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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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#876 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-20 23:06:29
Sheeps gettin' out the moment one of those middle carrot rows goes to seed and the last one is picked.
I mean, I could work a place like that, but, what new person is going to look at that and find it easy to reproduce?
It also doesn't translate very well from our image of what a farm should be.
Here's Iowa
See those grids?
This is some of the most productive farmland on planet Earth.
Here's some farmland in China for comparison.
Even here, in one of the oldest pieces of farmland on Earth, they use the grids.
Even Egypt's farms, well, sorta have that same look...
It's that look of fields, divided by roads, that allows for produce to flow, like blood from the heart, out to the body of the people.
Roads are the veins of civilization.
Your design looks more like a park, where the bushes would separate people, not bring them together.
The only thing it's missing are some benches.
I'd still work there though.
Just not as hard as I'd work a 3x3.
XD
#877 Re: Main Forum » Broke the game again Jason. » 2019-07-20 22:11:19
Let me see if I understand you correctly.
So, the only places in a 9x9 like this, that would count as being 'indoors' would be the 16 tiles in the 4 2x2s?
Then, a 7x7 with 'sheep pen corners' would all be indoors except for the 4 inside corner tiles, due to the tiles 7 away outside the opposite corners?
#878 Re: Main Forum » Broke the game again Jason. » 2019-07-20 20:39:24
Looking into understanding this 'new' heat grid, and what ideas Jason might have gotten from this Thermalsim, I noticed the heat grid has been increased from 8x8 to 13x13.
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … ngeLog.txt
Version 231 2019-May-23...
--Improved thermal model for buildings. Now using a 13x13 heat grid instead of
8x8, to support larger buildings. We now detect a binary indoor/outdoor
property for each player, based on being completely surrounded by walls,
floors, and closed doors. If indoors, the effect of a cold environment is
halved, and the effect of clothing to protect from cold environments is
doubled.
So, no more saying 9x9 buildings with that 7x7 floorplan is the perfect size for that symmetric door look.
Instead we could be going with 15x15 walls with 13x13 floors.
That's almost big enough to have a bakery, medic, nursery AND a smithy, all in one building.
Or just a nursery, bakery and medic with a good amount of space for food and clothing storage.
If you want doorless buildings you have to make a little tetris Z shaped hallway to make sure temperature grid is blocked properly so there isn't a heat leak.
Like that? Do you know how that works? Why it works?
I couldn't find it looking on github, searching, once again, for terms like heat, temp, and the other 'code words' associated with them. Maybe it's rFloorGrid, maybe it's in the formula for int j, I don't know.
#879 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-20 20:27:41
I've been spamming inverted berry farm too, but people seem to be stuck with their 3x3.
Hey! Thats the one thing pein kindly gives me credit for in this game.
Not that I was the first to do it, but, the logic is in the baskets and carts used for carrying soil, and in the space needed around farms for things like seeds, baskets and bowls.
It seemed like a good ratio of space to crops, and it looks nice.
It's a form of organization that is easy to see, and it helps maintain and promote organization, from the moment a new player sees it.
It's something that has carried over, from life to life; town to town, and when people are reborn and see that familiar 3x3, they can find a little comfort in recognizing it.
And while I kinda dread the game gets stale, and I just see the same cookie, cut by every family, I know that people each add their own ingredients here and there, and always will.
Make a good argument for something more organic, that incorporates things found around the farm, like the slot boxes for the carrots, baskets of soil and the amount of fertile dirt in a compost pile, and I'll get on board with it.
#880 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-20 19:56:07
This is the problem with the game developer as savior mindset.
They all think that if THEY can just portray the horrors of war, that THEY can be the ones responsible for ALL the good that the decent people conclude.
"If only I could just make a game about thermonuclear war that would convey Mutually Assured Destruction, maybe people would stop making so many bombs."
-every game dev born during the Cold War
Then what winds up happening?
They sell ad space to the US Army.
Just to pay for the loans they took out to see their game made.
Ads that lead to kids that want that 40k, going to Iraq and Afghanistan, to kill and be killed, for oil money.
Meanwhile their friends are all showing their support by teabagging Marines in Counterstrike, raiding Stormwind and fragging Martian demons.
Propaganda. Propaganda never changes.
--
We still think we should eat each other.
Meanwhile our ancestors are working justly, below our feet. Justly, to keep us fed.
And no ears, yet hear the winds, on countless worlds.
We have one job. One job to everything that allows us to know.
