How much do you leave town?

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-09 18:53:39

I know i've brought this up before, but i'm ceaselessly amazed at the abundance of the wilds near civs that have been there for 10 or 20 generations. Often one can walk for just a couple or few minutes and see new spawn.

it is dangerous in the wilds, and kind of repetitive, but there's also a great deal of material abundance.

Granted, the wilds are rarely truly needed once a civ is developed, and skewers to make home markers become scarce. Still, i remain incredulous at how close unlookedupon land is, especially with the social pressure about iron consumption.

I don't know that i've seen a civilization which truly had too many baskets, though since they decay and tule doesn't regrow, One should be mindful of just wasting them. But in my experience one can do quite a lot for a city making baskets and returning with them full of this or that, yet it seems to be quite an unpopular activity, besides at brand new camps.

Also, I'm still on this permanent civilization thing, so i'm often trying to start new camps, though with how the lineage ban functions, i'm beginning to feel guilty that when kids see me in the wilds starting a new camp and /die they are then not going back to the city either, but tons of babies /die on me in the city as well.

Anyway, so the real question: How much do you go into the wilds, and for which reasons?

futurebird · 2019-03-09 19:03:23

I tend to leave if I'm in the 3-5 generation of a Eve village that is struggling. I don't want to eat all of the food at base camp and it's super easy to just wander eating onions, looking for iron, bringing back baskets of bananas or wood and being super careful to eat AWAY from camp and bring back more than I eat.

The down side is the damn mosquitos.

Once a town is established I like to stay in town unless it's going south and there is a famine, then if I have a basket and sharp stone I'm good and often find clothing, carts, all kinds of loot to bring back once the baby boom, griefing murder, famine passes.

Last edited by futurebird (2019-03-09 19:05:05)

Tarr · 2019-03-09 19:17:09

You'll likely never see a permanent lineage as at the point you should walk away to expand you might as well have just spawned as an Eve. I leave the city all the time either to travel to another city, mine iron, or collect other resources. The amount of veins close to a city shows little people will end up traveling for stuff like iron. The blackbear lineage (or nana town) had two veins east of itself at 250 and 450 respectively which by horse is a real short ride. Unless you are going to make some camp 2k away from your lineages main town I wouldn't even bother with an outpost.

As you've stated you risk a lot more /die babies because of awbz mod showing the amount of fertile girls/women which isn't going to line up well with an Eve camp situation. You're also now fighting for babies with the original town + anyone else you may have moved close enough to ban children in your camp which is obviously bad. I think the only good an outpost ends up being is either a secluded work area or a place to relieve some of the stress of a whole population being in a small area.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-09 19:29:04

Well, i don't use /die so i never do spawn as an Eve.

For this exact purpose, the area ban isn't so different from the lineage ban, because i'd still be in the same lineage. And it's not that i think they need to be truly permanent lineages, I just would like to see a pattern of migration outwards from cities.

But yes, a lot of people are really hesitant to stay with a mom making a new camp if she isn't an Eve, i'm not sure why.

DestinyCall · 2019-03-09 21:53:23

fragilityh14 wrote:

I don't know that i've seen a civilization which truly had too many baskets, though since they decay and tule doesn't regrow, One should be mindful of just wasting them

I'd say a town can have too many baskets in the same way it can have too many carts or too many backpacks. All of these items will eventually decay, so if you make a bunch of them all at once, at some point in the future, they will all fall apart at the same time. You could theoretically make more backpacks, carts and baskets than your town actually needs if you mass-produced a huge amount in a single lifetime.

BUT ... from a practical standpoint, this almost never happens. As long as there is at least one person who could benefit from an extra cart or pack or basket, the extra storage and mobility is beneficial to the village. Baskets can be stacked or stowed in boxes. They reduce ground clutter and save time. And you can make more of baskets by farming wheat which is renewable. If you attach a cart to a tame horse, it lasts forever. You can stack rabbit furs on the ground indefinitely too.

Too many baskets is like too many meat pies. You WANT your village to have that kind of a problem. Just watch out ... when a village has too many backpacks and a lot of extra clothing, they usually don't have enough babies. This kind of surplus can indicate population decline.

