a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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I bet some beople don't even fill up their all skill slots and then die of old age without filling all just because they feel like they may need a skill slot later on. "Should I do this? Better not waste my skill slot for this, maybe that? nah, let's not waste my skill for that either xD"
Yeah, that's been me. My first few lives I filled them up, but since then I'm always preserving tool slots just in case I need it more for something else. I feel way less productive, lol. Before I tended to play a "jack of all trades" role most of the time. It's been a huge distraction having to think about whether a tool slot is worth learning.
Pumpkin pie would be nice. Kitchens have seemed to be more barren of food than usual since the rabbit update, so it would help partially replace the previously abundant supply of rabbits. 20% chance to produce pumpkin isn't nearly enough to completely replace rabbits, which is fine, pies have been OP. Months ago i considered the possibility of a barbeque/grill (hot coals/flat rock on coals) building and why it didn't already exist as part of the metagame. Aside from these foods being generally less efficient which DestinyCall helped me notice, i realized that storage options are the main obstacle as only fish and cooked rabbit can be stored in slot boxes (and rabbits are way worse now). I don't think tacos, burritos, fries or chips can be stored in slot boxes, but even if they can its only a marginal improvement compared to plates all over the floor, and one of the best items in this category, eggs, is horribly space inefficient; all of these factors making this type of cooking best suited for a one-off edge of town cooking session.
The hints do the easy part
But this game is so much better to play if you just read trou the techtree anyway
Half an hour and you have stuff to do for three lifes
Yes, but i think that is going to tend to come later on. I do that now instead of asking in game. I like to feel competent in a game but devoting time into getting better comes after time spent playing kindles an interest. At first there are enough easy tasks that can also be easily taught, that can keep someone busy for a long time, but it is a lot more effortful to discover on your own. And once you know basic tasks you're asking a much higher opportunity cost for other players to teach you, and there are fewer knowledgeable people to ask. But if i've only played 2 or 4 hours or whatever, I'm not going to be willing to research online much at all - I still haven't even decided yet if i like the game enough for that - but feeling encouraged to continue to play may get (someone) to continue to that point.
MultiLife, what you describe in your "story" life and your "reality" life IS the same story. You're describing your real time third person thoughts compared to your later-on full consideration of the story that actually played out. Your "reality" life is a bit more cynical i would say. I don't like to participate in a lot of elaborate, contrived roleplay either. I put myself into the first person while i play, and while I play as myself, i will add in details that i find help with my immersion, such as talking about events as if i was experiencing them in reality. Personally I've played for genetic fitness since it was introduced, and before that lineage depth, and i would say these approaches are complimentary to one another, as emotionally investing in a life seems to help inspire more players to play their best.
Well the easy stuff is done by the hints.
It can be. The hints are not as easy to grasp as crafting recipes in most games though where they will show you an exact list of all ingredients needed which are to be combined all at once to get what you want.
Like Kaveh said, different people like to learn in different ways. Your suggestions probably work for some players given that it probably would work for you since you suggest it. For me when i was new, receiving support and guidance from an experienced player to guide me through the steps was a warm and comforting feeling, something a database of information can't provide. It was important for me to feel that in a game where you see effectively endless possibilities that you don't know how to do any of, it feels very helpless.
Anyway, just trying to provide some additional perspective, carry on ![]()
Bears are probably the main reason to build a fence around town. Arrows is a nicer solution since then you don't have to deal with a fence around town. My impression though is people seem very eager to pick up stray arrows and run off with them. Towns usually have mostly safe tiles for hiding from bears, but they do have to be removed eventually.
The update makes sense to me.. Though I am still getting used to it - I've been experiencing a lot of decision paralysis when considering picking up any tool, and whereas before I might idly empty the diesel well into a cistern and refuel it while contemplating more important things to do - now I think twice, realize I wasn't planning to use any water right now anyway and run off in search of a more important job that i didn't have time to think about yet since i wasted it considering whether the tool was worth picking up. In time i will get more comfortable with limited tool slots though and learn how to budget them effectively without being overly conservative with them as i am now.
Cons
- one player can't be as productive
Pros
- encourages meaningful communication
- encourages involving new players in productive tasks even if teaching was never your plan.