One responsibility, to everything that can ever be known;
to carry ourselves to them.
To take the road out there.
Have you ever caught an insect in your home, in cupped hands?
To release it outside, moments later?
Have you ever considered the increase of time, between each moment you've held a child off the ground, in your arms?
What must it be like, to never pick them up again, but to hold them, to be held by them, with their feet on the ground?
Imagine the whole Earth, feeling something like that, about another world.
Before you stab someone.
#881 Re: Main Forum » Update your game through STEAM » 2019-07-20 01:55:39
Did you manage to get it to work?
I was stuck on downloading update for 15 minutes before I closed the program and opened it back up, then the download came as quickly as usual and I was back in, no problems.
Not sure what happened part way through the download, first third of the bar came almost instantly, then the second third took almost 5 mins... and then no progress for 10 minutes.
Wasn't my personal connection either, everything else worked just fine.
Figured Jason was maybe tweaking the patch and reuploading it, or, something like that.
Who knows.
#882 Re: Main Forum » Broke the game again Jason. » 2019-07-20 01:20:56
You gotta remember that you are:
Still withing the fires radius thus getting it's passive heat bonus in that picture
Wearing some of the warmest clothes in game minus the hat.So I doubt in the last patch for buffing buildings did anything to fix that but I can always double check when I get a second.
What I did not get a screenshot of or mention yet, is that I removed all my clothing and walked through the walls.
I was most certainly warmer on the inside of them than I was on the outside, but I am not certain if that is because I was only within the radius of the fire itself, if the floor and walls just gave me a bonus, or if, as I suspect, the walls did may the space inside act as a room and I gained that additional bonus.
I wanted the room to be larger, but I wanted it fully floored and the snow banks and ice holes, made me realize a little too late that I hadn't planned properly. But it was my first attempt last night, and from experience alone, I think it was a success.
#883 Re: Main Forum » Broke the game again Jason. » 2019-07-20 01:00:04
Many thanks to my son and daughter for helping me to build that crude diamond shaped building in the snow, especially my son, who placed most of the floors.
I'll probably be starting a thread just for this topic after I've worked out some more plans and cleaned up the pictures.
#884 Re: Main Forum » Broke the game again Jason. » 2019-07-20 00:50:18
well, actually they are same distance cause it's tile based
diagonals are just longer, even walking speed and horse speed is tile based, so basically 0-50, 50-0 and 50-50 are same distance from origo
sure, visually is 1.4... away but that's just optical
2d and isometric 2d is interesting this way, the focus is on strategy, that's why quite some strategy games are still 2d and popular
Then it takes half the time to travel diagonals
40 east + 40 north, vs, 40 northeast
Even more reason to spread out on diagonals, though, obviously changing our playstyles collectively can be difficult for communities.
I did some tests with diagonal walls and they seem to work ok, they seemed to keep the heat in, while requiring no door.
Been working on, and contemplating, the applications/implications of this in the meantime. Excuse the grid on the left, I'm just taking a break from working on the ideas of the city layout on the right while also considering a layout for diagonal roads leading out directly from the wells. Yeah, it would hinder travel every 40 steps, but it would be a lot easier for people to start making the diagonal roads out from the wells, rather than count steps in cardinal directions before beginning the diagonals.
I'd like more people to test diamond shaped buildings and share their opinions on using them.
It's really nice being able to just walk through the walls on angles from anywhere inside.
Also the diagonal roads would allow for twice the distance moved using half the flat rocks.
Please, if I'm wrong, let me know.
And thanks for response, showing Pythagorean's theorem was just a real world way to get people to think about moving on angles, and to consider the distances. Obviously it's faster to move 40 tiles on a 45 degree angle rather than 40 tiles in one cardinal direction and then another 40 perpendicular to it, or, am I still missing something?
so basically 0-50, 50-0 and 50-50 are same distance from origo
I think I get what you are saying there.
The distance from, x,y;
0,0 to 0,50
0,0 to 50,0
and
0,0 to 50,50
they all take the same amount of time?
or
does 0,0 to 0,50 and then 0,50 to 50,50
take the same time as 0,0 to 50,50?
I suppose even if it doesn't take any less time, it's still half the number of flat rocks required, but then again, if we replace 50 with 40 and consider moving from well to well, you'd be going to 1 well for 40 flat rocks either way.
I'd still like for more people to experiment with the diagonal roads and diamond buildings, even if only for the sake of variety, though I am fairly convinced by my own experiments at this point that there are more reasons than just diversity, to build diamond towns.
