Our accidental UBI experiment

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-03 04:39:25

sorry if this is "too political", but IMO being as this is a society simulation, this is completely on topic.

This carrot glitch provides universal basic income. There is no reason a person has to work to survive.

It confounds me that people want to just stand around the carrots, doing nothing, with no other plan.

I saw a camp die (well, ran away before it did, actually) because someone ate a carrot and the stacked carrot glitch stopped working.

This is a freaking videogame, and given the option people will just stand around clicking a carrot instead of doing any work.

it doesn't seem that anyone decided to build fancy buildings, learn new tech, or pursue any sort of creative interests.

People just stood around clicking on carrots until they died. In a videogame, they're playing for fun.

It really fundamentally undermines claims about how humans would behave with a UBI.

Why does anyone want to play this game to stand around clicking carrots? It's a mystery to me.

futurebird · 2019-03-03 04:42:59

fragilityh14 wrote:

it doesn't seem that anyone decided to build fancy buildings, learn new tech, or pursue any sort of creative interests.

False my camp had music. LOL.

futurebird · 2019-03-03 04:47:35

Though more seriously a real "experiment" would be more like you go down to one pip and just hang there with the "bong" noise all the time but not being dead.

Tarr · 2019-03-03 04:57:05

Food is the games one need in this game and as such should never ever be infinite via low effort means such as bananas or the carrot glitch. Stuff like mangoes required big investment and an actual knife to eat the things but were a food leak that if you planted enough of them you wouldn't need other food sources. However, unlike the other two issues mango trees didn't completely break the game (it did make it easier though.) The mango trees required a time investment which not every city could live to see payout and less people want to be bothered carrying a knife around to be able to eat the food they need.

Which also leads us to why people don't just drink milk in game all the time. It's not fun to drink milk. You don't get that sort of fun loop like when you're the town baker. You make everyone food and then you get to enjoy the payoff of making your pies. It's why we see stuff like why people choose to make different foods of their choice. I like to make sauerkraut but I don't enjoy the process of making pork tacos. One requires a total of 64 steps (pork tacos) and the other 61 total steps (sauerkraut) so why do I like one of the other? One has more start up cost (sauerkraut) but isn't as tedious to make (tacos). Food can have a requirement before you make it but it has to be reasonably enjoyable.

In the case of why people decide to just click carrots all day instead of working:

1) They might want a chill life. I don't know about you but having the carrot bug was a nice change of pace for someone like me. When I can just sort of click some carrots instead of worrying about food it means I can work on other stuff without worrying about food. You can even see me in twisted's new video where I show babies how to feed themselves with the bug. Sometimes it's okay for the game to be less stressful as not even I want the game to be about going 200% all the time.

2) Some roleplayers are going to sit around and not work anyways. Wouldn't you rather them get their kicks by talking and clicking some carrots instead of making the game harder on the rest of us? I see these types all the time in the nursery just sort of staring at the back of babies heads. They aren't really wanting to work so they sort of just pick up babies and set them down. I'm not sure what fun they're having but I guess to some people not interacting or just afking is fun lol.

3) Bugs are fun. I'm not sure about you but I have fun whenever a new bug is introduced to the game. This means for a short period of time the game is either completely shaken up (carrot clickers), something becomes viable (pine doors/buildings), or something terrible is happening (melting murder snowballs). Patch day is fun because something is broken we just don't know what yet.

futurebird · 2019-03-03 05:06:44

Bugs *are* fun.

I kind of regret not taking more time to talk, but I just didn't feel like using the bug, so I went on setting up camp.

Go! Bwah! · 2019-03-03 05:10:08

fragilityh14 wrote:

It really fundamentally undermines claims about how humans would behave with a UBI.

Maybe if you choose to stop your analysis before contemplating all the ways in which a video game may not be a very good proxy for real life, e.g., the fact that additional work in real life brings greater status, greater opportunities for procreation, etc. as well as the additional sense of accomplishment that a video game (marginally and generally falsely) provides.

Why does anyone want to play this game to stand around clicking carrots? It's a mystery to me.

Why would anyone want to work in a video game? It's a mystery to me.

I prefer to save my mental reserves for things that do some good, and reserve games for relaxing and replenishment.

Last edited by Go! Bwah! (2019-03-03 05:11:52)

NetherCrow · 2019-03-03 05:18:33

In fact. Most of noobs playing happily in a banana jungle. They just keep eating,chatting and bearing. It's weird.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-03 05:59:32

Go! Bwah! wrote:

fragilityh14 wrote:
It really fundamentally undermines claims about how humans would behave with a UBI.
Maybe if you choose to stop your analysis before contemplating all the ways in which a video game may not be a very good proxy for real life, e.g., the fact that additional work in real life brings greater status, greater opportunities for procreation, etc. as well as the additional sense of accomplishment that a video game (marginally and generally falsely) provides.
Why does anyone want to play this game to stand around clicking carrots? It's a mystery to me.
Why would anyone want to work in a video game? It's a mystery to me.
I prefer to save my mental reserves for things that do some good, and reserve games for relaxing and replenishment.

Firstly, this game is meant to be an unprecedented simulation of society, and it is amazing in that regard.

