a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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I get the reasoning behind the rabbit change, but a big problem with it is that it makes rabbit clothes kind of a noob trap. It also gives us less things to do - no more rabbit hunting unless it's early on in the arc.
I also think it's a bit inelegant and heavy-handed - we already have different variations of rabbit holes, so why not make them exhaust over time (Family -> Single -> Abandoned), similar to Tarry Spots or Goose Ponds.
The good thing about it is that it makes the loom more attractive since rabbit fur clothes are now limited. That means there will be a greater visual distinction between early towns and advanced towns.
Of course if we also get rabbit domestication then this change is perfectly fine.
The pond change is fine IMO, but also kind of irrelevant since they were already largely useless as a water source once initially drained. You'd have to get super lucky to find 10 ponds in any given area, and even then 80 bowls of water over 24 hours is completely irrelevant. I'd say that most empty ponds get filled in anyway.
Oxygen Not Included has more content? Surely you're joking, Mr. Spoonman.
TOTAL: 594
OHOL Total: 2763
Yes, a lot of those in OHOL are objects in various states. But it's clear that OHOL is on par or beyond ONI in terms of content size. And it was just made by one guy. And I've still got thousands of things to add.
What? Most objects in ONI also have several stages, it's just that those are not displayed on the DB. If they were, the number of 'objects' in ONI would greatly overshadow the number of 'objects' in OHOL.
You can't really say that stuff like this counts as twelve different objects.
I love OHOL very much, and I prefer it to ONI and I think it's a better game, but saying that OHOL has more content is just bizarre.
I have also thought about stuff like:
--Running the current limited Eve spiral and Eve window and arc stuff, but without any border at all. There's an invisible box where all the Eves spawn, but after that, people can go wherever.
I really really really like this. I thought about it as well but I figured you'd be against it since I thought the point of the rift was to introduce a limited playspace.
Woah, really? That's amazing, I had no idea.
it's right here - https://onemap.wondible.com/#x=330&y=18 … 1571229693
It was tapped by the same town who tapped the double set. The one I linked was the first one they tapped, and when it ran out they tapped the double set.
Yes, that's exactly what happened. The apocalypse was triggered with a Nosaj tower, and when the new Arc started the Eve window didn't open which means there were only two families that just couldn't keep up with the influx of babies.
twisted have you ever try zoom mode?
Zoom mode enable you to do a lot more interesting staff than vanila.
Yes, a bunch of times. I think it makes the game easier and more manageable, and it's basically needed if you want to play the game at a higher skill level, but I wouldn't say it makes it more (or less) interesting.
Jason, I fully agree with everything you said! OHOL has a very high new player churn rate and that's a massive problem. But I think the Rift doesn't make the game more interesting or compelling yet (it might some day), I think it does the opposite. And that's why I think the last three months being almost entirely about the Rift is not a great thing for player retenion.
Also, the through-fence storage boxes are not a game changer at all. One day, if and when Property Fences are used for actual property, they will be crucial and super important and we will love them. But as things currently stand, Property Fences are used almost exclusively for animal pens and town walls, and that's a fact that no one can deny. Through-fence storage boxes are nice to have extre mutton storage in the pen, but they don't have much use besides that.
Just to be clear I would love for personal property to be in the game, to be born in my family's house and to trade with my neighbors. The through-fence storage box will be incredible then, but the game is not yet at that point.
I always assumed we were specimens in a zoo on an alien planet. It is pretty obvious, when you think about it.
That's why we have a rift - so we don't escape. And why we have sky babies - genetic tinkering to make our species easier to keep alive in captivity. And why our "environment" is a patchwork of geograghically distinct biomes that occur right next to each other and only contain a small assortment of plants and animals from Earth. The animals and other stuff was gathered from our home planet and added to the exhibit to make it look more "realistic" and visually interesting for the zoo visitors.
The apocolypse is just our zoo keeper cleaning up our exhibit when it gets too messy.
This is canon now, All praise Jason Gazorp, our alien overlord.
Please, step in the time machine and see what it was like 18 months ago. Then tell me that you honestly think it is way worse today than it used to be, OR that it is a worse new player experience today than it was 18 months ago. There was no tutorial 18 months ago.