...

As far as leaving the village, I do this pretty often in villages without adequate clothing. I'll set a homemarker, grab a berry, and head out in search of seals. If I'm very young, I might bring a bowl and fill it at a wild berry bush. This helps me travel across barren spots and through cold zones while naked. If I'm older, I will just make a basket in the wilds and use it to hold a flat rock and some food. Once I get a sealskin, I'll gather some thread, if the village is pre-sheep or go rabbit hunting or wolf hunting on my way back, if I saw that we had sheep. Then I'll head back with my basket of loot. I can usually get properly geared out before adulthood in this fashion and learn about the surrounding areas. Later in life, I can go back with a cart or horse cart to gather more supplies. If we don't have carts or horse carts, I try to fix that. Mobility and storage is a huge advantage. I can get a lot done with one cart.

Just as too much clothing is a sign of population decline, too little clothing in the village usually means significant population growth and can be an early warning sign for famine. Naked people eat a LOT more food than clothed people. Working to improve the food production chain and increase access to clothing can help avoid disaster.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-03-09 21:59:44)

Tarr · 2019-03-09 21:59:08

DestinyCall wrote:

fragilityh14 wrote:
I don't know that i've seen a civilization which truly had too many baskets, though since they decay and tule doesn't regrow, One should be mindful of just wasting them
I'd say a town can have too many baskets in the same way it can have too many carts or too many backpacks. All of these items will eventually decay, so if you make a bunch of them all at once, at some point in the future, they will all fall apart at the same time. You could theoretically make more backpacks, carts and baskets than your town actually needs if you mass-produced a huge amount in a single lifetime.

I mean baskets and carts can be prevented from truly decaying into nothingness. Baskets require you to stack and unstack them once every ten hours and carts require wheels every sixteen hours (decay time for wheeled cart is ten hours, regular handcart is six hours.) Clothing obviously can't be saved so that requires constant replacement.

So if you care and love your baskets+carts you can't really have too many but it requires you to do maintenance on them.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-09 23:06:26

i assume the basket stacking/unstacking resetting the decay timer is an exploit, not intentional, right? That's good to know though.

breezeknight · 2019-03-10 00:37:03

i have first to see a "developed civ" which is not in need of something

& i have first to see a town with too many baskets, too many carts

where i spawn there is at best enough baskets, mostly not enough at all
carts are rare, very rare, because of the cumbersome milkweed
not enough bowls & plates
not enough kindling
not enough round & sharp stones
not enough flint chips
not enough needles
the list goes on

in most cases i see clothing is also a problem, the last couple of runs, i was hunting rabbits

so yes, i prefer to go into the wild

i would love to live a nomand life, waiting for the tools that would allow it

- - -

Peremptive · 2019-03-10 03:03:50

no mod means often a very easy death in the wilds, especially in swamp/badlands/desert. If you don't have clothes and a backpack particularly.

DestinyCall · 2019-03-10 03:26:46

breezeknight wrote:

i would love to live a nomand life, waiting for the tools that would allow it

What is currently preventing you from following a nomadic lifestyle? If you leave the village with a bone needle, you are pretty much set for life as a wanderer.

I've also played as a nomadic Eve before. A pair of my kids managed to survive to 60 and one of the third generation did too, but the line died out early from a lack of adult females. Nomad life isn't easy on children.

You need fire to get the bone needle, but other than that, you can do almost everything you need to survive without having a real camp. Just can't stay in the same spot too long or you run out of food really quick.

And some activities, like snake-hunting, are hard-locked by iron requirements.

Spoonwood · 2019-03-10 04:13:18

Saplings can get grown by using a flint chip on them to get their seed and then planing and watering them. After they grow, domestic saplings can get cut with a sharp stone, giving one a weak skewer which can then become a homemarker.

Also, baskets can get made from wheat by making it into straw first. Wheat can always get regrown.

When I did Eve runs on the main servers I would always try to make each of my children a basket. After a while, I changed that a bit though. My later Eve runs on the main servers involved leaving my first basket at camp, getting three adobe while also making a second basket, then getting one more adobe and two clay while making another basket, and maybe getting more clay and a fourth or even a fifth basket. That happened before the temperature overhaul, but I think if you can get a fire going, then the Eve can still do the same sort of thing, many, if not all, of the Eve's children can have baskets by the time they get to 3, and things get set up also.