Yes, people killing their mom doesn't really happen a lot and would be hard to get away with, but it still makes sense to fix it and take the incentive away of doing so. Why is that a problem?
It's more important than its ever been, that's why we have all these threads discussing it and how to balance it now for pretty much the first time.
Remember, Grandma's bones make a great musical instrument!
Also, nice work miskas! I had thought about doing this once oil wells were reduced to 5, but I really haven't played much since that change until recently.
StrongForce wrote:65 hours not long in my opinion should go on for longer.
And what you do in towns full of everything?
Cloth your kids, maintain the town, make yum food or luxury items, build buildings, roads, parks, or work on a new skill you want to learn. There's always something that can be done if you want there to be, you can even chat, roleplay, dance, or make music if you want. And this level of town is great for boosting genetic fitness as long as it's before the stab frenzy starts. For me it stops being fun once the mass stabbings begin, or when resources are running out, keeping me from doing things I want to. I get some people find it boring earlier than that though.
Ideally I think the progress to the fully developed town would take longer so it was more of a gradual build up before reaching the "has everything" stage.
What's this "night" you speak of? I've never heard of it.
jasonrohrer wrote:why would we build homes if we don't care about our family?
Because having a shelter would be NECESSARY in order to survive and because not everyone around you would be related, so feeding them = less food for your own family.
But you would still cooperate with them because you need crafted ressources from them, but since they are not part of your family even lineage it wouldn't be a everything is shared dynamic it would be trade.
But currently shelters/houses are not a necessity for survival and everyone in the same village is related, both of those are untrue IRL so obviously something is not happening right since these variables are missing.
Then the caring about family part can be added alongside
A winter season where shelter is needed to stay warm, natural disaster where you need to seek shelter, or some kind of (more threatening than we currently have) animal attack to protect from. Building doors could have ownership or I guess lock and key, but that has a tendency to turn into a prison.
Also it would be beyond adorable if we had school for kids to attend. A teacher could explain and demonstrate various skills. The tool mechanic could even be worked in with it being an opportunity for kids to learn tools. Some students would eagerly learn, while others were rambunctious and distracting. Then the teacher would have a baby mid-lesson and run off to find clothes for the baby and no one would step in to replace her. I guess it would get kind of tedious if you had to go through that every life though. Well, It started off as a nice idea.
Coconut Fruit wrote:There would be "gl" without "bye" if we could communicate through whole life, even without being next to each other. To me it would be much better if we had "unralistic" communication system,
I'm not sure how workable it would be to make us able to communicate in giant paragraphs or anything.
But you know what would also really, really, really help? If I could tell at a glance who my kids actually are. As it is, most people in town look alike, so I either have to remember what they're wearing -- which could change -- or take the time to scroll over someone to find out whether they're my beloved daughter or my uninteresting sixth cousin.
I know making new skins is time-consuming for Jason, but making them a high priority seems like an extremely good idea to me.
Yeah I agree, some kind of at-a-glance visual indicator. Even just a colored outline or something. Your own family tends to look exactly the same as everyone else, and you run past each other without even noticing.
This seems interesting... I wonder how that would work, technically it could mean that if you're a baby's first mother and you do a shit job and then the next 10 mothers do a great job with that baby then your rank could subsequently drop even long after the relevant life. I'm guessing that would break the transparency issue though
Usually elo style rating systems don't retroactively adjust scores. It just uses past results to generate the score, not future. So if you were the first mom a new player has they would have whatever the default starting score is and future results wouldn't impact how that initial interaction was scored. If for some reason initial score was way off (say experienced player with a new account), this would skew the results short term, but long term both scores would converge to their "true" value anyway. Think if I got boosted up to a 48, but it "should" be a 45, I will lose more points and gain less on subsequent trials than if it had been the "correct" 45 initially.
"How much your score jumps after an offspring dies in OHOL depends on how surprising the result is."
So we have the player A that constantly dies at 60 no matter what his mother is, gets born to a player B that his bbs on average die at 20.
What is the unexpected event The player A die at 60 again or at 20?