#885 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-19 23:45:54
Its freaking depressing to witness murder after murder and live through it.
I know it is, which is why I don't want it to get worse.
We are no where near as bad as this game could get. The more players that want to help that leave, the more the people who want to turn this into a game about killing people, will kill new players, and only the players that are fine with killing and want to kill others themselves, will stay to kill, and die, just be reborn and rush to kill again.
I don't want things to get to that point, where that seems like the point of playing the game for every civilization, for every town and every family. I don't want every player thinking they are in this for themselves, and a mom is just nice enough to keep her son or daughter alive, in the event that they might help them to also kill other players.
I have no doubt the game could get to that point, and I don't want it getting any closer to that than it already is.
I don't want it getting any farther away from that, than it has since I first started playing.
We, as a community, can band together, and no matter what Jason adds to the game to try to get us to kill, to help us to settle our nerves if we get frustrated with someone, by giving us the option to stab, impale, shoot or poison them; no matter what combat garbage toys he puts in our play pen, we don't have to play with them. We don't have to be the kinds of kids he's trying to make us become, by buying guns for our birthday, or camouflage clothing to wear to school. We don't have to grow up in this game thinking we want to be Rambo or Chuck Norris, just because those are the shows 'dad' watches. Sitting there on the couch, talking about the good old days of WW2 and Vietnam, talkin about commies and nazis, niggers and jews, like the whole world is out to get us, but it's okay, because 'we're good, wholesome, white Americans', and we know whats best for the world. We got the might of the worlds largest Army, Navy and Air Force, and we can just blow those Japs to smithereens if they ever mess with us.
Fuck all those old attitudes.
And fuck all the games that keep people in those WW2, Vietnam, Cold War and Iraq War mindsets. I used to love games like Warcraft and Command and Conquer, I loved Starcraft and Age of Empires, I loved Civilization, Caesar and The Settlers.
RTS and 4x games were my favorite types of games, long before MMORPGs, and even while I was playing Ultima Online and Everquest, I was still playing games like Metal Knights, Warcraft 2 and Starcraft. In fact I had the highest score in the world in Metal Knights, out of something like 7,000 players. I was fucking vicious at that game; being the last person to take my turn one round, and immediately after, the first to take my turn the next round, I'd get massive numbers of tanks, helicopters and bombers, and just wipe players out, game after game after game, and they would never know how, because when they sat down to play, they were dead and couldn't get back in the game.
I'm not saying that those of you who still enjoy those games are bad people. I am not saying that. I'm not even saying the people that make games about war and murder are bad. What I want, what I am trying to say, is that people of the world that care, that want to care, for others, as much as there are those that want to kill people in other games, those people need a place to come and feel welcome.
All those people out there who like playing City Builders, Survival Games, RTS', 4x', all those people who love playing all sorts of games out there, but they just don't like the parts of them where people are killing each other, but they accept them, just so they can do everything else, well, I think those people would also really like a game that also includes parenting, that also includes living a full life, from a newborn right on up to a dying senior citizen. And that if we went even farther, than just having them, if we recognized them and gave them the keys to the city; if we made the game, about showering new people with the kind of attention they needed, the way we shower children with clothing and warmth, as we've held them, and pulled them to our chests. If we really cared for them like parents care for their children, and recognized that, they very much are, the children of the present playerbase, and we bonded with them, the way parents do to their children, well, they may very well bond with us, the way we have bonded to our parents. As we grow proud of their accomplishments, they too, will be proud, of the new players they later parent and pass on their roles.
We can make this game like that, even more so, than it already is, because we can agree to ourselves, we can commit, to making the game, that sort of environment. Not one where we stab our child, for pulling the dog's tail. Not one where we put an arrow in our kids chest for setting the house on fire, after they played with matches.
We can't do this anymore.
We have to understand what it is people come here for and act accordingly. If your son, accidentally shot your daughter in the chest with an arrow, you wouldn't do the same to him to teach him a lesson. You'd tell him it was alright, that you forgive him. You'd tell him you still loved him and that you, should have been more careful. That you, should have had a medicine kit ready, before such an accident might have occurred.
Now I know players coming into this game, they aren't all 4 year old boys and girls. Not all of them, but some of them might be. Some of them might be children in real life, and they still have their entire adult lives ahead of them, to experiment with all the things they think it means, to be an adult. Try to imagine the good, that they can take away from their experience here, as long as we are willing to give it to them. Lessons about caring for their family. Lessons about working hard, and doing what needs to be done, at the right time. The lesson that there are a dozen people, somewhere, anywhere, out there on the planet, that are all looking after each other, that are all providing for each other, despite who their fathers have told them are the bad people on this planet.
