One Hour One Life Forums

i suggested similar long ago
the issue is that there is no city defined, there are rules on birth and nearby females, and family rules, if they are in the same spot, but everything just makes it worse not staying together
plus if its the main part of the game, it has to be balanced

jason somewhy just likes reducing resources and hyping up how big the map is, actually there is no reason for the map to be so big when everything looks the same

i would prefer an unlocking mechanic, that you have zones for your family and you can extend it if you work for it
so the map could be more dense but slower harvesting early and technologies to speed it up, that would feel more like civilization building

and the randomness of having more space or more of one resources would make the game more replayable.

the fights could happen in another format too, like the city would be a dot on map and nearby dots declare war on you, and you got a separate layer of map with different rulesets, if you win, you could get that map part where they attacked from and extend the base

lmao= lick my a$$ one-chan

might not be what you expect but: find a few trees that are in a straight line, make adobe base pen, 1x3 enough, also you get the mouflon locked for later, trap a sheep, make a saddle, get a horse, run around and collect the branches 2 by 2. actually faster than going on foot, you can also plant trees and use branches later

fast, secure, scalable (just like crypto lol). choose two as Buterin would say lifes are too short, so speed is the key
you need a pro player to do a proper pen and it takes a full life, or 2 medium skill and you still need water and iron so managing workers is hard without planning
security falls when speed is key, and most people try to save time on it, there is griefing, and accidental damage. not much you can do about griefers, since everything is removable, only a few materials can be used. the safest is ancient stone and waystone corners. but since you rely on the compost and farms, water and iron, you cant have a safe pen, since you cant have a safe town. one safety measure is separating the mouflon and locking it up/hiding it or both, so you can get a lamb any time.
most people just trust in others sympathy and thats it, griefers will go for the simplest, fastest exploit, so if you make walls strong, they just kill all the sheep. thats why using some non conventional materials can work.
the accidental damage is also a problem, when two things interact, people make mistakes. if its a bush in corner, they eat the berry, if its a box in wall, they drag it away, if its a corner that keeps sheep in, they remove it to make a road.
safe choices can be also time consuming, like you can lock away a lamb but then you got to get a key, lock in, lock out, hide key every time.
scalability is the other aspect not many people consider: early game you are fine with a tiny pen of 2x2 even, or using trees as walls, or adobe base walls. function over form, later you can extend and make it fancy if you choose location correctly.
the best location is in a corner, since you got waste products, you need to take the bones out but not too far, usually people used an ice biome or desert, but now is race locked, you gotta think about others too when locking out items in biomes. still it has to be a corner, 2 sides facing the town and two facing empty space. you want easy access for feeding and for compost making.
Front entrances are scalable, corners are complicated to expand normally.

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the first is a corner entrance pen, since its not blocking any more, 2 entrances are fine, but it costs the same to have 4 and is more symmetric, only that you need more corner items then. front entrances can be extended easily sideways, while corner ones would block the exits if you build around it.
front entrances are a bit more expensive. the normal cost is lengthx2+heightx2+4corners, the most space for resources is when length=height, so square pens. the ratio of walls/usable tiles is better with bigger pens, as the sides need 1 wall, corners need 3, and center needs no wall. since you cant skip corners (only if you build next to a room) your only saving is making it bigger and have more center tiles.
the gates are easily griefeable and i would always add extra protection with corner tiles, also saves time to keep it open.
airlocks are the worst kind of entrances, it just never works, since the animals constantly scan for tiles can go to so they just run out.
open field flock never works cause they wander away too far when the village dies. not sure if you can still store naked sheep in small biomes, that was handy.

thats what Yah did better, two branches per cut out tree, so you can make a lot of shafts right away when cutting out any forest

a center would be a place where people spend most time, which is usually food, clothing and empty space, something fancy
but overall depends on the type of players what is a centre
noobs hang out in the berry field, a bit more evolved players hang out in the kitchen
the best center is flooring. if you can make flooring, people cant plant on it, and if it looks good, people wont ruin it. if you put stew there, and show how to eat it, it can be more effective than other foods.
so if you do a 6x6 flooring for example then surround by proper fences and  plant some trees. if people see flooring, they make rooms so you might as well do a room above then flooring.

