Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

sigmen4020 · 2019-10-18 18:13:36

If you want to change it so springs disappear after a shallow well is made at the very least make the earlier water tech last longer. Currently early water tech (shallow sand deep well) will probably be dry by gen 5. Jason, you say that the end game being boring is a problem, but then you keep making changes that makes us rush to that late game even earlier. So my suggestion is to make shallow and deep wells contain more water.

Also as an unrelated side point. Getting oil and diesel when your town has an exhausted well is now gonna be even more of a pain, since there will now be basically no water nearby. So as you may guess it is now even more ideal to rush the tech tree as fast as possible, because you don’t ever want to be sitting with an exhausted well with no solution handy. Getting oil and diesel requires loads of water.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-10-18 18:14:54)

DestinyCall · 2019-10-18 18:26:43

I'm just going to leave this here and walk away:

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8079

Spoonwood · 2019-10-18 18:30:25

Getting oil and diesel does require loads of water. I thought he recently buffed pumps? That said, I don't know how great of a change that was. And I doubt that the early game will be anything but fast paced.

DestinyCall · 2019-10-18 18:53:38

The change to the pump was overdue. Previously, there was a 1 in 20 chance that it would exhaust after the very first use. High variance made the pump extremely unreliable and unlikely to provide stable water, even in the short term.

I haven't messed around with water tanks yet, but they add some interesting options for tackling mid-game water shortfalls. I suspect that even when Jason nerfs springs so they "tap out" nearby water sources, it will be smart to haul water using carts and tanks, rather than trying to upgrade to diesel. The iron is better used to make the mining pick and surplus tools (shovel/shears/axe/etc).

It doesn't matter if we have excess water if we have no tools to work the fields or shear our sheep or chop trees.

sigmen4020 · 2019-10-18 19:09:07

Spoonwood wrote:

Getting oil and diesel does require loads of water. I thought he recently buffed pumps? That said, I don't know how great of a change that was. And I doubt that the early game will be anything but fast paced.

The pump change was definitely a change in the right direction. There’s a reason didn’t mention water pumps in this post. The process of getting oil and diesel hasn’t changed though, which requires quite a bit of water depending on your oil luck. If springs around your well disappear you don’t really want to be sitting with an exhausted well off guard, since there’s gonna be next to no other water around your town.

pein · 2019-10-18 22:48:10

I mean the water is kinda fine, it's more like your population is too dumb or slow

we been over this

it's not hard to make the first well, what are you really doing early game? i just got the old school crazy rush at day one of arc, and felt so nice
lot of people died but we managed to make the city, i seen tarr around, i got clothes at birth, i got one of the packs later, i made a horse cart in 41 min with a pen made of trees, fences and stone blocks

5x3 without property fences

i was helping on axe making, i hammered the first shovel, i made the shears and the first sledge, cart, spindle, yarn with tread, second knife and second well

you need to keep a few babies until you got a carrot farm, then focus on branches and clay, stones. you might as well make a few wells not just one
upgrading isn't hard either, like lot of good smiths now, 9-10 iron and you got the set of tools, generally shovel breaks first, maybe a hoe
but you can still use skewers early
same goes for pseudo eves and new locations

next day i was scouting the map for new oil, i found a spot mid north, kinda 200 to corner, then a kiln with some iron.
pond water was more than enough, i didn't even made a well for a while. i was alone for 2.5 hours setting up the boards and pen. then a family moved in and more like the laziness was the problem

i seen people telling stuff like "there is other town" and even trying to take people to other places
always the same story.
there was some idiot griefer who tried to kill the progress, and some racist ahole who stabbed a wolver lady and her son
they were destroying the kilns then upgrading ovens over and over

so i came back after the crisis, pies hidden behind trees and people starving
but actually there were plenty of eggs i picked off and plenty of branches for kindling so all they had to do is a new fire and gather the eggs and plates

the well provided like 2 full cisterns of water, then when people seen the town has a decent shape, they started working harder
i left the upgrades for the well and had 2 other buckets too. a guy planted tons of bushes and we still had water left.
The ponds weren't used up for a whole day after, the top ones were still there, some people making stew farm near it.

so it was even too early for them moving in, i would have preferred they come later, but we managed to work, only had to dig out a few bushes to keep the roads normal
made most of stuff for the city and left the obvious things to others

cant really say that we had water issues, was enough for pies and the omelettes were good backup

and the real reason i started a town there just shined trough today, people went to oil spot and this town has most kerosene now

for the springs tapping out other springs i think they would be rather replaced with other resources
there arent enough flat rocks, and there arent enough other resources which can be considered luxury or non-essential.
It wont really increase survival chances directly to have more building material
So instead of water springs we could have clay, flat rock, round rock deposits which should be gathered out there in spot.

