry ponds? » 2019-05-25 07:41:46
- FeignedSanity
- Replies: 13
Since my storage/backpack idea seemingly got entirely ignored, I figured I'd go with something else that bothers me.
With ponds now being an early game resource that's meant to run out, forcing you to upgrade water tech, would it be possible to remove them after they're dried? Like, what purpose are they serving where they shouldn't be allowed to be removed? It takes two hours for a single water. That's not worth keeping around. I'd rather be able to use that space, if I need it.
#73 Re: Main Forum » Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains » 2019-05-25 07:15:54
>proposes warswords
>nobody likes the idea
>adds it>proposes change to yum
>nearly everyone [minus literally like 2 people] likes it
>"ehhh nevermind"Jason's so in-touch with the userbase ;w;
+1 for literally making me LOL.
Although that's not saying I totally agree with the sentiment. I've always, sort of, liked how Jason has pretty much made HIS game, even if everyone is telling him to do otherwise. It's just fascinating seeing where this game ends up.
#74 Re: Main Forum » Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs? » 2019-05-21 21:14:29
FeignedSanity wrote:Spoonwood wrote:The timer on baskets gets reset if they get stacked.
I thought he already fixed this.
My observations were on Thursday evening and Friday morning as I recall. Or Wednesday and Thursday.
Hmmm, maybe I just misunderstood something. I really thought he fixed (or was going to fix this). I'll just have to take your word on this, unless I can be bothered to test it myself.
#75 Re: Main Forum » Any chance something could be done about basket/backpack bombs? » 2019-05-20 20:02:41
The timer on baskets gets reset if they get stacked.
I thought he already fixed this.