Things could get a lot worse, or, they could get a lot better. They could get a lot better than even Jason has imagined, I guarantee you that. They could be better than any of us, any one of us, could possibly, imagine, alone. We might all wind up surprising ourselves, just how good we can become. As the number of positive experiences, goes up, and up, and up; with every day, with every life and with every moment, we found ourselves looking at each others, and seeing something in other players, something in ourselves, that just gets better and better, each time we look.
It isn't one place, or one time, that we are ever going to be, though. We must understand that. It's not going to be a state we are going to reach and be able to say "Okay, we're here. We're good now." No. It is going to be a road we choose to travel, it is a road, many of you have been on with me for a year and half now, and that some of you have been on with Jason, for much longer. Some of you have veered off this road, many of you have erected monuments and towns, along this road, but still more are getting on this road with us, every day, they are born on this journey, and they, like me, nearly a year and a half ago, know only this road, and our journey on it.
Our roles on this journey will take many forms, many of which, we have likely, not even discovered yet. Roles like those of educators, who could leave things like slotted boxes full of written instructions around our towns, like for the steps required to create engines, so that the knowledge is not lost when the players that know the steps, are no longer around. We've begun making libraries, parks and shrines, and those are wonderful things to bring creative variety into each of our homes.
But so much more awaits us, so much potential, based around the one thing we can never live without; someone to care for us from the start; someone to get us started, on that road.
#886 Re: Main Forum » Your OHOL pet peeves » 2019-07-19 06:00:00
Biggest pet peeve: Jason...
What was it that he said?
It builds character?
It makes it interesting?
Little bugs are not big deals?
I can't remember.
By the way, has anyone noticed it seems like temperature has more of an effect?
Like, the fires and deserts, seem hotter.
Not 100% sure if that's the case, just seems like it from the few lives I've lived so far.
I was about to look on github, then I figured I'd check the forums.
#887 Re: Main Forum » Your OHOL pet peeves » 2019-07-19 03:58:20
Also the medic should be near where needles and ropes are.
thread
Medic next to needles and thread, where sheeps wool and rabbits are processed, keeps those items between those two areas, that way you don't have to look all over the town for them.
#888 Re: Main Forum » Your OHOL pet peeves » 2019-07-19 03:53:05
Here, even better, swapped the medic and the bakery, this way the bakers can see the rabbits, the mutton, the wheat, the carrots and the berries. They're all just right next door and it's easier to bring in resources.
Especially wanted the baker to be close to the wheat farm, so they can get that wheat for flour easily.
Also the medic should be near where needles and ropes are. This also still keeps the bakery relatively close to the potter, as they need a regular supply of plates and bowls tend to get taken from bakery and used for seeds.
Folks, we don't need 5 bowls of carrot seeds. Leaving 7 seeds on a dried out carrot plant tile takes up less space and frees up a bowl, if I'm not mistaken they don't disappear either, not like they used to, so, please, if someone neglects 10 plots of carrots, and they all go to seed, please, don't fill every bowl you can find with carrot seeds...
#889 Re: Main Forum » Broke the game again Jason. » 2019-07-19 02:50:45
Just need more springs and wells.
Know your neighborhood, get those diagonal roads made.
Fastest way to travel.
a²+b²=c²
#890 Re: Main Forum » The game keeps on showing PLEASE UPDATE GAME FROM STEAM and I did. » 2019-07-19 01:33:08
Been ten minutes of this 
Everything okay?
Anyone in game atm?
#891 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-19 01:17:32
Imo its totally different thing to kill people out of their ignorance. Getting at way of things when you are actually providing more than all the rest of the village people together for the community and someone tryes to hinger your level of produce. Theres a lesson to be learned and people learn best (or atleast remember bit better) when it hurts. You simply dont go f around with you berry bucket moving things around when someone is in middle of making something complex that will serve many generations.
Killing just for the sake of killing is totally different. It serves no goal. There's no lesson to be learned...
I am not saying they are the same thing, but ignoring people's desires to learn the game through experimentation, to kill them, for displaying that desire, certainly may be one of the factors that leads to players simply killing for the sake of killing, in later lives.
When the last lesson of a life, is, I killed you, now you can't be here.
What are people really walking away from that life with?
What lessons will might they pass on, down the road?