Last edited by pein (2019-10-18 22:48:39)

Saolin · 2019-10-19 00:40:08

pein wrote:

for the springs tapping out other springs i think they would be rather replaced with other resources
there arent enough flat rocks, and there arent enough other resources which can be considered luxury or non-essential.
It wont really increase survival chances directly to have more building material
So instead of water springs we could have clay, flat rock, round rock deposits which should be gathered out there in spot.

I like how you needlessly and extensively started with your own version of "flexing" as you like to call it; to make this suggestion.

You set a high bar though, which is good.

And it is a good suggestion. If this well situation comes to pass it makes sense that the land enabling the well site would have something special about it. If the well is tapping adjacent wells dry, then why wouldn't you be able to tap a well site anywhere between the two? Because the potential well site has something special about, that's why.

DestinyCall · 2019-10-19 00:54:24

Yeah, I'd like to see rock quarries or other deposits added to the game. Concentrated spots that can be worked if you want or need a particular resource.

They could occur on well sites or just appear at random in certain biomes. Either way, I would be a positive change and encourage construction.

Booklat1 · 2019-10-19 01:12:41

if wells get buffed (maybe they should be) we'll definitely need springs to be rarer.

Otherwise oil will never run out

DestinyCall · 2019-10-19 01:32:23

You know, Jason could just save time and removal all tarry spots.

Then he could see what the Rift would be like after we run out of oil without going to all this extra effort.

Booklat1 · 2019-10-19 01:39:14

but that's by no means the same thing is it? Im sure you know that too Destiny

Sure, we get to see what happens without oil but that is obvious and not the data we want to obtain from the rift experiment

ideally the rift would inform us how long until we get to oil, how long till it's depleted and then, tell us what happens when it runs out, all at the same iteration of the game.

As I see it, running out of oil should be like any other stage of the game, a designed adversity so that we can progress into the next technology/social step that allows us to keep thriving.

But honestly, why the fuck is the apoc working in the middle of an oil abundance experiment?

DestinyCall · 2019-10-19 03:03:22

Yeah, I do know it is different. I'm just super frustrated with this whole "experiment" and will be much happier when it is over, for better or worse. It doesn't seem to be leading anywhere good and is taking way too long to play itself out.

Oil is currently the "end of the line". Even if something else gets added later, that doesn't mean much right now. Once oil is gone, there is nowhere else to go. No further point to reach or goal to strive toward at this time. So having the current goal of the rift experiment be simply to see what happens when oil runs out feels both nihilistic and absurd to me.

No oil = no iron = no work.

I do not consider this a worthy goal or a healthy purpose for this game to develop around. To be clear, I'm perfectly happy to deal with scarcity and decay. It gives me work and purpose and a reason to play another life. It gives me new things to do each life and many ways to stay productive. But I am NOT pleased when I am faced with absolute scarcity and NO valid option to address it.

Lack of wild saplings is a perfect example of this. If I need to stir a bucket of latex to make rubber, I consider it SUPER dumb that I can't find a single skewer within ten miles of my town. That is scarcity done wrong. I'm not okay with it.

....

Even beyond the issue of scarcity vs utility, the reality is that the amount of oil on the map doesn't even matter to a huge percentage of the player base. Because most players have exactly ZERO involvement in oil tech. None. Remove every tarry spot on the map and how I play won't change in the slightest. Why would it? I never get oil. I barely even touch cans of kerosene. I leave it to other people to figure out and just hope somebody else knows what they are doing because I am happy to stay out of the diesel game. So if all the oil was gone, I can expect that I will feel the lack of iron and water, but the lack of oil won't touch me. I just don't care about oil or oil scarcity. It is too far above my pay grade ... and I'm an experienced player.

I care about being able to help my family and feed my children. I care about being able to grow my village. I care about being able to find meaningful work and a reason to keep playing. If the game doesn't give me the ability to actually play it ... it ceases to be a functional game. Right now, OHOL feels barely functional to me.

If Jason wants to test out what it is like to play a completely broken game, I'd rather he just rip the bandaid off quickly, so we can forge a new meta from the ashes of the old world. Stop messing around and just get it done. Remove the safety net and let us fall.

He will either learn something incredibly useful or kill everyone in the process. Or both! Or neither ... who the hell knows at this point?

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-10-18 18:13:36

Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#2 2019-10-18 18:26:43

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#3 2019-10-18 18:30:25

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#4 2019-10-18 18:53:38

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#5 2019-10-18 19:09:07

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#6 2019-10-18 22:48:10

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#7 2019-10-19 00:40:08

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#8 2019-10-19 00:54:24

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#9 2019-10-19 01:12:41

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#10 2019-10-19 01:32:23

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#11 2019-10-19 01:39:14

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

#12 2019-10-19 03:03:22

Re: Shallow and deep wells should last longer.

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