Secondly, diverse food and wearing clothing literally increases your procreation in this game, so just clicking carrots does lower ones fertility in game, so the idea that such a concept doesn't relate to this game is ridiculous.

also, being a productive member of society in this game brings you status. The kids respect you. the elders respect you. People see and recognize workers in this game, and give them to the people they know are good. It's why most responsible people with a knife choose an heir to the knife before death.

As to why people like grinding in games in general, I don't know. You ever made it to the top level in an MMORPG? It's a remarkably pointless exertion of effort. Even if i did ultimately sell my Dark Age of Camelot character for like $175 on ebay. [with 25 days worth of playtime lol. God i do miss that game though.]

futurebird · 2019-03-03 06:11:16

Grinding games give a little taste of the nice feeling of getting a task done.
What I like about this game are the chances to cooperate, teach and learn-- in that it's pretty unique.

Every game is a bit like some of the better minecraft servers could be when you had chill players, and people new enough to the game that it was still kinds hard. (minecraft is in some ways much to easy. You are hardly ever at risk of dying so it's just a sandbox... which could be nice)

OHOL is mean enough and hard enough that you never have that sandbox feeling unless you go to a special server.

I'm getting off topic.

Minecraft has UBI in many ways, once you set up automated farms everything in abundant and people build like crazy. So... counter point.

Trick · 2019-03-03 06:12:58

Look up the Mincome experiment that was conducted in Manitoba, Canada in the 1970s. They found that people were not less likely to reduce their productivity, and that in fact, it drastically improved their life outcomes (kids were more likely to finish high school, people who would otherwise be on welfare returned to being financially stable faster, etc.). They also believed that the financial security improved health outcomes as people were able to eat better, and generally had less stress (which is considered to be one of the number one causes/antecedents of death/morbidity).

The truth of the matter is that a basic income will eventually be necessary. The more we automate labour, and the less we need human involvement, the less we can rely on the current system. Self-driving cars, for example, will literally eliminate billions of jobs worldwide, and millions in the USA alone. You cannot have millions of people who are unemployed and expect that things can or will continue as they are.

Also, a video game where people are literally playing to waste their time is *not* a good representation of how things would play out in real life.

breezeknight · 2019-03-03 10:55:40

mobile clicker games are also popular, so ...

i even play some from time to time

i think it's about a boredom barrier, as long the boredom didn't set in you just click, apparently some players need just that & nothing else, since their boredom barrier is not reached, not filled up
yeah, something to think about ...

i still hope Jason fixes it soon, exploits like that are destructive to the basic gameplay

Peremptive · 2019-03-03 12:50:58

this was a one day bug. UBI is forever, or has to be forever to make any sense. This was more like a one day carnival/feast.

Randomname · 2019-03-03 13:07:28

I had tons of fun with the glitch, it was like a nice holiday. I even managed to raise twins out in the Savannah whilst rabbit hunting, carrot piles were the ultimate baby sitter.

Greep · 2019-03-03 14:14:57

You're reading into this more than you should OP: IRL you don't kill people who you disagree with, don't eat the same food all day, and have 1,000,000,000,000 possible activities you can do on your spare time other than what is rigidly coded.

futurebird · 2019-03-03 14:52:14

Greep it's kinda fun to read too much in to things at times. And I think "holiday" is the perfect description for the glitch. I would love to know more about how the information spread between players. Was it mostly in game? or was it through chats discord etc?

I was told about it by my mom as soon as I was born and told my twin sons, the horrible plate stacking musicians, so in a way I created the problem I suppose.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-03 16:37:12

Greep wrote:

You're reading into this more than you should OP: IRL you don't kill people who you disagree with, don't eat the same food all day, and have 1,000,000,000,000 possible activities you can do on your spare time other than what is rigidly coded.

people murder over disagreements all the time, and tons of the global poor eat the same food all the time.

Also, the point of this game is to be a social experiment about rebuilding society after an apocalypse. How people act in this game is most definitely a reflection real life personalities.

Granted, I do see the part where it was a one day bug, and people took it to be a vacation. what confounded me was 5 people standing around a single carrot pile doing nothing and getting pissed off when one kid ate a carrot. They were seriously being so useless they were standing around 2 carrots with no plan and panicked when the free food went away and got mad at the little girl for dooming them.

of course, i took off instead of seeing the end of that story.

Averest · 2019-03-03 17:21:31

I think I worked harder and was /more/ productive given I could just make a pile of carrots where I was working at the moment. I hunted rabbits, I made gaskets for newcommen engines, I farmed I did everything faster because I could run back and knew where the pile was. It was great! Sure I got chewed out by the anti exploit purists but I knew it was going to be shortlived so I took advantage of every second extra I gained.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-03 17:39:30

Averest wrote:

I think I worked harder and was /more/ productive given I could just make a pile of carrots where I was working at the moment. I hunted rabbits, I made gaskets for newcommen engines, I farmed I did everything faster because I could run back and knew where the pile was. It was great! Sure I got chewed out by the anti exploit purists but I knew it was going to be shortlived so I took advantage of every second extra I gained.

This is not what i witnessed, however, what you're describing are the stated benefits of UBI. And it is more what i would have expected- people figuring out how to make advanced tech.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-03-03 04:39:25

Our accidental UBI experiment

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Re: Our accidental UBI experiment

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#4 2019-03-03 04:57:05

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