The lesson that people like Tarr, and pein, are complaining about, being killed by people who, for all we know, they killed for petty reasons, in previous lives.
Do they both help the community in other ways? Of course.
Have they hurt the community in worse ways than they've helped?
Arguable.
Wells, don't play the game.
Engines, don't play the game.
Sheep pens, don't play the game.
Swords, are not playing the game.
We are.
There is nothing, more valuable to a community, than it's people.
You cannot even compare, the value of a player, to the value of a diesel engine.
To try and argue that it is worth killing someone, that's it's worth harming a player, over making parts for a pump, is ridiculous.
And I am not denying that there are some people coming into this game with the intent of getting laughs, sabotaging what other people are trying to accomplish. I know how fun it can be, I've done a lot of things like that in the past. A lot of things, I can't even say I regret. But I know, in this game, I have seen a lot of people murdered, for a lot of petty reasons. People who were displaying genuine signs that they were new players, just trying to learn how things worked. People standing near the smithy, picking up items and holding them, probably tabbing through the game's menu, trying to learn that way. People hammering the last iron, all the way to mining pick, when a file, or saw, was the tool needed most.
We need to be willing to sacrifice our own life sometimes, we need to be willing to sacrifice, towns, for the future of the players themselves. It's something that is easy to overlook, when you are caught up in the moment. The game has a way of making you feel, like THIS town, THIS life, is going to be the best, almost EVERY time.
If only, you could just get sheep.
If only, you could just get the saw and the bucket, for that stanchion.
If only, you could just get enough iron to make that engine.
If only, you, could have that backpack.
It's ridiculous, what we've killed each other over.
To the point where we kill, just to be the last one alive.
That's not the game Jason has given any indication, that he was out to make.
It's certainly not the game the world is missing out on.
#892 Re: Main Forum » Your OHOL pet peeves » 2019-07-18 17:50:49
Made that picture as I was falling asleep at the PC. Looked like garbage.
Here is something a little cleaner.
I generally expect workflow to be based on the biomes that surround the grasslands that we so often start in.
While early farms are generally located closer to ponds, if the springs are farther away, in the grassland, generally that whole area from the ponds to the spring, becomes farmland.
The location of the nearest prairie generally dictates where rabbits will be dropped off and should help give an indication of where to place sheep pen and bakery. The pen is the source of mutton, dung for compost as well as thread used sewing furs and injuries.
The closer the pen is to the bakery, the easier it is for bakers and herders (feeders and slaughterers) to see each other's supplies of resources.
I think you get the ideas.
Many towns suffer from hasty decisions that later become more and more of a pain to rectify. That leads to messes, clutter and items lost across the town.
There are several bad examples in this spread and of course different areas are different sizes and many areas are consolidated into the same space (medics and nurseries, for instance, though, having pads near the nursery maybe a bad idea as new players might pull out pads just clicking on things out of curiosity).
It just mildly bothers me to see things like the sheep pen and bakery on opposite sides of town.
That said there should always be some spaces between each work area for odds and ends. Towns don't need to be cramped around a single spring or fire.
Another big pet peeve, people that rush nursery floors and walls based on the location of early fires, and cramp the space of the bakery and smithy carelessly.
Anyway, here's the cleaner picture as an example:
I'm sure many of your peeves are caused do to poorly planned workflows.
Towns should grow organically like plants, with leaves towards the sky and roots down into the water, but at the same time, we're a bunch of computer nerds and we like things neat and tidy, but time constraints being what they are, carelessness and haste can lead to mess and disorganization. Planning a town based on the flow of items into, and around, the work areas can help to reduce the likelihood of that disorganization leading to frustration, and, other problems.
#893 Re: Main Forum » Your OHOL pet peeves » 2019-07-18 08:06:37
Something like this
https://i.imgur.com/FxqktR3.png
would be an example of a good workflow setup.
#894 Re: Main Forum » Your OHOL pet peeves » 2019-07-18 08:04:34
People who cut down branched trees, and then cut the firewood up into kindling.
People who burn butt logs.
When there isn't a workflow considered to the arrangement of the areas that compose a town.
Something like this
But the wheat farm could be closer to the bakery to make it evident to the bakers when wheat if available.
And clothing could be closer to the nursery, for moving clothes.
#895 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-18 05:53:10
Personally I think it was enough when we were balancing between taking care of our children, and taking care of the town.