Player A dies at 20 is the unexpected event cause he is supposed to die at 60 no mother what his mother is.When you count Ranking you have to consider the Ranking of the opponent, The ranking of player A is 60 and he died at 20 with this mother so something has to be gone wrong. but the player B with the current system goes unaffected by this unexpected event.
Score gain has to calculate the Average age of death of the bb to see if this mother has a positive or a negative influence.
Score gain= Age of death of kid - the Average age of death of the bb.
Yeah! I was just working on posting an idea about this. What if gene score compared how long a player usually lives for to how long they lived in the current life and awarded a score based on that? So having say a new player that tends to die early live until 60 would give their family a big boost, but that experienced kid you had who always lives to 60 gives everyone a smaller boost when they do so since it's more "expected".
I think it might remove the upper and lower score limit though.
I think there is more cooperation. Some about dividing the workload to conserve tool spots, a lot about players cutely trying to use a tool they don't have a spot for and not knowing why. Eventually it will be more of the former though. Still seeing people confused why their rabbit trap is not working too. Luckily it's pretty easy to step in and show how or explain both.
It's a mix of luck and skill, even what happens after you die. It's about making decisions that marginally increase the chance of your family living, like getting clothes to your babies, making batches of pies or compost, and in general doing what you can to improve and stabilize the basic resources that are necessary for survival. It won't guarantee anything but on average your family will have a better chance of survival in a village if you keep it well maintained than if you don't. Things like runner babies and new players balance out in the long run, so while they're annoying at the time, everyone gets that about equally.
This would all be perfect if every starting scenario was about the same - those who were better at providing would build up a larger score on average. The issue is every scenario is not the same, eve camps are tougher to survive in so playing at that stage will tend to be detrimental to life score, while a developed town is probably more beneficial to gene score on average. Some dynamics of the game contradict the gene score dynamic as well. For example two days ago I was in a nice starting camp with a well and one other person. Things were coming along nicely but then I started to have babies, around six in 5 or 10 minutes. I had no yum chain and no clothing. We didn't have the food supply to support more than probably one ideally, maybe two. So at that point the correct decision to avoid exhausting the village of resources so that it can continue would be to let four or five of those babies starve and tank my gene score. Two of these were new players too. Now I have a hard time bringing myself to leave any babies to starve, so I fed them all. The other player I had been peacefully working with cursed me, and the food supply was exhausted shortly after and we all starved. I understand I was cursed because I had too many babies and tried to keep them all. And I guess this type of scenario also balances out.. is it a desirable dynamic though? And I think it illustrates too how much better for gene score developed towns are, here I was forced into a scenario where my gene score was going to go way down regardless of what I did, which is ok, but gene score treats all scenarios as the same, and a developed town you don't really have this dilemma. I don't like also how the correct move can be to starve your babies, especially new players being the best choice to starve, but I'm not sure what can realistically be done about that.
pein wrote:just dump shit to separate groups, put shit near it and point at it
That takes more effort and there is no pointing mechanic as far as I know.
"It's over there!"
Where?
"THERE!"
As far as I can remember from university, there is not much structural difference at all between male and female brains. There is more difference within a sex than between the two. The only difference i can remember is during EEG studies (senses regions of brain activity), when asked to perform a specific task males tend to have activity primarily in the area relevant to the task, whereas females tend to have activity in a more diverse array of areas in addition to the primary area. It wasn't known why at the time. Perhaps further studies have been done in this area, but it's not like i keep up with the current research.
This could either be horrible or fantastic. In the state of the game now it seems at first like it would be a huge pain. In most lives I'm running around doing a variety of odds and ends tasks as needed in order to advance/maintain the village and using a wide variety of tools a few times to do so. Eventually I would lack the tool slots to do what is needed, which would decrease my productivity and I'd have to count on someone else to do a necessary task. This has the potential to be quite frustrating as leaving tasks to be done by others ends up pretty hit or miss, and a miss can't always be afforded.
Its at this point that it's make or break for tool slots. Thinking about being in game now and not having tool slots to say, make a bucket, and having to ask someone else to do it, you're likely to run into a bunch of people who ignore you, or say they don't know how, or say sure and then run off never to be seen again (died?) And then you end up doing it yourself anyway. In the current game you realize it's generally faster and and more reliable just to do everything yourself. At least if you die no one was waiting for you to get back with something they needed. Someone else will notice your half finished project later and finish it.