This is a very weird argument - of course OHOL is a better game today than it was 18 months ago. No one is saying that it was better 18 months ago. Three months ago, sure, I and probably quite a few others think that OHOL was a more enjoyable game three months ago, but 18 months ago? I don't see anyone saying that.
What I, and assume others, are frustrated with is the fact that the past three months of updates have been exclusively about the Rift & the Arc, a mechanic that is widely disliked, and that he past six months were largely about introducing player conflict in a game which most players came into expecting a co-op experience. There were so many drastic changes this year, most of them (in my opinion) very good changes. But a large amount of players were introduced to the game through Steam, where OHOL is implied to be a mostly finished game mechanics-wise due to not having the Early Access tag.
Many people bought the game expecting what was shown in the trailer, a game with weekly content updates that add a dozen+ items each week, but core mechanics of OHOL are currently developed enough for us to be there yet. That's OK, making a perfect game takes time, but when most updates are mechanics improvements and bug tweaks (both of which are extremely important for the health and quality of the game) people just lose interest. The average player doesn't think "Oh hey nice the last three months had a lot of good tweaks," they think "Hey, I bought this game expecting weekly updates, but everything has been exactly the same for the past three months!" The last content update that added several items was the camera update on April 28th, almost six months ago (or the High Society update three weeks prior to that if you don't count camera ingredients as separate items). The Rift is on everyone's mind because it's been just Rift Rift Rift for the mast three months. Halloween is coming up, and I bet everyone would be thrilled to see pumpkins added, and it being thematic it might draw in some extra traffic from Steam - they often feature games with content or updates that are relevant to real life events.
TL;DR most updates are amazing/great, but a lot of the recent ones haven't been very interesting.
New players dont leave because of the difficulty
They leave because the game is unpractical, tedious and unintuitive
Which makes it difficult but not in a good way, in a frustrating unfun way
They get annoyed and leave.
If you died but gradually progressed and learned each time it wouldn't be an issue
But right now the learning curve is not only too steep but also too messy and confusing
It's basically too much effort to invest in the game and unless you are really into it you leave
This 100%. OHOL is brilliant, but it has a very high learning curve. Hopefully the newest update helps with that, we'll see. I think a quick and dirty improvement would be to add more variety to the tutorial, make the end area kind of a playground, even moreso than it is now. Tease the player with cool stuff. Replace most Berry Bushes with Banana Trees, Tomato Plants, Corn, Sliced Bread, and Stew - let the player experiment and learn how to pick Bread from a plate or grab Stew in a safe area, and teach them that berries are not the main food. Add a Fence that needs to be 'unlocked' with a Short Shaft and put a Cow in there. Drop some seed bowls in an area that has different stages of soil/tilled row. Tell them they can play through the tutorial whenever they want if they want to explore it. Make it kind of a single player interactive experience (at the same time giving people a higher chance of encountering other players breaking out, making for cool moments).
Here is a clip from probably the first twisted video I watched. Plenty of people just standing. Twisted can just go into the desert without instantly dying. No speedy dying on no clothing in cold biomes either.
I think the current temperature system makes a lot more sense. Back then new players were still dying rapidly and having a hard time because a person't first instinct is to find some clothes and get dressed, and that used to be deadly which was a bit nonsensical. Grasslands and prairies also look a lot more friendly than scorching deserts, when it fact it was the opposite. It also meant that two aspects of the game, buildings and clothing, were completely detrimental - which makes zero sense in a game that wants to emulate human development. You used to be able to tell apart new players and pros just by looking if they were wearing a full set of clothing. The game is much easier these days (IMO) if you know what you're doing - as long as you're wearing good clothing and keeping up a Yum chain you will never be close to starvation, even if you run into a jungle/desert. And honestly clothing SHOULD be crucial in a game such as OHOL. Buildings should as well, and hopefully one day they will be.
@pein
So you can't place 3 of the goose stumps one tile south west and north of the tarry spot to block the oil rig from being able to place or remove the tank?
Even if you could goose stumps don't block walking, so it would have the exact same effect as planting a berry bush or something similar.
I don't think voice chat would be a good idea. I personally like chat the way it is (word limits and all).