That was more than enough for me to play for 2,000 hours before grabbing my torch and pitchfork and really joining in with the mob. But I still stand behind the opinion that it's more our fault for making the swords, in our towns, than it is your fault that we are using them.
I'm willing to guess your account is not one of the top 20 people making swords, nor are you in the top 20 (by you I mean Jason) list for kills made with them. Tarr, you may be top 5 for both of those categories. But I think that'll change with all the people joining solely based on learning that there are tools solely meant to satiate their murder simulator desires.
#896 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-18 05:24:21
And whats the murder rate in the multiplayer versions of Stardew Valley, Don't Starve or the Sims?
How many people find those games more "interesting"?
I mean, let's just have a look here on Twitch, view counts are kind of a measure of how "interesting" people find games...
Oh, I guess that's not really fair, is it? I mean, not many people use the multiplayer mod for Sims 4 anyway.
I mean, I suppose murder is interesting to someone...
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Can't we just focus more on the trust that the farmers, smiths, and clothiers are going to do their jobs?
I'm pretty sure that is REAL trust too. I don't know if it's toothless trust or not... why does trust need teeth??
I mean, if I trust someone to keep the berries alive and they don't, I'm pretty sure that is my trust biting me in the ass, but, I'm not sure if that is what you mean? If you expect us to bond like soldiers, when our victims and murderers are our moms and kids from one hour to the next, I, don't think you've really thought this through.
#897 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-18 03:45:32
6014 deaths
2244 SIDS deaths
2561 Hunger related/animal deaths
802 old age deaths
307 murder deaths.
Excuse me, of those 2561+802... 3363, deaths.
2244/6014, that's sad.
#898 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-18 03:36:56
307 murders on Sunday out of 6014 deaths.
95% of deaths on Sunday were peaceful.
805 people lived to 60 on Sunday. That's 2.6x the number of people who were murdered.
If you are claiming constant murder in this game, you're either exaggerating for rhetorical purposes (my suspicion) or very unlucky.
You don't like the sword. I get it.
But calling this game a "murder simulator" is ridiculous.
Your numbers don't tell you how many of those 5700 deaths were a release from the fear people had of being murdered in that lifetime. Or what percentage of each of those lives were spent looking at people with bows and knives, wondering if they were going to kill those people, or, spent wondering if working on their town was worth it, if someone with a sword could come in at any moment.
#899 Re: Main Forum » NPR covers One Hour On Life » 2019-07-18 03:22:19
Things are not doomed, Jason.
At least, not that we are sure of.
We have the potential to move the Earth.
Towards the Sun, if the core cools too soon, and away, if the sun expands too fast.
Just one space shuttle, weighs 165,000 pounds.
The Earth, weighs 13,170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds.
If we were to double the number of space shuttle's worth of mass, we sent out into space, every ten years, how long do you think it would be before the entire mass of the Earth, were out there in space?
Let's, for simplicity's sake, even round that number down. Let's say we start by sending 100,000 pounds out into space.
10 years later, 200,000. Doesn't seem unreasonable does it?
Let's carry on doubling, every 10 years.
And you tell me, at what point you think we shouldn't double anymore, otherwise, I'll just keep going, and we'll see how long it takes before we've sent the entire Earth, out into space.
Yr Double Total
10 100000 0+100000= 100000
20 200000 200000+100000= 300000
30 400000 400000+300000= 700000
40 800000 800000+700000= 1500000
50 1600000 1600000+1500000= 3100000
Starting to see a pattern here...
60 3200000 3200000+3100000= 6300000
70 6400000 6400000+6300000= 12700000
80 12800000 12800000+12700000= 25500000
90 25600000 25600000+25500000= 51100000
100 51200000 51200000+51100000= 102300000
You know, I'm kinda lazy, let's look for a power of 2 table...
We're shootin for half the weight of the Earth in pounds, so...