i think is important to have an identity for each town, people enjoy a bit of unique flair, and remember when they go back
everyone wants to have fun so creativity is key, at least indirectly. in reality, a few players do everything and its upon them if it becomes a good town or not.

wheat farm can be near the bakery and the bakery can be near the pen, ideally rabbit side, but secondary pen and secondary ovens arent bad either. make them rabbit pies separately and mutton pies separately. its not that hard transporting wheat, its just getting the grain can be a problem as its easier to produce than consume it. so it has to be the edge of town also.

ideally people shouldnt eat carrot at all, can go anywhere, except in a sheep pen. only full rows are eaten by sheep tho.
since you got 7 seeds, 8 tiles is enough, but i prefer watering some later on so people dont have time to eat it.
you can prep the 8 tiles beforehand and just leave the seed unwatered.

you dont need a road inside a city, all i ever saw using roads are lazy rpers running around mindlessly. you could technically do pine roads just to connect things, or board signs too but just too much time for not much benefit. paper and waystones arent bad tho, to give instructions and directions.

a useful road is one that goes to an iron pit or to another city. with paver you can make a lot of roads, than it can go anywehere. but most people dont like roads inside the city, it just takes away so much space and people leave a mess around it. in any case, not right next to the walls, free space is the most advanced technology, a city can have you got to drop down things so empty space is good to have around roads. maybe paralell pine roads both sides of a road then it looks better and more functional.

nursery is kind of a useless thing, usually there arent that many babies and they prefer going around and watching what you do. but if you really want to make one, not inside the kitchen but next to it. a center can be for babies where they see more and like 6x6 pine floor to prevent planting. or 7x7 and use some stone and trees around. buildings with no function just take away space. fancy fences are also good if you dont want babies to run around. but i dont like forcing them to stay.
ideally you dont want berries next to it and you should really explain what they should eat, popcorn, even carrot pies are way more effective than berries.

forge should be away from the crowd as it needs expertise to make tools and time matters, so in any case, shouldnt be under the berry field or between bakery and something, when people run around and cover is annoying. and there is nothing people should do in a forge if they arent good at it, if they wanna test their skills build another one. Working is more effective if there isnt litter all around, just things that you need.

The original forge can be used for pottery, in the swamp ideally, lot of people consider the forge as a village center as its the first sign of civilized towns with any future to prevail. So making a second far away is a good idea. A lots of noobs build roads to it or randomly plant berries 3 tiles away from it. So might be a good idea to place pine floors around and extend it a lot. There are different styles of smithing, where to put forges, up down, spacing, etc. that i understand, but walls 1-2 tiles away are too annoying, open forges are usually better, if you want to put in a room, make it huge.

Sadly, there are too many bad players who can only munch berries. So you cannot avoid it completely, and cannot explain to eat something else. Sometimes you need that noobs to survive and have pro babies. And its convenient to eat berries, lots of people starve if they dont see any bush.

That being said, its still real bad for compost and water, so limiting it is effective if you want longer survival.
For example put excessive flooring around it, 3x3 then 3x3 floor then 3x3, or double wide pine roads.

i would say that a far away pen with a cistern and a small berry field is good if you can prevent people eating there, and have stew or pies ready. i guess a few bushes in each corner of the town would be better than a big central field, because people will explore and hard to go back and forth the middle. Thats why is good to have dedicated home markers with a sharp and a round stone to cut and remake.
Also some 3x3 stone flooring filled with food so people can eat there instead of ineffective walk or ineffective eating. But that needs better food distribution system and better signaling on foods. Ideally each work area has a closeby food reserve.

In general, huge berry fields do better, but die out quickly, while you would only need like 9 bushes to feed the sheep, often times you need 18-27 and people still be like 'no fod, i plent more bushes instead of fixing the ones we already got'. Ideally, you have to force people to eat something else. They still gonna find a way to be selfish aholes and act morally superior despite of it, but if you build a generic town, no pro player gonna stay and 30 noobs dont do as much as 2-3 good players.