Tool slots would likely force people away from this approach/playstyle, and instead to be required to rely on others to complete some important tasks. While I've probably sufficiently described how this can be challenging, I think it also has the potential to very beneficial on the longer term, at a smaller short term cost. We won't be able to give up on finding help so we'll have to find someone to do the task. Sometimes it will be another experienced player who will understand the situation and take care of it with no problem. Sometimes we will have to pick an "I don't know how" player with an available tool slot and walk them through the process step by step. This is where the long term benefit comes in because the game mechanics will be forcing us to teach newer players how to do some more Intermediate or even complex tasks, making them feel useful and valued, and they will learn skills that will make them more knowledgeable and capable in future lives, which to me, seems like it would make them more likely to continue to play because they will feel more competent and useful. While the time spent teaching them will slow your own progress at the time, in the long run teaching these players should in theory decrease the pressure on more experienced players to do everything themselves. It also encourages more meaningful interactions in game, either involving newer players in the game, or even if it's two experienced players dividing the workload.
This could be a really great change even though thinking about these restrictions right now seems more like a negative initially. The success of this update depends a lot on how things unfold when we run out of tool slots to complete necessary tasks.
I do have concerns with what counts as a tool. I think weapons as a tool is fine. I think stones shouldn't be tools as sharp stone is probably too essential for survival and used in too many tasks, and flint chip is basically a weaker knife. Also there's things like the draw plate that have very specific and limited applications. Some aspects of the tech tree could become completely neglected if certain tools are seen as not worthwhile.
Now, it also depends on the monitor.
The game is native at 1280x720
If your monitor is bigger than this, the image is upscaled. This results in some blurring (bi-linear interpolation on the gpu) but no aliasing (shimmering artifacts). Four years ago, I had to pick between the two, and I decided that blurring was way better than shimmering.
SO.... on your monitor, if you're running at 1920x1080, that's exactly 1.5x 1280x720. At 1.0x zoom, there will be some interpolation, but if you zoom out to 1.5x zoom, you will see "pixel perfect" graphics with no blurring and no shimmering.
So, if I wanted pixel-perfect graphics everywhere, I could have varied the view scale depending on the monitor. However, on 4K, this would have made everything very tiny, and the fonts hard to read. And I really didn't want different people having different views of the world anyway.
Ah, I am using a 1920x1080 monitor. Thanks for the explanation ![]()
Regarding zoom-out, have you seen the modded client and how ugly that looks?
The server is only sending you a 32x30 map chunk, which is barely enough for the 10x7 view in the vanilla client.
Thus, the modded client is showing "map unknown" off the edges all the time, and the map blinks into existence out there.
Supporting zoom officially would require sending even bigger map chunks to the client, which would result in even more processing load on the server, resulting in fewer max players per server. Yeah, fog of war, etc. is possible.... but there's another reason:
The "shimmer" effect on sharp lines when zoomed out. I didn't spend time making sharp, hand-drawn, scanned artwork to have it look like a shimmery mess in the official client.
This game is not supposed to feel or look like an RTS.
It's supposed to be a game about complex social interaction.
Its enough to operate on 1.5x and maybe even 2x zoom consistently without seeing the squiggly lines at the edges. Beyond that, yeah it gets pretty ugly but could still be useful. What I noticed from trying the mod last night, and maybe it's just on my end, but the image resolution is actually sharpest at 1.5x zoom and at 1x it looks distorted and zoomed in by comparison. It actually had me wondering if 1.5x was your initial plan but went with the current 1x for performance reasons. Though since the program is sending the extra information anyway, maybe it has nothing to do with performance. I think that a larger field of view helps with social situations because you can be more aware of happenings around you.
The only reason I downloaded the mod is for zoom. If even just 1.5x was a standard option I probably wouldn't have felt the need.
I stubbornly stuck to no mod up until last night, but eventually I got too frustrated about not being able to find things I was looking for and wasting a lot of time because of it.
After playing a little bit with the zoom mod last night, it almost seems like 1.5x zoom was intended to be the default, as it has the best graphics resolution.