13170000000000000000000000/2 so, 6.585e+24
2^0 1
2^1 2
2^2 4
2^3 8
2^4 16
2^5 32
2^6 64
2^7 128
2^8 256
2^9 512
2^10 1024
2^11 2048
2^12 4096
2^13 8192
2^14 16384
2^15 32768
2^16 65536
2^17 131072
2^18 262144
2^19 524288
2^20 1048576
2^21 2097152
2^22 4194304
2^23 8388608
2^24 16777216
2^25 33554432
2^26 67108864
2^27 134217728
2^28 268435456
2^29 536870912
2^30 1073741824
2^31 2147483648
2^32 4294967296
2^33 8589934592
2^34 17179869184
2^35 34359738368
2^36 68719476736
2^37 137438953472
2^38 274877906944
2^39 549755813888
2^40 1099511627776
2^41 2199023255552
2^42 4398046511104
2^43 8796093022208
2^44 17592186044416
2^45 35184372088832
2^46 70368744177664
2^47 140737488355328
2^48 281474976710656
2^49 562949953421312
2^50 1125899906842624
2^51 2251799813685248
2^52 4503599627370496
2^53 9007199254740992
2^54 18014398509481984
2^55 36028797018963968
2^56 72057594037927936
2^57 144115188075855872
2^58 288230376151711744
2^59 576460752303423488
2^60 1152921504606846976
2^61 2305843009213693952
2^62 4611686018427387904
2^63 9223372036854775808
2^64 18446744073709551616
2^65 36893488147419103232
2^66 73786976294838206464
2^67 147573952589676412928
2^68 295147905179352825856
2^69 590295810358705651712
2^70 1180591620717411303424
2^71 2361183241434822606848
2^72 4722366482869645213696
2^73 9444732965739290427392
2^74 18889465931478580854784
2^75 37778931862957161709568
2^76 75557863725914323419136
2^77 151115727451828646838272
2^78 302231454903657293676544
2^79 604462909807314587353088
2^80 1208925819614629174706176
2^81 2417851639229258349412352
2^82 4835703278458516698824704
2^83 9671406556917033397649408
2^84 19342813113834066795298816
2^85 38685626227668133590597632
So, 2^82= 4.8357033e+24
and 2^83= 9.6714066e+24
but we started with 5 zeroes, remember, 100,000 pounds.
So, we can go up this, to numbers with e+19 places, right?
And, we find 2^66= 7.3786976e+19
Now, to convert that back to our first chart...
2^1= 2
But if I want to turn that power of 2 into tens of years, I'm going to have to add 1
So, where 2^0= 1, that 1 is really 1, hundred thousand pounds and that 0 is really 1, times 10 years.
Make sense?
So 2^1 represents 20 years, and the 2, is really 200,000 pounds and the total is that + 100,000 pounds.
All that said, correct me if I'm wrong, but
2^66, would be 670 years, and in that time, we would have moved 73786976294838206464, add the 5 zero places, 7378697629483820646400000, 7,378,697,629,483,820,646,400,000 or
Years Double Total
670 7378697629483820646400000 7378697629483820646400000+7378697629483820646300000= 14757395258967641292700000
14,757,395,258,967,641,292,700,000 pounds moved out into space, after, 670 years. Earth is
13,170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds.
Now, obviously we're not going to aeresolize the Earth into 131,700,000,000,000,000,000 shuttles, 65,000 pounds lighter than the space shuttle, in 670 years time.
But we don't have to do it that soon, we don't have only 670 years, or only 6,700 years, or only 67,000 years, or only 670,000 years, or only 6,700,000 years. No, we probably have more like 670 million, based on what we know about the expansion of the sun, and the time it's going to take before it's boiling all the water on Earth, and, thats if we don't speed it up ourselves, or, and here's the kicker, slow it down, at some point in the future.
But even if we only did that doubling every 100 years, it would still only be 6,700 years, before we had entirely relocated the Earth by turning it into 131 quintillion, 65 thousand pound smaller than shuttle, sized vessels.
You're still worrying about small stuff Jason.
The Earth, the Sun, the Solar System; small things, for the humans... the beings, that are going, to be working throughout space, millions of years from now, let alone billions (10^9), or trillions (10^12) or, you know what, how about you scroll down this list and look at some of those 10^n, where n>12, numbers, and you keep in mind, just how amazing human beings are, when we make machines, that make machines ^n, like the automobile, when we put our minds to it.
You've heard of the Kardeshev scale, I take it?
Type 1 - We master everything about our planet.
Type 2 - We master everything about our Sun.
Type 3 - We master the galaxy itself.
Well, try to imagine a normal day, on a type 1.572 planet, where the flights between planets are like taxis in New York.
Or a 2.195, when generations aboard interstellar vessels, are measured by the fraction of the distance they travel between their parent and child stars.
Don't you worry Jason, Blade Runner wasn't a prediction made by scientists, it was just a story.
#900 Re: Main Forum » Tarr » 2019-07-17 19:28:09
You seen this first hand when we put our swords down and tried to reforge them in that little town, there were no swords to plowshares. We disarmed ourselves in protest of the swords but in that we only armed more of the players who would want to destroy.