I built around a 1000 tile road (I think so... the other town wasn't quite 1.0 k from me, but I think it was close) lately. It happened over the course of several lifetimes on a low populated server. So, I guess the answer comes as quite a bit.

Psykout · 2019-03-10 08:47:34

I could totally see a nomad lineage making it. You gear up backpacks on people and carry bunch of rope. When you come upon a settlement give them iron and use their tools and cart up like 8 carts using all your rope, eventually get some horses going. Kill wild mouflon as you go and collect mutton and wild wheat, ovens are two adobe so easy to do a pit stop every 20-30 min and bake up a few carts of pies and keep going. People mostly would just eat on the go, if you are crossing enough ground living off burdock, carrots, berries, bananas and onions isn't far fetched even for a group of 20 people. The thing is though, all you are doing is surviving at the point. I can see the appeal of seeing how far a lineage like that could go (caravan leader succession would be big role) or the appeal of just doing something new. I personally would think it would be really cool to give it a shot, but it would take some coordination to get going, but once systems are in place public spawns could fall into the grooves and keep it turning for awhile. Being able to carry as much with you as possible is huge, so would need carts and horse carts fast.

breezeknight · 2019-03-10 09:09:43

DestinyCall wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
i would love to live a nomand life, waiting for the tools that would allow it
What is currently preventing you from following a nomadic lifestyle? If you leave the village with a bone needle, you are pretty much set for life as a wanderer.
I've also played as a nomadic Eve before. A pair of my kids managed to survive to 60 and one of the third generation did too, but the line died out early from a lack of adult females. Nomad life isn't easy on children.
You need fire to get the bone needle, but other than that, you can do almost everything you need to survive without having a real camp. Just can't stay in the same spot too long or you run out of food really quick.
And some activities, like snake-hunting, are hard-locked by iron requirements.

the tedium & boredom because the tools are extremely limited ?

just look like actual nomads live IRL then you know the difference

that's why i suggested a stone knife & a stone axe
this would enable the basics for a life, which would be not primarily settled
that's how humans lived in history

then how about the ominous baby sling ?
or what's with a tent ?
carts that can be constructed without the need for steel ?

the current OHOL tech tree is organized around a settled lifestyle

- - -

pein · 2019-03-10 10:25:20

lineage ban was better
i can map out where other families are, even know who they are
my luckiest find was 200 tile away, and i made that route several times
but its no point mixing families now, wont give more babies

im 90% not extending the main area
if something is badly placed, like an oven or kiln, is better to make new (not a fan of destroying previous as same thing will happen, also destroying kiln is 33% return on resources). if they made the kiln and their kids made farm around it, still useful to make charcoal for the newcommen well. or maybe plate making.

generally forging near the kiln where all babies are, is more time loss than making new kiln and having only stuff needed there
kindling, iron, stone, branches, etc.

if any city is over 15 pop, i will move to a side and make new district, i interact with the smarter people only. the distance of 50 tiles makes it possible to find you if they decent but blocks most of noobs who are afraid to go out, ii can make a better center than others back home
for example in sancal we had that jungle farm, kind of 30 tiles west from original camp
mostly did this with jungles, cause temperature was something worth moving for

now the best you can go for is like rabbits? water and soil
but you can plant trees and make anything viable with engines on wells and cisterns, composting

i hate huge cities where people repopulate a decayed town but too dumb to make it run properly or at least clean it up
so if i don't suicide i make new and borrow tools/ make new one from iron/ take duplicates
im not stealing the only fire tools or the only shovel so they can coexist
as a mother i had succes with this, having 3 decent kids, and they seen the big city and still choose to stay with me on camp
ironically a chick killed my second girl and got killed, and my first girl went old
big city was a big drama magnet and that's why i moved out and they still fucked it up for all of us

generally im the one who fixes griefer damage, or gets the city to a new level (sheep, mutton pies, carts and horses, fences, cisterns, rubber)
and i often gather ropes rather than farm it
helps with exploration too

now area ban means that you arent an outpost if you arent 2000 away (would be quite funny being at exact 2000 and girls fall pregnant going further, but not when going closer)

its essential to have new camp for each 15-20 people, its just so annoying having 90 people same place

futurebird · 2019-03-10 10:55:48

Psykout wrote:

I could totally see a nomad lineage making it. You gear up backpacks on people and carry bunch of rope. When you come upon a settlement give them iron and use their tools and cart up like 8 carts using all your rope, eventually get some horses going. Kill wild mouflon as you go and collect mutton and wild wheat, ovens are two adobe so easy to do a pit stop every 20-30 min and bake up a few carts of pies and keep going. People mostly would just eat on the go, if you are crossing enough ground living off burdock, carrots, berries, bananas and onions isn't far fetched even for a group of 20 people. The thing is though, all you are doing is surviving at the point. I can see the appeal of seeing how far a lineage like that could go (caravan leader succession would be big role) or the appeal of just doing something new. I personally would think it would be really cool to give it a shot, but it would take some coordination to get going, but once systems are in place public spawns could fall into the grooves and keep it turning for awhile. Being able to carry as much with you as possible is huge, so would need carts and horse carts fast.

This kind of makes me want to be on a server where that was the "culture" anyway next time I'm in a near dead town and female Ima try this.

breezeknight · 2019-03-10 12:07:28

as long there is no baby sling the nomad life is a huge chore, impossible
everbody telling something else is lying
i've been to some attempts & that was before the temp update & they all failed than one
one time it was successful & that was not even a real nomad life but only a mother skilled enough to keep her kids alive while she was hunting, i was one of her kids
all other attempts were die outs, lost among trees, killed by boars, wolves, bugs or just starved to death

it's probably somewhat easier with the zoom mod but i refuse to go easy on a game, i prefer to play vanilla to see all the problems without skewing googles
if the game is not fun & fascinating enough in vanilla, then it's just not good enough & needs more options
additionally you cannot control if the people you're playing with are using the zoom mod, so ...

- - -

DestinyCall · 2019-03-10 16:26:49

I would love to see a hide tent and baby sling added to the game. Being able to live as horse riding nomads would be really fun. But currently, taming horses requires access to iron and there is no portabls shelter (except for doors, which also require iron).

Currently, you can survive as a lone wanderer quite easily, but to live as a traveling family unit is quite hard. I've travelled toward bell towns with other people several times. It was interesting, but chaotic. Usually ended in tragedy, since people would get separated and you can only carry one kid at a time. I've also managed to successfully move an eve camp to a better location in the second generation. The original spot had no access to water and I discussed the problem with my infant daughter, then we motivated the rest of the family to pack up and go when she was old enough to carry a basket. Fortunately we located a much better spot after a short search.

As a nomadic eve, you are limited by the lack of tools and need to hold your babies to keep them alive without a fire. I tried this style of eveing as a personal challenge to see if I could keep all my kids alive at least long enough to grow hair. After that, it was up to them to figure out the rest. But the goal wasn't to create a nomadic lineage. I would find decent camp locations for each kid or set of kids, then move on without them when more babies came. I could not have kept a pack of eight kids alive, all traveling together. We would descend on a region like locusts and pick the bushes clean. Maybe living in a banana grove, but it wouldn't be sustainable while traveling.

If I was trying to encourage a true nomadic lineage, I would have to stick to keeping a very limited number of children. One girl and one boy. Replace them only if they die. One could follow, while I held the other one. We would need to fast-track clothing and backpacks. No pottery. No iron. Fire tools and snare, then bone needle. Eat wild carrots, hunt seals and rabbits. Bake pies in the prairie, then leave the oven. Everyone carries baskets. A bow to hunt wolves for hats, then leave it behind.