One thing that I think could be improved is to make chat boxes overlap less. If you're talking to a person that's standing on an adjacent tile you often have to move away a bit so your speech bubbles don't cover each other up.
I haven't read the entire thread but I just wanted to pop in and say that I agree that limiting names by gender was completely unnecessary. I don't like that change.
1. If you don't like the town you're born into, and you're a woman, just leave and start a new town. There's plenty of empty space around, right? That is essentially the "Eve game."
First of all, it's not the same thing. Second of all, it's literally impossible as the Rift is extremely tiny. It takes under two minutes to cross on a horse, which is early game tech. There's no empty space, there's no untouched land. Third of all, even if it were possible, it would feel like you're making the game artificially harder to make it more enjoyable. Saying to 'just start a new town if you don't like your town' is kind of like saying 'play the with your controls inverted'. Sure, it would be harder and maybe more enjoyable once or twice, but other than that it's just kinda dumb.
2. Beyond (1), what your'e asking for (lots of Eve camps or young towns 24-7) is not long-term sustainable, unless all towns die out in short order. That is in fact what used to happen, for the most part, which is why the game was more exciting before. In order to "make room" for a viable Eve camp in the player population, an established town has to die out. There are only so many babies to go around, and if babies are going to an Eve camp, that means they're not going to an established town.
This is just plain not true. Most towns would die out, sure, but some would last days or weeks. You had both the excitement of something new and the familiarity of something old. You never knew where you were going to spawn and what your life would be. Every life you were thrown into a unique situation.
(2) means that everything you build is lost in about a day. I'm guessing that most people don't like that too much. People are currently complaining that everything is lost in 5 days at the end of the arc. "EVERYTHING WE BUILD IS POINTLESS!" But, you know, before the arc, everything you built was usually lost in less than 24 hours.
Unless I'm missing something, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to have it both ways. Permanence and Novelty fight each other. If it's permanent, you're going to encounter the same thing over and over. If it's novel, well, then it's new, and it must not be permanent.
Again, this is just completely untrue, and honestly just reading it is kind of frustrating. Most towns were lost in about a day, but every now and then a town would last for weeks. It would be something exciting and interesting and different. Pre-Arc you never knew if the town you were in would die out in six hours or last for three weeks. Anything could happen! It was INTERESTING!
These days we know that the worst town in the world will last for exactly the same amount of time as the best town in the world, with that time being somewhere between 3-8 days. If you play on day 6 of the Arc you know everything is going to be destroyed soon. You no longer play as one small part of a greater story, you just do whatever and the story ends when the timer is up. Your life is completely irrelevant.
The Arc is a failed experiment. It was supposed to create more meaningful and more interesting stories, but it's done the exact opposite of that for me and for a lot of other people. Please, free us from this hell cell.
Empty buckets.
If you have a bunch of empty buckets in real life, what do you do with them? You stack them on top of one another! I assume that's why most buckets are in the shape of a truncated cone.
It's 24 hours. I think it's there to prevent a situation where you get a good score and then stop playing out of fear of losing your leaderboard position.
I do agree that it's too short.
Three of the five oldest family lines ever are from this arc. I think the new baby distribution and curse changes were both a great success.
Now the big problem that remains is that we go from zero tech to the top of the tech tree very early on in the arc, and it's just stagnation from that point on.
I think I'm going to make a new list of first names, separated by M and F, and enforce that when picking a name for you bb.
I don't like the idea of enforcing M and F names. They're not enforeced in real life, so why enforce them ingame? Sure, most names have a gender that they're most associated with, but there's plenty of exceptions.
If there was no name list people would just name their babies Iahdjafg or Ohznbry. And that would be dumb.
Also, manually filtering out all offensive names is literally impossible.
The current system works great imo.
Killing is not in the game as "part of the game," as in, "the meat of the game." It's in there because it's necessary. You need to get rid of someone who is messing up the town and breaking the rules. That's the only reason that it's there.
Making it impossible to kill a griefer alone is not the solution. If the griefer wants to kill, they'll go for anyone, for someone who seems distracted by something else. They'll find a target. But if you want to kill a griefer, you want to kill one specific person. One specific person that will be expecting you to come after them. And with this change you are 100% unable to kill them if you only have one weapon. Which means towns will need a lot more weapons on average, which will in turn increase the murder rate even further.