For now, this is the best thing we have to undo the damage.
But, of course, it's much easier to make the sword than it is for people to unmake it.
Because of you, pein, and every other smith that throws a fit whenever someone else is trying to work at the smithy, this is as far as I've made it towards learning to use the Newcomen machines.
I've been working to counter that attitude that pein and others have been infectiously spreading through the game; the hate and disconnect, the lack of consideration for the education, of other players. It's one thing for us to focus on being productive in one area of the game, so that others may be productive elsewhere, but it's another when we deny players the opportunity to go through the motions themselves by insulting them, even stabbing them, for 'getting in our way when we are trying to work' and making everyone afraid to explore anything more than keeping berries alive.
I'm sorry, but education of the playerbase should be our main concern, every life.
Some people have not been taught that. Some, struggle to understand it, due to other experiences in their lives. I know even I myself, don't fully understand it, as I have failed to hold onto my teaching positions, many times in my actual life. I have sacrificed many jobs, and many opportunities to carry on teaching, because I have felt that one message, was greater than everything else. Those were mistakes. Real life mistakes that have cost me my livelihood, my health and ultimately, the financial stability to feel confident enough to form a relationship with someone else that may have lead to a family of my own.
It hurts to see others make similar mistakes, but I don't want to fight and quarrel with people over living the way they think they should be living. Though I still do.
Obviously, I still do.
It has always been clear to me why people like pein have wanted to be in charge, of the jobs where the tools which could potentially be used as weapons, were required. They are insecure, mentally, and having those weapons handy, havig the option to kill those who challenge you, a click away, brings them a peace of mind that words; that their family, teachers and community, have failed to give them.
It is not our fault though. Nor is it the fault of the community. This is just, us, human beings, crawling out of the water, drying ourselves on the shore and finding our wings, to greater things. This, really is life. And we are not to blame for our own habits and idiosyncrasies. What we can be blamed for, however, is having known how to prevent these things from happening, yet failing to do so. By not choosing to do a good thing, the moment the choice is presented to us, we set the future on a course, where that, one thing, that, act of kindness and consideration, never took place.
When we close our windows, because our neighbor has left his dog out in the cold, and it's whimpers, are eroding our conscience.
When we carry on driving down the road, after seeing someone has been in an accident.
When we pretend to ignore a mother and a crying child, the way the mother, is pretending to ignore the child.
The world becomes, a little worse of a place, to be alive.
I could probably not even count, the number of times I have recognized pein in game, by his actions.
They have always been around weapons.
Near, every life, whether it has been the bow, the knife or the sword.
And I don't blame people for wanting to be like that as well.
Just as I don't blame the founding fathers of America, for their lack the foresight, when it comes to the problem of the second amendment to the constitution, the owning of slaves, and the problems that plague so many cities, across the country, in the present. The problem of the descendants of those slaves, using guns, on one another, as misunderstandings arise.
But what can we do, about it now? That is what is important. Not what our ancestors did in the past, but what we do, now.
Me, I will carry on teaching. I will draw light into dark corners of the past, as I carry on, urging people to, to seek light elsewhere.
I don't deny humanity has made mistakes. I accept that what distinguishes us from the other life on Earth, is that we can address them. We can deal with them, and we can solve them. And in so doing, we can take on greater challenges. Challenges cowards like Jason, are afraid to accept.
...in general, I'm not trying to help or save the world.
Dec 17, 2018, 5:47 PM, after I asked him what he would have done if he would have been in Elon Musk's position as a programmer, after Paypal was sold and he walked away from that, with $160 million dollars.
Part of me thinks Jason doesn't want to be more successful. Part of me thinks, he wants to go on to keep saying how many games he's made that few, have ever heard of. Boy, what a bragging right. I made 20 games. I made 30 games. I made 40 games. Maybe someday, he'd have been able to say he made 100 games. What an accomplishment. What an ego booster.
To someone who thinks a game, is important.
And I think they are.
But not as important, as the future of space exploration.
Certainly not as important, as the people who make and play them.
Not as important as you, dear reader.
No game, is more important than you.
You, fleshy meat sack.
You blob of guts and bones, with a brain.
You skin donut, with a hole from your mouth to your ass, and blood filling.
You big eyeballed juggernaut of a hundred million year old mutant mouse genes.
You reproduction, of reproduction.
Let us go into the future, together.
Let us celebrate, this fucking amazing thing, that is life.
Together.
Hold me, mommy.
Good luck, son.