If you can put all berries from bushes into bowls and the other person can put soil and water on each, you will see how hard is to run out of berries. OFc if people let it rot, and keep 1 on each, will be 8 minutes of no harvest. But more bushes wont mean more food, just more work and more water need. A constant income from a few bushes is better than a big harvest from many.

I'm quite sure it was 7 at some point, and the reason was that Jason had a pocket knife at 7 and his daughter did archery at 11, way to balance weapons

I guess 7.5 can be considered 8

if it can be cheaper, why not?

remember the time when people planted huge berry fields and hated cisterns?
it took some convincing to do proper flooring and parcelled farms, it's the same principle

the real issue with pork is that people take it to oven 1000x and you never have enough bowls to cook it

Just noticed that if you fill the pen and no open tiles, one would starve holding the bow with no backpack or storage or empty tile to put to, so using normal doors won't stop griefers but karma gets them after the fact that they kill the piggy

Do springy doors now open like gates? haven't played in a while

Actually, I tried to put 7 on my laptop and it didn't let me. It came with Chinese 10, but jokes on all of you, cause you to pay 50-70 bucks on windows and programs you don't use. It's fully legal to use my code in any other version and you can download original windows ISO-s right from Microsoft servers. Honestly, XP was way better and stable and shit, I remember a system problem where a virus ruined my files, and copying over the ssysem32 folder contents saved me from reinstalling. BTW my older desktop at home was running xp quite well but now is not supported by a lot of programs, I did not run v7 well but handles 10 pretty good.

Lately, my laptop had a few memory issues and I found out how much of a problem is overheating for performance. 8 gb was enough for 99% of the things I do, never had issues, there is an automatic cleanup of RAM at 880 from reaching maximum, but that process can fuck up things.
I was always doing some cleanup, on xp and 7 was easy to customize services. I tried a launcher from razer and actually got some bridge errors which is weird, but also it cleaned less ram that it used in the background. As for antivirus, I always hated memory-hogging ones like Norton, but Kaspersky was even worse, put my newly purchased pc on freeze, was kind of weird and scary on day 1.
So I use free ones that are using less resources and online database. I had a free subscription with AV scanner, it was good until it lasted, then th Clam AV part started freezing. SO back to Webroot giveaway version. Actually, if you know what you ar doing, a firewall and a bit of research is enough. So a minimal antivirus is so good for system resources.

Also, Microsoft crapware is annoying, I disabled Cortana just to notice months later that search has a service, possibly collecting data and won't stop even after I got no Cortana or indexing or search (void tools-everything is way better and faster). That was using 100 mb on default with no reason. Also some other program took 4 seconds extra to boot up. Nnott much but none of my other programs took that long, maybe discord. Had this Glary utilities feature to read comments about it. 'Russians turn it off' it's good enough for me why I should turn it off I know It sounds nitpicking but you do it once, there was like 10-12 useless services in w7 and quite a big impact on performance. On w10 you start again doubting if any of it is needed or useful.

oh that old topic iI member how much hate cisterns had, especially that the engine could not handle conversions
took a while to convince people it's worth it

I don't particularly like the 3x3 but it's better than nothing
also I didn't like how people started the plots with the well on middle, that 60-80 bowls are short term optimization, the well is a workspace after that and free space worth more

personally, I like 2x5 strips, it's not that good for floor per field ratio but it's better for picking berries in bowls. Wider is worse, working sideways is good. can be like 2x6x3 and then is better for soil ratio

I remember how the floor trick saved from endless expanded fields, and how I was digging out bushes, splitting the berry, like Moses the tomato soup. People started doing that like 9-10 months later.