I like the other changes but I feel like this might be a bit over the top. Why not see how the other murder/cursing changes pan out first?
The best part about the Rift is that it intensifies the problems that were already present so that they are easier to find and deal with. For example, the problem with bears resetting in their caves producing too many of them was discovered because of the Rift.
I agree with this. The best thing about the Rift is that we got so many great changes as a result of it. The new biome generation is great, hungry work is a really nice mechanic, we can finally remove property fences, we can upgrade iron mines, and most permanent tile-blocking items became deconstructable. I don't think we'd have any of those changes without the Rift, and for that I'm very thankful. But I really want to see the game with those changes and without the Rift - I think it would be the best version of OHOL yet.
Troublemakers getting a slowdown when they're trying to catch you is nice.
On the other hand, you getting a slowdown when you're trying to stop a griefer from stealing your baby/engine/cart is very not nice.
I feel like this change is a bigger buff to troublemakers than to regular players. If a griefer wants to murder someone they can choose from a number of people and they'll pick the easiest target. If the target runs, they'll switch to someone else.
If you're trying to stop said griefer with this change you can't do it alone, you need at least two people with weapons. This sounds like a death sentence to small towns. A griefer can pick your people off one by one while you're scrambling to make more weapons.
It will be almost impossible to kill a griefer alone, while the griefer will have no trouble killing someone. Even worse, griefers don't care about being killed because their life is disposable.
I don't like it. If you decide to go with this posse mechanic the default should be 1x speed, but I don't really like the sound of the mechanic at all. Of course I haven't tried it yet so I might change my mind, but just looking at the change my first impression is not positive.
1. Permanence of families.
We kind of have that right now, but it's completely independant on the rift/arc and it's a result of the recent distributon changes as you mentioned.
2. Permanent reachability of player-built areas.
We have so much less of this than before. A map that's guaranteed to be wiped 3-5 times a week has a lot less permanence than a dynamically culled map. Previously, whenever you lived in a town you didn't know what it's fate would be. Now you know for a fact that the town will be gone by the end of the week, no matter what..
3. Lots of variability in terms of which "tech era" you are born into in each life.
With the exception of the first few hours of the rift, we don't have this (and that's best part of the game in my opinion)
4. Towns close enough together to allow interaction.
We have this, but there are very few meaningful and interesting interactions that make sense outside of roleplaying.
So the Arc checks one out of four bullet points, which is a pretty sad number.
Yes, I agree that it should last more like 5-7 days. But NOT with only 2 fams left. 5-7 days with only 2 fams left would be stale.
It doesn't matter if there's 2 or 20 families, gameplay inside the Rift is going to be stale either way because those families will always be practically identical to one another. The staleness comes from the fact that, as long as the Arc has been going on for 12+ hours, you are placed in a very similar situation every time you spawn. You spawn in a big town with a lot of food and other resources, a fence surrounds the town, there's clutter everywhere, there's a lack of ropes, unfinished radio parts surround the smithy, and you get water either from a Newcomen pump or a Diesel Engine. Every single time. Having a different last name doesn't really change that experience.
What happened to the Unique Situation Generator?
~63 hours means that there will be 2-3 complete map wipes every week, which is absurdly high. The apocalypse wiping everything out just like that is such a feels bad moment, it makes me want to stop playing every time it happens to me.
Sure, pre-rift we had fewer towns survive that long, but sometimes towns survived a lot longer. Every time you spawned somewhere you worked your hardest because the livelyhood of that town depended on you. If you did well you gave it a higher chance of lasting longer, and towns that people cared about could even last for weeks, all while giving people who enjoyed the early civilizations to actually play in those as well. You never knew what kind of life you were going to get.
Now it's all kind of pointless since you know that no matter how much you try that town will be gone forever three days from now - heck, it'll probably be gone by the next time you log in tomorrow. And to make things worse, there's no more town variety across the map - unless you play really early on in the arc you will spawn in a big walled off city with plenty of resources, a newcomen pump or an engine, with a lot of clutter everywhere. It's the same freaking thing every time. I really miss having life variety. ![]()