Fully geared, survive would not be too hard for experienced players, but what would be the goal? We would need a destination, like bell tower, to give purpose to our movement. Otherwise, we would eventually stop and settle.

breezeknight · 2019-03-10 16:40:54

i played for some time the game The Trail
in the beginning it's lot of fun if you're into traveling around, crafting, trading & skilling up
it's nearly a nomad's life & there is some multiplayer in it
but then the next thing is to settle in town, the things crumbled from there for that game
it was neither fun nor made it any sense anymore
but the worst part was, i was unable to go back to the traveling mode, the game is as well designed with the goal to settle for good

but i prefer to travel, to wander around
if OHOL ever gets to a state with trade, music & painting, then i will be a traveling trader playing an instrument & painting on the go
that will be my finest sort of life

DestinyCall wrote:

...
Fully geared, survive would not be too hard for experienced players, but what would be the goal? We would need a destination, like bell tower, to give purpose to our movement. Otherwise, we would eventually stop and settle.

the goal could be to trade, to be a flying trader, wandering between different settlements, trading different goods
& to entertain oc, as IRL

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-03-10 16:45:03)

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-11 04:40:51

I want long term hunting-gathering to be more fun and viable as well. A big thing is, if you keep moving, it's easy to find enough food, and there isn't much of a challenge. Like just hanging out in a green biome then moving to the next isn't fun. I do think some changes could be made to make nomad culture more viable, esp being able to cut burdock in three and plant with skewer but takes one epoch to mature. (but no water or placed soil)

In theory, i like the idea of it taking longer to form a permanent camp, like say it's the gen 3 kids who start being sedentary, but there are at least two major problems with that, on top of lack of babywearing

1) Player base will revolt if tech to start agriculture becomes more complicated
2) The map is so vast that if a male child is lost at all his life is basically pointless.

Still, i like the premise that Eve is feral and running around and its her kids who actually start camps. But in my experience kids won't stay with you unless you have a camp or are obviously starting one.

breezeknight · 2019-03-11 09:21:45

fragilityh14 wrote:

...
2) The map is so vast that if a male child is lost at all his life is basically pointless.
...

if a male kid is lost then
either the player behind has lots to learn & should utilize that moment to train his lone survival skills
or the place for the base is extremely badly chosen by Eve,
like
been yesterday to such, no food in near proximity, i, a male kid gave up in my thirties because it didn't look like it had any future, should have probably already earlier, as teenager, as i realised that there is no future with this settlement, all female kids died for that reason as well

the map generation had to be improved

the map generation is too random, vast parts are uninhabitable for an Eve, less experienced players are in many areas absolutely not able to found a successful settlement because the areas are just too bad to live there as beginner
i myself don't like to be an Eve at all, it's boring because of all the kids one has to take care of & is extremely hard because of the bad RNG map, especially ruinous if the kids are not hard tested players & an Eve's camp is dependend on skilled male kids

& in general
if a kid is lost in the map, then the player has forgotten rule number 1 - set the home marker !

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-03-11 09:23:33)

mensrea · 2019-03-15 00:52:52

I usually like to leave camp once per life, and more if a project requires. I like to pick a project for my life that adds something the town is missing which gives me an opportunity to leave camp. I usually leave camp at an opportune time in my yum chain. I usually like to get a small bonus to give me a bit more roaming opportunity to find wild foods. Once I have partaken in a good sampling of wild foods or my project is ready, then I go back to camp. At that point I may try to complete a special food for my next yum, or work on projects.

There have been times where I've managed to sit at the smith/nursery area my whole life. At the end of it I feel like I may have missed out.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-03-09 18:53:39

How much do you leave town?

#2 2019-03-09 19:03:23

Re: How much do you leave town?

#3 2019-03-09 19:17:09

Re: How much do you leave town?

#4 2019-03-09 19:29:04

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#5 2019-03-09 21:53:23

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#6 2019-03-09 21:59:08

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#7 2019-03-09 23:06:26

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#8 2019-03-10 00:37:03

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#9 2019-03-10 03:03:50

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#10 2019-03-10 03:26:46

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#11 2019-03-10 04:13:18

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#12 2019-03-10 08:47:34

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#13 2019-03-10 09:09:43

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#14 2019-03-10 10:25:20

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#15 2019-03-10 10:55:48

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#16 2019-03-10 12:07:28

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#17 2019-03-10 16:26:49

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#18 2019-03-10 16:40:54

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#19 2019-03-11 04:40:51

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#20 2019-03-11 09:21:45

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#21 2019-03-15 00:52:52

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