Personally, I don't like a single farm setup, at least separate stew, you won't be there forever to pick up your stupid beans.
Also, there is some value in adapting to surroundings, had even more back when deserts and jungle had a better heat, but still, a bit of overheating is good when you run around in cold.

not true, it grows in Bulgaria now with the global warmup

races suck cause it's not a choice, restrictions are good when you can unlock them somehow

by a zone, I mean a chunk of land with a centre and some aoe effects could buff or nerf them

understand it right, pip per water counts, the whole yum was my idea and new corn values too so I'm aware of values
it's fine to have variety and all, but a fixed water amount means it takes away from other things, so essentially a harmful activity if there is an income or a way to retrieve, it's just low effectiveness, won't harm others but their efforts are misplaced, heck, even overproduction hurts, while making compost was kind of best way to help long term, making too much makes water usage more important as each stack of soil will need water to go along with it, so too much is esentially using up your fixed amount of water and ties down your options
the first case, the person doing it will not covert his time to value, so his life has no value, not even breaking even, his actions are harmful and others are rightfully pissed at him
while resources are less valuable, time and activity will become more of a value, meaning you can't be fully useless if you got 30 water per hour and 15 storage, then the focus is on workforce and not overall usage effectivity, you would lose water for not emptying the storage
this way it's more acceptable that some people don't know any better
if it's fixed, there is no reason not to do your most effective foods

as for realism, it makes no sense
it should be a curve where hitting the minimum amount of workers is important, then above that, you could have problems if you can't organize
right now you want the lowest possible highly educated workers so your effectiveness is higher and upkeep is lower
so a free tier of resources is needed and the possibility of creating value out of nothing but time
for example, a basic level of clothing that is made of leaves and plants should be possible, to differentiate lazy people and low tech
or making a tea out of rainwater and leaves would give a small boost of heat and calories, that would make initiation, action and the ability to scout your surroundings an okay skill to have, sure, it shouldn't be a way to improve or even survive, but a way to maintain and slow down the upkeep damage

Jason says is realistic that everything runs out, but it's not. cities formed along rivers, Europe has a long history and civilization can be tracked better, the Danube river has 7 capitals on it, some countries even tried connecting it to their own capital
there are suitable places to live or can be forced to be suitable, like Dubai, which has no water on its own
It should be a reason why something is a good place to live and others bad. If any place is just as good to make things, nothing worth anything
So tech should be tied to location. You could only create certain tech in certain places, and not others, you could not move all the things that make a city a city, you could only get limited rewards. Life find a way, just watched some videos in Pakistan and they barely got any water but they know the usage of plants and they can survive there.

What I say is cities should be something that produce more resources over time, not just a collection of items that some people agreed upon
Jason loves the concept of making up concepts, money, trade and all, but players got a limited time, they can't waste it for leadership, and dumb things that won't stand a chance to be respected and remembered trough generations, it must be defined by the game
SO things should be grouped and organized by the game and players have a set of settings to choose from, and the game would provide ways to keep that remembered and respected

The map can be auto-generated but the places should have more uniqueness, value, like zones with central objects that generate resources that won't run out, just maybe won't be optimal to stay there forever. A concept of relative value, not an absolute one.
Right now there is X resources, like 50 clay that is 50 plates, in the great scheme of things, it doesn't matter how long it takes or how many people do it, it will be 50 plates, not 10 per hour for 5 hours, not 5 per hour for infinity, it's 50, it can be done in 4 runs or in 10, it's still 50.
The players seem to be observers, not a variable that can change things. It should be an environment that needs constant input to provide output, not a fixed input and fixed output.

Everything else is fine, food types and values can change but your main issue should be not 'how I use it' but 'how I organize' or 'how I will have enough workers' or 'what I focus on'. Because all those questions have the same answer right now. Collect, use, do by yourself. Food is just your upkeep, it's important, but it's not hard to do. But eventually, with fixed resources, your upkeep will be the same as your output, and all die forever. While with a dynamic input, you would need huge mismanagement to die. Would be more fun to change focus based on needs.

So that means we need more 'needs', like a stamina bar, so working is limited but universal, not like tools were, unlimited but your focus is limited. This would make teamwork better. Team jobs that can only be done in pairs. Job timers of 10-30 seconds. So it's not about time but more of manning the equipment. Upgrading resources using other resources, sinking more and more of it but having some improvement over time. Value could only stagnate or go up, not a 0 sum game.

storage, packs before anything, especially with yum, clothes are not as important
packs, aprons and pants, the only thing I don't like about wolf hat is that covers bp, but you can farm wolves too.

Oxygen not Included did it right, first, you had only a normal base than dangerous territories, like slime and lava, sure it's a mineshaft so they could simulate oxygen. Butt after people complained about the stuff running out, they changed the model, now you can plant trees for ethanol, use salt and rust, you got different techs to do stuff differently, for the same result, and it's not easy, you got to focus on things you can do, it still runs out but can be recycled, and that's how real lif works too, ofc if too many people live in the same area, it runs out, but continuous lands should provide enough resources so cities emerge.

Right now OHOL doesn't have cities, it's a collection of things, and you don't even need to collect stuff, you move around and reinvent the wheel.
I remember when Jason wanted to change wells, and I told him water deposits should exist, and buckets should limit tech levels, and it worked, people doing better wells, bucket limited the tech for cows and painting so it was a good change.
That's what we need, tech gates, stuff that replaces previous outdated tech. Stations that save work when items are delivered. I think the way everything is connected to hunger only, is bad, so tool slots. It could be connected to energy. And then players would matter in the equation, the more work you do, the less you need to struggle. The map could be more compact, trees closer but cutting and using them would be more time.
Items, machines should be more expensive but provide more functions, like a sawmill would be needed to cut boards, so what you do? do it with a saw, rest and continue or ask help or build a sawmill.

The map is nice, it's auto-generated, but it lacks what good maps have, spots that can make into a city and function over time. One way to fix itt would be an upkeep based city model, where higher functions are interconnected, you could always get resources, but you need more and more to sink into upgrading machines and elements, so there is always work, things to do, workers are needed and resources are not the main factor. Right now having 20 dumb people doesn't matter if you got 2 good ones, they do the tech and that's it, in some case people use up all water or ropes and it's hard, but not impossible. But imagine this: you got water regenerating and it's enough for certain stuff but you can't do higher-level machine work until you fix it, and how you fix it? Getting wood/iron to upgrade water generation.

Surviving Mars had a nice system, and it re-evaluated resource values, first, you had evaporators to collect some water, then you had to dig for a basin, which ran out after a while, then dig deeper when you got the tech and finally upgrade your machines enough to get a better water/power ratio from the evaporators. Also digging for concrete left behind rocks, which are just garbage at first but with the right tech, you can turn it to concrete and actually faster than mining at the right tech level.

So for OHOL it could be more ways to get water, like bottle trees, collect rain, re-filter used water, etc. The main problem to solve would be having enough workers in one area, and ignoring others. So whatever jobs you do, you make a profit but some give more. Right now if you use resources in a bad way, it won't come back anymore, and you might ruin others efforts. Planting berries? other foods use less water. This would be solved with regenerating resources, you still got to wait for 15 min or upgrade water output.

Also an energy system would be good, and machines. Something making it worth sticking with a place and fixing it instead of moving far away. Some items could be essential but depend on machines. Like clothes or tools.
Also liked the system in SM and Planetbase, you don't replace things, you got universal repair kits that you use for anything. So a hoe could be repaired or an axe, no need to re-do it, but you got to build the infrastructure to support repair kits.

Right now the game is moving between tech levels -1 0 1 2. You got towns that have no resources (thanks for engine removal), barely starting ones, ones with basic stuff, and ones with a few advanced things like animals and clothing making. It should be 0-1-2-3-4.... You should never have towns that produce nothing, any activity should provide resources for like 4 people. And it should always be a higher-tech level for anything.

Jason just made grids to have equal resources, you got fixed water, iron, so it does not really matter to have a good location for cities, it does not matter how many workers you got, actually, more is worse than a few.  Players just consume, and not always produce, and they can't, there is no activity where time and work equals resources, only resources equal resources,  you can spend collecting 36 adobe in life and you build a house in 2 minutes or less. You remove food and water and iron all the time and eventually all gone. I would prefer a way to convert resources then convert back. ONI had the toilet systems which is kinda funny, but it kinda covers water needs.

OHOL could have a free tier of resources, that can make higher tier ones, like dirty water+coals(ashes from fire) would make some clean water, simple clothes made out of leaves and plants, wood from collecting some fallen branches. Iron from scraps that appear from time to time.
Main resources would have a cap and lose when nobody collects it, so activity and exploring would be rewarded, progress would be halted but not completely stopped. Starving would be still possible.